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Finicums Wake posted:one of the first things i remember doing in cspam, after finally registering to post on these forums, was explaining to you, in some discord or the 'nitecrew.tv' thing, what neoliberalism means, right around the time trump won. weren't you some dipshit hillary supporter? even if i'm misremembering you, this kind of response is exactly why FTV people come across as a joke I remember being a dipshit hillary supporter but not you explaining anything to me, thanks if so follow-up question: why did you forget everything you explained
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Jan 25, 2021 06:29
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Willa Rogers posted:I'm not that old; I was talking about voting for jackson in '84. On the one hand it owns that you were part of the Rainbow Coalition. On the other hand it sucks that you got to see the same ratfucking again and again.
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Jan 25, 2021 06:33
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Cpt_Obvious posted:It works like this: if the handful of m4a votes held speaker as hostage, do you honestly believe the rest of the dem hold outs would have remained in abstention and voted for the GOP? i'm pretty sure that, even if you got the 'progressive wing' house members to withhold their votes, the leadership would end up wrangling the centrist dems into doing their bidding. at the end of the day, holding out votes for speaker isn't going to deliver m4a (or likely even pelosi from being speaker). the whole point of holding those votes hostage is to extract concessions from leadership. so, the operative question becomes: why extract a sure-to-fail house floor vote over extracting literally anything else? if this is just a messaging and propaganda task, then the best way to do carry that out is to hold hearings w/ sanders as committee chair, which has the benefit of not needing pelosi's permission
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Jan 25, 2021 06:34
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spacemang_spliff posted:Is BJG a grifter or is it just people you don't like that are conmen? The grifters in this situation are the people who spend 4 years pointing out the boot on your neck and then every election year flap about like a wet noodle and tell you to vote for the boot on your neck, then ask you to give them money. Sam Seder's a great example - he's even got his own MSNBC contract now!
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Jan 25, 2021 06:34
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Finicums Wake posted:i'm asking how the people who keep talking about FTV intend to try and force the vote. i thought they wanted pelosi to bring the bill to the floor, but i've been told that's not what they're doing See in politics there's something called "power", you gain "power" by, and follow me on this, "using power" Forcing Pelosi to bring the vote to the floor does several things, - it indicates the progressive dems aren't entirely toothless and have to actually be listened to - it forces dems to either lie and vote for m4a(which pisses of their donors) or vote against it(which pisses off everyone else) - it keeps m4a in the public consciousness and makes sure people see that progressives are fighting for them not forcing the vote also does several things - it indicates that progressive dems can be entirely ignored - it gets you promises of committee seats by pelosi that she will then renege on - it makes you look like a loving idiot
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Jan 25, 2021 06:34
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Fleetwood posted:this fucko is just talking in circles Of course they are, because they they think giving all your power and leverage to Democrats in exchange for nothing is somehow advancing progressive politics, even after Biden made it clear in less than 24 hours after being sworn in that any hypothetical reason you had for voting for him was an absolute lie.
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Jan 25, 2021 06:36
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Finicums Wake posted:if the handful of m4a votes held speaker as hostage, do you honestly believe the rest of the dem hold outs would have remained in abstention and voted for the GOP? i'm pretty sure that, even if you got the 'progressive wing' house members to withhold their votes, the leadership would end up wrangling the centrist dems into doing their bidding. People at the time said that there should be a greater ask, and that Pelosi should be opposed regardless, and nobody thought it would deliver m4a. And, again, at the time, Bernie's plan wasn't in the conversation. For gently caress's sake.
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Jan 25, 2021 06:37
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Hi everyone here are my opinions about the thing everyone hashed out weeks ago no I didn't read up about it.
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Jan 25, 2021 06:37
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It's very funny that AOC used every single force the vote argument to explain why they voted to impeach donald trump again, one week AFTER dismissing those same arguments for getting healthcare
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Jan 25, 2021 06:39
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Yinlock posted:I remember being a dipshit hillary supporter but not you explaining anything to me, thanks if so me: both of these parliamentary tactics, due to the nature of capitalism, are bound to fail, but one is far less stupid and could at least conceivably 'succeed,' in temporary way\ you, long-time leftist and subject-matter expert: do you even understand neoliberalism?
