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This is my high score so far for Analysis ...yes, this followed me doing a losing move
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Jan 21, 2021 04:26
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Artelier posted:This is my high score so far for Analysis they momentarily hallucinated a white bishop on e4 
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Jan 21, 2021 06:15
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  The start and end of a fun 11 move checks to checkmate sequence. Probably not forced but eh, I'll take it.
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Jan 22, 2021 09:55
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From Duda-Carlsen just now. Black to play and win.
Hand Knit fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Jan 22, 2021 |
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Jan 22, 2021 17:38
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Hand Knit posted:From Duda-Carlsen just now. Black to play and win. It doesn't show for me.
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Jan 22, 2021 17:41
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Zwabu posted:It doesn't show for me. Better now? imgur hasn't been working for me lately so I'm trying alternatives.
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Jan 22, 2021 17:47
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Hand Knit posted:From Duda-Carlsen just now. Black to play and win. Nf4 then white does either Bc3 or Be3 Nd3-fork C8+ Kf7 I can't really figure out how to force it beyond that because I'm not sure what the obvious move would be with the second white rook. But I think that's the direction? 
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Jan 22, 2021 22:41
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former glory posted:
1...Nf4 2.Rc8+ Kf7 3. Be3
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Jan 22, 2021 23:11
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The amount of almost decent options white has after 1...Nf4 are hurting my head. It almost looks like white can get away with 2. Bxb6 Nd3, 3. bxa5 Nxe1, 4. Bxe1, followed by b4 and Bc3 soon after and maybe play for a draw, but I think black can just take the bishop, leading to 2. Bxb6 Rxb6, 3. gxf4 Rd4 and even though black is down a pawn, theyre going to get it back with a winning structure anyways. And thats just one of many lines where it looks equal or nearly equal in material but white is left in an awful, tangled position. Is there a killing blow to any of this or is the bad position the point? e: Nvm I think I found it. Bishop is frozen for at least one turn until the knight moves so Kf7 is probably the strongest move. I discounted it because I thought that 2. Be3 would defuse the situation but the knight can just take, and 3...Rd2 is way too strong to allow that exchange. e2: or white just moves a rook instead. gah Control Volume fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Jan 23, 2021 |
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Jan 22, 2021 23:53
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Hand Knit posted:
Agh! Tough one.
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Jan 22, 2021 23:56
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former glory posted:Agh! Tough one. Wait, is that actually the answer? I saw it but discarded it because I couldnt find a way to force the position into a material advantage, just a decent positional one. e: Looking at it even more, the e-file rook is frozen too since it has to protect against the e2 fork, so Kf7 still intuitively feels like the best move but I dont have the brain power to calculate all the different variations. Im just going to assume its the answer and go on with my day Control Volume fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Jan 23, 2021 |
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Jan 23, 2021 00:19
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Control Volume posted:Wait, is that actually the answer? I saw it but discarded it because I couldnt find a way to force the position into a material advantage, just a decent positional one. No, that was me giving a refutation of former glory's proposed solution. Here's a hint: Black would love play Nb4, creating the double attack of Rxd4 and Nd3.
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Jan 23, 2021 01:42
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Hand Knit posted:Black would love play Nb4, creating the double attack of Rxd4 and Nd3. Rxd4 is refuted by moving the bishop away and the subsequent Nd3 is spoiled with a back rank check. So I guess... move the king first? Kf7? and then white's only play really is to move bishop to the pawn-protected c3 which takes away Nb4. Even with that hint I'm lost, lol. But seriously what's with the time on those clocks.
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Jan 23, 2021 07:54
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Is there a line that I am missing on this analysis? I had forked the Rook and Queen so my opponent moved the Queen away but the analysis says the better move is to allow the Queen to be captured then retake the Knight. 
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Jan 23, 2021 14:53
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madey posted:Is there a line that I am missing on this analysis? I had forked the Rook and Queen so my opponent moved the Queen away but the analysis says the better move E: nevermind I'm wrong I think it's Nxe7+ Kh8 Nc6; after taking the bishop with check, putting the knight back on c6 is a double attack again with the e file open for the rook to attack the queen E: oops the queen can just take the knight on c6 lol nevermind kumba fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Jan 23, 2021 |
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Jan 23, 2021 15:05
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madey posted:Is there a line that I am missing on this analysis? I had forked the Rook and Queen so my opponent moved the Queen away but the analysis says the better move What are the evaluations the machine is giving? This is just the difference between losing the queen two different ways. 1.Nxe7+ Kh8 2.Ng6+
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Jan 23, 2021 15:35
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madey posted:Is there a line that I am missing on this analysis? I had forked the Rook and Queen so my opponent moved the Queen away but the analysis says the better move Is the engine seeing some kind of line like Nxe7+ Kh8 Ng6+ fxg6 Rxe8 Rxe8 as the result of moving the queen? That leaves white down a knight and a rook but black down a queen and a bishop, so you've traded rook for queen. Maybe the engine thinks that's superior to just trading knight for queen because it leaves black with more material instead of trading down closer to a clearly losing endgame?
