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Anyway to me the conspiracy poo poo isn't that different from normal social functions. It's to reaffirm themselves and their community that they're still one of them. Actual belief is meaningless for this purpose but as we've seen before, this can lead to other people not getting the memo and taking it seriously. It's just that this reaffirmation in conspiracy theory groups is often done loudly and proudly because their secret knowledge sets them apart from the mainstream and also often elevates them above the sheeple. And it's also a big signal to the more exploitative types that they'll buy anything you sell.
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Jan 26, 2021 21:25
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Argas posted:Didn't the modern flat earth poo poo start out as a parody that some conspiracy theorists took as serious then ran with it? Yes, I believe so.
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Jan 26, 2021 21:26
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Argas posted:Didn't the modern flat earth poo poo start out as a parody that some conspiracy theorists took as serious then ran with it? Literal biblical interpretation up until around the 80's then got popular with conspiracy theorists, I think.
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Jan 26, 2021 21:41
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mds2 posted:Yes, I believe so. I think so too. Same way that 9/11 truthers started out with Loose Change that the kid who made it admitted that he was trying to make fiction or some poo poo but since it was on You Tube and the government and Fake News Media said it was stupid bullshit, that just meant all of it was 100% true.
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Jan 26, 2021 22:05
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Argas posted:Didn't the modern flat earth poo poo start out as a parody that some conspiracy theorists took as serious then ran with it? Circa 2000 the Flat Earth Society was a joke website somebody ran from his house. He had a picture of their “world headquarters” on the site that was a shack in the desert and meant to make fun of Kent Hovind, whose world creationism society hq was a trailer-park house on a concrete slab in the desert. I remember my high-school physics teacher showing it to us before class one day and telling the story. When I was in college, I looked it up and it was gone. In 2009, a new group registered the domain: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/library/pressreleases/flat_earth_society_press_release.pdf They’re the ones (or some of the ones) who have been succeeding at a serious flat-earth movement.
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Jan 26, 2021 22:14
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God I haven't heard the name Kent Hovind since 2009 youtube.
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Jan 26, 2021 22:19
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:God I haven't heard the name Kent Hovind since 2009 youtube. Didn't he just get out of jail for tax fraud? As in less than a year ago?
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Jan 26, 2021 22:21
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I know this loving guy. I used to see all the big youtube atheists talk about him and debunk his poo poo. Maybe they were just debunking pre recorded videos from before his jail time. Or I. Just remembering the timeline incorrectly here.
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Jan 26, 2021 22:40
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Guavanaut posted:I think you could probably talk them into believing in relativity as long as you didn't call it that, because otherwise moral relativity or something. I see you also are familiar with Andy Schlafly's Conservapedia.
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Jan 26, 2021 22:40
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Anyone remember the conspiracy RPG Dark Matter? I have an idea for a campaign where the bad guys are the conspiracy theorists. Like you have a Flat Earth terrorist group and a transvestigator serial killer.
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Jan 26, 2021 23:14
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I'd like to raise two points: 1) Anyone who knows a sufficiency of pilots would soon dispense with the idea that all of them are sane and controllable enough to keep the government's secrets. I was a pilot, one of co-workers once tried to talk to me about the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and several others believe COVID is a hoax. There is absolutely no chance, if there were a conspiracy of this nature, that pilots could be convinced to shut the gently caress up about it. This also applies to chemtrails, of course. 2) On the subject of "it was started as purposefully fanciful bullshit and took off because people are really, really dumb" I also direct you to the supposed fluoride conspiracies. I've looked it up, and as far as I can tell, there's no mention of it in any significant way before it was used as the example of a batshit insane, baseless conspiracy theory in Dr. Strangelove.
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Jan 27, 2021 00:09
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PT6A posted:I'd like to raise two points: ive always wondered on the downlow if chemtrails is one of those planted conspiracy theories to make anyone who points out that planes are actually spewing trails of chemicals that make you rage and commit crimes look crazy. the 'chemtrails' theory aligns with reality except the theorized chemical make you passive; its basically reality spun exactly 180 degrees, its too bizarre!
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Jan 27, 2021 00:21
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Delta-Wye posted:ive always wondered on the downlow if chemtrails is one of those planted conspiracy theories to make anyone who points out that planes are actually spewing trails of chemicals that make you rage and commit crimes look crazy. the 'chemtrails' theory aligns with reality except the theorized chemical make you passive; its basically reality spun exactly 180 degrees, its too bizarre! ...what?
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Jan 27, 2021 00:22
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here's an article from noted conspiracy source the faa https://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/news_story.cfm?newsId=14754 leaded fuel is bad, and avgas is one of the few commonly used leaded fuels in the us. there are significant differences in crime rates around airports and approach paths but it's hard to literally chicken-and-egg that relationship; even so the longterm effects of tetraethyl lead in a population is very well known. its even a great early example of large companies hiding the fact their products are harmful behind walls of bullshit.
