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QuarkJets posted:Not a bad idea but I don't even remember what the white palace is needed to unlock, just Radiance? Is it possible to just do Godhome instead? Or is it necessary to do white palace in order to get shade cloak? You can get shade cloak without white palace. You can do godhome before white palace I believe as well. Yeah its pretty much just the endings that you need to do white palace for. E: Pantheon of Hallownest is locked behind it. But the rest is accessible.
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Jan 16, 2021 23:46
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Came back to this game to give it the respect I have gained for it through completing a bunch of metroidvanias I picked up during the winter sale by trying to platinum it, and I can finally say: PANTHEON OF THE SAGE DEFEATED! and without any incident I was immediately able to reach PV with full health. The gauntlet of GPZ-Umuu-Hornet2 is so much more prone to RNG bullshit (galien as well, I guess) compared to pantheon 4. Not that I want to have to fight zote before every vessel attempt (PV's wrecked me in godhome solo for the last hour) but it's jarring how much easier the run up to PV feels compared to the run up to Sly.
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Jan 20, 2021 05:49
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PV's secret is mastering the chances you have to use the nail arts and out-damaging them. Don't try to heal, there's no real pattern you can follow that guarantees even a single mask - and you probably won't dodge every hit either, not without dragging the fight out and giving them more opportunities to hit you. I mean, respect to the people who can beat him on radiant but I'm perfectly happy tapping out at Ascended.
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Jan 20, 2021 05:59
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While it's definitely not 100% safe to heal when he does the big white circle around him that damages and then spawns a few other smaller circles, I pretty much always found it worth the chance. I dunno why but most of the Nail Arts never really clicked with me; for me my main secret to him was getting used to the timing on dodging through his quick strike combo and even dodging through his parry > counterattack combo.
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Jan 20, 2021 06:11
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I beat everything in the game except the final pantheon and the only time I ever used a single nail art was the trial of the fool.
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Jan 20, 2021 06:37
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Nail Arts are way more useful for traversal. Getting a one-shot on something that wouldn't normally be one-shot can make a huge difference.
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Jan 20, 2021 06:56
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Pure Vessel is a great fight because it's very fast but also very rhythmic. He is never going to pull out some bullshit teleport move like Zote, he's very much about giving a very brief tell and then executing the corresponding move He is a lot like Nightmare King Grimm in that way. Learn the tells and a way to react to them and he becomes pretty straightforward, it just takes some practice
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Jan 20, 2021 09:40
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I looked up a few other runthroughs and I think most people playing this game don't bother with nail arts, so i did a quick video to make my case and also thrashed him in 51 seconds https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hSSAuv-DUHo
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Jan 20, 2021 18:16
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I’d have used nail arts more if there were a separate control for them. I don’t know if it was my controller or what but it felt like even chance whether nail art would work, come out as a regular attack, or do nothing at all. I really hope that Silksong moves to a separate button for strong/charge attacks if it keeps them.
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Jan 20, 2021 18:25
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I used the spin and the charge a bunch but I could never get the dash to work ever
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Jan 20, 2021 18:29
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skasion posted:I’d have used nail arts more if there were a separate control for them. I don’t know if it was my controller or what but it felt like even chance whether nail art would work, come out as a regular attack, or do nothing at all. I really hope that Silksong moves to a separate button for strong/charge attacks if it keeps them. Yea this was the problem. Half the time I’d try to use one it didn’t work correctly, so I just gave up on them completely.
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Jan 20, 2021 19:31
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https://twitter.com/Fangamer/status/1351980577637896192
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Jan 21, 2021 01:11
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Jan 21, 2021 01:13
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Utgardaloki posted:I looked up a few other runthroughs and I think most people playing this game don't bother with nail arts, so i did a quick video to make my case and also thrashed him in 51 seconds i mean you also got hit enough that without unbreakable heart you would be dead so i dunno that it's really a sustainable strategy e: to put my money where my mouth is, here's a vid of me taking 15 seconds longer to beat PV on radiant. learning his tells and the correct responses to dodge them is worth the effort imo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8AZFphh96w BBJoey fucked around with this message at 08:25 on Jan 21, 2021 |
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Jan 21, 2021 08:22
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saying to just damage race Pure Vessel seems weird to me, he's hard but he's one of the "fairest" bosses in the game in terms of patterns. i don't think there's a fixed rotation (at the very least, he has some attacks that punish you for certain behavior e.g. staying in the air too long and those will interrupt any other cycle that might exist) so you'll need to learn to match tells to attacks, but that's true of most bosses
Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 08:58 on Jan 22, 2021 |
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Jan 21, 2021 08:59
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Also you sure as hell don't wanna go into Absolute Radiance with one health!
