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Edit: redundant
Sham bam bamina! has a new favorite as of 21:54 on Jan 23, 2021 |
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Jan 23, 2021 21:10
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I had to read shakespeare in school and it was crap.
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Jan 23, 2021 21:12
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OwlFancier posted:I had to read shakespeare in school and it was crap. Just in case this isn't a joke, go watch or listen to it instead. What a difference that makes.
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Jan 23, 2021 21:21
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OwlFancier posted:I had to read [...] in school and it was crap. This is generally true of most assigned reading in high school and honestly I've heard so much of it that I think high school English classes are probably doing more to hurt people's impressions of literature than anything else. Then again, I did work for a couple years as a reading teacher whose job was essentially to un-gently caress my students' perceptions of reading and make them realize that you can actually engage with literature instead of just shotgunning it the weekend before the test and forgetting afterward, so maybe I have an unfavorable view of standard English class curricula. Also Shakespeare is good and when it sucks it's usually because it's being treated as ~high art~ because it's old instead of being treated like Elizabethan Transformers.
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Jan 23, 2021 21:26
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Yeah, Shakespeare is intended to be performed; it's much worse just being read. Go see a play.
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Jan 23, 2021 21:26
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Shakespeare is absolutely better when performed but the language is still pretty loving dense if you're fourteen years old and it's four hundred years later. Having the actors hamming it up just gets that 14-year-old to understand about 60% of it instead of 20%. I think the worst possible way to absorb it though has to be getting a whole class of 14 year olds to stutter through a couple of pages out loud as the characters. Ooooomg
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Jan 23, 2021 21:33
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To be fair, you are probably going to get only about 60-70% of Shakespeare at best because the meanings of words in the English language have changed substantially since then. This is not even in the sense of "oh you won't know what a vocabulary word means", it's common words, the language has just gone through that much change in 500 years. If you're actually reading Shakespeare instead of just watching it, you absolutely need a copy that's annotated, or one that's got a modern English version on one side and the Shakespearean version on the other.
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Jan 23, 2021 21:48
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean I think the problem is people refuse to deal with Dante's inferno for what it was and it's kind if the same with Shakespeare, putting it up on a pedestal it really doesn't belong on instead of looking at the context of what it was. Though that's more a problem with it in general it seems to be more a vechile for kids these days rather than the more realistic those were the pizzas of their days Djeser posted:Also Shakespeare is good and when it sucks it's usually because it's being treated as ~high art~ because it's old instead of being treated like Elizabethan Transformers. nonathlon posted:If I recollect, the high/low distinction is a relatively recent distinction although pre-online. Mark Twain spoke about sailors reading Shakespeare (which in turn has a lot of crowd-pleasing moments for the mob).
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Jan 23, 2021 21:49
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Sham bam bamina! posted:I really hate this received wisdom that Shakespeare somehow wasn't a singularly great writer just because he was popular and successful in his day. He had broad appeal, so he was just the 16th century's blockbuster schlock. Don't put him on an undeserved pedestal like he was some kind of genius or anything. It's a powerfully ironic elitism masquerading as egalitarianism – if ordinary people liked it, it can't be that special. sham i am desperately begging you to stop defending the honour of classic literature in this PYF thread on something awful. i am sorry. shakespeare was not the transformers. he was the rick and morty.
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Jan 23, 2021 23:31
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The only good Shakespeare play was the movie adaptation of Titus Andronicus.Sham bam bamina! posted:I really hate this received wisdom that Shakespeare somehow wasn't a singularly great writer just because he was popular and successful in his day. He had broad appeal, so he was just the 16th century's blockbuster schlock. Don't put him on an undeserved pedestal like he was some kind of genius or anything. It's a powerfully ironic elitism masquerading as egalitarianism – if ordinary people liked it, it can't be that special. I think it was Engels who said the goal of Communist education should be for every worker to be able to read Hegel, ergo Hegel was the Marvel Cinematic Universe of his time, I'm very smart for saying all things are actually the same. steinrokkan has a new favorite as of 23:44 on Jan 23, 2021 |
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Jan 23, 2021 23:41
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there's actually zero difference between bad and bad things. you illiterate. you loving ignoramus
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Jan 23, 2021 23:58
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Yeah, sure, I'll go see a play. Except I won't because I'm an out-of-shape redneck with untailored clothes who can't afford a hundred bucks to go be given the stinkeye by everyone in the theater.
