|
Strobe posted:Play games past 3048. Not so much a lack of variety issue, their stars just burn too bright. Both good looking and excellent multi-purpose mechs. It's like 3 prom kings.
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2021 07:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 16:14 |
|
|
Don't forget https://www.mordel.net if you want a massive database of record sheets, including fan-generated tournament legal variations, as well as some outright hilarious schlock.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2021 07:40
|
|
|
Fidel Cuckstro posted:Not so much a lack of variety issue, their stars just burn too bright. Both good looking and excellent multi-purpose mechs. It's like 3 prom kings. Guillotine, Orion/Black Knight, Zeus. Okay, the Zeus isn't really going to compete with an Awesome head to head, but the other three are arguably better than their tonnage counterparts.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2021 17:25
|
|
|
Grasshopper. The Grasshopper might not be prom king but he sure can dunk.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2021 18:10
|
|
|
From 3054 thru 3058 there was a big design trend in the inner sphere to make every other mech look like Q-Bert. And that was probably the crime most deserving of annihilation by the Clans.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2021 07:20
|
|
|
That's just how Star League mechs look, and since every loving machine in those books is some rediscovered Star League machine it's not really a surprise. Those are some loving boring TROs though
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2021 09:43
|
|
|
The star league, was a mistake. e- Kerensky: I will lead us to a promised land, where we can continue to make ugly bug mech, and marry our sisters Guy: hey I was only in this for marrying my sister! Fidel Cuckstro fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Jan 17, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2021 13:22
|
|
|
Defiance Industries posted:That's just how Star League mechs look, and since every loving machine in those books is some rediscovered Star League machine it's not really a surprise. Working on an effortpost about how the concept of what was a LosTech "Star League 'Mech" evolved significantly between the original sourcebooks and the present. Originally it seemed to be implied that Star League 'mechs were just the TRO:3025 'Mechs in a better state of repair and possibly with higher-quality components. TR:2750 was the first book to suggest that there were a whole set of Star League 'Mechs apart from your usual Archers, Warhammers, etc. There have been further retcons to the concept, including the downgrades of the 2750 units for TRO:3025 Revised (despite TRO:2750 heavily implying or outright stating these units did not exist anymore), and the min-maxed 3058 Star League designs (which I hate too). With the Royal design stats they now appear to have tried to implement the original concept of Star League 'Mechs being upgraded versions of the 3025 'Mechs, but even that is not entirely satisfactory since earlier sourcebooks imply it wasn't just Royal units that were superior.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2021 22:17
|
|
|
Carbolic posted:Originally it seemed to be implied that Star League 'mechs were just the TRO:3025 'Mechs in a better state of repair and possibly with higher-quality components. They were definitely very cagey about what Star League tech was initially, because I assume they weren't too hot on trying to commit to how equipment would work by describing it to people first. But there's a few references in the original TRO: 3025 to to machines from the Star League that we had no records of, like the Mackie and Emperor. Also weirdly there's art of a Longbow and what I think might be a Thug in the Star League sourcebook? I think they really started building the concept out when the Star League sourcebook and TRO: 2750 were coming out. The SLSB talks about the equipment Royal units had access to by the end of the Star League and it's stuff like snub-nosed PPCs and "headhunter SRMs." I assume we eventually got snubbies but not headhunters because holy poo poo can you imagine SRMs that roll on the punch table, good god. It also says that technology previously restricted to the Royal units was now going to be available to the Houses, so my reading of that was that the TRO: 2750 stuff was the gear that anyone would have been able to get, and the Royals had better poo poo than that. Much later, Era Report: Golden Century basically confirms this by saying that the Star League had enough research done that the weapons we know as Clantech were just about ready for prototyping