[Premodern history] the year of the two fatal eruptions

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Premodern history] the year of the two fatal eruptions

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Archduke Frantz Fanon: Sep 7, 2004

Real hurthling! posted:

i don't know any history after 600 CE this is all very upsetting

ali came in and beat the poo poo out of a bunch of weak rear end jesus freaks

# ? Jan 29, 2021 21:40

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 22:13

Real hurthling!: Sep 11, 2001

they were no angels

# ? Jan 29, 2021 21:49

Doktor Avalanche: Dec 30, 2008

indigi posted:

so it�s a bad thing to liquidate nazis? got it

that's the thing that libs can't forgive him, forget about all the millions billions trillions quadrillions they cry crocodile tears over, ww2 was supposed to be the war in which the nazis genocided the soviets and broke the back of the union, after which the libs would swoop in, save the day, and control eastern europe
but the bastards had the gall to survive and even win

# ? Jan 29, 2021 22:00

Majorian: Jul 1, 2009

Real hurthling! posted:

i don't know any history after 600 CE this is all very upsetting

Things do NOT end well for Emperor Maurice, I hate to say.

Archduke Frantz Fanon posted:

ali came in and beat the poo poo out of a bunch of weak rear end jesus freaks

Mazda freaks too.

# ? Jan 29, 2021 22:14

Dameius: Apr 3, 2006

Zedhe Khoja posted:

Bad things Stalin did: ethnically cleanse turkic minorities, political massacres of rival socialist tendencies, probably a bit heavy on the Polish crackdown in Belarus, Knocking up a tween Hunter-Gatherer.
Not-{Bad things Stalin did}: liquidate the the military brass and secret police of fascist Poland, fail to have colonial holdings to export starvation to when you gently caress up agricultural industrialization, killing Trotsky.

I'm guessing this was just him knocking up a Siberian woman at some point? I've not heard of this before.

# ? Jan 30, 2021 00:38

Zedhe Khoja: Nov 10, 2017; sürgünden selamlar
yıkıcılar ulusuna

Dameius posted:

I'm guessing this was just him knocking up a Siberian woman at some point? I've not heard of this before.

The last time Stalin was sent into exile they sent him to a remote Siberian town where they put people they really didn't want to come back, then they moved him to a small village nearby, and then finally to a remote ?hamlet? of Siberians hut dwellers on the arctic circle who were too remote for supply shipments and in too lovely a locale for farming so they fished and hunted and foraged for food. Several times people go out to hunt and just disappear in the snow and everyone shrugs it off because that was just how it goes. When he arrives he probably figured he was gonna die there and shacked up with the most eligible bachelorette the settlement had: a thirteen year old.

# ? Jan 30, 2021 02:14

Peanut President: Nov 5, 2008; by Athanatos

vyelkin posted:

it's also worth remembering that it's not like the US just started hating communism in 1945, from literally the october revolution on the US media and political class condemned socialists as the worst enemies imaginable (of course they hated socialists before that, but the creation of an explicitly socialist state kicked it into overdrive), like it got so bad that one of the most famous early works of media criticism is a 1920 book talking about how often the New York Times and the US government lied about the Bolsheviks.

in the longue duree the story of WW2's transition into the Cold War is that WW2 and the fascist challenge was a brief ideological and political-military diversion from an ongoing capitalist-communist conflict, and as soon as it was over the US pivoted back to fight the socialists that they saw as their real enemies, and coopted both the fascists (who were the most reliable anti-communist allies) and the wartime anti-fascist sentiment (to convince their people that communists, who had been their allies for the war, were actually the same thing as fascists, who they hated because of the whole war thing) into the Cold War resumption of capitalist-communist hostility

yeah McCarthyism is called "The Second Red Scare" for a reason

# ? Jan 30, 2021 02:23

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

Zedhe Khoja posted:

shacked up with the most eligible bachelorette the settlement had: a thirteen year old.

that's gross. you think you'd hear about this more

# ? Jan 30, 2021 02:48

lobotomy molo: May 7, 2007; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Doctor Jeep posted:

that's the thing that libs can't forgive him, forget about all the millions billions trillions quadrillions they cry crocodile tears over, ww2 was supposed to be the war in which the nazis genocided the soviets and broke the back of the union, after which the libs would swoop in, save the day, and control eastern europe
but the bastards had the gall to survive and even win

cue Operation Unthinkable

# ? Jan 30, 2021 03:06

Stairmaster: Jun 8, 2012

Operation unthinkable is funny because on paper the allies hold the advantage long term but there would be no way of getting their populace to give the commitment needed to win.

# ? Jan 30, 2021 06:26

Communist Thoughts: Jan 7, 2008; Our war against free speech cannot end until we silence this bronze beast!

Ancient history is more fun coz nobody has parasocial relationships with the mass murderering ruling classes of those eras.

