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Rom is a great choice for reforming Ferengi Society. He's not an idiot, he was a "bad ferengi" because lacked confidence and gave a poo poo about other people. I don't think you can get a better pick for reform than a Nagus that is capable of respecting women, a successful labor leader and someone who personally understands that Ferengi culture is squandering potential by only rewarding a specific set of skills.
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Jan 20, 2021 18:30
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Infidelicious posted:Rom is a great choice for reforming Ferengi Society. I got Trekonomics for Christmas, and it was pretty good, especially the chapter on the Ferengi (which are referred to as 'Feregnis' for some reason - I guess the editor may not have been a Trekkie). You can definitely tell it was written pre-Discovery, though.
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Jan 20, 2021 20:59
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HopperUK posted:Tain must be one of the worse dads in Trek. Like 'I should have murdered your mother before you were born' is apparently something he said over and over again. He didn't even tell Garak all his remaining political secrets on his deathbed! If Garak is worthy of receiving those secrets then he'll already have discovered them.
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Jan 20, 2021 21:09
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Cat Hatter posted:If Garak is worthy of receiving those secrets then he'll already have discovered them. Oh sure, but it's *traditional*.
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Jan 20, 2021 23:28
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Sir Lemming posted:Just watched DS9 "Tacking Into The Wind" and it's probably the best single hour of the finale arc. Highlights include: tacking into the wind probably has the most well written progression of the plot but i still think extreme measures is my favourite episode just because its the perfect culmination of miles/bashir, the best and most perfect friendship in all of star trek HopperUK posted:Apparently Kira, Damar and Garak's actors really wanted a scene where they addressed the whole thing where Damar murdered Ziyal but there just wasn't room for it in the script. It's too bad. its kind of bizarre because the dukat/winn scenes take up so much loving time and are honestly the worst part of that 8 episode run Sir Lemming posted:Still, the aforementioned scene and a few others like it go a long way towards at least making sure it doesn't feel totally ridiculous for them to be working with each other. They are not suddenly okay with him, but they do see that he can be changed, and without immediately accepting him they're trying to push him in the right direction. its not just the acting its the direction too. garak presenting the information casually but damar being the one to say it, the focus on kira's building realization that she can crush him but probably shouldnt, the music getting really tense and damar approaching angrily as if a real confrontation is going to happen and then it defusing is all so insanely good. even the way they have the most confrontational character in the show quickly back down because she clearly crossed the line Verviticus fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Jan 21, 2021 |
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Jan 21, 2021 00:09
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HopperUK posted:It was still naughty! That Damar, what a rascal. He's probably my third favourite DS9 character. apparently they had a lot of his arc planned out to some extent as far back as "fall from grace" which is pretty impressive
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Jan 21, 2021 00:19
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Verviticus posted:its kind of bizarre because the dukat/winn scenes take up so much loving time and are honestly the worst part of that 8 episode run
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Jan 21, 2021 00:21
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yeah its a real loving shame they didnt have her doing what she does best, which is drop a backhanded fake compliment or barb with every single line, while smiling the conversation between her and beriel/kira at the start of the second season is so good. literally everything she says screams "i am a piece of poo poo and i hate you" and shes literally never not happy about it. instead those scenes are just like 30 mins of very slow bad romance and a predictable, boring betrayal of her 'principles'. i think maybe to some extent its just two good characters that dont mesh bouncing off each other
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Jan 21, 2021 00:23
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Verviticus posted:yeah its a real loving shame they didnt have her doing what she does best, which is drop a backhanded fake compliment or barb with every single line, while smiling Dukat/Winn seems like something even fan writers would be itching to write dialogue for like the Spock/Q thing but then they just make it as uninteresting as possible somehow.
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Jan 21, 2021 01:11
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Cat Hatter posted:Dukat/Winn seems like something even fan writers would be itching to write dialogue for like the Spock/Q thing but then they just make it as uninteresting as possible somehow. I think it falls a bit flat because Dukat is pretending to be someone else, and Winn isn't acting like Winn acts in any other part of the show... it really is like 2 completely different characters.
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Jan 21, 2021 01:34
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I think cardassians saying they value family and being shown to be absolute monsters to their children is pretty consistent with other groups that have righteously claimed to value family.
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Jan 21, 2021 01:53
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The one good think about the Winn/Dukat subplot is when Winn has her little crisis of faith and begs Kira to help her find redemption and she just rejects what Kira says because she's too selfish to let go of power.