when the Amaris Crisis hit and, many decades later, the Clanners wrote their name on someone else's homework. I wonder if this was supposed to be more Clan foreshadowing, since books from 88/89 are absolutely covered in it. Anyway, I think TRO: 2750 was in part a way to backfill the SLDF ranks, because once they started giving dates for things in TRO: 3025, they eventually realized that the cupboard for the late Age of War and Reunification War looked pretty barren, since they'd dated so many things to later than that (particularly Kerensky's buildup of the SLDF). You're gonna tell me that they conquered the whole Periphery when their only assault mech was the goddamn stock Banshee? Nah dude. Plus, it gave us stuff like the Crab and Highlander, so that was pretty cool. quote:There have been further retcons to the concept, including the downgrades of the 2750 units for TRO:3025 Revised (despite TRO:2750 heavily implying or outright stating these units did not exist anymore), and the min-maxed 3058 Star League designs (which I hate too). I give them some slack on the 2750 downgrades, it was Unseen time and they had to pretend that those didn't exist. And yeah, there's non-Unseen in TRO: 3025, but they were made by and large to supplement the original mechs that already existed. Stuff like the Flashman and Black Knight in particular do a good job of filling the hole that the Warhammer and Marauder leave. And the Thorn, Mercury and Mongoose do a good job as the "expendable beer can" that the bug mechs used to be. But I agree, while I liked finally getting Star League-era versions of the old-school mechs, I would have preferred if they'd thrown some of the enhanced/early Clan stuff on them that they made for the Operation Klondike and Golden Century stuff. And I would have given the Royal Thug the 12-point PPCs the Wolverines start manufacturing, for drat sure.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 00:52
|
|
|
There were a couple of things that I think they really hadn't decided for themselves in the early years. A core concept of the 3025 era in which the game was initially set is that the Inner Sphere was in a dark age of decline, in which much technology from the old Star League had been lost, seemingly irretrievably. Star League technology had become largely LosTech. But what exactly was the nature of the Star League technology? Different 'Mechs? Better weapons? Both? There were two questions that 3025 and some of the early sourcebooks were pretty ambiguous on: 1. Were there a separate bunch of 'Mech designs in the Star League era (other than the 3025 'Mechs), or was a "Star League 'Mech" just a 3025 'Mech but better? 2. Did 'Mechs have substantially better equipment in the Star League era, or was it just a matter of being in better repair and more available? TRO:3025 (1986) wasn't really clear on either question. On question #1 the intro said that "while it is beyond the scope of this book to include every known war machine, it does cover all the major classes and models in use today." That didn't rule out that earlier Star League designs existed that had gone extinct, and in fact there were references to three older Assault 'Mechs that were stated or implied to be very rare now because of being so old - the Mackie, the Striker and the Emperor (all of which eventually got stats in TRO:3058). But these weren't implied to be cutting-edge Star League designs. And there was no mention of Phoenix Hawks fighting Wyverns in the historical battles; all the descriptive text was focused on the units in TRO:3025 fighting each other throughout history. As for question #2, the technology level of the Star League, most of the entries in TRO:3025 make it sound like the armament of those 'Mechs has been essentially fixed for centuries, dating back to the 2400s or 2500s for some of them, even while some of them became widely used by the SLDF. The Rifleman and Dragon are both from the 2700s yet have had exactly the same autocannon (the Imperator-A AC/5) from the 2700s through to 3025. If you look at the early scenario packs (Tales of the Black Widow, McKinnon's Raiders, etc.), they featured pre-applied damage to many of the BattleMechs, suggesting that just having a working BattleMech after centuries of repairs was a challenge. So was the Star League advantage just about having mint-condition 'Mechs, rather than weapons systems which were stronger in-game? The counter-argument comes from the Crusader's entry: "The Crusader's original Hawk SRMs and Phoenix LRMs have long since been exhausted, replaced by the unguided missiles produced by the Successor States' munitions factories. These inferior substitutes cannot match the range or accuracy of the old