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Jan 25, 2021 06:39
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Finicums Wake posted:me: both of these parliamentary tactics, due to the nature of capitalism, are bound to fail, but one is far less stupid and could at least conceivably 'succeed,' in temporary way\ I'm a dipshit who can't even tie his own shoes and was fooled by the dumbest politician in the world Hillary Clinton, and yet unlike you, wizened sage, I still somehow avoided being trapped in the most basic neoliberal logic circle imaginable,
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Jan 25, 2021 06:40
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Terror Sweat posted:It's very funny that AOC used every single force the vote argument to explain why they voted to impeach donald trump again, one week AFTER dismissing those same arguments for getting healthcare It's actually incredible because the doubling-down on impeaching Trump even after he's left office is both A) the state getting egg on its face and deciding to stick it to Trump for making them look bad and B) AoC and the Squad admitting that they're completely abandoned agitating for working people that they've now joined the establishment in admitting that if Trump runs in 2024 he'd win in a landslide due to radical anarcho-bidenism doing absolutely jack poo poo but advancing a hard-right agenda that nobody wants.
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Jan 25, 2021 06:42
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You don't win by giving up before you try. FTV is dead but it has shown us how completely useless the progressive wing of the Demon Rat party is. They won't even fake being on your side.
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Jan 25, 2021 06:42
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cenotaph posted:People at the time said that there should be a greater ask, and that Pelosi should be opposed regardless, and nobody thought it would deliver m4a. And, again, at the time, Bernie's plan wasn't in the conversation. For gently caress's sake. my plan was "make pelosi bring m4a to the floor then oust her anyway" And it started as just a loving hypothetical! We all knew ~the squad~ didn't have the spine to do it! But that didn't stop every lib in the world from converging on the succ zone to defend their e-honor
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Jan 25, 2021 06:43
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Pelosi might be a shitheel lib, but she isn’t stupid. If they forced the vote she absolutely would vote for M4A to save herself knowing full well that it wouldn’t pass in the senate.
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Jan 25, 2021 06:44
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Finicums Wake posted:i think the people who are lukewarm about FTV think the relevant alternative is to do something like organize around sanders plan to introduce emergency temporary m4a provisions into covid stimulus bill via his role as chairman of budget committee, rather than the relevant alternative being "do nothing" 2) basically no one ive seen except you was saying we should do trojan horse m4a via bernie instead of demanding a house vote on m4a, so the characterizations of ftv detractors are almost entirely accurate 3) ftv isnt just about the speakership election it's about demanding m4a at all via house vote
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Jan 25, 2021 06:44
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DoomTrainPhD posted:Pelosi might be a shitheel lib, but she isn’t stupid. If they forced the vote she absolutely would vote for M4A to save herself knowing full well that it wouldn’t pass in the senate. Which would piss off her donors, who are insanely stupid
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Jan 25, 2021 06:45
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cenotaph posted:People at the time said that there should be a greater ask, and that Pelosi should be opposed regardless, and nobody thought it would deliver m4a. And, again, at the time, Bernie's plan wasn't in the conversation. For gently caress's sake. it's not exactly a surprise that bernie would become the budget committee chair, or that he'd use those powers to support m4a or whatever. i had assumed that all the people arguing about how to best push for m4a were aware of the balance of power, and so on, so i didn't even know this wasn't "in the conversation"
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Jan 25, 2021 06:45
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https://twitter.com/Nitzky89/status/1353564415933755393?s=19 Ah yes the Democrats would never stand aside and let cops beat on people, right? How the gently caress is this a conspiracy theory? The entire executive branch of Minneapolis state government was Democrat and they murdered George Floyd! Jen Psaki outright admitted that they know Federal troops are brutalizing Portland protesters and they're not doing anything to stop them!
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Jan 25, 2021 06:45
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Yinlock posted:my plan was "make pelosi bring m4a to the floor then oust her anyway" And it's an opportunity to get on the loving news! Publicly not voting for Pelosi invites attention! If there can be no progress under a bourgeois government then the sole purpose of supporting socialist candidates is messaging, which is what most people here have been arguing, but we are still subject to people tut-tutting about how this or that parliamentary tactic is doomed to fail. NO poo poo.
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Jan 25, 2021 06:45
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I think it has less to do with the fraud squad not having spines. they did what they want and what they want is access and career growth. I think it was fraudulent all along.
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Jan 25, 2021 06:46
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Finicums Wake posted:it's not exactly a surprise that bernie would become the budget committee chair, or that he'd use those powers to support m4a or whatever. i had assumed that all the people arguing about how to best push for m4a were aware of the balance of power, and so on, so i didn't even know this wasn't "in the conversation" nobody knew that the dems were going to take the senate before Christmas when this started how loving dense are you?