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Jan 27, 2021 00:28
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Yes, and avgas is used only by an incredibly small portion of the total aviation fleet. Jets and turboprops run on jet fuel, which is a specific formulation of hydrocarbon similar to diesel fuel, and it does not contain lead. Piston engines running on avgas do not produce visible exhaust trails because, with a few rare exceptions, they cannot reach the altitudes necessary to create them. It looks much the same as car exhaust does, though you can tell when avgas is burning by smell. Lead content in avgas has been lowered, but remains a significant risk and should be eliminated in the future. Several unleaded candidates are currently either being evaluated for suitability, or are essentially in the process of being made economical. It's less a conspiracy, and more of an unfortunate situation that exists due to historical factors, and is 100% public knowledge.
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Jan 27, 2021 00:35
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PT6A posted:Yes, and avgas is used only by an incredibly small portion of the total aviation fleet. Jets and turboprops run on jet fuel, which is a specific formulation of hydrocarbon similar to diesel fuel, and it does not contain lead. Piston engines running on avgas do not produce visible exhaust trails because, with a few rare exceptions, they cannot reach the altitudes necessary to create them. It looks much the same as car exhaust does, though you can tell when avgas is burning by smell. my experience is at a small rural airport - i can't speak towards what large "real" planes use but I remembered a whole lot of folks using a whole lot of avgas back in the early 90s, back when i knew a couple people who wouldn't shut the gently caress up about chemtrails and i didn't really think about the two together until much later.
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Jan 27, 2021 00:41
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Delta-Wye posted:my experience is at a small rural airport - i can't speak towards what large "real" planes use but I remembered a whole lot of folks using a whole lot of avgas back in the early 90s, back when i knew a couple people who wouldn't shut the gently caress up about chemtrails and i didn't really think about the two together until much later. Yeah, smaller airports would involve planes that run on leaded Avgas almost exclusively. It is in the process of being replaced, and honestly I can't wait for the day, because none of us pilots like dealing with that risk either. I was doing the 20-second handwash any time I touched fuel long before covid happened.
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Jan 27, 2021 00:53
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PT6A posted:Yes, and avgas is used only by an incredibly small portion of the total aviation fleet. Jets and turboprops run on jet fuel, which is a specific formulation of hydrocarbon similar to diesel fuel, and it does not contain lead. Piston engines running on avgas do not produce visible exhaust trails because, with a few rare exceptions, they cannot reach the altitudes necessary to create them. It looks much the same as car exhaust does, though you can tell when avgas is burning by smell. that's exactly what they want you to think 
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Jan 27, 2021 01:34
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Magic Underwear posted:that's exactly what they want you to think Well, considering that they've been working on this publicly for a decade, the more likely conspiracy is "they've been lying about doing anything about 100LL fuel because they're loving lazy and don't give a poo poo." I doubt it's malice in this case, probably just a vicious combination of stupidity, sloth and avarice. Any conspiracy theory which involves the aviation authorities actually doing something is inherently unlikely; the ones that involve them doing nothing are, unfortunately, staggeringly likely to be true, as shown by the 737MAX debacle.
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Jan 27, 2021 01:55
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A bit off topic, but anyone read the comic "Department of Truth"? I just discovered it, it touches on practically everything discussed here in a really great manner. It is about a world where anything people believe in hard enough becomes reality. An old-rear end Lee Harvey Oswald is leading the government department dedicated to not having insane conspiracy theories become widespread enough to gain too much power. The issue about false flag shootings convinced me that Alex Jones shouldn't see the outside of a loving cell ever again and that has nothing to do with any supernatural things.
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Jan 27, 2021 13:43
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His Sandy Hook appeal got thrown out, so he might be looking at financial ruin if not a cell. https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/worl...nts/ar-BB1d1zyJ
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Jan 27, 2021 14:24
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DarkCrawler posted:A bit off topic, but anyone read the comic "Department of Truth"? I just discovered it, it touches on practically everything discussed here in a really great manner. We should sanction Alex Jones so his kids starve. That'll teach 'em!
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Jan 27, 2021 14:39
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Lib and let die posted:We should sanction Alex Jones so his kids starve. That'll teach 'em! Yes, his family suffering due to his malfeasance will teach him a lesson. Are you arguing that he shouldn't face consequences because his kids might be affected? He doesn't have guardianship of his kids, because he's mentally ill. Courts already did that. What's your argument here?
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Jan 27, 2021 15:02
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pop fly to McGillicutty posted:Yes, his family suffering due to his malfeasance will teach him a lesson. Oh, heavens no. That's DarkCrawler's bag. Dude loves defending sanctions. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 27, 2021 15:06
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Twelve by Pies posted:I see you also are familiar with Andy Schlafly's Conservapedia.