missiles." This suggests that a Crusader in the Star League era may have looked the same and had the same generic names for its weapons systems (medium laser, LRM, etc.), but those weapons systems were superior to those in 3025. Question #1 got answered definitively in 1989 when TRO:2750 introduced the first Star League 'Mechs with Level 2 technology. But I find it really interesting that the House Books and the Star League sourcebook (1987-88) still seemed to be ambiguous about whether Star League 'Mechs were different designs, or just better versions of what was in TRO:3025. Apart from the Mackie, I can't find a text reference in any of those six books to any sort of named 'Mech design other than those in TRO:3025. They could have talked about Black Knights or Sentinels or whatever as a teaser, leaving the stats to be fleshed out later (like how the Star League sourcebook threw around WarShip class names left and right, before any stats were published). Instead, every historical figure is piloting a Wasp, Phoenix Hawk, Archer, etc. The Star League says that Kerensky preferred to pilot an Orion because it was his first 'Mech rather than one of "the Hegemony’s ultra-sophisticated 'Mech designs" which may suggest that there were unique Star League chassis, but it wasn't until TRO:2750 that that was made definitive. The Star League sourcebook (1988) does make clear, repeatedly, that there were degrees of quality between 'Mechs, including in weapons systems. At p. 61: "First Lord Jonathan said that he would follow the laws regarding weapon technology. Any new weapon systems would go to Royal units in the SLDF first, to the other SLDF units a few years later, and finally to the House militaries after a decade or more. The member states would not get the new technology for many years, but they would benefit from hand-me-downs. Such devices as advanced computers, advanced personal weapons, and 'Mech designs that had been restricted to the Royal units would become available to the House militaries." The book continues: "Improved 'Mechs, Headhunter Missiles, Snub-nosed PPCs, and countless new vehicles appeared, utilizing breakthrough research in such areas as energy and myomer technology." At p. 107 in the sidebar: "Compared to 'Mechs of the 31st century, Star League 'Mechs in the middle 2700s had more efficient and lighter fusion plans and engines, more efficient heat sinks, longer-range weapons, smarter missiles, advanced electronics, and better-trained pilots. House 'Mechs of the time were no match for those in the SLDF." But again it was left somewhat ambiguous whether these cutting-edge 'Mechs of the middle 2700s were completely new designs as-yet not introduced into canon, or whether the average Archer of 2750 was qualitatively superior both to the first Archer developed in 2474 and to the Archers around in 3025. The 20-Year Update (1989) strongly suggests the latter, when it discusses (from the perspective of a Wolfnet analyst) the Com Guards' new machines: it says that they have fielded "machines in mint condition and of designs not seen since the Star League era." The author hypothesizes that ComStar 'has access to BattleMech designs of the Star League Defense forces." If so, the author stated, "the repercussions are enormous. In a battle between 'Mechs of the same design, the ComStar 'Mech would have a great advantage because it retains its original and technologically superior parts, while the contemporary 'Mech is fighting under the handicap of centuries of jury-rigging and technical compromises." TRO:2750 of course introduced new Star League-only designs which (at that point) were either outright stated or strongly implied not to have survived to the present day (circa 3048 when the TRO was written in-universe). This didn't necessarily contradict the idea that the Star League fielded improved versions of 3025 'Mechs however. The Tukayyid scenario pack (1994) puts a dent in the "superior 3025 'Mechs in the 28th century" theory because it provides a full roster of 'Mechs for the Com Guard player to choose from, which were taken from ComStar’s vaults of Star League-era equipment. Only 'Mechs from 3025, 2750, 3050, and the "Clanbuster" upgrades of 2750 'Mechs are present. No souped-up 3025 'Mechs. (Although practically speaking, the scenario pack already had 5 new Clanbuster 'Mechs; upgrading the entire 3025 roster would have been a bit much for one sourcebook, I think.) TRO:3058 (1995) is a retcon of sorts from the Tukayyid scenario pack by introducing a number of Star League designs not published in 2750 or referred to in Tukayyid, such as the Spector, Shootist, Pillager, etc. These designs, generally highly min-maxed uses of Level 2 technology, fit what