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Jan 24, 2021 00:53
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What exactly do you think theatres are like? lol
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Jan 24, 2021 01:01
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It is pretty funny that we're talking about Shakespeare and Dante in this, the bad books thread.
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Jan 24, 2021 01:10
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I'm gonna go to a play and wear a monocle just so it can pop off when I see John Lee
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Jan 24, 2021 01:15
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Sisal Two-Step posted:Authors don't have to bother fleshing out characters in fanfic when they're introduced, because all of that was done in the original work. None of these characters add anything or do anything to impact the plot but it doesn't matter, because they're the Cullens and they need to be there because it's fanfic. loving Jose basically disappears after the first book. This is a huge part of why most fanfiction I don't like reading doesn't resonate with me. For the most part, those characters are treated like deadweight, because on the one hand, you need to have them around to mesh with the setting you're writing from. But on the other hand, you can't do too much with them, because then you run the risk of the people in the community you're writing for accuse you of writing their favorite character out of character or not respecting them enough to include them/do something with them, even if your story doesn't call for them. At its worst, you essentially write something in a dead world that's not allowed to change, because the culture and community surrounding that property that you love and want to experiment with writing for absolutely does not want it to happen. I can imagine it's quite stifling to struggle with!
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Jan 24, 2021 02:12
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In middle school I rescued an absolute brick of a book from the library sale table, a rambling sword and sorcery called The Stone of Farewell. I didn't learn untill later that it's actually the middle book of a trilogy. I remember liking it but also being confused by how sprawling and disjointed it seemed, probably because I hadn't read the first one. Honestly the most I recall about it is being weirded out that it had a glossary, which I'd never seen in a novel before.
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Jan 24, 2021 06:36
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I made that mistake a couple of times, once was with Garth Nix's Abhorsen trilogy, accidentally bought the third book because there was nothing on it that indicated it was part of a series or where in the series it went. Which didn't hamper my enjoyment because it is a good fun trilogy anyway but did make it a bit confusing at first because it is directly a follow on to the second book, while the first is pretty standalone. I also did it with some... weird series called the well of echoes or something? I bought a book in it called geomancer and it was just a bunch of weird fantasy poo poo interspersed with all the characters loving each other, seems like not only was it part of a series but part of multiple series set in the same universe and after skipping all the loving because it was boring I just didn't finish it cos none of it made sense. In hindsight I think it was mostly the author being horny to be honest.
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Jan 24, 2021 06:45
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OwlFancier posted:I made that mistake a couple of times, once was with Garth Nix's Abhorsen trilogy, accidentally bought the third book because there was nothing on it that indicated it was part of a series or where in the series it went. Which didn't hamper my enjoyment because it is a good fun trilogy anyway but did make it a bit confusing at first because it is directly a follow on to the second book, while the first is pretty standalone. I did the exact same thing with the Old Kingdom! I thought that surely the series about people called Abhorsen started with the book called Abhorsen.
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Jan 24, 2021 06:54
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Apparently the subsequent books are pretty bad but I haven't read them, I really liked the setting of the ones I did read though.
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Jan 24, 2021 06:56
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Worst "bought the wrong goddamn book" mistake I made was buying Belgarath The Sorcerer, not knowing it was a novel set pre, during, and post 2 different book sets. I managed to spoil about ten books all in one read. That kinda hurt.
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Jan 24, 2021 06:57
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OwlFancier posted:Apparently the subsequent books are pretty bad but I haven't read them, I really liked the setting of the ones I did read though. Yeah they're just not as good, don't capture the same magic. Plus the author tries to pair almost every character off by the end, even when two characters don't even meet until the last page. It's weird.
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Jan 24, 2021 06:59
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I read A Spell for Chameleon as a kid and then immediately bought the wrong next book (Castle Roogna, iirc?), got confused, and stopped reading the Xanth series entirely. In retrospect, the Xanth books not being clearly numbered did me a great service.
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Jan 24, 2021 08:23
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Same, in that exact order, though I got the first one as a Christmas present. And very much same on that being super fortunate for me.
