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Tulip posted:I 100% made that one up but here's a legit recipe: Something very much like this has been present at every family gathering I've ever had. I'm told that one big advantage it has is that you can prep it in advance and bring it to the gathering and not have soggy lettuce. I don't much care for it myself, so I don't know how true it is, but it at least seems to make sense to me.
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Jan 27, 2021 22:55
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Zedhe Khoja posted:is it any worse than frito pie most things are
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Jan 28, 2021 00:21
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Archduke Frantz Fanon posted:its just a cob salad with peas and also vertical instead of horizontal They take miracle whip and then add more sugar Cobb salads are pretty good. Ive never had one with loving miracle whip with extra sugar
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Jan 28, 2021 04:51
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Platystemon posted:It’s not a cold-weather papaya. They had some pawpaw plants at the local nursery and I had never heard of the fruit so I looked it up. Was seriously tempted to buy two for my backyard, but they wanted $200 per plant so I got some blueberry plants to murder and never looked back.
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Jan 28, 2021 04:57
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HashtagGirlboss posted:They take miracle whip and then add more sugar i have bad news about most salad dressings for you
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Jan 28, 2021 04:59
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i can't believe this whole time vinaigrette was just miracle whip and sugar
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Jan 28, 2021 05:08
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if you add red food coloring to it you can call it french relish and it becomes russian or thousand island
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Jan 28, 2021 05:10
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https://twitter.com/DominiqueJL15/status/1354430556176592898
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Jan 28, 2021 12:55
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Platystemon posted:L & C would have starved on their way back east had pawpaw not been in season. i didnt actually remember what the pawpaw was at first and read this a joke about having to eat their dogs which was also a thing of course
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Jan 28, 2021 13:03
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skewetoo posted:Sooooooo. What were you studying when you realized your history degree radicalized you lol learning about Shays’ Rebellion in AP US History right after 9/11 in junior year
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Jan 28, 2021 15:14
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Tulip posted:I 100% made that one up but here's a legit recipe:
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Jan 28, 2021 16:21
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I'm currently reading "Approaching Vietnam: From World War II through Dienbienphu", by Lloyd C. Gardner, and there's two excerpts I wanted to share with the group:quote:"We in America always think of China as a nation," Truman thus commented on China. "But the truth is that in 1945 China was only a geographical expression." At war's end, Chiang Kai-shek's authority extended only over the southwest corner, while the Japanese occupied the south and southwest, and north China was controlled by Communist forces and Manchuria by the Russians. "The task of creating a new nation was colossal. President Roosevelt had built up the idea that China was a great power because he looked to the future and wanted to encourage the Chinese people." I think I've heard of the US propping up Japanese troops before for their own (anti-communist) purposes, but this is the first time I've read of it being endorsed so directly. quote:At the outset, Korea demonstrated, said Truman, that the Communists were ready to resort to war to advance their purposes. The president told a Boy Scout jamboree at Valley forge, Pennsylvania, only five days after the North Korean assault that what was happening in Communist countries had happened before, "back in the days of Hitler and Mussolini. Today, the young people of Communist dominated countries are being mobilized and marched, in the same fashion, under the hammer and sickle.... They are being made into tools of power politics, and their masters will not hesitate to sacrifice their lives if that will advance the cause of Communist imperialism And this also stood out to me because even at this relatively early junction people were already doing the "communists and fascists are the same" shuffle.
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Jan 29, 2021 04:15
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When Huerta was beaten by Obregon and Carranza, his soldiers were all ordered to lay down their arms except for the ones blocking Zapato and Villa from marching on Mexico City.