the Star League sourcebook described as "ultra-sophisticated" much better than the 2750 'Mechs which were generally pretty mediocre and seldom used the technology to its fullest. With the Unseen debacle, TRO:3025 was republished as TRO:3025 Revised (1996) with the Unseen 'Mechs were removed. In order to flesh out the sourcebook again, downgraded versions of the 2750 'Mechs were retconned as having existed in 3025. The explanation provided in the in-universe preface was that the original TRO:3025, a ComStar document, had had 20 Star League-era BattleMechs "removed from the original document by ComStar censors. These rare 'Mechs appear in this revised upload in configurations specially designed by ComStar to eliminate any trace of LosTech." But the text of the TRO itself refers to a number of the designs as being actively manufactured. That is in contradiction to all previous sources that purported to give comprehensive lists of 'Mech production including the House books and Objective Raids. It also contradicts the 20 Year Update, which had emphasized that the Com Guards, and the Draconis Combine in 3039, were fielding designs not seen since the era of the Star League. The one thing that does make sense about the retconned 2750 downgrades is that if all of the 3025 designs survived the Succession Wars, despite some of them ceasing production entirely, why would none of the 2750 ones do so? Having them survive in downgraded form isn't illogical, if you ignore them having pretty clearly been written out of canon up until that point. Finally comes RS:3075 Unabridged Record Sheets (2009). I don't own this product so my understanding is based on the Sarna wiki. RS:3075 Unabridged record sheets provided stats for Royal versions of 'Mechs like the Phoenix Hawk, Crusader, Marauder, and other 3025 favourites. The Sarna entry for the Crusader variant talks about "Hawk Streak SRM-2s" which is clearly an attempt to explain the TRO:3025 reference quoted above. This is to my knowledge the first effort to provide stats for 3025 'Mechs as they would have been deployed in superior versions in the Star League. It still doesn’t completely match the text in the Star League sourcebook which implied a hierarchy: Royal > regular SLDF > everyone else, which would suggest that even line SLDF units would expect to have superior versions of the 3025 'Mechs. But it is at least a gesture toward the themes in the original sourcebooks. In my personal head canon, the SLDF fielded improved versions of the classic 3025 designs which were not restricted just to Royal units. These were in production during the heyday of the Star League. The Successor States may have been producing these improved designs too, after stealing or obtaining the designs from the Star League. But ultimately the factories that survived had to revert to Level 1 technology because they lost the ability to make advanced components, and the surviving examples also lost their LosTech when it became impossible to repair. (Maybe the late-era Star League designs just used double heat sinks, pulse lasers, Streak SRM-2s etc. Or maybe the weapons by that point were qualitatively superior to Inner Sphere Level 2 technology; maybe a late-Star League medium laser did 6 damage out to 12 hexes, halfway to the Clan ER Medium.) Also in my head canon, the 2750 downgrades never existed; the designs in TRO:2750 were the unlucky ones that didn’t survive the Succession Wars outside of ComStar's vaults, while the designs in TRO:3025 were the lucky ones that did survive, albeit downgraded. The 2750 designs were therefore a genuine shock when they reappeared under Draconis colours in the War of 3039 and with the Com Guards.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 03:37
|
|
|
This is also complicated by things like the First Hidden War, described in Historical: Reunification War, wherein Draconis Combine 'Mechs would challenge and routinely kick the poo poo out of SLDF regulars in single combat. That balance of power wasn't significantly altered until the Gunslinger program, and even after the SLDF started putting out some of the best MechWarriors to ever wear a neurohelmet the Combine still held the edge in total winrate through the end of the duels. I think that lends a bit more credence to the interpretation that the SLDF had better designs, but their equipment wasn't necessarily qualitatively superior component for component - at least not in any way that the tabletop is capable of representing, which is certainly not enough of a superiority to explain the mythical status of Star League designs in the original fiction. Realistically, it's a retcon. When the Star League period hadn't been explored in significant detail, it was