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Jan 23, 2021 15:44
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Apsyrtes posted:Rxd4 is refuted by moving the bishop away and the subsequent Nd3 is spoiled with a back rank check. So I guess... move the king first? Kf7? and then white's only play really is to move bishop to the pawn-protected c3 which takes away Nb4. Even with that hint I'm lost, lol. Im fairly certain its Kf7 since white cant move out of the discovered attack on the bishop. I think its just a question of how to respond to some of whites weirder moves, because I cant think of a good response to 2. Re4 Nb4 3. Bc3. I think 3...f4 maybe works, but that leads to 4. Bxb4 axb4, and then after white moves the rook youre likely playing 5...Rd2 which will guaranteed pick up b2 and b3, but for the price of tripled pawns. Its a material advantage that looks awful to play, but I guess if youre the best in the world thats not an issue? If Carlsen played Kf7 its more likely that Duda played one of the many bad moves due to time pressure and just lost immediately instead.
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Jan 23, 2021 16:29
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Hand Knit posted:What are the evaluations the machine is giving? This is just the difference between losing the queen two different ways. 1.Nxe7+ Kh8 2.Ng6+ Thanks, that makes sense. I think I was so in love with my fork I wasn't taking in what the analysis was saying. The difference was only .1 between the two moves.
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Jan 23, 2021 16:29
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anyone available for some light coaching? I'm around 850 on Chess.com and looking to improve. I think with the sheer number of resources online it's hard for me to focus on one at a time, and I don't know how to practice effectively. So far I've been farting around with the king's indian, fried liver attack, and caro kan but that's it!!
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Jan 24, 2021 05:14
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Well. This is a checkmate.
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Jan 25, 2021 03:25
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Artelier posted:Well. This is a checkmate. he’ll yeah smothered mate ftw!
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Jan 25, 2021 03:40
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I've done a few correspondence games now and I've had 2 or 3 where my opponent who isn't very highly rated has managed to open in a perfect way. I'm at move 12 and wondering if I should resign - it's so perfectly covering all avenues. And then the guy just blunders away the queen or loses a minor piece. Maybe I should learn a better way to open that isn't just king's pawn. knight, knight, and then hope for the best.
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Jan 26, 2021 15:48
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former glory posted:I've done a few correspondence games now and I've had 2 or 3 where my opponent who isn't very highly rated has managed to open in a perfect way. I'm at move 12 and wondering if I should resign - it's so perfectly covering all avenues. And then the guy just blunders away the queen or loses a minor piece. Maybe I should learn a better way to open that isn't just king's pawn. knight, knight, and then hope for the best. if you’re doing it on lichess, an opening book is allowed and built right in to the correspondence ui i heard icc???? maybe a different one allows you to use an engine for every move which doesn’t make sense at all to me. idk about anywhere else
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Jan 26, 2021 15:56
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Oh no kidding? I am on lichess and didn't realize there was an opening book allowed/integrated in the actual live games. I figured they may have been using something. Not sure how I feel about that, honestly. I guess it would be good to use it if others are, but I feel like it's a bad habit to get into.
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Jan 26, 2021 16:45
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I tend to agree because it makes new players think that they need to remember 10+ lines of openings to play chess.
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Jan 26, 2021 17:20
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apophenium posted:I could use a few chess.com buddies. Learning as best I can but I'm still down around 500. If you want another daily game add me! Added, I'm moldyfood. Just cracked 700.
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Jan 26, 2021 17:33
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former glory posted:Not sure how I feel about that, honestly. I guess it would be good to use it if others are, but I feel like it's a bad habit to get into. Databases have always been permissible as part of correspondence chess, since there was really no way to prevent them from being used. Similar reasons are leading organizations to make engine use permissible. At this point, it's just part of what correspondence chess is. My approach has been to just not bother with that sort of stuff and accept that my correspondence rating is going to be a few hundred points lower.
