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Orcs and Ostriches posted:FFXIV is 4 single player games where you see other players doing their own single player things, with the occasional group activity. I wish FFXIV could just be an offline single player game, with all of the clothing customization, and housing stuff, it would be a lot of fun. This will never in a million years happen though so I try not to think about it.
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Jan 21, 2021 21:06
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I said come in! posted:I wish FFXIV could just be an offline single player game, with all of the clothing customization, and housing stuff, it would be a lot of fun. This will never in a million years happen though so I try not to think about it. I'd love it. Just inject a bunch of trusts where there used to be group content and people (like me) would have a ton of fun. Make all the crafted gear buyable with tokens you get for turning in your own crafted gear.
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Jan 21, 2021 21:07
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I would actually be super happy with a single player RPG that used that sort of tab targetting, hotkey combat. RPGs can't or don't pull off 3d action combat well without devolving into menus anyways. I just think of something like FF12 where you'd have your programmable AIs party members, but still something for you to do on the controlled character. Orcs and Ostriches fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Jan 21, 2021 |
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Jan 21, 2021 21:11
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CuddleCryptid posted:The armory system is the single best part of the game. I dont think a lot of mmo devs understand how much benefit that having someone invest in a single character rather than a new one for every class adds to it. You don't end up having a paladin named "healysword" with no secondary decor or achievements because he's your sixth toon and you rolled him just for instances. otoh guild wars 2 is all about rolling a bunch of alts for a bunch of achievements, and i only have 2 capped classes other than my main because i got free level 80 tokens with the expansions lmbo
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Jan 21, 2021 21:12
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Yeah the armory system is great and it + GW2 making almost everything from currencies to achievements to cosmetics account-wide are so, so good, but I prefer GW2's system largely because I like having alts of different races and classes, and getting an alt up and going in FF14 is the loving worst.
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Jan 21, 2021 22:46
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:I would actually be super happy with a single player MMO that used that sort of tab targetting, hotkey combat. RPGs can't or don't pull off 3d action combat well without devolving into menus anyways.
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Jan 21, 2021 23:09
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Jackard posted:Guild Wars 1? I'm actually an idiot and meant single player RPG, and not single player MMO.
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Jan 21, 2021 23:21
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Groovelord Neato posted:I played Final Fantasy XIV up until I think level 30 and it was indistinguishable from a single player game. It was like I was on cruise control the entire time. 14 is ungodly boring and slow until level 50. The first 30 levels in particular are designed to be like a 20 hour tutorial for people who have never even heard of the word "MMO" before. I have no clue why they thought that was necessary or a good idea. Everybody who likes 14 will tell you that it doesn't really begin until at least 40, and then each expansion gets better than the last. But if you want to join up at the latest expansion, you have to pay like $50 on top of the $60 game, $30 expansions and $10 monthly fees. They need to do like WoW and start letting people boost characters to the latest xpac for free if they buy it. Orcs and Ostriches posted:I would actually be super happy with a single player RPG that used that sort of tab targetting, hotkey combat. RPGs can't or don't pull off 3d action combat well without devolving into menus anyways. FFXII exists! And most people didn't like the combat 
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Jan 21, 2021 23:29
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jokes posted:I guess I don't know what you think gameplay in WoW is, but it's just quests and dungeons and raids. And pvp I guess. I play WoW for the PvP
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Jan 21, 2021 23:50
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:I would actually be super happy with a single player RPG that used that sort of tab targetting, hotkey combat. RPGs can't or don't pull off 3d action combat well without devolving into menus anyways. The first Dragon Age game was kinda like this I guess
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Jan 21, 2021 23:51
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Zaphod42 posted:14 is ungodly boring and slow until level 50. The first 30 levels in particular are designed to be like a 20 hour tutorial for people who have never even heard of the word "MMO" before. I posted in the thread and got a bunch of people mad because I said if I'm playing an MMO and I'm skipping through a ton of cutscenes you did something wrong.
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Jan 22, 2021 03:46
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Zaphod42 posted:14 is ungodly boring and slow until level 50. The first 30 levels in particular are designed to be like a 20 hour tutorial for people who have never even heard of the word "MMO" before. i dunno, it seems to be the a mmo that's getting newbies regularly? there's a fuckton of newbies at all levels, which is a lot more than can be said about pretty much any other mmo that isn't less than 3 months old. i get wanting to skip the tutorial but "why is a tutorial a good idea" sure is a take lmao
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Jan 22, 2021 04:10
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There’s a lot of new people joining and sticking with it, but WoW people specifically coming over are going to be loving pissed that there’s a cool 5,000 quests before you unlock your first dungeon.
