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CannonFodder posted:From what I've heard everyone who buys a PHEV really wants to make the jump to BEV. There are of course the extenuating circumstances, like how you can't have a level 2 charger at your apartment, but if they can make it work they go BEV. Yeah, a PHEV feels like a "can't / won't go BEV because of xyz" choice. On the fence here myself. Sweden put in some regulations a year or so back that heavily penalizes (tax wise) new cars that exceed I think 90 g co2/km, leading to a lot of vehicles seeing fairly significant tax increases (200-300% or more in some cases). This has lead to a high demand for nicer used vehicles that still have the "old" tax, so my BMW 330D would sell today for about what I paid for it 2.5 years ago. At the same time, they are offering 60k SEK (to be raised to 70k SEK this year) bonus for electric vehicles. And a smaller bonus for PHEVs. So it's almost the "perfect storm" for moving out of my current vehicle as I can get very good money for it and a significant discount on a new electric/PHEV. However, I need/want the following: Room for 5 people (I have three kids). Not american SUV room, just 5 actual seats. Decent luggage capacity (we do a lot of outdoors and scout stuff and have to carry a bunch of poo poo) 350+ km _actual_ range if electric. Preferably over 400. Tow hook optional but would be nice. Our Passat GTE has one so can tow our trailer with it for now though. Roof rack a must since I carry kayaks. Been test driving and checking out various options over the past year. The Model 3 is obviously high on the list. However there are no nearby service centers, the price even on used one is pretty steep here, and poo poo like the windows and door handles freezing during lovely winters (we get a lot of near-0 temps and freezing rain here) is something I really don't want to have to gently caress with. But it's no doubt the best EV drivetrain on the market. Wish it had a hatch instead of a sedan trunk though. ID3 felt too small and for some reason can't accept a roof rack (what the gently caress VW? Skiboxes on cars are basically standard here.) ID4 I got to sit in but not drive when one was at a local dealer. It felt mostly OK but the interior did not appeal in the least and it really did not feel like something I'd want to sink that kind of money into. But it gets a tow hook as standard equipment and works with roof racks. Great range. Drove an e-Niro recently. Surprised the heck out of me with how nice it felt quality wise, with good seats and a pretty decent interior. Nice power but wish it was RWD or AWD as the front wheels struggled to deal with the electric motor torque. Roomy for the whole family. No tow hook but can handle roof racks. Solid range, people here are reporting an actual 430+ km during the summer and 350+ even in winter temps. Looking at the past few years I do a handful of longer trips a year so it's rare that I would need to charge outside home. But Tesla is obviously king here with their well established network. Then there's the PHEV vehicles. Lots more to choose from there. We have been very happy with the Passat; my wife got gas for the first time 5 months after we bought it so the small battery is really working out for us there. But I dislike the complexity of the drivetrain and worry that a fossil fuel ban or similar is coming sooner rather than later and at that point the used market will crater. But perhaps it'd be an option for a year or two while the electric market matures a bit.
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Jan 24, 2021 11:37
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Clayton Bigsby posted:Yeah, a PHEV feels like a "can't / won't go BEV because of xyz" choice. I live in an apartment in Boston and don't see myself buying a house in the area anytime soon. Mass has gone along with California's phase out of ICE sales in 10 years, so charging infrastructure will hopefully start making more sense and being more available to non home-owners. Feel like it's best (conceptually) to just rip the band-aid off and go full electric rather than deal with a dual drivetrain vehicle. Not sure how true this is. Excited to see what starts hitting the market this year though.