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Jan 26, 2021 17:33
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What's the best way to use books? I reserved a copy of Chess Openings for Black from my library and have started going through and we're literally to 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 and the permutations from there are overwhelming. Not to mention I'm horrible at reading chess notation and so have to painstakingly work with an analysis board to run through each line they talk about. How do you retain? I'm very amateur - ~1000 blitz and ~1300 daily on chess.com and am not sure if it's dumb for me to try to utilize books like this vs. doing puzzles / grinding out games. I know for jiu jitsu, which has similar endless permutations depending on what your opponent does, some of the best instructionals I have used are set up more as as reference so you can go to specific positions/techniques you're struggling with and go through different responses. But chess has way more potential variations in openings I'm not even sure if something like that would be feasible?
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Jan 26, 2021 18:48
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butros posted:What's the best way to use books? I reserved a copy of Chess Openings for Black from my library and have started going through and we're literally to I'd recommend just playing moves that make sense to you based on general considerations (control the center of the board, develop your pieces, protect your king) and potential tactics you see on the board. Then after the game take a look at a database and see what moves in the opening were common or uncommon and if you picked any moves that aren't played by strong players or that lead to bad results. If so, spend a few minutes looking at alternatives and thinking about why they might be superior to what you played to improve your knowledge and intuition for next time. If not, your openings didn't hurt you in that game and you can move on to other things. Over time, this approach will solidify into a repertoire that 1) addresses what you actually see in games, and 2) matches your own intuition and understanding. Memorizing lines is a big waste of time until you are much stronger, IMO.
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Jan 26, 2021 19:08
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butros posted:What's the best way to use books? I reserved a copy of Chess Openings for Black from my library and have started going through and we're literally to this is exactly what I mean.
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Jan 26, 2021 19:12
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I'm also amateur level attempting to learn some Caro Kann. I find that playing the lines on a physical board is mandatory, especially as black since the book has diagrams with white at the bottom. I also go back and forth between playing online and reading to see where I messed up. I also quit playing 1. e4 e5 as black because that poo poo is hard.
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Jan 26, 2021 19:12
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Hand Knit posted:Databases have always been permissible as part of correspondence chess, since there was really no way to prevent them from being used. Similar reasons are leading organizations to make engine use permissible. At this point, it's just part of what correspondence chess is. that's really awful. I mean I have studied the principles of openings and will review the book moves after a game is over, but during a game I feel honor bound to just play with no aides. Otherwise my opponent might as well just play a bot No more correspondence on lichess for me I guess (I am mostly playing chess.com right now anyway--was off 12 hours for downgrading my trial to gold before the payment went through OOPS)
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Jan 26, 2021 23:15
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I mean, if you’re hanging around at 1200, how many engine-using players do you expect to be facing?
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Jan 26, 2021 23:21
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Honestly at lower levels it's probably an advantage if your opponent has access to an opening book. Just go out of book around move 4 or so. Some slight microscopic theoretical disadvantage you incur will be totally unexploitable in practice by players picking moves blindly from a book.
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Jan 26, 2021 23:44
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Bilirubin posted:that's really awful. Chess.com does the exact same thing
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Jan 27, 2021 00:11
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teppichporsche posted:Chess.com does the exact same thing I had assumed it was tracking the opening moves for subsequent exploration, not that I could look and see what I should do next. I don't like it. Ah well.
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Jan 27, 2021 00:30
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fart simpson posted:i heard icc???? maybe a different one allows you to use an engine for every move which doesn’t make sense at all to me. idk about anywhere else As Hand Knit alludes to, correspondence chess has always been about using all tools available including days of reflection time to choose the best possible moves. This moving from printed books of theory and historical games to digital databases, tablebases, and engines was a natural progression in my opinion in correspondence chess's attempt to be the highest level of chess humanly possible. And that is also why the most important thing correspondence chess does in the chess world is be a source for novelties for the 2700s of the world to play in classical. I'm a titled Correspondence Chess Master (CCM) on ICCF, and steadily working on becoming an IM. Happy to answer any questions about that world.
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Jan 27, 2021 04:45
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cool a second titled player itt my pledge to my fellow goons: I will not consult a book or engine to plot out my blunders in our tournaments. I have plenty of brain power to do that on my own. 
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Jan 27, 2021 07:04
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Do official correspondence games have separate categories for human only play and ones that include engines? If it's seeking to show the epitome of chess, including engines, I don't see how it doesn't turn into an escalating war of people throwing money at stockfish instances.
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Jan 27, 2021 07:09
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