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Jan 24, 2021 08:40
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OwlFancier posted:Apparently the subsequent books are pretty bad but I haven't read them, I really liked the setting of the ones I did read though. I read Clariel which is like a prequel about a one-off character from one of the Abhorsen books and I thought it was all right, though at the same time kind of unnecessary. It was interesting to see a YA book where the ending went "...and the teen girl never got to go off and do the things she dreamed of doing, because she had set herself down the path of power and corruption and would never know peace." I do think the main trilogy of Lirael/Sabriel/Abhorsen is some pretty solid teen-flavored pulp fantasy. I remember them sticking out to me especially because of the aesthetics. OwlFancier posted:I also did it with some... weird series called the well of echoes or something? I bought a book in it called geomancer and it was just a bunch of weird fantasy poo poo interspersed with all the characters loving each other, seems like not only was it part of a series but part of multiple series set in the same universe and after skipping all the loving because it was boring I just didn't finish it cos none of it made sense. You know it's funny, I thought you were talking about the Well World books by Jack L Chalker, which I'm pretty sure I've talked about here--they're incredibly premise-heavy 70's/80's sci fi books that feel like the author's idea for an RPG setting that he mashed up with his fetishes for mind control and turning unwilling women into horses. The premise, that there's a reality-altering supercomputer-planet composed of hexagon patchwork habitats for hundreds of different possible alien species, had a very pulp sci-fi "crazy menagerie" feeling, and that managed to keep me going juuust about until the sexy assassin woman with venom fingernails got turned into a genetically subservient half-donkey and became obsessed with finding a way to have half-donkey babies. Anyway it turns out it must be some other series you're thinking about. loving sf/f authors.
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Jan 24, 2021 08:57
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I started The Sandman series on Season of Mists and was blown away how it seemed like a fully realized universe with such a deep backstory that was only hinted at. I felt so stupid when I saw it was actually a solid 1/3 of the way into the series. So I went back....and found that it pretty much starts like that as well. Though I do feel I did myself a favor as the beginning of the series is a bit rough. Edit: to be clear The Sandman was my first attempt at reading a graphic novel series. I was so unfamiliar with comic books I didn't even know it was in the DC universe. I was really thrown when I went back to the first novels in the series and saw poo poo like Martian Manhunter show up. I wasn't even really sure who he was. Had I not read SoM I would have thought the series was going to be more entwined with Batman and stuff like that. Darkhold has a new favorite as of 13:31 on Jan 24, 2021 |
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Jan 24, 2021 13:23
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Darkhold posted:I started The Sandman series on Season of Mists and was blown away how it seemed like a fully realized universe with such a deep backstory that was only hinted at. I felt so stupid when I saw it was actually a solid 1/3 of the way into the series. So I went back....and found that it pretty much starts like that as well. I read Sandman according to which volumes showed up in my local library, so I actually started with The Kindly Ones. Honestly it still felt awesome slowly putting together the story as I read more and more of them.
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Jan 24, 2021 15:55
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OwlFancier posted:I made that mistake a couple of times, once was with Garth Nix's Abhorsen trilogy, accidentally bought the third book because there was nothing on it that indicated it was part of a series or where in the series it went. Which didn't hamper my enjoyment because it is a good fun trilogy anyway but did make it a bit confusing at first because it is directly a follow on to the second book, while the first is pretty standalone. No one ever talks about these books! I loved them at 14 and I love them now and no one can tell me they're bad! They are about humanity steadily losing World War 0.5 against dimensional invaders or are they, magic is mostly industrial and everyone is fresh meat for the hellwar. Also there are subspecies of human from other worlds with scores to settle. It's actually three quartets (!) and counting. The first is probably the best and also the most traditional fantasy, and I don't think it has a word of bad horny in it. Geomancer is part of the second, which isn't dangerous horny but probably needs an annual inspection to make sure or something. Half the characters are feuding/loving twentysomethings who grew up at the same tank factory. The third one reaches unacceptable horny levels including the old howler of the main character constantly thinking about her breasts. Ian man come on get it together you were cool  E: It's Well of Echoes by Ian Irvine. Furthernore the Achim are as bad as loving Ted Faro gently caress those guys Strategic Tea has a new favorite as of 17:24 on Jan 24, 2021 |
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Jan 24, 2021 17:19
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My record for "starting a series in the middle" is finding The Sea Peoples by SM Stirling. It is #14 of a 15-book series.
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Jan 24, 2021 20:31
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Just in case this isn't a joke, go watch or listen to it instead. What a difference that makes. The recentish adaptation of Coriolanus with Ralph Fiennes is really well-done and a great start for anyone who wants to watch an adaptation of one of the less-well known plays.