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Jan 25, 2021 06:47
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Bernie being budget chair is completely irrelevant because he has said multiple times he will be a good lapdog for Biden.
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Jan 25, 2021 06:49
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gay_crimes posted:I think it has less to do with the fraud squad not having spines. they did what they want and what they want is access and career growth. I think it was fraudulent all along. they didn't even get access or career growth out of it though, pelosi explicitly denied them their precious committee seats and laughed ftv would actually be better for their careers but they're subservient to power so
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Jan 25, 2021 06:49
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Yinlock posted:Which would piss off her donors, who are insanely stupid lol like she wouldn't call them up first and placate them.
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Jan 25, 2021 06:49
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bernie might make some ads or tweets about how we should do good things, but he won't go further than that. he's part of the problem now.
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Jan 25, 2021 06:50
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Excuse me saying all these mean things to AOC is violence and I have reported you all to the appropriate authorities
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Jan 25, 2021 06:50
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It's incredibly how angry libs get at the idea of even faking helping people.
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Jan 25, 2021 06:50
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Finicums Wake posted:the left has limited resources, so figuring out which course of action of preferable to spend them on is better than saying "do this, since it's better than doing nothing" what resources would have been spent if a vote had been brought to the floor? what resources are still or newly available to us since it wasn’t? I keep seeing this talk of cost or risk and never any specifics. bjg tried at ask seder something along the same lines, even framing it as ‘design your own ask instead of an m4a ftv’ in exchange for the speakership vote and he sorta wriggled around it without engaging.
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Jan 25, 2021 06:50
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DoomTrainPhD posted:lol like she wouldn't call them up first and placate them. No I mean really stupid Harris had to keep walking back anything remotely progressive she ever said, and she's incapable of saying anything without donor approval in the first place
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Jan 25, 2021 06:51
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loving political capital isn't real
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Jan 25, 2021 06:51
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cenotaph posted:nobody knew that the dems were going to take the senate before Christmas when this started how loving dense are you? that's true, it was still up in the air until pretty recently. but all this means is that FTV people's 'plan' amounted in asking pelosi to bring a bill to the house floor, with no prospect of it passing there, and no idea whetehr it would pass in the senate. idk how this makes FTV look any less dumb or likely to do anything
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Jan 25, 2021 06:52
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:loving political capital isn't real no, see, house activities and senate activities draw from a common pool of action points and you only have so many to spend.
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Jan 25, 2021 06:53
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MonsieurChoc posted:It's incredibly how angry libs get at the idea of even faking helping people. an infinitely growing  as you hear that the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation specifically stepped in to prevent Oxford University from pulling a Salk and giving away their vaccine for freein the middle of worldwide pandemic, there is still a buck to be made
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Jan 25, 2021 06:53
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Finicums Wake posted:that's true, it was still up in the air until pretty recently. but all this means is that FTV people's 'plan' amounted in asking pelosi to bring a bill to the house floor, with no prospect of it passing there, and no idea whetehr it would pass in the senate. idk how this makes FTV look any less dumb or likely to do anything this has been explained to you multiple times it is with great regret that I intone c-spam's sacred text: Shut The gently caress Up, Liberal
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Jan 25, 2021 06:53
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Finicums Wake posted:that's true, it was still up in the air until pretty recently. but all this means is that FTV people's 'plan' amounted in asking pelosi to bring a bill to the house floor, with no prospect of it passing there, and no idea whetehr it would pass in the senate. idk how this makes FTV look any less dumb or likely to do anything Lol classic idiot lib still doesn't realize FTV was extremely successful in exposing morons like you
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Jan 25, 2021 06:55
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Let me tell you something you already know. The world ain’t all sunshine and rainbows. It’s a very mean and nasty place and I don’t care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain’t about how hard ya hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward. That’s how winning is done! Now if you know what you’re worth then go out and get what you’re worth. But ya gotta be willing to take the hits, and not pointing fingers saying you ain’t where you wanna be because of him, or her, or anybody! Cowards do that and that ain’t you! You’re better than that!
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Jan 25, 2021 06:55
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A dumbass double whammy tonight! Libs are on fire recently with their poo poo opinions
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Jan 25, 2021 06:56
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Victory Position posted:an infinitely growing loving arch-evil poo poo.
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Jan 25, 2021 06:57
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Victory Position posted:an infinitely growing pre-election I remember biden being asked if the vaccine should be free and boy could he not ignore that question hard enough
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Jan 25, 2021 06:58
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