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Zesty posted:You trying to do it cheap or trying to do it obviously? Go black hole or go home. 
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Jan 15, 2021 05:38
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....mormon heaven?
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Jan 15, 2021 05:49
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Wait, would they even have proper day/night cycles?
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Jan 15, 2021 06:12
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SerialKilldeer posted:Go black hole or go home. Would love to see what a mock-up of the sky would look like from one of those planets...
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Jan 15, 2021 06:22
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10000 lumens on the day side and 100 sierverts on the night side.
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Jan 16, 2021 03:50
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Plus I'd guess there would be some intense tides before the irradiated oceans boil off.
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Jan 16, 2021 04:01
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How are u posted:Would love to see what a mock-up of the sky would look like from one of those planets... Very bright.
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Jan 16, 2021 05:23
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Ornamental Dingbat posted:Plus I'd guess there would be some intense tides before the irradiated oceans boil off. Like you’re looking up from the bottom of a bag of marbles.
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Jan 16, 2021 08:54
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http://tetzoo.com/blog/2021/1/16/the-netflix-series-alien-worlds Darren Nash of TetZoo was one of the scientific consultants for alien worlds, here is him discussing it all.
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Jan 20, 2021 00:17
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Captain Monkey posted:Like you’re looking up from the bottom of a bag of marbles. That are all killing you, apparently.
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Jan 20, 2021 00:51
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Is there a reason why defense contractors aren’t working on fully or partially reusable rockets like SpaceX or Blue Origin are trying to do? Is it a if it ain’t broke type of thing? Or because they’re rolling in contracts either way so why bother? Is there something about it that makes it not worth it?
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Jan 20, 2021 00:57
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Boris Galerkin posted:Is there a reason why defense contractors aren’t working on fully or partially reusable rockets like SpaceX or Blue Origin are trying to do? Is it a if it ain’t broke type of thing? Or because they’re rolling in contracts either way so why bother? Is there something about it that makes it not worth it? The short answer is that aerospace is a very conservative industry, with long lead times from idea to launch. If they started work on reusable launchers right as SpaceX was starting to launch Falcon 9s youd see them start rolling out new rockets around this year (ignoring the pandemic); but they didn't start work on it right then they only focused on reduced costs for disposable launchers, thinking SpaceX would fail. Only now as their new "cheaper" disposable rockets are coming online is it completely obvious that disposable rockets are a dead end. Technically ULA is supposed to coming up with a semi reusable version of one of their rockets where they jettison the engine with a parachute and catch it with a helicopter (which is something thats been done before), but we have no idea how 'real' that plan is. The super short answer is that defence contractors arent "paid to innovate" theyre to make sure their is a us sourced launch capability and thats it, and with cost plus contracts there hasnt been any reason for them to make dramatically cheaper rockets. Communist Zombie fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Jan 20, 2021 |
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Jan 20, 2021 01:13
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I'm gonna laugh my rear end off when China starts rocking up with reusable boosters before US Old Space companies do
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Jan 20, 2021 01:21
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Communist Zombie posted:Technically ULA is supposed to coming up with a semi reusable version of one of their rockets where they jettison the engine with a parachute and catch it with a helicopter (which is something thats been done before), but we have no idea how 'real' that plan is. What, like that scene in Batman TDK?
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Jan 20, 2021 03:03
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https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1361-6382/abdf6e/pdf . In this study, we develop a model of a general warp drive spacetime in classical relativity that encloses all existing warp drive definitions and allows for new metrics without the most serious issues present in the Alcubierre solution. We present the first general model for subliminal positive-energy, spherically symmetric warp drives; construct superluminal warp-drive solutions which satisfy quantum inequalities; provide optimizations for the Alcubierre metric that decrease the negative energy requirements by two orders of magnitude; and introduce a warp drive spacetime in which space capacity and the rate of time can be chosen in a controlled manner. Conceptually, we demonstrate that any warp drive, including the Alcubierre drive, is a shell of regular or exotic material moving inertially with a certain velocity. Therefore, any warp drive requires propulsion. We show that a class of subluminal, spherically symmetric warp drive spacetimes, at least in principle, can be constructed based on the physical principles known to humanity today. note that Professor Bobrick works for NASA's Advanced Propulsion Laboratory
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Jan 30, 2021 01:35
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I meant to post this article about Arecibo's demise earlier but forgot, so enjoy some light weekend reading if that's your jam.