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Jan 24, 2021 20:41
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John Lee posted:Yeah, sure, I'll go see a play. You can watch entire Shakespeare performances on YouTube for free you dolt.
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Jan 24, 2021 20:42
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I once had the opposite experience of ruining a series by going back an reading the first before the later novels. An uncle gave me Small Gods, Nightwatch, and Soul Music; I realized they were all part of a series, and got Color of Magic from the library so I could start at the beginning. Its not like it was terrible, but it didn't make me want to read more. It was like six months later when I was hard up for new books that I went ahead an picked up Small Gods and ended up burning through it an the other two. I told my uncle about it the next time I saw him, and he laughed because he deliberately picked what he thought the strongest discworld books were to get me into them.
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Jan 24, 2021 21:55
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When I was a kid, I read my friend's copy of Artemis Fowl: The Eternity Code, thought it was really cool, then went back and read the first two books, only to find that I had started with the good one.
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Jan 24, 2021 22:16
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Does this count: I get a lot of ads for terrible fiction, but I've been going OH NO, MY VULVA for the past little bit and giggling over it.
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Jan 25, 2021 17:57
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"My body feels different, so I reach between my legs to touch myself." As would we all, naturally. Edit: I also like that it's a complete З book series.
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Jan 25, 2021 18:12
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RoboRodent posted:I get a lot of ads for terrible fiction, but I've been going OH NO, MY VULVA for the past little bit and giggling over it. Is this a man who has magically lost his dick (in presumably, the dick-transfiguring perfect waters), or a woman who has magically lost the internal parts of her vagina? Is this a preview for the novel? Is Trent's dick also missing? I have so many questions.
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Jan 25, 2021 18:14
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Djeser posted:You know it's funny, I thought you were talking about the Well World books by Jack L Chalker, which I'm pretty sure I've talked about here--they're incredibly premise-heavy 70's/80's sci fi books that feel like the author's idea for an RPG setting that he mashed up with his fetishes for mind control and turning unwilling women into horses. The premise, that there's a reality-altering supercomputer-planet composed of hexagon patchwork habitats for hundreds of different possible alien species, had a very pulp sci-fi "crazy menagerie" feeling, and that managed to keep me going juuust about until the sexy assassin woman with venom fingernails got turned into a genetically subservient half-donkey and became obsessed with finding a way to have half-donkey babies. No it's some weird fantasy thing set on multiple worlds but looking back at it through my fuzzy memory and with many years of internet poisoning I think the author might have just been too early for deviantart or something. Main thing I remember is apparently the main setting has "breeding factories" which are basically some sort of brothel where you are supposed to get pregnant to make soldiers for the war effort... Also one of the main characters has a psychic childlike girlfriend who can't wear clothes because she is "too sensitive" and they gently caress a lot. It's very weird. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Well_of_Echoes Strategic Tea posted:No one ever talks about these books! I loved them at 14 and I love them now and no one can tell me they're bad! Oh gently caress I am glad I am not the only person who experienced that series. I've never heard anyone else talk about them either. I am amazed that it somehow gets worse. Like I did sort of like the bits of the setting I remembered otherwise, the weird techno magic setting seemed interesting but the book just kept making hard rights into hornytown every five minutes and I got sick of skipping. OwlFancier has a new favorite as of 18:24 on Jan 25, 2021 |
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Jan 25, 2021 18:19
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In more body-parts related fiction I rolled my eyes and noped right the gently caress out of a story that began:quote:A demon was eating my face. Yes, an actual published, printed book. Some editor looked upon this, thought it was good and (presumably) paid money for it.
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Jan 25, 2021 18:23
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Gats Akimbo posted:In more body-parts related fiction I rolled my eyes and noped right the gently caress out of a story that began: is there a patient zero for this wink-nod-ain't-this-humorous style of narration, because i see it often and almost never done well skullcrack city was one of the more tolerable examples
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Jan 25, 2021 18:29
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Nah, having a self-aware narrative voice isn't particularly new, and in is in fact very old. The Odyssey has a little aside where it reassures the reader that even though Odysseus just saw Heracles in the underworld, it was just his ghost because he's actually on Olympus with the gods. It's a joke structure that's worked before, and I know some authors have made entire bits out of doing "..and by ___ I mean ____" jokes, but "...and by face I mean my clit" is just an abysmal puncline.
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Jan 25, 2021 18:44
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