easy to portray it as a shining beacon of unimpeachable military might in every facet and category. Now, however, it has been explored, and in order to keep that exploration interesting the Star League was still militarily unmatched but was beset on all sides by some manner of petty squabbling or minor skirmish. Those conflicts can't stay interesting or meaningful in any sense if they ultimately come down to a Star League boot stepping on a Periphery face, forever, so the scales ended up much more balanced at the individual 'Mech and tactical level. The Star League's military supremacy then became its industrial might, its slim technological advantages in some 'Mech designs (Royals, mostly) that other states didn't have, and its proclivity to resolve disputes with non-trivial fractions of a planet's mass in military hardware. The early fiction and setting conceits have also been largely retconned. Most particularly, the idea that any kind of significant or well-known force is going into combat with significant pre-existing damage. The campaign, repair, and refit rules put it to bed pretty harshly; it's absolutely trivial to show up on a planet and have all of your 'Mechs at least start the engagement with full armor. Even green/inexperienced techs have plenty of time to put armor back on everything that needs it between bouts of interstellar travel. An Atlas, the thing with the most possible armor in those early days, takes 1585 work-minutes to replace every single point of armor on the entire 'Mech. That's a little bit more than three days' work for a tech team even without overtime, and the shortest planet -> jump point -> planet routes tend to be closer to a week. The biggest bottleneck is quantity of armor, which is actually supported by the absolutely pathetic internal cargo spaces of the most common canon dropships (Leopards and Unions), but is wholly unsupported by the relative scarcity of armor (it isn't, at all) and equal ease with which it's produced on literally dozens of planets across the entire sphere. Even the worst, hardest up mercenary commands can afford and find armor basically everywhere.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 04:01
|
|
|
The vast majority of my Battletech lore came from video game instruction manuals back in the 90s. I had the 3-pack with Crescent Hawk's Inception, Revenge, and the original MechWarrior. In the awesome book packaged with that box, it mentions that the Marauder was a Star League mech that had become less and less common and they weren't able to manufacturer the original parts anymore, so a working Marauder was highly valuable and incredibly rare and most of the ones you saw were held together basically with duct tape. I also don't think it had any impact on gameplay in any of the games it was present in. I doubt this was canon and I also haven't physically had that book in my hands in 20 years (I had lent it to a friend and I moved across the country and never saw it again!) so it's entirely possible I'm misremembering altogether. I really just wanted to stress how awesome that game manual was.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 04:12
|
|
|
Quietly wooting at all these posts.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 04:14
|
|
|
Atlas Hugged posted:The vast majority of my Battletech lore came from video game instruction manuals back in the 90s. I had the 3-pack with Crescent Hawk's Inception, Revenge, and the original MechWarrior. In the awesome book packaged with that box, it mentions that the Marauder was a Star League mech that had become less and less common and they weren't able to manufacturer the original parts anymore, so a working Marauder was highly valuable and incredibly rare and most of the ones you saw were held together basically with duct tape. I also don't think it had any impact on gameplay in any of the games it was present in. You're not actually that far off. The Marauder entry from TRO: 3025 talks about how the Star League version had special armor that was way better than anything produced today, so the more they got shot at, the more patchwork the armor got as they had to replace it with stuff that didn't match. Now Marauders usually look all lovely because their armor is a patchwork of standard plate with little patches where the original Star League stuff still is. Strobe posted:This is also complicated by things like the First Hidden War, described in Historical: Reunification War, wherein Draconis Combine 'Mechs would challenge and routinely kick the poo poo out of SLDF regulars in single combat. That balance of power wasn't significantly altered until the Gunslinger program, and even after the SLDF started putting out some of the best MechWarriors to ever wear a neurohelmet the Combine still held the edge in total winrate through the end of the duels. OTOH, the First Hidden War is before the big leap in technology the SLDF was making in the 2700s, so they gave themselves an out on that one in the Star League book. All of the petty squabbles, though, aren't really recent changes from them setting more material in the era, that's straight from the old House books. Defiance Industries fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Jan 18, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 04:23