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Jan 30, 2021 01:42
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PawParole posted:https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1361-6382/abdf6e/pdf A two order of magnitude reduction in exotic matter required is still a non-zero amount of exotic matter required.
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Jan 30, 2021 01:51
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12 mo embargo to get a full text copy  really want to read more about their negative energy and exotic material solution
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Jan 30, 2021 02:25
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Nitrousoxide posted:A two order of magnitude reduction in exotic matter required is still a non-zero amount of exotic matter required. Well, warp drives have to use something as fuel.  According to Wikipedia, the existence of several exotic hadrons has been confirmed experimentally, so we can already make some warp drive fuel (in very tiny, short-lived amounts). Looks like we're gonna find out if warp drives break the barrier of light or not very soon!
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Jan 30, 2021 09:57
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Libluini posted:Well, warp drives have to use something as fuel. I'm sorry, are you saying that we've experimentally proved real negative mass in matter? Care to link to that? Edit: to clarify, this model of warp drive requires matter that negatively warps space by having negative mass (the opposite of normal matter, and a seriously weird property that at the moment there is no mainstream expectations that it would even exist). That kind of matter would be "exotic", but that's a general purpose term for matter that behaves significantly differently from normal matter. There's exotic matter that is fully expected to exist, but you can't just throw any old matter into your warp coils just because it's called exotic and expect to hit warp 9. That's even worse that shoving argon into your car and expecting it to go because it's"gas". If they've brought down the amount of negative mass matter required by 2 orders of magnitude, then that might be a scenario where you could use the Casimir effect to fill in for it. However, that requires the Casimir effect to actually create a space of negatively curving space in reality, and not just in theory. It might well do, but that's an open question at the moment. Bug Squash fucked around with this message at 11:12 on Jan 30, 2021 |
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Jan 30, 2021 10:24
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Bug Squash posted:I'm sorry, are you saying that we've experimentally proved real negative mass in matter? Care to link to that? To answer your question, I was clicking through the exotic hadron candidate list on Wikipedia, but as far as I can tell, the discovered candidates so far seem to have mass. Though Wikipedia isn't clarifying if it's positive or negative mass, or just not listing anything about their mass at all. Sadly, I don't have the time to go through all the sources and read them, people interested in exotic matter probably should, though. Based on this, I'm haphazarding a careful guess that the exotic matter discovered so far doesn't have negative mass. But nice to hear there are alternatives to exotic matter! The chance for warp drives being built in the future has increased again!
Libluini fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Jan 30, 2021 |
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Jan 30, 2021 11:25
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I wonder if the existence of the kind of exotic matter needed for warp drives to work is yet another one of those things that will be proven once we work out a unified theory of forces? It seems like everything else, like what happened at the big bang, inflation, dark energy, and what happens in black holes is answered by unifying the standard model with relativity, so why not this?
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Jan 30, 2021 15:46
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DrSunshine posted:I wonder if the existence of the kind of exotic matter needed for warp drives to work is yet another one of those things that will be proven once we work out a unified theory of forces? It seems like everything else, like what happened at the big bang, inflation, dark energy, and what happens in black holes is answered by unifying the standard model with relativity, so why not this? Exotic matter is already a math theory sort of thing, where there is no specific reason found why mass needs to be positive, where most fields can be positive or negative and the equations still seem to work fine if you put negative mass in. It just seems like literally everything in the universe happens to be positive mass. A better theory could provide a good hard reason there is no negative mass. Or it could leave us with the math for how negative math would be if it exists but still have it not be a real thing. Like, our theories for magnetic fields really want there to be magnetic monopoles, but we are finding there seem not to be. So our theory is sort of tending towards 'there was at least one monopole at some point in the history of the universe anywhere" and exotic matter could end up like that, theories predict it could or even must exist, but it still not being a thing you can ever get anywhere. Or it could be like antimatter where theories predict it, then we found it, and it's kinda everywhere, just not for long.