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Jan 27, 2021 15:26
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pop fly to McGillicutty posted:Yes, his family suffering due to his malfeasance will teach him a lesson. Yep. He went with first amendment, it's just a radio character I play to sorry I'm mental in his three failed appeals on that. His wife didn't like the way he went after the Sandy Hook bereaved relatives as crisis actors more and more as he noticed it pulled in listeners. One of them committing suicide and another being driven out of four or five homes by the "truthers" didn't bother him. Hope he's finished, in a really loud public and messy way I'll enjoy on knowledge fight.
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Jan 27, 2021 15:33
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He can’t even see his kids any more, right? He doesn’t have custody or visitation, so they’re not going to be harmed by his eventual bankruptcy and overdose/fatal heart attack.
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Jan 27, 2021 15:35
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Lib and let die posted:We should sanction Alex Jones so his kids starve. That'll teach 'em! Lib and let die posted:Oh, heavens no. That's DarkCrawler's bag. Dude loves defending sanctions. I think this has to be the most reached "god I'm a butthurt little loser too scared to debate but I sure love whining periodically" snipe I've seen thus far. It is fun to see my work has such concrete effects though  ' Still lying, though. I love defending some sanctions. Any time you want to engage me in a relevant thread instead of just self-righteously tearing up somewhere completely unrelated, just throw me an invite. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Jan 27, 2021 |
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Jan 27, 2021 16:44
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Lib and let die posted:We should sanction Alex Jones so his kids starve. That'll teach 'em! I for one am extremely worried about the financial status of a millionare guy who wears multiple rolexes and suit jackets, and makes his money off scamming paranoid delusional people into buying bone broth TulliusCicero fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Jan 27, 2021 |
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Jan 27, 2021 17:29
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Lib and let die posted:We should sanction Alex Jones so his kids starve. That'll teach 'em! If we allow children to be dependent on Alex Jones, we're necessarily starving them one way or another
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Jan 27, 2021 17:32
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Been awhile since I've seen a Jones apologist around.
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Jan 27, 2021 18:26
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A lot of them got hoovered up by qanon, which is why Jones hates them. It hurts the brainforce plus sales.
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Jan 27, 2021 19:45
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Something I've been wanting to ask, where does the thread title come from?
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Jan 27, 2021 19:48
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CommissarMega posted:Something I've been wanting to ask, where does the thread title come from? 
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Jan 27, 2021 20:47
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CommissarMega posted:Something I've been wanting to ask, where does the thread title come from? From here.
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Jan 27, 2021 22:54
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Have any of you had the talk yet with your parents about dangerous cults on the internet?
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Jan 28, 2021 01:50
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HappyHippo posted:Not to defend flat earth, but this isn't how it works in relativity. You can accelerate at a "proper acceleration" of 1g (as experienced by the observer being accelerated) indefinitely, but from an external frame of reference you'll appear get asymptotically closer to the speed of light. Huh! Well thanks for the correction! I knew I didn't understand relativity. Your explanation seems surprisingly clear to me, probably since I concocted the original erroneous scenario. Look at that, flat earthers promoting science education! 
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Jan 28, 2021 05:47
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dao Jones posted:Huh! Well thanks for the correction! I knew I didn't understand relativity. Your explanation seems surprisingly clear to me, probably since I concocted the original erroneous scenario. I think looking at the velocity addition formula is the simplest way to 'get' special relativity. In the normal, Galilean relativity, it's just u = u `+ v. (u is your measurement of the velocity of an object, u` is how fast the object is moving in its own frame, v is how fast its frame is moving relative to you.) Here's the formula in special relativity:  If you just work with it a little bit, you'll see that if u`*v is much, much smaller than c, u`*v/c2 is effectively 0, which means that you basically get u`+v again. However, no matter what u` or v is, if they themselves are less than c, you always get less than c as an answer. And if you make u or v (or both) = c, you get c as an answer - which means that even if a fast moving frame relative to you shines a flashlight, you'll still measure the speed of the light from the flashlight as moving at c. No faster, and no slower. ashpanash fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Jan 28, 2021 |
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Jan 28, 2021 06:18
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Thanks, guys. Hoo boy, I'll almost miss these lunatics 
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Jan 28, 2021 10:57
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Argas posted:Anyway to me the conspiracy poo poo isn't that different from normal social functions. It's to reaffirm themselves and their community that they're still one of them. Actual belief is meaningless for this purpose but as we've seen before, this can lead to other people not getting the memo and taking it seriously. It's just that this reaffirmation in conspiracy theory groups is often done loudly and proudly because their secret knowledge sets them apart from the mainstream and also often elevates them above the sheeple. And it's also a big signal to the more exploitative types that they'll buy anything you sell. Way back, Clay Shirky highlighted some old research (by William Biro) on why groups exist. Why do people form groups and what do groups do? From memory the common elements were: * Flirtation and mutual grooming (e.g. telling each other they're great) * Upholding of sacred truths (e.g. the things you can't argue about, that everyone justs accepts, where true or not) * Vilification of outsiders I've been thinking about that a lot while looking at Q. Whether it's true or not is almost irrelevant.
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Jan 28, 2021 11:51
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