|
|
|
Defiance Industries posted:You're not actually that far off. The Marauder entry from TRO: 3025 talks about how the Star League version had special armor that was way better than anything produced today, so the more they got shot at, the more patchwork the armor got as they had to replace it with stuff that didn't match. Now Marauders usually look all lovely because their armor is a patchwork of standard plate with little patches where the original Star League stuff still is. Funny how you remember stuff like that but I couldn't loving tell you how to do anything in calculus.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 04:29
|
|
|
Strobe posted:The early fiction and setting conceits have also been largely retconned. Most particularly, the idea that any kind of significant or well-known force is going into combat with significant pre-existing damage. The campaign, repair, and refit rules put it to bed pretty harshly; it's absolutely trivial to show up on a planet and have all of your 'Mechs at least start the engagement with full armor. Even green/inexperienced techs have plenty of time to put armor back on everything that needs it between bouts of interstellar travel. An Atlas, the thing with the most possible armor in those early days, takes 1585 work-minutes to replace every single point of armor on the entire 'Mech. That's a little bit more than three days' work for a tech team even without overtime, and the shortest planet -> jump point -> planet routes tend to be closer to a week. The biggest bottleneck is quantity of armor, which is actually supported by the absolutely pathetic internal cargo spaces of the most common canon dropships (Leopards and Unions), but is wholly unsupported by the relative scarcity of armor (it isn't, at all) and equal ease with which it's produced on literally dozens of planets across the entire sphere. Even the worst, hardest up mercenary commands can afford and find armor basically everywhere. The early scenario books would justify the pre-existing damage as "the internal structure on the arm got weakened years ago and could never be fully be repaired so it can't hold as much armour" or "the PPC was improperly repaired so it generates +2 heat" so they were trying a bit harder than "it got damaged in the last fight," but yeah as they got away from the very early concept that there were nearly zero factories, to the concept that the Inner Sphere still had industry, those details made less sense. A House unit could definitely swap in a new PPC, or fix the internal structure, with relative ease. Defiance Industries posted:You're not actually that far off. The Marauder entry from TRO: 3025 talks about how the Star League version had special armor that was way better than anything produced today, so the more they got shot at, the more patchwork the armor got as they had to replace it with stuff that didn't match. Now Marauders usually look all lovely because their armor is a patchwork of standard plate with little patches where the original Star League stuff still is. Dang I forgot about that one. I knew it wasn't just the Crusader that was talking about how there were superior components in the past. Although it's funny, it says the Marauder's Valiant Lamellor armour is superior and the secret of making it has been lost, and talks about patchworks as you say, but there is no game effect for any of that. Again part of how TRO:3025 didn't really make clear just how superior the old tech was supposed to be.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 04:48
|
|
|