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Jan 22, 2021 04:14
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FFXIV 1.0 was a poo poo but pretty MMO. The 2.0 overhaul turned it into a passable but pretty MMO and was a miraculous feat of project management to get it to that state. In order to turn it into a 40 hour experience they literally timed quests to take 9 minutes on average. When they got the first expansion out they managed to keep it pretty but give it a good actual story too. So yeah, there's no getting around the fact that it feels pretty crappy between hour 2 and hour 30 and I don't blame anyone who says "I would like a game that's fun from hour 1, actually". There's also zero build variety other than choosing your class, for those that care about such things. Since world firsts in difficult raids basically this means that all classes of a given type (tanks, healers, etc) have parity with each other and playing your class well means doing your set rotation while trying not to flub it as you dodge AoEs and do mechanics and so on. It's very functional but it's definitely not to everyone's taste.
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Jan 22, 2021 04:20
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Truga posted:i dunno, it seems to be the a mmo that's getting newbies regularly? there's a fuckton of newbies at all levels, which is a lot more than can be said about pretty much any other mmo that isn't less than 3 months old. I'm not sure that you can label people in low level areas as "newbies" automatically though, since you have to start the entire thing over again when changing classes. Plus I'm pretty sure you have to actually kill God in the game before the green newbie icon disappears. In game chat is dead and buried so you just end up running past people without knowing who they even are.
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Jan 22, 2021 04:56
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Truga posted:i dunno, it seems to be the a mmo that's getting newbies regularly? there's a fuckton of newbies at all levels, which is a lot more than can be said about pretty much any other mmo that isn't less than 3 months old. A tutorial is fine, but a forced 20-hour tutorial is crazypants. Especially when so much of the tutorial is just 'Push button to attack' and not actually 'here's how you juggle your class meter and do a rotation' which ... it doesn't really teach well. Any adult can figure out how to use the 2 hotkeys you have in like 4 minutes, and then its grinding until you get to like 30 at which point you finally get 5-6 buttons to press and things start getting more mechanically interesting. They just don't really give you any player agency for a looooong time. At high level raids as a NIN things got extremely loving John Madden in the best way (NIN is my favorite class of any MMO because of how the ninjutsu works) but for soooo long you don't have ANY of the moves that makes that fun, and you're just spamming the same 1 damage attack over and over and over and oh my god let me do something else! Giving the full moveset at level 1 would be overwhelming but they need to toss more moves at you faster. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Jan 22, 2021 |
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Jan 22, 2021 05:02
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Any recent (last year or two) MMOs released worth giving a go? I've put a ton of hours into GW2/FFXIV, so looking to venture into something else for a bit. Tried BDO when it launched, but didn't enjoy it for whatever reason at the time (probably p2w or something). Also tried ESO for a few hours but wasn't feeling it.
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Jan 22, 2021 05:17
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kloa posted:Any recent (last year or two) MMOs released worth giving a go? this is not me being like bitter about MMOs, unironically no, there aren't any in the last couple years worth it
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Jan 22, 2021 05:18
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:I'm actually an idiot and meant single player RPG, and not single player MMO.
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Jan 22, 2021 05:19
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kloa posted:Any recent (last year or two) MMOs released worth giving a go? You already hit the big ones. Things like Destiny and Anthem are what we're getting from now on, they're a lot easier to design for and have more mass market appeal.
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Jan 22, 2021 05:20
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Bummer on the MMO front. I did play Anthem for maybe 4 hours and then never cared to touch it again  Was hoping Torchlight 3 would turn out well, since I miss a good ARPG, but seems it was mobile-ized and didn't turn out well. How's MU Legend for a ARPG/MMO? Was hoping Lost Ark would be in NA by now but hopefully it'll be here later this year.
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Jan 22, 2021 05:26
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I’m still pissed about Torchlight III.
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Jan 22, 2021 05:55
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Jackard posted:Are you familiar with GW1 at all? Because its not big on the mmo aspect, you could easily treat it as a single-player rpg.
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Jan 22, 2021 05:55
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Kaysette posted:I’m still pissed about Torchlight III. god that game is so horrible
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Jan 22, 2021 06:48
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I’m so relieved people are talking openly about how bad the first hundred or so hours of FFXIV are because I thought I was crazy. Not only are the first 50 levels a loving slog but you can’t even do them in a group with friends. I got a few folks to try this game and we planned to level together... needless to say they all dropped it after one session. I played through heavensward, paid for a skip so I could bypass storm blood and “get to the good stuff” then just gave up and went back to WoW and Albion.
