|
Horizon Burning posted:extremely vapid take No more than hers
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 09:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 09:50 |
|
|
Stuporstar posted:This is wise I follow Kuang on twitter and after the third book (which I haven't had time to read yet) there were a ton of retweets from everyone traumatized by reading it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 09:51
|
|
|
Stuporstar posted:I’ve only read The Lady Astronaut and I’m still on the fence about getting the rest so I’m reading them from the library instead. Again, probably only worth it if you’re completing the series The Relentless Moon is the best of the series so far. If you've only read the first book, the second escalates beautifully and does so much more cool space stuff. Then the third comes along, changes POV characters, and gets really intense. It gets better as it goes along, so if you liked the first book, the second and third should really work for you.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 10:38
|
|
|
General Battuta posted:I learned a lot of good prose skills from fanfiction. Grr! Centrist! Hey everybody - this guy hates the poor!! Actually I'll just harp on a point someone made last page - that it's hard to find good fanfic even when you have a list of good recommendations of the correct character pairing. I remember being younger, reading books and it was an amazing voyage of discovery, and you didn't know who would fall in love with who or what would happen. Then it feels like we all consumed so much fiction that it's easier and easier to guess, and I wish I could go back to not knowing. And now, finally, there's no surprise at all. It just gets written up front on the fanfic search tool - Joe x Bill, friends to lovers. No surprise, no craft, it's just fuckin pick n mix. And as got pointed out, now it even seeps into mainstream marketing - Gideon being explicitly marketed as enemies to lovers, which I would be furious to have read beforehand even though it's fairly predictable I want to be told a story, not decide the story I want to read and have it delivered to me. Strategic Tea fucked around with this message at 11:59 on Jan 18, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 11:47
|
|
|
fanfiction is largely awful and it owns and I would much rather live in a world with it than without it
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 11:53
|
|
|
Marshal Radisic posted:It's a lot easier to see the connection if you look at his historical fiction. I'd personally recommend The Walled Orchard duology (Goatsong, The Walled Orchard). They're the memoirs of an Athenian comic playwright that focus on his experiences in the Peloponnesian War and the collapse of Athens. There's less in the way of violence than in the books he wrote under the Parker name (well, save for the depiction of the Syracuse campaign in the second book), but that rueful humor in the face of human folly is still there. I've actually added the Walled Orchard to my to-read list based on (I think) your recommendation to somebody earlier in this thread. Otherwise I'd have ignored it because the Tom Holt books I've read were not very good. Annoyingly, I promised my partner I wouldn't be buying new books this year, so I doubt I'll be reading it before next Jan. Doesn't seem to be available on the library network either.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 12:08
|
|
|
Strategic Tea posted:And as got pointed out, now it even seeps into mainstream marketing - Gideon being explicitly marketed as enemies to lovers, which I would be furious to have read beforehand even though it's fairly predictable I never thought they were enemies at any point at all, they acted more like sisters. When did the second bit happen?
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 12:27
|
|
|
TheAardvark posted:Are there any other books or series with habitats similar to the Orbitals from The Culture? I like the idea of massive million km stations, and loved the one book where the girl was designing continents for fun on one. Loads from ringworld and it's fanfic twin strata (Niven and Terry Pratchett respectively ) One of many all time favourite books happens to be about stuff in space habitats Schizmatrix Plus by Bruce sterling. Look out for the phrases Dyson Sphere, Ringworld or big dumb object and here's a little bit from Tor https://www.tor.com/2020/07/03/a-brief-history-of-the-megastructure-in-science-fiction/comment-page-1/
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 13:30
|
|
|
Strategic Tea posted:And as got pointed out, now it even seeps into mainstream marketing - Gideon being explicitly marketed as enemies to lovers, which I would be furious to have read beforehand even though it's fairly predictable I've seen people (is it actually somewhere in the official marketing? because lol if so) call Gideon that which I always thought was extremely bizarre. I never found the relationship development between Harrow and Gideon to be romantic really at all. Maybe you could make that argument for a totally different set of characters in Harrow the Ninth but even that seems a bit iffy to me given what you learn about Harrow's whole deal in that one. I dunno, maybe once Alecto comes out it'll prove my assumptions wrong and it was actually an extremely slow burn enemies-to-lovers the whole time (I doubt it though).