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Jan 21, 2021 10:46
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BBJoey posted:i mean you also got hit enough that without unbreakable heart you would be dead so i dunno that it's really a sustainable strategy My video was about Nail Arts, I wasn't doing a speedrun or saying "don't try to dodge" lmao
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Jan 21, 2021 17:08
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Martman posted:Also you sure as hell don't wanna go into Absolute Radiance with one health! iirc you get full healed going into absolute radiance
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Jan 21, 2021 23:00
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QuarkJets posted:iirc you get full healed going into absolute radiance
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Jan 21, 2021 23:27
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So, I was afraid this might happen. I started Hollow Knight back in October and put in about 30 hours across the next month, but due to the holidays and life I haven't been able to play since until now really. However, even at the time I stopped playing I was starting to feel like the game was dragging on a bit long, already playing for twice as long as your typical Metroidvania, and I'm having hard time getting back into it. At this point I've defeated the three dreamers, obtained the shade cloak, and explored most of the map. I still have the Queen's Gardens and the Hive to explore, as well as the Colosseum, Godhome, and the White Palace--the last of which I'm only aware of due to frequent discussions of it in this thread. I don't know, it's a shame. Overall I do like the game, but definitely prefer exploration over bosses. I found the early areas to be particularly brilliant. Maybe I'll pick it back up in a few years when Silksong comes out.
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Jan 22, 2021 01:52
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Why not just go win the game? While it's impressive that you've somehow managed to avoid Queen's Gardens (I would have thought it mandatory, but apparently not), stuff like Godhome are *very* post-game extras. You don't have to grind 100% completion rate, you've completed all the major stuff and the final boss is waiting for you. The fight is right next to the starting village and is relatively easy as bosses are, go have fun.
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Jan 22, 2021 02:03
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Serephina posted:Why not just go win the game? Queen's Garden is only needed if you wanna kill Radiance. I beat my first game without exploring it too.
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Jan 22, 2021 02:08
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Yeah, just beat the game and if/when you get the itch for more the rest is there
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Jan 22, 2021 02:23
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ExcessBLarg! posted:So, I was afraid this might happen. I started Hollow Knight back in October and put in about 30 hours across the next month, but due to the holidays and life I haven't been able to play since until now really. However, even at the time I stopped playing I was starting to feel like the game was dragging on a bit long, already playing for twice as long as your typical Metroidvania, and I'm having hard time getting back into it. To continue on what the others have said, the Hive and Colosseum and especially Godhome are super optional, more like bonus content than anything. Do not sweat skipping it. 3 Dreamers is the only requirement to end the game, and you did it. Just go finish it. Go to the temple. You'll be glad you did. Although if you do like exploration... Hive/Gardens/Palace are calling.
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Jan 22, 2021 02:44
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I'll quibble a bit and say that while Gardens is totally an organic metroidvania exploration thing (as is end of world/colosseum), Hive is almost an easter egg in how well hidden the entrance is, and white palace is no joy the first time through. It IS interesting to see a person get so far through (3 dreamers!) and just lose interest.
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Jan 22, 2021 03:41
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Serephina posted:Why not just go win the game? Serephina posted:While it's impressive that you've somehow managed to avoid Queen's Gardens (I would have thought it mandatory, but apparently not), Serephina posted:It IS interesting to see a person get so far through (3 dreamers!) and just lose interest.
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Jan 22, 2021 03:49
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White Palace is a joy the first time and every time.
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Jan 22, 2021 03:49
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SirSamVimes posted:White Palace is a joy the first time and every time. 
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Jan 22, 2021 03:54
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SirSamVimes posted:White Palace is a joy the first time and every time. White Palace is fun when you actually approach it correctly but the fact that every couple of pages someone gives the wrong, actively counter-productive advice on how to make it tolerable and then someone else corrects them and it starts a fight kind of speaks to a failure of execution / discoverability. It really ought to have more checkpoints and a built-in way to heal yourself between attempts, even if that's technically less elegant than using universal mechanics. Platforming works best when you can try again instantly on a failure and even the preferred charmset for White Palace doesn't actually deliver on that.