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Jan 22, 2021 14:06
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Kaysette posted:I’m still pissed about Torchlight III. What the hell even happened to that studio, anyway? They went from torchlight 1, a fun and well regarded game that had people looking forward to more of it, then torchlight 2 was bad but I guess mods kinda fixed some of its problems eventually? Then the third one which was some sort of MMO that they realized was a horrible idea and tried to backpedal and make a single player arpg which is what everyone wanted all along? But then they hosed up that part too? 
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Jan 22, 2021 14:58
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J posted:What the hell even happened to that studio, anyway? They went from torchlight 1, a fun and well regarded game that had people looking forward to more of it, then torchlight 2 was bad but I guess mods kinda fixed some of its problems eventually? Then the third one which was some sort of MMO that they realized was a horrible idea and tried to backpedal and make a single player arpg which is what everyone wanted all along? But then they hosed up that part too? Flooded market I would imagine. When torchlight first came out it was basically that or Diablo. Now you can't go six feet without tripping over one of those games, especially licensed ones. Minecraft has one, Warhammer has one for both fantasy and 40k, and so on.
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Jan 22, 2021 15:25
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CuddleCryptid posted:Flooded market I would imagine. When torchlight first came out it was basically that or Diablo. Now you can't go six feet without tripping over one of those games, especially licensed ones. Minecraft has one, Warhammer has one for both fantasy and 40k, and so on. I feel like Path of Exile really took a huge chunk out of the ARPG market by offering a free experience where people pay for cosmetics and inventory space. Grinders friggin' love that game - I've got several friends who've dropped hundreds just for stash tabs for legendary items or whatever. Every time Grinding Gear drops new content or start a new season or whatever, POE sits within the top 10 games on Steam.
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Jan 22, 2021 17:01
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CuddleCryptid posted:Flooded market I would imagine. When torchlight first came out it was basically that or Diablo. Now you can't go six feet without tripping over one of those games, especially licensed ones. Minecraft has one, Warhammer has one for both fantasy and 40k, and so on. Yeah but almost all of them are poo poo. The licensed ones are especially poo poo. Wolcen was a good time but buggy as gently caress.
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Jan 22, 2021 17:08
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cmdrk posted:I feel like Path of Exile really took a huge chunk out of the ARPG market by offering a free experience where people pay for cosmetics and inventory space. Grinders friggin' love that game - I've got several friends who've dropped hundreds just for stash tabs for legendary items or whatever. Every time Grinding Gear drops new content or start a new season or whatever, POE sits within the top 10 games on Steam. yeah path of exile has that niche cornered. it doesn't help that they've been at it for like 7 years now, and while league mechanics are kinda hit or miss, with all the content from previous leagues also incorporated into the game to some extent, there's so much weird poo poo to do it takes a few hundred hours before it starts getting repetitive. i've been kinda over it for a while, but when i get the arpg itch again, i know exactly what game to turn to to both get something familiar, and also a ton of new poo poo in it. and i'll still have my stash tabs waiting (though i only spent 30 or 40 bucks on the game)
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Jan 22, 2021 17:14
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J posted:What the hell even happened to that studio, anyway? They went from torchlight 1, a fun and well regarded game that had people looking forward to more of it, then torchlight 2 was bad but I guess mods kinda fixed some of its problems eventually? Then the third one which was some sort of MMO that they realized was a horrible idea and tried to backpedal and make a single player arpg which is what everyone wanted all along? But then they hosed up that part too? Torchlight was always supposed to be an MMO. When Hellgate: London killed Flagship Studios, the separate sub-studio Flagship Seattle also lost the rights to Mythos, the MMOARPG they were working on. Flagship Seattle reformed as Runic but had to start from scratch and released Torchlight as a single player game instead. Torchlight 2 was supposed to be a testbed for multiplayer in preparation for the MMO, but after TL2 no one wanted to work on it anymore and then Travis Baldree and Erich Schaefer left because they wanted to make Rebel Galaxy and the rest of Runic didn't. Instead they spent 5 years making Hob, which no one bought, and were shut down 2 months after it released. Torchlight 3 is made by a new studio formed by Max Schaefer, and he bought in a bunch of ex-Blizzard North people, who are also ex-Flagship Studios people, making this the second time those developers managed to kill the same game.