My favorite (and not entirely canon) explanation for the Star League's "technological superiority" is the Cameron Mythos. House Cameron managed to sell the Successor States on the idea of interstellar monarchies. Of space feudalism. Of knights in 14 meter shining armor (which just so coincidentally happened to be easier to locate and eliminate from orbit than an entire planet of camouflaged tanks and infantry would be). House Cameron determined how much territory they could actively and directly control, held those borders with excessive force, and convinced their neighbors that they were actually House Cameron's subordinates until Little Richard went and got himself murdered because he'd bought into the family hype. BattleMechs make a lot of sense as a long con to keep the Great Houses distracted with this year's newest, fanciest toys that they could paint in flashy colors and frighten the serfs with. The real strength of the SLDF was its navy--in the same way House Kurita's (Go Dragons! Go Chargers!) secret strength, pre 3050, was their air force--which let House Cameron (and later Kurita) choose engagements that favored them to keep their KDR looking impressive on the leaderboards even when they were getting actively dunked on by backwater Samurai (and Cowboys). Most everything we know about the Star League we know because of untrustworthy narrators who are telling tall tales of a golden age to explain why it's just so important to keep fighting the Free Worlds League for the throne of a polity 300 years dead rather than turning their eyes towards the uncertain prospects of colonizing worlds the Star League Explorer Corps was actively poisoning for a century before Amaris took over. Or it's information taken at face value from the secret archives of a pack of crazy conservatives who thought dressing up like space wizards and who like to pretend that their telephones only stay working because of magic and the pixie dust harvested from the ground up bones of William Blake--rather than admitting they still had that one factory on Terra that could replicate the Star League's Planned Obsolescence Microchip (the one with the ten-year working lifespan)--and who rely on the rubes in the white robes believing everything used to be better and would be better again if they just believed hard enough and murdered enough scientists. The difference between a factory new SLDF Shadow Hawk and the one Joseph Steiner inherited when his grandfather died of the Kentares Flu was that the Mechwarrior of the SLDF didn't have to stomp on the foot pedals quite as hard to get the jump jets to kick in, and the left knee didn't make that awful metal fatigue shrieking sound when they touched down.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 04:53
|
|
|
I tend to like the idea that there was nothing particularly special about the Star League outside of its Royals and its sheer, immense military bulk, in terms of differences between the SLDF and the successor states of at least the 1SW. In 3025, sure, a typical House unit isn't going to measure up thanks to Holy Shroud's deliberate depressive influence. But by the time the 3050s and 60s roll around, there's functionally no difference between a Shadow Hawk 2H manufactured on Dunianshire then that there was in the 2750s. BattleTech has been setup in such a way that the illustrious peaks of the Golden Age of the Star League can't really continue to out of reach at the rate things have been advancing to and past the pinnacles of Star League tech in any but the civilian, bulk manufacturing, and maybe medical fields.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 05:14
|
|
|
I think everyone being in on ComStar being a con is overblown. There's probably a lot of true believers in there, especially since we know ComStar likes to target the most hosed worlds for recruitment. They probably just don't get a lot of advancement because the higher echelons of ComStar seem reserved for recruits from the educated or wealthy.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 09:44
|
|
|
Reading some sarna articles to ground myself a little more on this conversation, and caught this in the Terran Alliance/Hegemony historyquote:The political turmoil began to escalate that year, when the newly emergent People's Liberation Party began its rise. Both Expansionists and Liberals were quick to offer the PLP's leader, Grant Zoli, concessions for an alliance. Zoli, who had formed the PLP as a money-making scheme, decided for an alliance with the highest bidder I like the idea that the Terran Alliance fell apart mostly due to a future Donald Trump. e- quote:Neo-Feudalism oh, of course Fidel Cuckstro fucked around with this message at 10:53 on Jan 18, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 10:44
|
|
|
Gotta find a way to make jobs for the masses somehow. Not everywhere can be Terra. (Because Terra sucks up wealth from everywhere else to do that). Defiance Industries fucked around with this message at 11:48 on Jan 18, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 11:23
|
|
|
While on the topic of lore, how are dropship docking collars supposed to work? You have dropships sized anywhere from a 747 to an aircraft carrier and just as many shapes in between. Are they just really long flexible hoses?