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 14:00
|
|
|
A Proper Uppercut posted:So I'm like halfway through Kings of the Wyld, and I maye just have to stop, which I almost never do. I am listening on audiobook so I guess that might color my opinion of it. Quoting myself here because I forgot to mention, there is a "the cake is a lie" joke. In a novel released in 2017. The more I think about this stupid book the more frustrated I get.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 15:06
|
|
|
Interweb jokes, in my fantasy novel? Get out.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 15:11
|
|
|
9harrow spoilers: “It is a drawing of the letter S,” said the deep, solemn voice from over her shoulder, and she realized she had stopped midstride. “The letter in question is constructed from six short marks stacked vertically three by three. There are two triangles on the top and bottom, which, along with some diagonal strokes, form a calligraphic S.”
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 15:16
|
|
|
I'm probably fumbling my fanfic tags there. Honestly everyone is so unhinged and obsessed with death, even the explicitly romantic narration in Harrow immediately detours into anatomical skeleton analysis. The beautiful skeleton's weird flesh suit is basically an afterthought 
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 15:41
|
|
|
I didn't mind the silly internet jokes in Gideon/Harrow. Sure it has stupid meme references (many of which I'm sure I missed), but it also references molesworth out of nowhere that made me giggle.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 15:48
|
|
|
Commander Wake me up inside
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 15:59
|
|
|
mllaneza posted:The Relentless Moon is the best of the series so far. If you've only read the first book, the second escalates beautifully and does so much more cool space stuff. Then the third comes along, changes POV characters, and gets really intense. It gets better as it goes along, so if you liked the first book, the second and third should really work for you. Thanks! I’ll get to read them both in less than a month according to my hold list. Now I’m even more looking forward to it
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 16:48
|
|
|
Stuporstar posted:
Read this in November, and liked it. It's short. An old woman tells of her time as a serving girl to the titular empress. It's a series of stories from her life, with interludes hinting to the historian recording it that more was going on. Primarily, it's about a backwoods princess trying to seize some agency in a very unfriendly kingdom. Also women's stories and relationships. It's good. There are some emotional moments, sure, at least one depressing bit, but it's not grimdark. I'd say it's very well told story, and I'm looking forward to reading whatever Vo write next.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 17:01
|
|
|
Strategic Tea posted:
I'm most of the way through Harrow right now and I don't think there's romance between the two. Gideon says Harrow was always in love with the corpse in the locked tomb. The only marketing I saw was just "lesbian necromancers in space".
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 17:26
|
|
|
branedotorg posted:Loads from ringworld and it's fanfic twin strata (Niven and Terry Pratchett respectively ) I like that Nicoll mentioned The World Is Round, which is mostly forgotten these days. It's not a great book by any means but it's a solid entry in the Big Dumb Object canon with some interesting twists.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 17:51
|
|
|
Ben Nevis posted:Read this in November, and liked it. It's short. An old woman tells of her time as a serving girl to the titular empress. It's a series of stories from her life, with interludes hinting to the historian recording it that more was going on. Primarily, it's about a backwoods princess trying to seize some agency in a very unfriendly kingdom. Also women's stories and relationships. It's good. There are some emotional moments, sure, at least one depressing bit, but it's not grimdark. I'd say it's very well told story, and I'm looking forward to reading whatever Vo write next. That sounds way more interesting than the way it was pitched. Guess I’ll put that on my hold list too. Thanks!