Well. People who aren't me I assume

# ? Jan 30, 2021 13:03

Zedhe Khoja: Nov 10, 2017; sürgünden selamlar
yıkıcılar ulusuna

indigi posted:

that's gross. you think you'd hear about this more

By the cultural standards of his time it was more like a 17 year old to us. The age of consent was literally "puberty" under the Czar. It was "sexual maturity" under the early soviets with a weird cavat that proper maturity was 18 with whether or not anything between teen and an adult determined to be legal on an arbitrary case by case basis. Punishments were generallly extremely mild. After the Soviet era a more firm 16 year old age of consent was implemented, and then lowered to 14 by Yeltsin :pedo:

. Putin then raised it back to 16 and implemented much harsher punishments for violations.

# ? Jan 30, 2021 13:17

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

Zedhe Khoja posted:

By the cultural standards of his time it was more like a 17 year old to us.

# ? Jan 30, 2021 13:19

Zedhe Khoja: Nov 10, 2017; sürgünden selamlar
yıkıcılar ulusuna

Platystemon posted:

insert "local age of consent" here, I guess

point is the premodern society sucked on issues of sex, but most historians just gloss over incidents because individual cases aren't really notable. You just go "oh right the past was gross" or "oh right the past was awesome" if you're VDH or whatever.

# ? Jan 30, 2021 13:32

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

A load bearing "to us"

# ? Jan 30, 2021 16:14

PawParole: Nov 16, 2019

Archduke Frantz Fanon posted:

Khalid Bin Walid came in and beat the poo poo out of a bunch of weak rear end jesus freaks

# ? Jan 30, 2021 16:37

Real hurthling!: Sep 11, 2001

in ye olden days it was all about being a failson long enough to inherit your dads money so that you could convince one of his friends that you had the means to feed and house their teenage daughter that they were trying to be rid of.

# ? Jan 30, 2021 16:46

PawParole: Nov 16, 2019

Hodgepodge posted:

i didnt actually remember what the pawpaw was at first and read this a joke about having to eat their dogs which was also a thing of course

always knew it as hillbilly mangos

# ? Jan 30, 2021 16:52

Zedhe Khoja: Nov 10, 2017; sürgünden selamlar
yıkıcılar ulusuna

Ghostlight posted:

A load bearing "to us"

In that it was considered distasteful and gossipworthy but it's not illegal or warrants excluding you from polite society.
But I'll allow SA probably has higher standards than most of humanity in that regard. If that weren't the case Seinfeld would be irrelevent because of his dating habits and not because he's old and lame.

# ? Jan 30, 2021 16:56

twoday: May 4, 2005; C-SPAM Times best-selling author

We can still always make it two threads, I also find that going back and forth between reading posts about Franco�s Spain and then the Etruscans or whatever gives me a bit of mental whiplash. But eh, then it�s two threads, that�s a lot of history threads.

# ? Jan 30, 2021 17:08

coathat: May 21, 2007

More threads is good

# ? Jan 30, 2021 17:09

twoday: May 4, 2005; C-SPAM Times best-selling author

From the oldest temple complex in the world at Gobekli Tepe:

Amazing that they knew about the letter H already back then

# ? Jan 30, 2021 17:09

big dong wanter: Jan 28, 2010; The future for this country is roads, freeways and highways

To the dangerzone

Zedhe Khoja posted:

In that it was considered distasteful and gossipworthy but it's not illegal or warrants excluding you from polite society.
But I'll allow SA probably has higher standards than most of humanity in that regard. If that weren't the case Seinfeld would be irrelevent because of his dating habits and not because he's old and lame.

This is mildly mind-blowing to me, when did noncing actually become illegal and taboo because I feel like Stalin's lifetime is waaay to recent IMO

# ? Jan 30, 2021 17:13

Tulip: Jun 3, 2008; yeah thats pretty good

big dong wanter posted:

This is mildly mind-blowing to me, when did noncing actually become illegal and taboo because I feel like Stalin's lifetime is waaay to recent IMO

Ringo Starr put out a hit single of "You're Sixteen (You're Beautiful And You're Mine)" in 1973 (so he would have been 33). It was a cover but his version was later and got much higher in the billboards.

AFAIK the changes over "how young is too young" are not linear and not independent of geography or class (medieval Europe here is illustrative - nobility might marry minors in some circumstances but peasants didn't seem to do so). Hell even today the rich in America don't seem to think it's that big of a deal today, judging by some of the op-eds we saw about Epstein.