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Jan 29, 2021 04:57
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gradenko_2000 posted:I think I've heard of the US propping up Japanese troops before for their own (anti-communist) purposes, but this is the first time I've read of it being endorsed so directly. Shinzo Abe's grandad was called the Monster of Manchuria and he became prime minister after the war, and the Unit 731 guys got rich in the pharmacetical industry America didn't really give a gently caress about japanese war crimes
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Jan 29, 2021 14:54
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gradenko_2000 posted:And this also stood out to me because even at this relatively early junction people were already doing the "communists and fascists are the same" shuffle. Kinda torn, on the one hand I do agree that on a fundamental level communists and fascists are really not the same. On the other, I do get why the leadership coming out of WW2 slotted them in the same box, because depending on communist leadership, the *results* of communist takeover were often indistinguishable from fascist takeover. (It's a sliding scale with Stalin/ Mao at one end, and Castro/Tito on the other end.) What's more, coming out of World War 2 one of the lessons learned was that you can't live in peace/make a deal with fascists. I imagine both communists and the west were afraid the same was true of their new opponents.
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Jan 29, 2021 16:20
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pray tell what treblinkas mao and Stalin set up
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Jan 29, 2021 16:23
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WWII has mostly been rewritten by 75 years of media with the allied forces reframed as these liberating forces intent on saving the oppressed from the Japanese and German empires. Which is not to diminish in any way the horror of the Holocaust or the war crimes of the Japanese empire, but that's not what the west fought the war over. Note that Europe was still in rubble and the winning powers were already trying to re-consolidate their holds on their imperial holdings. WWII more than anything else was about the German and Japanese empire being unable to expand without coming into conflict with the British and French empires and Russia and the US. The allies very much were looking to hold what they had and maybe get more in the long run. All the human rights abuses and horrors of the extermination camps and racist laws and massacres and the like were after thoughts.
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Jan 29, 2021 16:33
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Nebakenezzer posted:Kinda torn, on the one hand I do agree that on a fundamental level communists and fascists are really not the same. On the other, I do get why the leadership coming out of WW2 slotted them in the same box, because depending on communist leadership, the *results* of communist takeover were often indistinguishable from fascist takeover. (It's a sliding scale with Stalin/ Mao at one end, and Castro/Tito on the other end.) What's more, coming out of World War 2 one of the lessons learned was that you can't live in peace/make a deal with fascists. I imagine both communists and the west were afraid the same was true of their new opponents. source ure succ
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Jan 29, 2021 16:42
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Nebakenezzer posted:Kinda torn, on the one hand I do agree that on a fundamental level communists and fascists are really not the same. On the other, I do get why the leadership coming out of WW2 slotted them in the same box, because depending on communist leadership, the *results* of communist takeover were often indistinguishable from fascist takeover. (It's a sliding scale with Stalin/ Mao at one end, and Castro/Tito on the other end.) What's more, coming out of World War 2 one of the lessons learned was that you can't live in peace/make a deal with fascists. I imagine both communists and the west were afraid the same was true of their new opponents. this is the history thread not the nonsense thread
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Jan 29, 2021 16:59
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Nebakenezzer posted:Kinda torn, on the one hand I do agree that on a fundamental level communists and fascists are really not the same. On the other, I do get why the leadership coming out of WW2 slotted them in the same box, because depending on communist leadership, the *results* of communist takeover were often indistinguishable from fascist takeover. (It's a sliding scale with Stalin/ Mao at one end, and Castro/Tito on the other end.) What's more, coming out of World War 2 one of the lessons learned was that you can't live in peace/make a deal with fascists. I imagine both communists and the west were afraid the same was true of their new opponents. I'm going to give you the gentlest possible pushback when I say that even the most ardent anti-communist is going to admit that the gulags were detention camps for political prisoners, and not extermination camps for minorities, which is why this comparison is dumb as hell. HashtagGirlboss posted:WWII more than anything else was about the German and Japanese empire being unable to expand without coming into conflict with the British and French empires and Russia and the US. The allies very much were looking to hold what they had and maybe get more in the long run. There's a through-line I'm seeing develop in a number of books I've read recently (that kind of sequenced together by happenstance) where Japan ends up colliding with the Western empires, and that sets off WWII in Asia, but at the end of it all the US decides to give Japan (part of) its empire back in neocolonial form because A. they wanted to prop it up as an anti-communist bulwark, and B. they needed it to be a regional economic nexus for the post-Bretton Woods plan of the US as the world's recycler of surplus (with Germany forming the other nexus, hence the Marshall Plan).