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Jan 24, 2021 12:45
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Mr Newsman posted:I live in an apartment in Boston and don't see myself buying a house in the area anytime soon. Mass has gone along with California's phase out of ICE sales in 10 years, so charging infrastructure will hopefully start making more sense and being more available to non home-owners. I generally think that all else being equal I'd happily pay $10-20k more for an equivalent BEV over a PHEV. But with a PHEV here I can get e.g. a good size vehicle with AWD capable of towing and short of going to one of the _really_ expensive BEV options there's really not much available. I could get a two year old Outlander PHEV (boring but capable) for like 250k SEK and get 40-45km range on battery alone as well as the ability to tow a decent load. With the driving I do I could be on battery probably 75% of the time. And some argue that a PHEV driven shorter ranges as actually a better choice environmentally than a pure BEV, though I have not dug into that particularly deeply. Ideally I'd be able to wait a couple of years. But the new tax penalty only applies for the first 3 or 4 years (for a new car) so in 2022/2023 a lot of the currently expensive to own (it's an annual tax) vehicles will drop down to more "normal" levels, and then the market for cars like mine will crater. So I need to move on something, and the question is whether I should get a PHEV just to tide me over for a couple of years, a used BEV until something better is available, or just jump into the most suitable new BEV option with the intent of keeping it for 5+ years.
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Jan 24, 2021 12:52
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Westy543 posted:Thank you so much! I really appreciate hearing about ownership experiences. The general consensus online is that one should avoid test driving a Model 3/Y unless you are ready, willing, and able to buy one right there. Though TBH the same would apply if you were test driving a Mach-E or Taycan or basically any of the other higher tier BEVs, they are all generally just *that good* compared to the typical ICE vehicle. So yesterday I charged my 3 all the way up to 100% and then drove it 151 miles in 15-20F clear weather with the climate on 68F auto. Left shortly after the charge completed with the battery still warm, got back from the round trip with 34%, I got roughly 330 Wh/mi and consumed just over 50 kWh with an average speed of 54 MPH. Probably 90% of the trip I was cruising on autopilot. About what I expected for a mid 2020 build model 3 (no heat pump, 75 kWh battery), if you extrapolate it out the effective range in that weather would be about 225 miles. I did notice the car never reached full regen, it was always slightly limited which I expected at 100% charge, but even at <40% it was still too cold to get the max. It is a performance model 3, but it doesn't have the performance package, I have the aero wheels with the caps installed on it. Just for fun I stomped on the accelerator twice, once at 98% charge on the way out and my data logger recorded a spike to 408 kW, then again almost all the way back at 35% charge and my data logger recorded a spike to 355 kW. Kind of surprised the power didn't drop more at <50%, I was expecting a more significant reduction. You could feel the difference but it was still faster off the line than 99% of the vehicles out there.
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Jan 24, 2021 14:00
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I bought an PHEV as there were no BEVs that could/can manage my commute in a way where I don't have to sit and charge for 20-40 minutes every other day (assuming there are no queues), but at the same time I can go full EV and charge overnight in the situations where I can choose to (but that in turn means being away from my wife, so not a long term solution). That and there not being a BEV that I feel is worth the premium over the PHEV that is larger, more comfortable, more practical etc. Between getting more for my trade-in than I paid for it when I got it, the incentives and not having to wait almost a year for an inferior but more expensive car, the choice was a solid one. My commute will likely go from 50min one way to using my bicycle in the future if I don't choose to return to my current work-place. If I choose to stay, I'll likely keep the car anyway until I get close to the end of KIA warranty (7 years or 150000km). That being said I keep window shopping as I really would like an EV, but I keep coming back to the same conclusion again and again. Nothing that works better for me at the moment even if I probably would be getting more in trade in for my PHEV right now than I defacto paid for it which makes everything super tempting. Edit: .... and I'm looking again. All I have to say is gently caress any manufacturer that have extra airbags and safety like that as addons. Not buying a car like that on principle. MrOnBicycle fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Jan 24, 2021 |
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Jan 24, 2021 14:19
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Our xyz reason for getting a hybrid over a BEV was nothing really having room for double car seats, and even with a phev we didn’t want to deal with plugs and wires in the garage while trying to wrangle toddlers. So basically as soon as my kids get a bit older we will get a BEV crossover in a blink.
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Jan 24, 2021 14:51
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Indiana_Krom posted:The general consensus online is that one should avoid test driving a Model 3/Y unless you are ready, willing, and able to buy one right there. Though TBH the same would apply if you were test driving a Mach-E or Taycan or basically any of the other higher tier BEVs, they are all generally just *that good* compared to the typical ICE vehicle. Mmmm, not really sure I agree. My current ICE vehicle is a BMW 330D xDrive with M Power installed. It does 0-60 in well under 5 seconds and the build quality and interior is excellent. I drove a friend's Model 3 LR AWD and while it's an impressive piece of tech as well as pretty quick the overall quality feel and the interior felt like a solid step down from my BMW. The drive left me more feeling that "yeah, this could be an option" than "I have to buy one now". But if you're coming from a Camry or Civic or something then yes, I could see it being quite the experience.