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Jan 22, 2021 03:56
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I did not care for the White Palace my first go around but then when I went back to the game last year I was somehow able to do the Path of Pain so now I don't know what my problem was.
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Jan 22, 2021 04:08
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Nate RFB posted:I did not care for the White Palace my first go around but then when I went back to the game last year I was somehow able to do the Path of Pain so now I don't know what my problem was. If I had to put my finger on my least favorite part of it, its having little concept of how far you are from a checkpoint or how much more of it there is to go at all. Sometimes you think you're done and then the screen just transitions up into a new area and you're like "are you kidding? Just let me get out of here  "Overall though I don't hate it, I find myself using shortcuts to skip a whole area and feeling really clever for it.
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Jan 22, 2021 05:08
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In most of Hollow Knight, there are a ton of overlapping incentives and threats that inform your behavior. Like, you run across an enemy and you think, do I fight this, or just run past, or maybe even retreat? How annoying is it to fight? Do I need geo? Do I have a ton of geo I don't want to lose if I mess up? Do I need soul? If you retreat, at almost any stage of the game barring the very end (where you're at your most confident and capable anyways) you have a lot of directions you could go in; you can always leave something you're stuck on. The fact that you're managing a bunch of different resources means that you won't always feel like you have to treat a particular situation in the same way. Usually there's extremely little cost for retreating, too. The game gives you a million options and only very gentle pressure to take any given one of them unless you ignore it for ages and ages and finally hit a bottleneck. In White Palace, none of this is true any more. Retreating means losing tons of progress. The only obstacle is platforming. Most of your upgrades don't matter, and you're harshly punished for not taking certain, specific upgrades which are themselves obscure, expensive, or difficult to obtain. Progress is entirely linear. It's still a really fun challenge but for a while there the structure of the game completely changes -- and crucially, Hollow Knight's systems as a whole are not really designed to mesh with it. The problem isn't that it's harder. Hard is good. The problem is that you have to suddenly re-adjust your priorities in play with very little warning and very little overt help from the game and its systems. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Jan 22, 2021 |
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Jan 22, 2021 05:17
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Jan 22, 2021 05:17
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:In White Palace, none of this is true any more. Retreating means losing tons of progress. The only obstacle is platforming. Most of your upgrades don't matter, and you're harshly punished for not taking certain, specific upgrades which are themselves obscure, expensive, or difficult to obtain. Progress is entirely linear. I agree with a lot of this but in some sense you DO have an option in the White Palace: mastering platforming to beat it or mastering exploration to cheese it. It’s the last real challenge before the original finale, so I’m cool with it being a final exam
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Jan 22, 2021 05:34
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What specific upgrades do you need to best white palace? Is it even possible to get there without double jump and mantis claw? I used longnail and mark of pride to cheese a few jumps but I doubt they were necessary
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Jan 22, 2021 06:13
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The health regen charms can make it a lot easier but more tedious
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Jan 22, 2021 06:16
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Utgardaloki posted:What specific upgrades do you need to best white palace? Is it even possible to get there without double jump and mantis claw? Deep Focus + Grubsong makes the experience much better, and Grubberfly's Elegy increases the effectiveness of Grubsong if you want to take it even further
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Jan 22, 2021 06:17
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:In most of Hollow Knight, there are a ton of overlapping incentives and threats that inform your behavior. Like, you run across an enemy and you think, do I fight this, or just run past, or maybe even retreat? How annoying is it to fight? Do I need geo? Do I have a ton of geo I don't want to lose if I mess up? Do I need soul? This is a correct post except for the part where you claim it's a fun challenge, when in fact it's just 1-2 hours of tedious waste of time.
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Jan 22, 2021 08:40
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Mymla posted:This is a correct post except for the part where you claim it's a fun challenge, when in fact it's just 1-2 hours of tedious waste of time. 
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Jan 22, 2021 08:48
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I've beaten it twice. There are other reasons someone might dislike something than "it's too hard".
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Jan 22, 2021 08:52
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