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Jan 30, 2021 17:21
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So, considering that FTL is possibly the great filter because once you use it it breaks causality and the universe collapses and ceases to exist and so only universes that have never experienced FTL can ever be in existence, do we still try it? Is it worth the risk? Do we vote on it?
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Jan 30, 2021 17:37
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Exotic matter is already a math theory sort of thing, where there is no specific reason found why mass needs to be positive, where most fields can be positive or negative and the equations still seem to work fine if you put negative mass in. It just seems like literally everything in the universe happens to be positive mass. Even if you can, starting with your wanted end point of a negative mass particle, work backwards in the math to get the other properties of such a proposed particle, it doesn't mean it really exists. There are other reasons to think they don't exist, such as cosmic censorship hypothesis (as negative mass could potentially be used to expose the singularity of a black hole, or even traverse the einstein-rosen bridge into other universes or time reversed universes from the perspective of a white hole) and the various time paradoxes that can be created with FTL.
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Jan 30, 2021 18:18
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GABA ghoul posted:So, considering that FTL is possibly the great filter because once you use it it breaks causality and the universe collapses and ceases to exist and so only universes that have never experienced FTL can ever be in existence, do we still try it? Is it worth the risk? Do we vote on it? We tested nukes without being sure if it’d light the atmosphere on fire, someone’ll test FTL if it’s possible.
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Jan 30, 2021 18:22
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Captain Monkey posted:We tested nukes without being sure if it’d light the atmosphere on fire, I can't remember where I read it but am pretty sure that's bollocks..
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Jan 30, 2021 18:28
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GABA ghoul posted:So, considering that FTL is possibly the great filter because once you use it it breaks causality and the universe collapses and ceases to exist and so only universes that have never experienced FTL can ever be in existence, do we still try it? Is it worth the risk? Do we vote on it? If the evolutionary theory for universes is correct, it's more likely that universes that can effectively reproduce other universes don't have these universe collapsing flaws in them in the first place.
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Jan 30, 2021 18:29
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Nitrousoxide posted:If the evolutionary theory for universes is correct, it's more likely that universes that can effectively reproduce other universes don't have these universe collapsing flaws in them in the first place. Statements like this are why a lot of philosophers of science are annoyed by modern "cutting-edge" physics, lol. Whether this were true or false, how would we know?
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Jan 30, 2021 18:46
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Nitrousoxide posted:Even if you can, starting with your wanted end point of a negative mass particle, work backwards in the math to get the other properties of such a proposed particle, it doesn't mean it really exists. There are other reasons to think they don't exist, such as cosmic censorship hypothesis (as negative mass could potentially be used to expose the singularity of a black hole, or even traverse the einstein-rosen bridge into other universes or time reversed universes from the perspective of a white hole) and the various time paradoxes that can be created with FTL. Cosmic censorship always seemed a rather dubious principal to me, and rather backwards logic. It would make more sense to me if it were a kind of easy rule of thumb, like how you can generally rule out any machine that violates the laws of thermodynamics because there's a deeper underlying principal that "protects" it from an enterprising engineer. I guess if a theory of everything revealed that black holes were a spacetime shell with no inside or something, that would be similar. Anything that let you peak inside in theory was clearly the result of a dodgy theory since there literally wasn't an inside.
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Jan 30, 2021 18:51
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Trainee PornStar posted:I can't remember where I read it but am pretty sure that's bollocks.. you're bollocks.