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Jan 21, 2021 02:00
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Nodosaur posted:The one good think about the Winn/Dukat subplot is when Winn has her little crisis of faith and begs Kira to help her find redemption and she just rejects what Kira says because she's too selfish to let go of power. Kira immediately just says 'well I think you should quit for the good of Bajor' and Winn is not having any of that. She goes an immediate 180 from being lost to being confident that she will stand her ground.
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Jan 21, 2021 02:55
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Powered Descent posted:I've always liked to think that Kellam de Forest and DeForest Kelley embraced the humorous side of the coincidence, and made every obvious name joke they could think of. My head canon is he looks exactly like DeForest but with his hair parted the opposite way.
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Jan 21, 2021 05:00
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Astroman posted:My head canon is he looks exactly like DeForest but with his hair parted the opposite way. Chasing each other for eternity across the Desilu backlots.
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Jan 21, 2021 06:24
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If Dukat and Winn played their confrontation the way they played the rest of the show, they'd turn into the marriage of Lord Zedd and Rita Repulsa, so one of them had to try taking the moral high ground. Both of their characters are kinda subordinated by the needs of the plot though, because the show "needed" to go all-in on Bajoran religion being 100% true and literal if it was gonna resolve Sisko's position as a prophet and give him a finale to be emotionally invested in because the writers felt he didn't have a enough of a personal stake in the Dominion war. So much of the galactic landscape is resolved in the end of DS9 that you can kinda see how people weren't that eager to return to the end of the Trek timeline. Bajor's fine, the Prophets no longer have an interest in the material world, the Dominon was beaten back, Cardassian fascism has been ended, the Ferengi got a heel turn out of nowhere, the Klingons have competent, Federation-friendly leadership, and the only big established threat left in the quadrant is the Romulan empire that just blows up when the next movie rolls around.
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Jan 21, 2021 06:50
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SlothfulCobra posted:If Dukat and Winn played their confrontation the way they played the rest of the show, they'd turn into the marriage of Lord Zedd and Rita Repulsa, so one of them had to try taking the moral high ground. I think you mean face turn, which is where a bad guy becomes a good guy. A heel turn is when a good guy becomes a bad guy.
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Jan 21, 2021 11:01
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Cat Hatter posted:I think you mean face turn, which is where a bad guy becomes a good guy. A heel turn is when a good guy becomes a bad guy. maybe op is a libertarian
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Jan 21, 2021 11:34
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SlothfulCobra posted:So much of the galactic landscape is resolved in the end of DS9 that you can kinda see how people weren't that eager to return to the end of the Trek timeline. Bajor's fine, the Prophets no longer have an interest in the material world, the Dominon was beaten back, Cardassian fascism has been ended, the Ferengi got a heel turn out of nowhere, the Klingons have competent, Federation-friendly leadership, and the only big established threat left in the quadrant is the Romulan empire that just blows up when the next movie rolls around. I think the humbled and devastated Cardassia could be a huge story opportunity, and then you've got the Odo-fied Dominion still ostensibly in charge of a whole quadrant that's been brutally subjugated for who knows how long - what does that look like? Does the Dominion crumble into bits or do the Founders start trying to reverse all the damage they've done? Or both? And then there's the supposedly cuddly new Ferengi empire who may be suddenly perceived as actually trustworthy allies by the Federation - what does that do? Does it lead to an insidious pro-capitalism movement within the Federation? Beyond that, maybe a few of these remarkably sentient holograms running around start organizing for their rights after centuries of subjugation? There's so much that could be done.
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Jan 21, 2021 19:54
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I've started a rewatch of TNG, after about 15 years of not watching. I skipped S1, watched a couple of choice episodes of S2 such as the first encounter with the Borg and Riker doing an internship on the Klingon ship and then started with S3 where I will stay until the end. It's just as much fun as it was then. Season 3 still has some cheese episodes here and there but overall it's a fun watch. I just saw S3E14, A Matter of Perspective. It's a bit weird, they're doing a courtroom/holodeck thing where witnesses each have their own version of the events, played out in the holodeck. But in the end it is never made clear which version was the correct one. It's problematic because one of the versions has Riker being an attempted rapist. According to counselor Troi, the accuser wasn't lying about the attempt but neither was Riker? So... is Riker a rapist or not? In the end, everyone seems to be just ok with the events and nothing is investigated further. The intro was pretty funny though, it has Data critiquing Picard's sucky painting. edit: vvv, that one I saw as well. John F Bennett fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Jan 21, 2021 |
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Jan 21, 2021 20:45
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Go back for the S2 episode Measure of a Man, it's seriously one of the best episodes of the show
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Jan 21, 2021 21:01
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Just watch the show you cowards.