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Jan 29, 2021 17:06
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its impossible to make peace with fascists also please do not look into the background of any politician in japan or the frg during the 50s
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Jan 29, 2021 17:14
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the real reason why western countries started conflating fascism and communism is that they needed a way to save the myth of white superiority after the whitest of white countries had given rise to the open barbarity of nazism so basically they decided to lump both together under the moniker of "totalitarianism" so that they could be safely consigned to the category of barbaric oriental ideologies and nobody in the west had to ask themselves any more uncomfortable questions
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Jan 29, 2021 17:15
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it's also worth remembering that it's not like the US just started hating communism in 1945, from literally the october revolution on the US media and political class condemned socialists as the worst enemies imaginable (of course they hated socialists before that, but the creation of an explicitly socialist state kicked it into overdrive), like it got so bad that one of the most famous early works of media criticism is a 1920 book talking about how often the New York Times and the US government lied about the Bolsheviks. in the longue duree the story of WW2's transition into the Cold War is that WW2 and the fascist challenge was a brief ideological and political-military diversion from an ongoing capitalist-communist conflict, and as soon as it was over the US pivoted back to fight the socialists that they saw as their real enemies, and coopted both the fascists (who were the most reliable anti-communist allies) and the wartime anti-fascist sentiment (to convince their people that communists, who had been their allies for the war, were actually the same thing as fascists, who they hated because of the whole war thing) into the Cold War resumption of capitalist-communist hostility
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Jan 29, 2021 17:22
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gradenko_2000 posted:I'm going to give you the gentlest possible pushback when I say that even the most ardent anti-communist is going to admit that the gulags were detention camps for political prisoners, and not extermination camps for minorities, which is why this comparison is dumb as hell. Ah yes, *why* people are liquidated is super important, that people are liquidated, mere detail Thanks for providing an example of what I meant when I said "the results sometimes were not too different from fascism" quote:There's a through-line I'm seeing develop in a number of books I've read recently (that kind of sequenced together by happenstance) where Japan ends up colliding with the Western empires, and that sets off WWII in Asia, but at the end of it all the US decides to give Japan (part of) its empire back in neocolonial form Do tell, I want to hear about the Philippines and Korea remaining Japanese colonial possessions Nebakenezzer has issued a correction as of 17:32 on Jan 29, 2021 |
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Jan 29, 2021 17:28
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Nebakenezzer posted:Ah yes, *why* people are liquidated is super important it is, actually?
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Jan 29, 2021 17:35
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Nebakenezzer posted:Ah yes, *why* people are liquidated is super important, that people are liquidated, mere detail lmao
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Jan 29, 2021 17:35
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Nebakenezzer posted:Do tell, I want to hear about the Philippines and Korea remaining Japanese colonial possessions LMAO gradenko_2000 posted:There's a through-line I'm seeing develop in a number of books I've read recently (that kind of sequenced together by happenstance) where Japan ends up colliding with the Western empires, and that sets off WWII in Asia, but at the end of it all the US decides to give Japan (part of) its empire back in neocolonial form because A. they wanted to prop it up as an anti-communist bulwark, and B. they needed it to be a regional economic nexus for the post-Bretton Woods plan of the US as the world's recycler of surplus (with Germany forming the other nexus, hence the Marshall Plan). Which books? Good reads?
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Jan 29, 2021 17:36
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indigi posted:it is, actually? Let me guess, Mao and Stalin are good guys cuz they murdered millions for the correct reasons?
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Jan 29, 2021 17:39
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Here is a list of times that it's acceptable to murder millions of people: 1-
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Jan 29, 2021 17:39
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZmafy_v8g8
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Jan 29, 2021 17:43
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Dalael posted:Let me guess, Mao and Stalin are good guys cuz they murdered millions for the correct reasons? I wouldn’t characterize either as “good guys” but their reasons for attacking landlords and fascists are not in any way comparable to the Nazis reasons for liquidating Jews, Slavs, and the disabled. lol.