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 18:00
|
|
|
Ccs posted:I'm most of the way through Harrow right now and I don't think there's romance between the two. Gideon says Harrow was always in love with the corpse in the locked tomb. The only marketing I saw was just "lesbian necromancers in space". I don't have a horse in this race but fandom has created ships based on much, much less. I don't blame marketing for running with it to get more eyes on the books.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 18:48
|
|
|
Ccs posted:I'm most of the way through Harrow right now and I don't think there's romance between the two. Gideon says Harrow was always in love with the corpse in the locked tomb. The only marketing I saw was just "lesbian necromancers in space". I was kind of the opposite in that I thought the Body was Gideon's undigested soul still knockng around, and that since she is lobotomised Harrow is censoring her own visions. I got this from her 'I am insane' line in the alternative Canaan, which is introduced in the same breath as the spooky notes. I thought the implication was that both the notes and the insanity were Harrow's lobotomy-edit and not her real memories. Also, doesn't the Body have brilliant yellow eyes at one point? Although ohhh those were God's too 
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 18:52
|
|
|
Hobnob posted:I didn't mind the silly internet jokes in Gideon/Harrow. Sure it has stupid meme references (many of which I'm sure I missed), but it also references molesworth out of nowhere that made me giggle. There's a no-bullshit Homestar Runner joke at one point. The Emperor and his cronies are clearly a bunch of nerds from around our time.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 18:54
|
|
|
fritz posted:I remember this drama from the time, and also how many years later the fan MZB was talking about came forward and made a very plausible claim that the true story was MZB was trying to rip her off instead. On investigation the best I can summarize is : "it's complicated". The Darkover community was large and MZB had an entire apparatus of helpers and assistants. Fanlore says: fanlore posted:https://fanlore.org/wiki/Marion_Zimmer_Bradley_Fanfiction_Controversy#Lasting_Consequences:_MZB_Fanfiction_Today Just on general principles I'm more inclined to believe Jean Lamb's (the fanfic person) side of things, a lot of the things MZB's side were saying didn't quite add up. But on specific principles, considering the kind of person MZB was, I'm 100% sure she was in the wrong.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 19:26
|
|
|
I'm surprised their publishers didn't step in and nip that in the bud before it got that far.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 19:29
|
|
|
Strategic Tea posted:I was kind of the opposite in that I thought the Body was Gideon's undigested soul still knockng around, and that since she is lobotomised Harrow is censoring her own visions. I thought that too at the start but at some point the contradictions kept adding up and I figured there was no way it could have been Gideon, but didn't know who it was until later Gotta re-read these at some point, don't know if I can wait until just before Alecto 9th.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 19:31
|
|
|
Groke posted:There's a no-bullshit Homestar Runner joke at one point. Oh, yeah, God is very clearly a Millennial.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 20:03
|
|
|
fritz posted:I thought that too at the start but at some point the contradictions kept adding up and I figured there was no way it could have been Gideon, but didn't know who it was until later I heartily recommend the Audiobook read by Moira Quirk. Collateral fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Jan 18, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 20:06
|
|
|
branedotorg posted:Loads from ringworld and it's fanfic twin strata (Niven and Terry Pratchett respectively ) I'll take a look at Schizmatrix Plus, thanks! I'm reading Rendezvous with Rama right now, and I've read a lot of other Big Dumb Object stories, but not a lot of Big Smart Object We Built And Are Living On stories.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 20:16
|
|
|
for a megastructure book i would recommend a Alastair Reynolds book but telling the title is kind of a spoiler since it isn't immediately obvious that's what the book is about. ...Pushing Ice...
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 20:26
|
|
|
fritz posted:On investigation the best I can summarize is : "it's complicated". The Darkover community was large and MZB had an entire apparatus of helpers and assistants. muscles like this! posted:I'm surprised their publishers didn't step in and nip that in the bud before it got that far. Since 1985 in the SFL Archives, almost every mention of MZB has been about her extremely controlling behavior, especially at public events. Once the SFWA White Knight chimed in to take the side of MZB, I knew that MZB's version of how things went down was 130% in the wrong. Here is the initial post from SFL Archives Vol 18a that kicked off the 1993 debate about fan-fiction & original author rights. