Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
(Thread IKs: fart simpson)
 
  • Post
  • Reply
indigi
Jul 20, 2004

how can we not talk about family
when family's all that we got?

this sounds terrible

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

fart simpson
Jul 2, 2005

DEATH TO AMERICA
:xickos:

indigi posted:

this sounds terrible

it may not be a perfect system, but it's still the best one there is.

stephenthinkpad
Jan 2, 2020
When I did a couple root canal in GZ 10 years ago it was cheap as gently caress. It was like a couple hundreds RMB. Here in the US you would have to pay $300 just for the copay. And you probably have to spread it out to 2 years because your health insurance can't cover it.

fart simpson
Jul 2, 2005

DEATH TO AMERICA
:xickos:

yeah it's generally a lot cheaper than american healthcare prices. i went in to see a dermatologist a year ago and got diagnosed with shingles, they prescribed me some antivirals and other stuff, like 4 different medicines. total bill including the medicines was about $25

Happy Thread
Jul 10, 2005

by Fluffdaddy
Plaster Town Cop

fart simpson posted:

the normal insurance here is like a subsidized health savings account and generally you have to pay up front or they won’t treat you.

I forgot to mention this, the most important part, lol. You pay up front. If you can't, you die.

Far worse than the US healthcare system in that specific regard. Here, at least they have to pretend to treat you before shoving you out the door if you show up at the ER.... even if it usually happens on the brink of death because you typically couldn't afford prevention. That's an improvement, although debt is a separate issue.

A 17 year old streamer kid recently died in China, of malnutrition and from complications from diabetes type 1. They were super poor and abandoned by their family in early childhood after the parents divorced. The streamer kid tried to raise crowd funding on shuidichou.com to pay for their diabetes treatment. But in order to qualify they would have had to provide paperwork up front documenting their condition, which required a doctor visit, which they could not afford in the first place. A whole bunch of people were sad when they died.

Happy Thread has issued a correction as of 04:18 on Jan 23, 2021

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin

indigi posted:

this sounds terrible

"Paying up front" usually means a very modest (i.e. less than 10RMB/USD$2) "registration" fee. For the vast majority of people the barriers to access primary care are low enough as to not really be much of an issue at least in momentary terms, the bigger barrier is that because the fee is so low, "good" urban hospitals are very busy. Most things are pretty cheap because the system is either subsidized or entirely owned by the state in one way or another e.g. a lot of hospitals are run by the PLA or some large SOE or university, although that's not so different from the US. There are lots of issues that are sort of idiosyncratic to this system, e.g. the doctors and hospital for the most part don't make any money on consultations, so they make money by prescribing massive amounts of drugs that have higher profit margins at the hospital pharmacy.

I guess the item with the highest amount of profit are plastic IV bags and saline solution because every single drug or treatment comes in the form of an IV drip and hospitals just have whole floors with rows and rows of nothing but infusion stations which is pretty weird to a westerner. I've never had an IV for anything in my life in the west but in China it's normal to get an infusion for a mild cold.

The whole process to see a doctor and get treatment is pretty streamlined and efficient if you are willing to advocate for yourself or have friends/relatives who can.

My Chinese family and spouse actually find western healthcare systems ridiculously and frustratingly inefficient because although we've always either lived in western countries with universal healthcare or otherwise had the best employer provided insurance money could buy, every single god drat thing requires an appointment and authorization from 3 levels of administration, which, along with fancier offices and more nurses doing busywork, seems to take up much of the difference in cost. Whereas in China you just showed up, paid the modest fee and got to see someone right away. Most of them vastly preferred the Chinese system at least for fairly uncomplicated and common healthcare needs.

BrainDance
May 8, 2007

Disco all night long!

Throatwarbler posted:

"Paying up front" usually means a very modest (i.e. less than 10RMB/USD$2) "registration" fee.

Ehhh, I dunno. For minor unimportant things sure, this is true. And it's great, way better than the US system, I get my Sudafed when my nose gets all jacked up from the air and it costs next to nothing, and involves almost no wait. But serious things, life or death things, can get really expensive. Especially expensive on a Chinese not-Shanghai or something wage. I had a friend who recently had a stroke (he's quite old, he's fine but you know) and it very quickly required thousands, up front at the city people's hospital. It was affordable to him on an expat wage but many of my friends who are recent college grads are making about 3000 a month. A whole lot of people are making far less than that.

Happy Thread posted:

A 17 year old streamer kid recently died in China, of malnutrition and from complications from diabetes type 1. They were super poor and abandoned by their family in early childhood after the parents divorced. The streamer kid tried to raise crowd funding on shuidichou.com to pay for their diabetes treatment. But in order to qualify they would have had to provide paperwork up front documenting their condition, which required a doctor visit, which they could not afford in the first place. A whole bunch of people were sad when they died.