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Jan 29, 2021 17:44
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HashtagGirlboss posted:Which books? Good reads? the "arc" I'm describing started with "Kaigun: Strategy, Tactics, and Technology in the Imperial Japanese Navy 1887-1941" by David C. Evans and Mark Peattie - this gives us the background and lead-up to Japanese imperialism and colonialism and then Yanis Varoufakis's "The Global Minotaur" describes the Bretton Woods set-up that I was describing with the US as the economic hegemon scooping up all of the financial surplus, but needing Germany and Japan as regional nexuses and this book I'm reading now that I just posted about, "Approaching Vietnam: From World War II through Dienbienphu", by Lloyd C. Gardner, goes into the immediate post-war diplomatic deals that went into setting that up. Varoufakis only touched on how China turning communist hosed up plans on letting China become a market for Japan* and forced the US to look at Korea and the rest of the Southeast Asia, but this one goes into some more detail. I'd recommend Varoufakis's work absolutely, great read. The Kaigun book only if you're also a naval/war nerd. I haven't finished this Vietnam book so I'm holding off on a recommendation just yet. ___ * which, again, is ironic in a roundabout way, because "China should be Japan's market" was part of Japan's original imperial design on China anyway
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Jan 29, 2021 17:52
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Did you know that in the USSR, they had a lot of the top antiquity experts? Medievalists, classical civilizations, etc? The reason was simple: these areas of study completely avoided politics, which could be not good for you at all if you decided the truth was more important than the party line. So: HERE YE, HERE YE I petition all the various powers to revert this thread to an ancient history thread. The ancient history thread could remain chill and, you know, discuss ancient history. Having "History" will just make the thread tankies vs. non-tankies, since history post 1850 becomes part of the boring partisan scrum some CSPAM readers are determined to turn all threads into. Unless reverted, this thread will quickly decline into "NO U WRONG", and eventually, a thread where only tankies post and say to each other "yes, right" which is pretty dull, even for the tankies, since they are not learning anything, either. This is also why specific "roleplay internet marxist revolutionary" threads die even in CSPAM, since a bunch of people agreeing with each other is just, again, a really pointless and dull thread. By refocusing away from the partisan scrum, we can all get along and learn stuff And if the 251st Revolutionary Communard Tank division want to do their freestyle history improv, they can make their own thread, except better, with blackjack, and sex workers, and exchange homilies and icons of saints to their steel and concrete heart's content, blessedly free of people like me, those that do not toe the standards set by the Marxist marketing department and are becoming increasingly smug about it. SIGNED, THIS XXXVI Day of Blooranuary, Neb (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 29, 2021 17:53
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you were the one who decided to go in on Truman escalating the Cold War had a point and now you're going to shift this back around and say the thread just degenerates into tankies? jesus christ you don't even have to be a Mao apologist or whatever the hell to think that it's kinda suss to back Japanese fascism over Chinese communism when the alleged millions of deaths that occurred under the Great Leap Forward hadn't actually happened
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Jan 29, 2021 17:58
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i don't know any history after 600 CE this is all very upsetting
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Jan 29, 2021 18:40
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indigi posted:I wouldn’t characterize either as “good guys” but their reasons for attacking landlords and fascists are not in any way comparable to the Nazis reasons for liquidating Jews, Slavs, and the disabled. lol. And I'd argue that at that point, it doesn't matter what the reasons were.
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Jan 29, 2021 19:50
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Dalael posted:And I'd argue that at that point, it doesn't matter what the reasons were. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqyLJ-fWbSI
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Jan 29, 2021 19:54
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Dalael posted:And I'd argue that at that point, it doesn't matter what the reasons were. so it’s a bad thing to liquidate nazis? got it
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Jan 29, 2021 19:55
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Real hurthling! posted:i don't know any history after 600 CE this is all very upsetting That's still current events for cumshitter so it's not ancient.
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Jan 29, 2021 19:58
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Bad things Stalin did: ethnically cleanse turkic minorities, political massacres of rival socialist tendencies, probably a bit heavy on the Polish crackdown in Belarus, Knocking up a tween Hunter-Gatherer. Not-{Bad things Stalin did}: liquidate the the military brass and secret police of fascist Poland, fail to have colonial holdings to export starvation to when you gently caress up agricultural industrialization, killing Trotsky.
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Jan 29, 2021 21:30
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