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Jan 24, 2021 15:09
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https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1131027_vietnam-s-vinfast-reveals-trio-of-electric-suvs-including-2-for-us Looks like the deep pockets of asian real estate conglomerates are coming out with the lidar-equipped toys.
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Jan 24, 2021 16:43
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Clayton Bigsby posted:Mmmm, not really sure I agree. My current ICE vehicle is a BMW 330D xDrive with M Power installed. It does 0-60 in well under 5 seconds and the build quality and interior is excellent. I drove a friend's Model 3 LR AWD and while it's an impressive piece of tech as well as pretty quick the overall quality feel and the interior felt like a solid step down from my BMW. The drive left me more feeling that "yeah, this could be an option" than "I have to buy one now". The 3 series is one of the most common cars traded for Model 3 in the US. I had 2 (a 2011 and a 2016, both 328i) before my Model 3 AWD. It's in a different league in terms of performance and the steering is better which was a real issue with the newer 3 series. I drove the Model 3 shortly after they got demo models at the local showroom and was grinning like an idiot the whole time. I ordered the car a week later. The 328 sat unused for 6 months until the lease was up. The interior is chintzy for sure, the attention to detail and fit/finish of BMW is not there. But it's worth the tradeoff for many people. Model 3 AWD is an honest 300kw/400hp at the wheels car that costs about the same as a 330i and has the operating costs of a Prius, it's a sweet deal.
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Jan 24, 2021 17:10
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sanchez posted:The 3 series is one of the most common cars traded for Model 3 in the US. I had 2 (a 2011 and a 2016, both 328i) before my Model 3 AWD. It's in a different league in terms of performance and the steering is better which was a real issue with the newer 3 series. I drove the Model 3 shortly after they got demo models at the local showroom and was grinning like an idiot the whole time. I ordered the car a week later. The 328 sat unused for 6 months until the lease was up. Recent BMWs have really gone downhill in quality so if a Model 3 is chintzy in comparison that really underlines where they're going to struggle when more cars from established car manufacturers come on the scene. I got a ride in a colleague's Model S a bit ago and while it was nice enough it didn't feel like a luxury car.
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Jan 24, 2021 18:01
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CannonFodder posted:My experience with the KIA lane keeping is it's 95% great on the interstate but sometimes it wants to follow the solid white line on the right and take an exit at speed instead of staying on the highway. This also happens on US highways where I'm going 55 and one time when I wanted to see how good it was on back roads and it wanted to exit left into a turn lane for a residential area, all at speed. Does Hyundai's LKA do that to you? We don't have any issue like that on our Ioniq. LKA is basically perfect, doesn't cause issues on the freeways here, and even works on city streets like a champ. On the one long distance drive we took during the pandemic, which was mostly two lane roads for about 800 miles, it never failed and really made that drive the best it's ever been. The adaptive cruise control and what have you helped a lot as well. quote:From what I've heard everyone who buys a PHEV really wants to make the jump to BEV. There are of course the extenuating circumstances, like how you can't have a level 2 charger at your apartment, but if they can make it work they go BEV. This is true. The Ioniq is fantastic, and still beats any BEV for range (we get close to 600 miles per tank), but this is our last gasoline powered family car. We'll probably upgrade in the next few years, perhaps when the Ioniq standalone brand takes shape and we see what will be on offer.