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Jan 93 07:10:17 GMT From: ctk@well.sf.ca.us (Cassandra T. Kamuchey) Reply-to: sf-lovers-misc@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Fan Fiction--Copyright Infringement? (LONG) EXTREMELY LONG POST ALERT! [As many of you are certainly aware, the area of fan fiction (or fanfic) has always been legally questionable in the copyright realm. Most of us, at one point in our lives, have written terrible short stories involving Capt. Kirk or our favorite novel hero (or heroine). In fact, Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry often credited fanfic writers with sustaining the popularity of the series during the ten-year hiatus of the 1970s. Today, Usenet continues to assist fanfic writers in sharing and disseminating their work. Recently, Mercedes Lackey, along with other science fiction authors, took steps to protect her copyright interests by focusing on fan generated fiction. The following was published in Lackey's official fanzine, "Queen's Own" ("QO"), written by Lackey and her husband and has been reprinted with the author's permission. I have copied the text as exactly as possible, including the capitalizations that appear; I am, however, not professing to be a perfect (or even adequate) typist. Also, I have omitted some of the more repetitive text as it is over two pages long (as I warned you, this is a long post). I have posted this because I would like to hear the general consensus on fanfic/licensing rights, etc.] Mercedes Lackey writes: "First of all, you may not be aware of it, but I am rare in permitting people to write fanfic based on my work. Many authors and agents feel it confuses copyrights enough that they do not permit it at all. [&]... "Having established that I am a Good Guy for letting you play in my sandbox, following the footsteps of my mentor Marion Zimmer Bradley, let me continue. Some folks have been horribly incensed because I asked, politely, that you not post Valdemar fanfic over in Prodigy, because that service lists itself as a PUBLISHING SERVICE and not an information service, and it is a FOR PROFIT entity. This was to protect YOU. If my agent or publisher decided that this fanfic was in violation of my copyrights, they could very easily sue YOU, your parents if you are a minor, your school if you were using a school machine ... at the very least you would be required, after paying several thousand dollars in legal costs, to pay several more thousand dollars in apology-ads in major booksellers publications, just like that fanzine publisher. I doubt that many of you have that kind of money to throw away; I certainly don't. And I'm afraid that there would be nothing I could do to call off my agent; in areas where my rights---and HIS future income---are concerned, HE has every right to vigorously protect those rights. Be warned, this Has already happened TO ONE FAN WRITER AND PUBLISHER. "It becomes more confused because Prodigy is an electronic service and this laps over into the area of "electronic rights" about which there is a great deal of confusion. Because of the confusion, my agent prefers to err in the direction of being conservative and protectionist. This also goes for "MUCKS" or "MUSH"s. He is flatly NOT PERMITTING any electronic role-playing of any kind, whether it is on a not-for-profit service or for- profit service. So there it is--NO VALDEMAR MUCKS ... If he finds out, and he will eventually, you will get first a "cease and desist" letter from the agency's legal department--and so will the net you are on. The Sysops will not be happy with you about this. If you continue, you will probably be slapped with a lawsuit. If you are a minor, you will probably see your college fund go down the drain. If you are not, paying the out-of-court legal costs alone will set you back several thousand dollars. This is something I have no power over; we are not only talking about MY income, we are talking about my AGENT's income, and he is not going to tolerate anyone cutting into it. With the advent of Electronic Arts books, we now have a real possibility of commercial computer games ... My agent cannot afford to let one person get in the way of that. "To add to the confusion, the "Bookman" is looking more and more likely all the time ... Now here is where it cuts REAL near the bone for me. If one of you, in all innocence, messed up my electronic rights, I could completely be shut out of the books-on-disc market for all current series. And, ten, twenty, or thirty years down the road, when all books are coming out on disc, you will have not only ruined my income, you will have prevented others from experiencing the same pleasure you had in discovering my work. Now, I can write anything; I could turn around and write romances if I had to. But it would be a lot of hardship on me--and it would mean NO MORE VALDEMAR BOOKS. Ever. [&]... "So I am going to require a release from those of you who wish to participate in the electronic fiction CATs, and I am not sure yet what to do about paper fanfic. [QO reported later that: "The decision has been made that you MUST sign a release form for any work created in Misty's worlds that you intend to share with others ... You need a release form for EVERY story set in Misty's universe that you write..."]. [&].... "I don't have to let you in my world. I could be like Yarbro, and forbid it entirely. I don't want to deprive you of the kind of pleasure I got from writing Darkover and other fanfic. I like having you in my sandbox. All I am asking for is a little courtesy and consideration. This piece may be downloaded <or photocopied> and posted to any other systems you choose, with my permission." --Mercedes Lackey. [Here are key excerpts from the release which Lackey is asking all fanfic writers to sign and send to her whenever they compose fiction, poetry etc. set in her universe]. "5. I [fanfic writer] acknowledge that you [Lackey] may use, without any obligation to me and without any payment to me, any of said material which is not protectable as literary property, or which is in the public domain...