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Jan 21, 2021 21:02
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Any episode where Riker has the beard you should watch
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Jan 21, 2021 21:03
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multijoe posted:Any episode where Riker has the beard you should watch Yup. For as lovely a site TvTropes is/was, their whole growing the beard thing is accurate.
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Jan 21, 2021 21:25
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Boxturret posted:Just watch the show you cowards. A full rewatch or nothing
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Jan 21, 2021 21:31
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I can do full rewatches of TOS, TNG, DS9, or ENT just fine, but Voyager has a lot of chunks where it just feels like my head is being dragged along concrete.
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Jan 21, 2021 21:37
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Voyager just puts me to sleep. I’ve been rewatching TOS as I puppysit each night and even the “bad” episodes are still interesting in some way. Except Day of The Dove, that one is just visual Ambien.
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Jan 21, 2021 21:50
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Boxturret posted:Just watch the show you cowards.
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Jan 21, 2021 22:25
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Except Day of The Dove, that one is just visual Ambien.
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Jan 21, 2021 23:04
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DS9 is getting wild. And so many people are horny for Kira. Worf owns/sucks in his unique way. O'Brien gets owned 24/7. Show owns.
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Jan 21, 2021 23:32
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O’Brien’s reaction to seeing himself in Visionary is pretty much “oh god what bullshit is about to happen to me now”
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Jan 21, 2021 23:36
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I just saw the TNG where Data meets his mom and finds out she's a robot duplicate made by his dad. When I saw that episode as a kid, I didn't realize that when Data watches the recording left in a disc on her brain and talks to his dad, he mentions that she left him. Doesn't that mean that he added the recording explaining that she is a secret robot after she dumped him? Like he turned her off while she was packing her bags and stuck that recording in there and then turned her back on? All through the ending I was debating whether or not the show is trying to present a plausible reading that Data's father is a weak scumbag who made an indefensible, selfish choice in recreating his dead wife because he didn't want to be alone, but I don't know that the reactions of the other characters support it, as they seem to think that was a fine thing to do. Maybe I'm not giving the writers enough credit, but Spiner doesn't really play the guy either like he's thought about the ethical implications of what he did or like he's selfish and rationalizing a bad choice.
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Jan 21, 2021 23:53
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:I just saw the TNG where Data meets his mom and finds out she's a robot duplicate made by his dad. When I saw that episode as a kid, I didn't realize that when Data watches the recording left in a disc on her brain and talks to his dad, he mentions that she left him. Data's creator is a dick yes.
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Jan 21, 2021 23:56
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Cat Hatter posted:I think you mean face turn, which is where a bad guy becomes a good guy. A heel turn is when a good guy becomes a bad guy. I legit did not realize this was a wrestling term and thought "heel turn" was turning your back on your allies by... spinning on your heels, I guess? English has enough weird idioms I didn't think about it too hard.
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Jan 22, 2021 00:26
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I was watching the Voyager episode 'Non Sequitur' last night, and God drat do they reuse a LOT of the TOS film shots of San Francisco to save money. There is also a very quick insert of the TMP shuttle scene near the Golden Gate bridge that looks like dogshit with the way they put it in to the episode.
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Jan 22, 2021 00:35
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Zedd posted:Yup. "Growing the beard" isnt some original thought tvtropes had, it's from the Trek fandom itself.
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Jan 22, 2021 01:15
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Zedd posted:And so many people are horny for Kira. Worf owns/sucks in his unique way. O'Brien gets owned 24/7. the three axioms of ds9
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Jan 22, 2021 02:38
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Nodosaur posted:Sisko's ultimate task being to tackle Dukat into a big pit is pretty freaking lame.
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Jan 22, 2021 02:43
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The Prophets/Pah Wraith battle stuff was always lame. Remember the episode where Jake and Kira get possessed by one of each to conduct 'the final battle' or whatever? It was awful. IMO the only good Pah Wraith-related episodes are the one where a Pah Wraith possesses Keiko, and the one where Dukat starts his cult.
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Jan 22, 2021 03:34
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FlamingLiberal posted:The Prophets/Pah Wraith battle stuff was always lame. Remember the episode where Jake and Kira get possessed by one of each to conduct 'the final battle' or whatever? It was awful. Nah I love that episode because of Kai Winn trying desperately to get prophet Kira's attention and being ice cold ignored, then pressing the button to just get rid of em all. Also the greatest generation have this episode a great mental image that when Ben took the artifact it triggered a series of traps and there are boulders rolling all over Bajor. Also I love Kira with a wind machine blowing at her 24/7 and "I am Zuul" make up
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Jan 22, 2021 03:41
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