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Jan 24, 2021 18:07
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sanchez posted:The 3 series is one of the most common cars traded for Model 3 in the US. I had 2 (a 2011 and a 2016, both 328i) before my Model 3 AWD. It's in a different league in terms of performance and the steering is better which was a real issue with the newer 3 series. I drove the Model 3 shortly after they got demo models at the local showroom and was grinning like an idiot the whole time. I ordered the car a week later. The 328 sat unused for 6 months until the lease was up. Hey, everyone's entitled to their opinion. Keep in mind that the car I have has nearly double the torque of an F30 328i so the "kick in the back" thing from the Tesla torque might not have left quite the same impression. But it was a quick and fun car to drive, no doubt. Just wish it didn't come with the cheapish feeling interior and I really have to question some of the design choices (door handles, frameless windows (I know they aren't alone in this, have some Audi driving friends dealing with similar problems), no lip above the trunk lid so snow and poo poo dumps into the trunk if you aren't careful). Killer tech and drivetrain for sure. Just not sure the rest of it is worth the $70k or so they cost here, at least for me. On another note, the Ioniq 5 is being revealed in a week or so. Leaked specs so far indicate 313hp, dual motors, AWD, large trunk (600 liter capacity being tossed about which would be impressive) and decent (450km WLTP) range. If those specs are correct and price lands somewhere reasonable that might be worth signing up for.
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Jan 24, 2021 18:24
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I mean, if you want a car with a bad interior, poor reliability, goes fast in a straight line, and costs a lot then Tesla is the natural progression point from BMW.
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Jan 24, 2021 19:06
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CannonFodder posted:From what I've heard everyone who buys a PHEV really wants to make the jump to BEV. There are of course the extenuating circumstances, like how you can't have a level 2 charger at your apartment, but if they can make it work they go BEV. Can relate, within a few months of getting my Volt, I was like "drat, I really could just make a BEV work." You get used to EV fueling habits with the assurance that you won't be stranded or inconvenienced if you do it wrong. I went with a Volt over a Bolt for my lease because I didn't have reliable home charging. Indiana_Krom posted:The general consensus online is that one should avoid test driving a Model 3/Y unless you are ready, willing, and able to buy one right there. Though TBH the same would apply if you were test driving a Mach-E or Taycan or basically any of the other higher tier BEVs, they are all generally just *that good* compared to the typical ICE vehicle. Oh I've heard, I hope I'm going to be able to avoid this since I've already driven my partner's Bolt EV.  Reminds me that I do want to test drive a Mach E, too...
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Jan 24, 2021 19:27
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Westy543 posted:Oh I've heard, I hope I'm going to be able to avoid this since I've already driven my partner's Bolt EV. When does the e-tron GT come out in the US?
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Jan 24, 2021 19:32
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knox_harrington posted:When does the e-tron GT come out in the US? 2022 probably.
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Jan 24, 2021 19:35
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CannonFodder posted:My experience with the KIA lane keeping is it's 95% great on the interstate but sometimes it wants to follow the solid white line on the right and take an exit at speed instead of staying on the highway. This also happens on US highways where I'm going 55 and one time when I wanted to see how good it was on back roads and it wanted to exit left into a turn lane for a residential area, all at speed. Does Hyundai's LKA do that to you? Can't say I've had that happen to me. I've had it not pick up the marking for a bit sometimes, but it's pretty drat good overall. Camera based LKA is so situational though. Lighting conditions, was the camera dirty, were the stripes in good shape and visible, etc. Half of Arizona doesn't have bad winter weather that damages roads as bad as elsewhere. As far as Kia\Hyundai differences I'd have to assume around the same model year they'd be nearly identical and use mostly the same parts. Mostly trim feature differences at that point.
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Jan 24, 2021 19:51
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CannonFodder posted:My experience with the KIA lane keeping is it's 95% great on the interstate but sometimes it wants to follow the solid white line on the right and take an exit at speed instead of staying on the highway.
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Jan 24, 2021 20:09
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Indiana_Krom posted:The general consensus online is that one should avoid test driving a Model 3/Y unless you are ready, willing, and able to buy one right there. Though TBH the same would apply if you were test driving a Mach-E or Taycan or basically any of the other higher tier BEVs, they are all generally just *that good* compared to the typical ICE vehicle. Just wanted to point out that I test drove a Model3 Performance and it completely soured me on the whole brand. I bought a BMW instead and now I’m waiting for something less lovely before I make the leap. My hope is that the Germans or even Ford comes out with an electric car that doesn’t feel like it was built in a tent. I personally would sooner buy a Bolt than a Tesla. My point is to other people here is to test drive what you want and don’t be swayed into the Tesla mind distortion field. Does Tesla make the best electric drive train? Yes. Are they good cars? Highly debatable.