My girlfriend's neighbor died from almost exactly this just about two months ago, except type 2 diabetes and there were further complications from other recent medical things. If I had to guess I don't think that family could have been making more than 2k a month, and the complications led to the costs getting out of hand, she couldn't manage it properly, and then she died. It was a very brutal death, her children screaming, the whole neighborhood watching as they try to revive her, etc. But, the point is, there is a huge portion of China making very little money who cant actually afford to pay up front for anything serious. In a lot of ways it's better than the hellscape US system, but that's not a very high standard.

Korean healthcare is better. By a lot.

Antonymous
Apr 4, 2009

Taiwan healthcare #1

Red and Black
Sep 5, 2011

https://twitter.com/AnonJoxter/status/1352825410283855872

isn't Hong Kong hermit a goon?

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Chomskyan posted:

isn't Hong Kong hermit a goon?

Probably a moderator tbh

sincx
Jul 13, 2012

furiously masturbating to anime titties
.

sincx has issued a correction as of 05:32 on Mar 23, 2021

dead gay comedy forums
Oct 21, 2011


Ferrinus posted:

i'm always torn between blaming the fall of the ussr barely/not at all on gorbachev because explaining history through the actions of important individuals is liberalism, and massively/entirely on gorbachev because he just sucks so bad

gorbie was incredibly bad, immensely so, to the level he is the best point in favor of Trotsky's argument about bureaucratic degeneration imho hahaha

stephenthinkpad
Jan 2, 2020
Is this the same Navalny protest or a separated protest happened at the same time?

https://twitter.com/mjluxmoore/status/1353036333388849152?s=20

The center must hold!

https://twitter.com/mjluxmoore/status/1352976547716747270?s=20

Top City Homo
Oct 15, 2014


Ramrod XTreme

stephenthinkpad posted:

Is this the same Navalny protest or a separated protest happened at the same time?

https://twitter.com/mjluxmoore/status/1353036333388849152?s=20

The center must hold!

https://twitter.com/mjluxmoore/status/1352976547716747270?s=20

LIb trash

Ardennes
May 12, 2002

stephenthinkpad posted:

Is this the same Navalny protest or a separated protest happened at the same time?

I would assume they would be the same, but overall they seem moderately larger than the 2017 protests but smaller than 2011 protests. I heard about 20-40,000 in Moscow.

Ardennes has issued a correction as of 19:32 on Jan 23, 2021

sincx
Jul 13, 2012

furiously masturbating to anime titties
.

sincx has issued a correction as of 05:32 on Mar 23, 2021

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

eh, avatar seems fine.


The protests are related to Navalny but all the coverage is mainly just about police brutality. It's all about pigs doing their thing and nothing about what is being protested.

Red and Black
Sep 5, 2011

I vaguely remember someone posting in the D&D China thread with that name, but what's their deal aside from apparently being a pedo?

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
Are the protests pro Navalny or anti Navalny

Not So Fast
Dec 27, 2007


Here's a thread going over the protests.

I doubt this will lead to much but the amount of arrests is high.

https://twitter.com/mjluxmoore/status/1352883315246821377?s=19

And a highlight of the police response.

https://twitter.com/biannagolodryga/status/1353011116671168513?s=19

Not So Fast has issued a correction as of 19:53 on Jan 23, 2021

stephenthinkpad
Jan 2, 2020
Can Russian goon tell me what are they yelling in the video? That twitter guy has a lot of videos. I know one of them is "Putin's thief."

Beached Whale
Jun 27, 2009

The world as will and idea
Russia appears to be entering what is known over here as the "Cool Zone"

ФСБ (State Police) car getting snowballed
https://2ch.hk/po/src/41636942/16114253002120.mp4

Aggressive protestors chanting FREEDOM being taken away by brave police officers
https://2ch.hk/po/src/41643419/16114065692412.mp4

Beached Whale has issued a correction as of 20:14 on Jan 23, 2021

Ardennes
May 12, 2002

stephenthinkpad posted:

Can Russian goon tell me what are they yelling in the video? That twitter guy has a lot of videos. I know one of them is "Putin's thief."

Путин Вор ie Putin's a thief is the common one and another common motto is Россия без Путина ie Russia without Putin, тhe protests are far more anti-Putin than pro-Navalny and a lot of it stems from the 2018 pension reform.

That said, going into the protests, Putin's approval rating was pretty stable in the high 60s.