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Jan 22, 2021 17:43
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Pandaal posted:I’m so relieved people are talking openly about how bad the first hundred or so hours of FFXIV are because I thought I was crazy. Not only are the first 50 levels a loving slog but you can’t even do them in a group with friends. I got a few folks to try this game and we planned to level together... needless to say they all dropped it after one session. I played through heavensward, paid for a skip so I could bypass storm blood and “get to the good stuff” then just gave up and went back to WoW and Albion. Not trying to defend the MSQ slog, because it is a lot of stuff to get through (which I've heard they're revamping?), but if you're just rushing to the endgame or "good stuff" then yeah it's not gonna be fun. There's so much to do along the way that I really loved my first couple hundred hours in FFXIV playing Triple Triad, Golden Saucer mini-games/lottery, fashion, and a bunch of other stuff. Hell, even just taking a break to fish in a new area while doing side quests and stuff was fun for me. Just wanted to throw it out there if you ever want to give it another go at some point. Typing this out is making me want to re-sub to just go fish and check out the new fashion stuff 
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Jan 22, 2021 18:31
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FFXIV is a game that you play while you are also doing something else for the first initial bit. Its actually really serene and relaxing. And then suddenly you get into like, insane end game dungeons and dodging AOEs and trying not to drop your omega damage combo / keep that ONE loving DPS FROM DYING WHILE STANDING IN AN AOE gently caress YOU I ALSO PLAY BLM YOU CAN MOVE JUST LIKE ANY OTHER CLASS im not angry
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Jan 22, 2021 18:55
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Edit: removed
halokiller fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Jan 22, 2021 |
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Jan 22, 2021 21:40
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FF14 and GW2 are probably the two MMOs I've played most though I played a solid amount of post-Cata WoW (still absolutely nothing compared to people who actually play Wow) But all of those have the same problem. I have to walk/fly/ride for loving ages before I get anywhere. I swear 80% of actual playtime in any given MMO is just walking to the place where the actual gameplay is. Out of combat I should be moving at hyper-speed, not slowly plodding along for ten seconds to get to the next bear for the rear end I need to cut off it. edit: i guess I want MMOs that play more like Diablolikes where I'm mowing down hundred of baddies on my way to the next town. On my way I /wave to the guy who's temporarily parted the wave for me as he approaches from the opposite direction. bewilderment fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Jan 23, 2021 |
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Jan 23, 2021 01:15
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bewilderment posted:FF14 and GW2 are probably the two MMOs I've played most though I played a solid amount of post-Cata WoW (still absolutely nothing compared to people who actually play Wow) That'd be sweet.
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Jan 23, 2021 01:35
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bewilderment posted:I have to walk/fly/ride for loving ages before I get anywhere. I swear 80% of actual playtime in any given MMO is just walking to the place where the actual gameplay is. WoW travel is a breeze compared to something like EverQuest.
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Jan 23, 2021 01:42
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EQ travel taking literal hours is what makes the world feel real and huge in scale in ways modern games don't. It was about the journey, not the destination. Also by design EQ makes you rely on others, if you get a druid or wiz teleport and SoW nothing takes very long at all. But I also understand wanting more action in an mmo. In wow the way quests and spawns play out, it makes you actively despise other players for taking your spawns away and making it take even longer to get your 20 bear asses. Bad balance.
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Jan 23, 2021 01:52
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bewilderment posted:i guess I want MMOs that play more like Diablolikes where I'm mowing down hundred of baddies on my way to the next town. On my way I /wave to the guy who's temporarily parted the wave for me as he approaches from the opposite direction. this is literally the only reason i spent years in ragnarok online even as "better" mmos like wow were out. virgin wow: rpg quests in a mmo! 3d (lmao)! blizzard! instances! chad ro: can kill 40 mobs at a time every 20 seconds, superior anime sprites, random gamedev nobody's ever heard about before, everything important happens on the overworld as it should in MMOs path of exile is a lot less clunky about that kind of game now, but it's basically single player 99% of the time even if you wanna play with friends, due to how progress works on maps. i wish someone competent copied RO already because the same gameplay loop but without the clunkiness and inherent lag of that game would be insanely good. some of my idiot friends started RO during the first corona lockdown, and they managed to get me to install and run it and as soon as i logged in and left and right a couple times, remembered, logged out, and never ran the game again lmao also, if you take more than 20 seconds to get anywhere in gw2, you either don't have your roller or your griffon (or both?) in which case, goondolences. i do extremely wish other games would copy gw2's "mounting/dismounting is instant" too, it speeds up the game so much
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Jan 23, 2021 02:55
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Zaphod42 posted:EQ travel taking literal hours is what makes the world feel real and huge in scale in ways modern games don't. Yeah it's something I miss. You'd also spend a lot longer in areas leveling so you'd become well known as a good group member.
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Jan 23, 2021 03:00
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