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Jan 24, 2021 20:11
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Bum the Sad posted:My 2018 Subaru used to do that poo poo all the time as well, try and jerk you off the highway. That's interesting...I don't usually use the lanekeeping in the Volt, but I'll have to try this out tomorrow. I know it hasn't happened yet, but I'm curious if I can arrange it.
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Jan 24, 2021 21:04
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Don’t buy a Tesla. I own a M3D and the build quality is atrocious. Also the customer support and repair times and repair quality are horrendous.
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Jan 24, 2021 21:05
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knox_harrington posted:When does the e-tron GT come out in the US? Not entirely sure, but that one's on my s/o's wishlist to upgrade from a Bolt EV to. It's such a goddamn pretty car. She's between a Bolt EUV, Rivian R1T, and an e-tron GT. It'll be about 5 years off so no hurry. E: speaking of https://www.motor1.com/news/473956/audi-e-tron-gt-teased/ e-tron GT reveal Feb 9th! Westy543 fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Jan 24, 2021 |
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Jan 24, 2021 21:17
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Godholio posted:That's interesting...I don't usually use the lanekeeping in the Volt, but I'll have to try this out tomorrow. I know it hasn't happened yet, but I'm curious if I can arrange it. My 2020 Impreza lane keeping is pretty bad too, so it hasn't improved over 2 years. It's probably better than some drivers I've seen, though 
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Jan 24, 2021 21:17
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I would absolutely buy a Rivian but I don't think the timing will work out as I'm going to need a car by May or June at the latest. I have a deposit in for an ID.4 but also need to test drive a Bolt. Dealers near me are advertising 2020 Bolts for $15-18K off sticker. And thanks for the reminder to check the dealerships service center on the traditional car dealers to make sure they know how to handle EVs.
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Jan 24, 2021 21:22
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Tyro posted:I would absolutely buy a Rivian but I don't think the timing will work out as I'm going to need a car by May or June at the latest. TBH a second gen Volt is a really good car for the money and I highly suggest you test drive one.
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Jan 24, 2021 21:23
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DoomTrainPhD posted:TBH a second gen Volt is a really good car for the money and I highly suggest you test drive one. Yeah I had a friend who had a first gen and absolutely loved it, I'll keep it on the radar. Though if I go PHEV I'll be tempted to get the Rav4 Prime.
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Jan 24, 2021 21:24
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Charles posted:My 2020 Impreza lane keeping is pretty bad too, so it hasn't improved over 2 years. It's probably better than some drivers I've seen, though GG I have to agree to this so much. Subaru's lane assist is complete and utter garbage
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Jan 24, 2021 21:24
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Westy543 posted:By the way, goons who have purchased and still currently own a model 3 or Y, how do you like your cars after some time with them? Have they given you any weird issues? You can PM if you're worried about getting poo poo for posting, but I thought I'd ask for some experiences from actual owners on this comedy forum. I've had my Model 3 for a bit over a month now, not quite 800 miles on it. No issues to report, build quality is good, no janky panel gaps. Teslamate says I've averaged 296 Wh/mi, which I think is a bit high. But I've done a lot of, uh, acceleration demonstrations for friends and family. Also looks like nearly all my trips have been at below 40F, so hopefully I'll see some better numbers once spring comes. SpaceCadetBob posted:Our xyz reason for getting a hybrid over a BEV was nothing really having room for double car seats, and even with a phev we didn’t want to deal with plugs and wires in the garage while trying to wrangle toddlers. When my son was born my wife and I had a Passat, nice giant backseat, the carseat fit easily. But it was a dieselgate vehicle and we started looking at SUVs for hauling the kid plus the dogs around. We were surprised at how terribly car seats fit into the SUVs we were looking at. The Mazda CX-5 would have required the front seat to be completely forward to fit our carseat in. I think the Honda CR-V wasn't much better. We ended up with a Subaru Forrester, which juuuust fit. We eventually got a Diono carseat that gives us a few extra inches of room, and other than not being able to recline the passenger seat you couldn't tell there's a kid sitting behind you now. It fits well in the Model 3 as well, we've got a 5yo in a booster, and a 2yo in the Diono. I've seen people with 3 across in the back of the Model 3, so there's room in at least one BEV.