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 16:27
|
|
|
Z the IVth posted:While on the topic of lore, how are dropship docking collars supposed to work? You have dropships sized anywhere from a 747 to an aircraft carrier and just as many shapes in between. Are they just really long flexible hoses? I liked the decision HBS made and the docking collars are more flat platforms that even spheroid dropships attach to from the side.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 17:09
|
|
|
Defiance Industries posted:Gotta find a way to make jobs for the masses somehow. Not everywhere can be Terra. I think the thing that makes me enjoy going back in to old rpg lore like Battletech and Shadowrun is it forces me to try and reconcile what I thought about the lore when I was 10 and thought history was a thing in a book, and now when I know history is a sinister trick played by Dr. Yakub
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 17:12
|
|
|
Z the IVth posted:While on the topic of lore, how are dropship docking collars supposed to work? You have dropships sized anywhere from a 747 to an aircraft carrier and just as many shapes in between. Are they just really long flexible hoses? Basically the Terran Hegemony said "okay everybody put a thing on your ships that is a hatch and a USB" and now you can hook DropShips to the outside of the ship rather than having to ride around inside like the original JumpShips. Smaller JumpShips usually have a recessed hardpoint that the DS attaches to, while bigger ones have arms that run out from the hull. Also, many of the smaller JS cannot dock with the largest classes of DS, because ships above a certain tonnage threshold require two collars instead of one, which I have always assumed was like how there's always one outlet you can't use on a power strip because every plug has a giant box on the end. Defiance Industries fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Jan 18, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 19:17
|
|
|
Defiance Industries posted:Also, many of the smaller JS cannot dock with the largest classes of DS, because ships above a certain tonnage threshold require two collars instead of one, which I have always assumed was like how there's always one outlet you can't use on a power strip because every plug has a giant box on the end. It's like the old USB drives that needed an additional plug for power. So when a ship jumps it jumps everything within a certain radius and you don't need to be tethered particularly firmly to the jumpship?
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 19:27
|
|
|
Part of the point of a docking collar is to physically tie the DS into the JS for jumping. This is because things in a jump field that are not attached to the ship itself get hosed up when the K-F drive fires. Interstellar Ops says that when something jumps in the same hex as you, you make a control roll and if you fail, you take 2d6 capital-scale damage (2d6x10 Battletech damage) to each hit location.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 19:33
|
|
|
Turns out, when you merge two points in spacetime to make them one single point in spacetime, things that only exist at one of those two points get merged with nothing at all and that's a pretty bad time.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2021 19:55
|
|
|
I painted a thing:   Didn't really have a plan going in, but I like the colors and I think he'll fit in fine on my hex map.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2021 13:38
|
|
|
Is there any 3025-era mech that the Horned Owl would be a reasonable replacement of, in terms of rough look?
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 05:42
|
|
|
Fidel Cuckstro posted:Is there any 3025-era mech that the Horned Owl would be a reasonable replacement of, in terms of rough look? Wolfhound, maybe the Vixen/Incubus, or the Hermes 2.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 05:49
|
|
|
Ostscout. The most "Oh yeah, I forgot about that one!" 'Mech
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 06:09
|
|
|
Atlas Hugged posted:I painted a thing: Serious MechCommander vibes.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 06:37
|
|
|
I really need to decide on colors for my kickstarter 'Mechs soon. They're just sitting there, taunting me. Choice paralysis is a hell of a thing.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 07:06
|
|
|
PoptartsNinja posted:I really need to decide on colors for my kickstarter 'Mechs soon. They're just sitting there, taunting me. Choice paralysis is a hell of a thing. I'm here to save you: option A:  option B: 
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 08:08
|
|
|
 Finished another one. Seeing the above images makes me really want to do one up in Minnesota Vikings colors. Maybe a Wisconsin Badger unit after that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 08:30
|
|
|
Taintrunner posted:Wolfhound, maybe the Vixen/Incubus, or the Hermes 2. PoptartsNinja posted:Ostscout. Wolfhound seems like a good choice, and it does make it feel more differentiated from the Panther. Hermes 2/Ostscout also works, although I think the Horned Owl looks beefier than how I'd imagine both of them. Basically, I want to grab that Clan Striker Star at some point, too many good looking models even for an Inner Sphere guy like myself.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 12:45
|
|
|
Atlas Hugged posted:Finished another one. Seeing the above images makes me really want to do one up in Minnesota Vikings colors.   
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 14:10
|
|
|
I mean this is the answer now. Also idk if this is the place to ask or not but has anyone tried playing/running Mechwarrior Destiny, how rough is it. How much is missing from it that needs to get filled in and is what's there enjoyable. I've watched one Actual Play and they just loaded in a lot of blades in the dark mechanics to fill design holes, not sure how much is needed or not.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 23:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 16:14 |
|
|
X-post PTN-TRO mechs from the loveable NRWR. Legion  Screamer 
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 01:42
|
|