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Jan 30, 2021 18:57
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Captain Monkey posted:you're bollocks. I remember reading that in "The Science of Discworld", something about speculation that it could cause an N2 O2 chain reaction, and I thought it seemed pretty dubious even with that pedigree. I don't think there was a citation in the book for where they got the idea from, but I'm will to believe there were a few fruitcakes at the Manhattan Project that brain farted outloud.
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Jan 30, 2021 19:02
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https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00249-y The "life on Venus" thing is coming under increasing scientific criticism. Unfortunately, my "even if there's no life, we'll still learn something interesting about phosphine" prediction earlier in this thread may be wrong; it looks like the "phosphine" may have actually just been sulfur dioxide.
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Jan 30, 2021 19:09
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Bug Squash posted:I remember reading that in "The Science of Discworld", something about speculation that it could cause an N2 O2 chain reaction, and I thought it seemed pretty dubious even with that pedigree. I don't think there was a citation in the book for where they got the idea from, but I'm will to believe there were a few fruitcakes at the Manhattan Project that brain farted outloud. Random science guy idly speculates,, some pop sci mag sensationalizes it, random lunatics run with it and 50 years later people are like "see everybody used to believe in global cooling". Did you know that in 2010 people thought the LHC would create a black hole that would destroy Earth?
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Jan 30, 2021 19:23
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Nitrousoxide posted:Even if you can, starting with your wanted end point of a negative mass particle, work backwards in the math to get the other properties of such a proposed particle, it doesn't mean it really exists. There are other reasons to think they don't exist, such as cosmic censorship hypothesis (as negative mass could potentially be used to expose the singularity of a black hole, or even traverse the einstein-rosen bridge into other universes or time reversed universes from the perspective of a white hole) and the various time paradoxes that can be created with FTL. I never feel convinced by that sort of argument by consequences. Like the assumption that something must be true if the opposite would be really hosed up, like, you don't get it man, it'd be REALLY hosed up. Like it would be really hosed up if we got naked singularities, personally, I'm against it. But that feels so irrelevant on if the universe's physics allow it. Like, that is the whole thing with schrodinger's cat. It was him saying "this can't be true because the opposite is just too hosed up" but then it just turned out it was true and things are that hosed up and it's just that the situation never comes up in real macro scale life so we keep living in a normal universe. Maybe someone someday will write a really good paper about using casmier force to pry open a black hole and write a thousand pages on how much that would ruin causality and it will all be true and real and just something that never happens in practice.
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Jan 30, 2021 19:24
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Trainee PornStar posted:I can't remember where I read it but am pretty sure that's bollocks.. It's sort of true, and sort of not. https://www.osti.gov/opennet/manhattan-project-history/Events/1945/trinity.htm
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Jan 30, 2021 19:39
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Rappaport posted:It's sort of true, and sort of not. https://www.osti.gov/opennet/manhattan-project-history/Events/1945/trinity.htm lol love the bit about Edward Teller applying liberal amounts of sunscreen 
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Jan 30, 2021 19:52
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I wanted to thank the thread for turning me onto John Godier. His podcast episode with Avi Loeb discussing why Oumuamua might be a probe or light sail rather than a hydrogen comet we've never seen anywhere else is fascinating.
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Jan 30, 2021 19:59
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Silver2195 posted:https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00249-y  if true. Ah well, we'll see what the original phosphine authors say when they review the results. And I mean if it's still inconclusive, that just means we need to get a probe there even more just to make absolutely sure. That's the thing - whatever the results, it's always another good reason to do more exploring.
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Jan 30, 2021 23:22
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Owling Howl posted:Random science guy idly speculates,, some pop sci mag sensationalizes it, random lunatics run with it and 50 years later people are like "see everybody used to believe in global cooling". The lunatics that called into Art Bell's show were a lot of fun though.
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Jan 31, 2021 06:03
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