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Jan 24, 2021 21:26
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Tyro posted:Yeah I had a friend who had a first gen and absolutely loved it, I'll keep it on the radar. Though if I go PHEV I'll be tempted to get the Rav4 Prime. If its in your budget I am going to sell my M3D. 2018 40k miles for $36k (what I owe on it). If you are in the SoCal area. It recently hit a construction barrel bouncing down the freeway but the repairs are perfect. It also has the forged referral wheels and the original wheels.
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Jan 24, 2021 21:32
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DoomTrainPhD posted:If its in your budget I am going to sell my M3D. 2018 40k miles for 36 (what I owe on it). If you are in the SoCal area. It recently hit a construction barrel bouncing down the freeway but the repairs are perfect. Wrong coast and not really interested in a Tesla right now, but thanks! Too bad the timing didn't work out for me to get onto the R1T launch list for June.
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Jan 24, 2021 21:45
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MrLogan posted:I mean, if you want a car with a bad interior, poor reliability, goes fast in a straight line, and costs a lot then Tesla is the natural progression point from BMW. 
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Jan 24, 2021 22:35
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Mr. Wiggles posted:This is true. The Ioniq is fantastic, and still beats any BEV for range (we get close to 600 miles per tank), but this is our last gasoline powered family car. We'll probably upgrade in the next few years, perhaps when the Ioniq standalone brand takes shape and we see what will be on offer.
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Jan 25, 2021 03:26
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MrLogan posted:I mean, if you want a car with a bad interior, poor reliability, goes fast in a straight line, and costs a lot then Tesla is the natural progression point from BMW. Shots fired
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Jan 25, 2021 05:53
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Does Tesla use plastic that will crack if you so much as raise your voice? If not then BMW still reigns (?!) supreme.
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Jan 25, 2021 06:28
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Does BMW attach their seats? How about the front struts? Edit: I'll admit I'm not sure how we're defining "reigns supreme" here.
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Jan 25, 2021 06:28
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You need a subscription to keep them attached.
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Jan 25, 2021 08:21
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priznat posted:Does Tesla use plastic that will crack if you so much as raise your voice? If not then BMW still reigns (?!) supreme. I mean the M3P I did a test drive in had it's piano black center console scratched by the salesperson's badge when we stepped into the car. Seriously, the fact that they fixed that in the latest models almost gets it back to a possibility in my mind.
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Jan 25, 2021 13:41
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borkencode posted:When my son was born my wife and I had a Passat, nice giant backseat, the carseat fit easily. But it was a dieselgate vehicle and we started looking at SUVs for hauling the kid plus the dogs around. We were surprised at how terribly car seats fit into the SUVs we were looking at. The Mazda CX-5 would have required the front seat to be completely forward to fit our carseat in. I think the Honda CR-V wasn't much better. We ended up with a Subaru Forrester, which juuuust fit. We eventually got a Diono carseat that gives us a few extra inches of room, and other than not being able to recline the passenger seat you couldn't tell there's a kid sitting behind you now. It fits well in the Model 3 as well, we've got a 5yo in a booster, and a 2yo in the Diono. I've seen people with 3 across in the back of the Model 3, so there's room in at least one BEV. How are you putting a dog in a model 3?  I've been really impressed with the space the eNiro has for child seats, much better than my Saab. Shame the boot is either dog or luggage though.
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Jan 25, 2021 16:27
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Yeep posted:How are you putting a dog in a model 3? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0727Y5ZD7/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_2WUdGb6CXHNA5?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 Highly recommend.
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Jan 25, 2021 17:05
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MrYenko posted:https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0727Y5ZD7/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_2WUdGb6CXHNA5?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 That looks completely incompatible with having children, and is probably illegal in the UK unless your dog is also strapped down or you have a cargo net behind the front seats.
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Jan 25, 2021 17:46
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