[ as unprotected material]...I also acknowledge that I have no claim on or interest in any copyrighted material of yours upon which I have based my work. "6. If the material submitted by me pursuant to this release is not unprotected material and if it was neither created by you nor obtained from an independent source, and if you personally accept it for publication in an anthology at some later date, you will ... pay or cause to be paid to me a sum that is not less than a pro rata share (based on the comparative length of the material to the rest of the volume) of 50% of any work or royalties received from the publisher for said work for said specific anthology, except in the case of nonprofessional publication. In return ... I agree to assign all rights, including such copyright interests as I may have in the said work, to you..." ------------------------------ THE SFWA White Knight takes ------------------------------ Date: 19 Jan 93 16:00:03 GMT From: chuq@apple.com (Crow's Friend Timmy) Reply-to: sf-lovers-misc@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Fan Fiction--Copyright Infringement? (LONG) MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu (Mark 'Mark' Sachs) writes: >There ought to be a way of getting a legal ruling; something on the order >of, derivative works created by third parties shall have no effect >whatsoever on the copyright rights of the author. There ARE many many legal rulings already, and they all note that it DOES affect the author. You'd need to rewrite the Berne convention and get all of the signatories to fix this. Chuq Von Rospach chuq@apple.com ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: 9 Feb 93 23:55:29 GMT From: chuq@apple.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Reply-to: sf-lovers-misc@Rutgers.Edu Subject: Re: Marion Zimmer Bradley KitchenRN@SSD0.LAAFB.AF.MIL writes: >I don't understand why MZB said this could make her a misanthrope. Because of one bad apple, she's no longer able to do what she wants. So she feels badly about having to protect herself from the bad apples by tossing out all the good apples as well. >From what I read here, the fan didn't do anything wrong, That's because what you read didn't include the demand for co-authorship on MZB's book, nor did it mention the threatened lawsuit against Marion, or some of the other, nastier stuff. >Couldn't she just work out a deal with the fan so that the fan would sign >an agreement not to sue, or something, so that the book could be >published? She tried. The fan, shall we say, was uncooperative. Chuq Von Rospach chuq@apple.com ------------------------------
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 21:53
|
|
|
Cardiac posted:One funny thing with scientific articles is that when you write one you try to make a story out of your data instead just stating the experimental results. That depends a lot on the discipline, and there are intra-discipline fights over this kind of stuff.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 23:10
|
|
|
I don't know how you can read Gideon and not think the characters are falling for each other under about forty layers of repression. Maybe it's my lesbian brain, but that subtext is very obvious to me.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2021 04:56
|
|
|
New Super Metis posted:I don't know how you can read Gideon and not think the characters are falling for each other under about forty layers of repression. Maybe it's my lesbian brain, but that subtext is very obvious to me. but 'romantic under 40 layers of repression' is textually indistinguishable from 'learning to be family/platonic love' so its just guessing based on what people are predisposed to think e: in this specific book, i mean, not in general! im saying, there's nothing explicitly or implicitly romantic in gideon the ninth (or harrow, and harrow also has an explicitly denunciation of romance iirc) awesmoe fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Jan 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2021 05:09
|
|
|
awesmoe posted:but 'romantic under 40 layers of repression' is textually indistinguishable from 'learning to be family/platonic love' so its just guessing based on what people are predisposed to think 
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2021 05:16
|
|
|
awesmoe posted:but 'romantic under 40 layers of repression' is textually indistinguishable from 'learning to be family/platonic love' so its just guessing based on what people are predisposed to think so you're saying it is the lesbian brain?
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2021 05:31
|
|
|
Collateral posted:I heartily recommend the Audiobook read by Moira Quirk. Yeah. Linking 'cause Harrow spoilers I guess -- nothing big, just a fun snippet.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2021 05:42
|
|
|
When I read Gideon I thought they were supposed to be romantic, 90% into Harrow I thought they weren’t, after finishing Harrow I’m now unsure.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2021 05:43
|
|
|
New Super Metis posted:so you're saying it is the lesbian brain? I wouldnt be crushed or betrayed or anything if it ended up romantic, but I think it would take a change from what they've got now. especially since gideon is alive(?) again and live girls aren't really harrow's type
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2021 05:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 09:50 |
|
|
Danhenge posted:That depends a lot on the discipline, and there are intra-discipline fights over this kind of stuff. Well, it is academia so of course there are fights.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2021 06:34
|
|