Somaen
Nov 19, 2007

by vyelkin
Putin vor = Putin's a thief
Otpuskaj = let him go
Doloj carya = Remove the czar
Svobodu = freedom
Zhuliki i vory 5 minut na sbory = thieves and criminals, 5 minutes to gather your things (some meme by Navalny apparently)

wisconsingreg
Jan 13, 2019

Beached Whale posted:

Russia appears to be entering what is known over here as the "Cool Zone"

ФСБ (State Police) car getting egged
https://2ch.hk/po/src/41636942/16114253002120.mp4
snow balled, would never waste egg

quote:

Things getting very testy at the riot line with molotovs
https://2ch.hk/po/src/41636942/16114255654380.mp4

this is kyiv 2014

Beached Whale
Jun 27, 2009

The world as will and idea

Vasukhani posted:

snow balled, would never waste egg


this is kyiv

Ah my mistake, thank you for clarifying!

wisconsingreg
Jan 13, 2019

Beached Whale posted:

Ah my mistake, thank you for clarifying!

Thanks for posting the other two though!


Unless we start seeing signs of the coercive apperatus joining the protestors, I'm afraid this will probably simple be supressed.

Beached Whale
Jun 27, 2009

The world as will and idea

Vasukhani posted:

Thanks for posting the other two though!


Unless we start seeing signs of the coercive apperatus joining the protestors, I'm afraid this will probably simple be supressed.

I can't really disagree, especially with the Duma elections this year I think Putin takes no chances

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

sincx posted:

let me just say again: ahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahhaha

不出所料


edit: holy poo poo some loser actually bought me a avatar

I wonder who it is, and what they're hiding

I'm annoyed that they specify it as 'anime titties' when that's clearly a sonic character, which is 1. furry and 2. games

get yr redtexts right fool

Somaen
Nov 19, 2007

by vyelkin
FBK are calling for people to come out next week too. Some chance this turns into a weekly event just like Minsk/Khabarovsk if people are emboldened enough

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

are there even any communists left or is this entirely right-wing focused

Somaen
Nov 19, 2007

by vyelkin
i saw some antifa flags in the crowds... young leftists support this and want a different system because right now they are getting silenced, put in prison or killed and any movement towards a freer society is preferable to socialism for oligarchs and austerity for everyone else

Ardennes
May 12, 2002

Grapplejack posted:

are there even any communists left or is this entirely right-wing focused

Yeah, plenty, but they are mostly sitting on the sidelines because this is really a battle between Navalny (and people who just don't like Putin) supporters and the government. It is anecdotal, but a lot of people I know that are more sympathetic to the Soviet Union, also really don't like Navalny, and for good reason.

Navalny is openly for privatization, lower taxes and deregulation, it would be a paradise for oligarchs.

wisconsingreg
Jan 13, 2019

Grapplejack posted:

are there even any communists left or is this entirely right-wing focused

The leftist opposition is larger than the right in russia

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011
it'd be funny if navalny ended up yeltsin mk 2

wisconsingreg
Jan 13, 2019

Ardennes posted:

It is anecdotal, but a lot of people I know that are more sympathetic to the Soviet Union, also really don't like Navalny, and for good reason.

navalny's politics are just like generic nationalist, in some way's further right than putin, who is kinda anti-political/personalistic.

quote:

In 2011, Navalny stated he considered himself a "nationalist democrat".[254] International media have often commented on his ambiguous but non-condemnatory stance toward ethnic Russian nationalism.[255][256] He also has been a co-organizer of the "Russian march",[257] which Radio Free Europe describes as "a parade uniting Russian nationalist groups of all stripes" and noted that Navalny had also endorsed a nationalist-led campaign called Stop Feeding the Caucasus to end federal subsidies to the Caucasian republics.[258] In 2011, Navalny defended his attendance at the march, where BBC News reported that racist slogans were chanted, saying to reporters that the rally was an outlet for anger at the government.[259][260] In a 2011 profile, The New York Times said that Navalny espoused Russian nationalist views and that he starred in a video that compared "dark-skinned Caucasus militants to cockroaches".[261] In 2011, Navalny defended riots by nationalists in a Moscow district on his blog which was sparked after a murder was blamed on a migrant.[262][263]

Early in 2012, Navalny stated on Ukrainian TV, "Russian foreign policy should be maximally directed at integration with Ukraine and Belarus… In fact, we are one nation. We should enhance integration."[264] During the same broadcast Navalny said that he did not intend "to prove that the Ukrainian nation does not exist. God willing, it does". He added, "No one wants to make an attempt to limit Ukraine's sovereignty".[264][265]

THS
Sep 15, 2017

Vasukhani posted:

this is kyiv 2014

looking forward to all the completely wrong video and disinformation

or should i say....