---

Anyway this is kind of a gross subtopic even within historical sexuality so let's look at something much more fun, this weird-rear end German comedy:

https://mobile.twitter.com/erik_kaars/status/1354782143487029249

# ? Jan 30, 2021 17:30

Real hurthling!: Sep 11, 2001

twoday posted:

From the oldest temple complex in the world at Gobekli Tepe:

Amazing that they knew about the letter H already back then

da goatman bce

# ? Jan 30, 2021 17:34

Azathoth: Apr 3, 2001

big dong wanter posted:

This is mildly mind-blowing to me, when did noncing actually become illegal and taboo because I feel like Stalin's lifetime is waaay to recent IMO

if you want to believe this, don't look too closely at the behavior of many still-living rockstars with underage groupies during the 70s and 80s. i've heard a whole lotta "that's just how it was" defenses for a whole lotta statutory rapists who are still wandering around polite society to this day

go back a little further and you've got jerry lee lewis, who was 22 when he married his 13 year old cousin. they were married right about the time that great balls of fire was being recorded, though it was all kept secret. granted, there was public backlash when it was revealed, but aside from a cancelled tour, he didn't really suffer any consequences. he still got into the rock and roll hall of fame in the 80s and while the outrage probably killed his chances at being a rockstar, he went on to have a very successful career as a country artist. both lewis and his "child bride" are still alive, fwiw

as for when an age gap like stalin had became truly unacceptable, it was definitely in living memory, and probably way later than anyone would like to admit

# ? Jan 30, 2021 17:45

big dong wanter: Jan 28, 2010; The future for this country is roads, freeways and highways

To the dangerzone

Azathoth posted:

if you want to believe this, don't look too closely at the behavior of many still-living rockstars with underage groupies during the 70s and 80s. i've heard a whole lotta "that's just how it was" defenses for a whole lotta statutory rapists who are still wandering around polite society to this day

go back a little further and you've got jerry lee lewis, who was 22 when he married his 13 year old cousin. they were married right about the time that great balls of fire was being recorded, though it was all kept secret. granted, there was public backlash when it was revealed, but aside from a cancelled tour, he didn't really suffer any consequences. he still got into the rock and roll hall of fame in the 80s and while the outrage probably killed his chances at being a rockstar, he went on to have a very successful career as a country artist. both lewis and his "child bride" are still alive, fwiw

as for when an age gap like stalin had became truly unacceptable, it was definitely in living memory, and probably way later than anyone would like to admit

what about illegal tho? modern musicians still do all kinds of horrifying sex crimes pretty much constantly if my years in the business taught me anything (thankfully i got out nearly 10 years ago before i did something truly stupid)
e: for clarification, not a sex crime, just murdering the gently caress out of someone whos very famous for being extremely bad but in a different way (think piracy not sex crimes)

big dong wanter has issued a correction as of 17:56 on Jan 30, 2021

# ? Jan 30, 2021 17:53

Inspector Hound: Jul 14, 2003

twoday posted:

From the oldest temple complex in the world at Gobekli Tepe:

Amazing that they knew about the letter H already back then

I have burned *pounds* of weed watching and rewatching documentaries on gobekli tepe

# ? Jan 30, 2021 18:17

Azathoth: Apr 3, 2001

big dong wanter posted:

what about illegal tho? modern musicians still do all kinds of horrifying sex crimes pretty much constantly if my years in the business taught me anything (thankfully i got out nearly 10 years ago before i did something truly stupid)
e: for clarification, not a sex crime, just murdering the gently caress out of someone whos very famous for being extremely bad but in a different way (think piracy not sex crimes)

our current legal framework for age of consent laws dates back to the 70s, but it's still a patchwork on a per state basis and even in areas where there are good laws, enforcement was (and still is) extremely lax. i watch/listen to a lot of true crime content and the sheer amount of statutory rape that comes to light only because someone murdered someone else is depressing. just a neverending stream of "he was 24 when they started dating and she was 15". definitely not bringing up any of this to defend stalin (or any rapist, historical or otherwise) just saying that this is something that shouldn't be treated as a historical artifact

# ? Jan 30, 2021 18:35

atriptothebeach: Oct 27, 2020

twoday posted:

From the oldest temple complex in the world at Gobekli Tepe:

Amazing that they knew about the letter H already back then

# ? Jan 30, 2021 19:04

twoday: May 4, 2005; C-SPAM Times best-selling author

atriptothebeach posted:

# ? Jan 30, 2021 19:05

atriptothebeach: Oct 27, 2020

# ? Jan 30, 2021 19:24

a fatguy baldspot: Aug 29, 2018

Nevermind

a fatguy baldspot has issued a correction as of 19:35 on Jan 30, 2021

# ? Jan 30, 2021 19:29

twoday: May 4, 2005; C-SPAM Times best-selling author

atriptothebeach posted:

Caral was in the news a while back

https://twitter.com/winsontang/status/1346087627124928513?s=20

# ? Jan 30, 2021 20:47

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

Azathoth posted:

as for when an age gap like stalin had became truly unacceptable, it was definitely in living memory, and probably way later than anyone would like to admit

David Bowie is on the record as having hosed at least one 13 year old groupie and he has never been canceled

e: �raped� is probably the proper word to use

# ? Jan 30, 2021 20:55

Hot Karl Marx: Mar 16, 2009; Politburo regulations about social distancing require to downgrade your Karlmarxing to cold, and sorry about the dnc primaries, please enjoy!