Dezinformatsiya

Ardennes
May 12, 2002
Just cut and pasted from his 2018 Presidental party website

quote:

Our program includes a wide range of measures to free entrepreneurs from the pressure of the bureaucracy, security officials and monopolies. We are implementing a program to demonopolize the economy and reduce monopoly prices. We will reduce the number of regulatory bodies, and we will liquidate some of them. We will prohibit business inspections - control of operations will be transferred to an electronic form, and inspections directly at enterprises will be carried out only by a court decision if there are serious suspicions of violations. We will abolish separate tax accounting and completely switch to accounting reporting in accordance with international standards. We will prohibit the initiation of criminal cases in the case of considering the same case in the framework of a commercial dispute, as well as placing entrepreneurs in custody for economic crimes pending a verdict.

The judicial system created by us, completely independent of the executive branch, will reliably protect private property from raiding and arbitrariness of state bodies.

In Russia now there is some kind of incomprehensible capitalism, in which the state controls more than half of the economy and commands businessmen. Such a system hinders the development of the country.

We will abolish taxes on small businesses - today they give only less than 0.5% of GDP to the consolidated budget, while a huge staff of bureaucracy is maintained to administer them. It is easier to offer small entrepreneurs to pay a patent fee to the budget annually, completely freeing them from further tax control. Small business is needed to create jobs, ensure self-employment of the population, and not for fiscal purposes. (No artificial tax evasion will happen in this case, since we will rebuild the tax system according to international standards applied in developed countries - in such conditions it will be impossible to portray a large enterprise or a trading network as a “chain of entrepreneurs”.)

We will reduce taxes on the payroll (insurance premiums) from 30% to 15%, which will remove barriers to raising wages in the private sector of the economy. This will be done by changing the mechanism for forming the Pension Fund according to the scenario described above.

We will make peace with the civilized world, stop the aggression against Ukraine and thus achieve the lifting of sanctions that prevent our entrepreneurs from trading with the outside world and taking out cheap loans on world financial markets.

quote:


We will deeply demonopolize the strategic sectors of the economy, develop competition in them, which will sharply reduce not only the prices for services of energy, transport, utility monopolies and public procurement, but also the rates on loans. After all, the current sky-high rates against the background of record profits of banks with an economy “lying on the shoulder” is a direct consequence of the dominance of a narrow circle of state banks in the banking market (today they control two-thirds of the banking system's assets). To remedy the situation, we will radically change our attitude towards the banking sector - instead of a privileged sphere of the economy that collects all the "fat" and twists the hands of honest entrepreneurs, banks will become an ordinary infrastructure unit, a highly competitive sector,

We will abolish non-tax levies like "Plato", utilization fees, overhaul, etc. All these levies are intended only for one thing - the enrichment of the officials and those close to him. President Navalny will cancel them, everyone will make only those payments that are provided for by the Tax Code.

For ordinary citizens, the measures we propose for demonopolization will have a very simple and noticeable effect in everyday life: at last, the constant growth of utility tariffs will stop. Utility monopolies will be deprived of the right to raise tariffs in the absence of an independent public audit of their costs. People will very quickly feel the results of our policy on their wallets - in a positive sense.

In addition, the cost of housing will decrease. Today, officials are massively holding land for friendly developers who are building mostly luxury housing. It would have been possible to build up the country with cheap housing for a long time, but this is not happening due to the monopolization of control over land by officials and the monopolization of the construction market by companies associated with the government. We will unblock these markets, remove bureaucratic interests from them, ensure transparency in the distribution of land and construction contracts, as a result of which Russians will finally get affordable housing.

quote:

There are enough resources in the country to ensure high rates of economic growth and the welfare of citizens. It's just that these resources are being eaten up and plundered, and the resulting gaps in the country's economy are plugged by ever-increasing extortions from the population.

We will put an end to this. The state will begin to carry out its direct functions - to provide people with a normal education, medical care, pensions, and transport infrastructure. The state machine will be reduced in size and placed under strict public control. Entrepreneurs will be free to invest and raise salaries. Major transformations will be implemented in the first one or two years - entrepreneurs and citizens will soon feel the change in the economic atmosphere. Russia will move quickly along the path of becoming a developed, prosperous country.

It is mostly snake oil and if you read between the lines you clearly can see he wants to sell off as much of the country as humanly possible.

He also wants a strict visa regime with Caucasus/Central Asian countries, but his stance on immigration isn't news.

Ardennes has issued a correction as of 20:43 on Jan 23, 2021

THS
Sep 15, 2017

if there's something that looks like a color revolution in russia, then the US intelligence services are heavily involved. whatever legitimate grievances people have will be harnessed into something that will probably destroy or weaken russia

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Somaen
Nov 19, 2007

by vyelkin
drat, that guy is no angel

i'm convinced, better stay with the devil you know, the Ozero cooperative

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply