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as far as general sources go if you want to go looking, i like humanité's coverage in french and have seen good stuff from jacobin.de, previously ADA magazin, in german. i sincerely don't know any good anglo euroskeptic sources, but i imagine that the pre-snowden guardian might have printed something or that one of the hoity-toity intellectual periodicals (like the New Left Review) will have gone into this at some length
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Jan 16, 2021 11:57
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dex_sda posted:Well yes, and I'd like some good perspectives of it for a comrade who's very eurooptimist Listen to anything by Yanis Varoufakis? I think he's still considered cool and good on the left He talks a lot about how the Troika never wanted their money back but were hellbent on bringing about policy change through fiscal punishment. It's not a really complicated story though if you understand, like V. Illych L. said, that this is the function of european institutions
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Jan 16, 2021 11:58
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V. Illych L. posted:what languages do you want? i can dig up some norwegian commentary from the time, but guessing that that isn't what you're after, so i'd have to actually go searching English would be best yea. I'll look into Yanis myself thanks stork an mr lenin. but I'd still like a nice article or two, it doesn't have to be deep but comprehensive would be great. Like I said it's not for me, I already know the dark side of EU but it's something i absorbed from dozens of sources and so I can't bring the evidence to bear readily when debating someone who's otherwise a comrade
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Jan 16, 2021 11:58
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and now im remembering why i started keeping bookmarks of important news stories about this poo poo. you know, years after living through it. because someone else asked me for sources as well and i had nothing to give
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Jan 16, 2021 12:00
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V. Illych L. posted:what languages do you want? i can dig up some norwegian commentary from the time, but guessing that that isn't what you're after, so i'd have to actually go searching i don’t think he doesn’t know, i think he thinks he can use his experience to reform the EU. good luck
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Jan 16, 2021 12:03
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lollontee posted:and now im remembering why i started keeping bookmarks of important news stories about this poo poo. you know, years after living through it. because someone else asked me for sources as well and i had nothing to give yea it's the sort of thing that non activists tend to have a blind spot for. My own country massively benefited from the EU funding (and now we're stonewalling it into misery with the veto inshallah) so my friend doesn't know, he just absorbed the 'bad greece' thing. It's kinda hard to convince someone with general knowledge from osmosis as opposed to solid theory I have in other leftist thought, you know?
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Jan 16, 2021 12:07
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https://newleftreview.org/issues/ii72/articles/stathis-kouvelakis-the-greek-cauldron kouvelakis is a SYRIZA figure and greek left intellectual, and while he's not outright euroskeptic he's written in the NLR on and off since the crisis - this, annoyingly, is not hitting the mark especially well, but it supplements varoufakis' account if you're after more general 'eu bad from socialist perspective' stuff i'd have an easier time finding good sources for that, but you'll have to wait until i'm at my own computer
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Jan 16, 2021 12:16
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V. Illych L. posted:
That'll work, thanks. I think greece is like the poster child so that would be awesome but I'll take what I can get
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Jan 16, 2021 12:18
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https://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/jun/12/greece-could-pay-heavy-price-eurozone-reckless-banks
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Jan 16, 2021 12:19
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I think a lot of how the crisis evolved (compared to the current COVID response) was born out of a sense of confidence that the ECB/EU knew what it was doing through austerity measures. Greece was clearly being made an example of, but I do think most of the leaders who mattered actually thought a technocratic approach would work with the rest of southern Europe. I think they were actually shocked when bonds started rapidly devaluing and they had to borrow against the Euro anyway. It seems like the EU returned to more traditional Keynesianism for the time being. I do think the Eurocrisis not only shook confidence in the Euro but actually began a growing divergence between Brussels and DC. This was compounded by the refugee crisis, Trump, and now the increasing economic weight of Eurasia.
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Jan 16, 2021 12:37
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Just use the hilarious clusterfuck that was the Reinhart-Rogoff papper , that should be enough. And when I mean hilarious, I mean bad. Like holy poo poo, so many deaths. Or as famous broken clock paul krugman once wrote: "What the Reinhart-Rogoff affair shows is the extent to which austerity has been sold on false pretenses. For three years, the turn to austerity has been presented not as a choice but as a necessity. Economic research, austerity advocates insisted, showed that terrible things happen once debt exceeds 90 percent of G.D.P. But "economic research" showed no such thing; a couple of economists made that assertion, while many others disagreed. Policy makers abandoned the unemployed and turned to austerity because they wanted to, not because they had to."
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Jan 16, 2021 13:40
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Lol was that the one that basic excel errors in it that formed part of their conclusions? That was discovered by some graduate student or something.
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Jan 16, 2021 15:52
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dex_sda posted:It was just random chance Varoufakis's "The Global Minotaur" is what you're looking for, but I'm sorry if I have to recommend a whole book and not just an article.
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Jan 16, 2021 18:53
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So we discuss Italy because lmao at what Renzi started.
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Jan 16, 2021 18:57
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Even more bespoke lmaos about renzi: looks like our PM has already found a new majority for his government. those new factions being recruited include some of renzis former colleagues in his party. also, some of the new coalition members are putting a veto on ever including him again in the new majority, which lol. also, since he doesn't own his party name and symbol, which instead belongs to one of the people who are for certain going to backstab him, he's going into the unaffiliated senators group (usually end of the line for a career politician, getting kicked out or leaving a party means you're not coming back to parliament usually) just loving incredible. we gonna see even more lmaos when this shitshow of politics and betrayal is all put to the vote monday and tuesday
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Jan 16, 2021 19:12
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gradenko_2000 posted:Varoufakis's "The Global Minotaur" is what you're looking for, but I'm sorry if I have to recommend a whole book and not just an article. But if my memory serves he wrote that before his carrier as finance minister, so the whole EU - Syrizia conflict is in another book.
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Jan 16, 2021 20:28
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genericnick posted:But if my memory serves he wrote that before his carrier as finance minister, so the whole EU - Syrizia conflict is in another book. "adults in the room"?
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Jan 17, 2021 00:19
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Falukorv posted:Lol was that the one that basic excel errors in it that formed part of their conclusions? That was discovered by some graduate student or something. yes, it's the one with errors enough that it should completely end a bunch of careers and pretensions of evidence-based policy people forever should also that hate eKKKu beat is not forgotten but i am now drunk
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Jan 17, 2021 00:31
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https://twitter.com/vanfranco/status/1352319385919221761
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Jan 22, 2021 15:51
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Has anyone done a write-up on these anti-masker anti-lockdown movements that are popping up? The ones in Denmark seem to be a particularly dumb jumble of football hooligans, various conspiracy nuts and veterans. Several people have been charged with threatening the PM after publicly burning an effigy with the words "She should and must be executed" on it.
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Jan 31, 2021 16:11
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What's up with those riots in the Netherlands as well?
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Jan 31, 2021 16:13
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Look here for twoday's excellent report of the riots/ violence in the Netherlands: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3925033&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=3617 oliwan has issued a correction as of 16:33 on Jan 31, 2021 |
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Jan 31, 2021 16:20
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Lawman 0 posted:What's up with those riots in the Netherlands as well? The ones in eindhoven a few days back? Thosr were antilockdown riots
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Jan 31, 2021 16:22
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oliwan posted:Look here for twoday's excellent report of the riots/ violence in the Netherlands: I didn't even think to check the Cool Zone thread, probably thought of that as more of a BLM-centered thing. Seems to be a lot of the same poo poo, all over the place politically, although those at the front of the Danish protests seem to have a curated image, professional banners, etc. Quite odd. Also for some reason none of them are being charged for covering their faces as they protest masks.
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Jan 31, 2021 16:51
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I was reading through one of the emergency ordinances that was put in place in a town with riots last week and found it funny that they seemed to just copy/paste an old standard emergency ordinance from somewhere, and one of the measures was that it banned people from wearing face coverings in public
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Jan 31, 2021 17:06
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I wasn't sure where to post it and the cool zone didn't seem exactly like the right place for, I forgot about this thread. Although it started out as an anti-lockdown thing it quickly and weirdly evolved into general mayhem and most of the rioting was done by bored/frustrated youth with leftover fireworks from New Years (since those were banned last year too), so wasn't only the right wing per se
twoday has issued a correction as of 17:13 on Jan 31, 2021 |
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Jan 31, 2021 17:09
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twoday posted:I was reading through one of the emergency ordinances that was put in place in a town with riots last week and found it funny that they seemed to just copy/paste an old standard emergency ordinance from somewhere, and one of the measures was that it banned people from wearing face coverings in public It's been banned in any context here since 2018 because of THE MUSLIMS and specifically at protests since 2000. Last year's COVID laws doubled the penalty for covering your face during a criminal act.
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Jan 31, 2021 17:17
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SplitSoul posted:I didn't even think to check the Cool Zone thread, probably thought of that as more of a BLM-centered thing. don't be silly, mask laws are only for muslim women
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Jan 31, 2021 18:11
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twoday posted:I wasn't sure where to post it and the cool zone didn't seem exactly like the right place for, I forgot about this thread. Although it started out as an anti-lockdown thing it quickly and weirdly evolved into general mayhem and most of the rioting was done by bored/frustrated youth with leftover fireworks from New Years (since those were banned last year too), so wasn't only the right wing per se The rioters were a mixed bag but they were definitely riled up by the far right politicians. There is also a definite right wing influence in all the Dutch "alternative" media channels in youtube that spread misinformation about covid, vaccines, measures, etc. Big crossover with QAnon, Sovcit and various other conspiracy nuts.
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Jan 31, 2021 19:23
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For sure, and that’s definitely how it started, but I don’t think that the 14 year old who burnt down the theater in Rotterdam, for instance, had very clear political agenda or was Qanon nut
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Jan 31, 2021 21:18
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Wooo, the only far-left Dutch party BIJ1 managed to get enough suport to be able to participate in the upcoming elections where they will probably not get enough votes for a single seat  The far-right is taking it well: "Disaster for the Netherlands!" 
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Feb 1, 2021 20:34
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Impeachment proceedings against the former Danish Minister of Integration have begun, charged with ordering her officials to break the law and subsequently lying to parliament. Probably gonna end up as a nothingburger with at best a slap on the wrist. The Social Democrats have remarked that she "did the right thing, politically", but ended up voting for impeachment anyway. The case is about breaking up asylum seeker couples where one partner was a minor, what she insistently calls "child brides", but instead of reviewing each case individually as prescribed by human rights conventions, she ordered her officials to break up everyone without review. In one instance, this led to a suicide attempt when a pregnant 17-year-old was separated from her 19-year-old husband. Indeed, in all but a few cases the age differences were hardly of concern, and some had actually specifically fled forced marriages, but all that is irrelevant—they could have been legally separated from one another if there had been individual review. Confronted with the fact that she'd given this illegal instruction, she decided to lie to parliament repeatedly and to the Ombudsman. Now she has hilariously been thrown under the bus by her own party, who stood firmly by her from the beginning, but have now for the most part voted for her impeachment. I cannot stress how awful this woman is. The first deportations she was responsible for were a pair of teenaged orphan Hazara brothers sent back to Afghanistan, and the younger one was immediately and brutally murdered by the Taliban. Now she's defending herself by saying her crime was "for the good of the children".
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Feb 2, 2021 19:22
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Støjberg is such a goddamn piece of poo poo
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Feb 3, 2021 08:56
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SplitSoul posted:Impeachment proceedings against the former Danish Minister of Integration have begun, charged with ordering her officials to break the law and subsequently lying to parliament. Probably gonna end up as a nothingburger with at best a slap on the wrist. Congrats on having your own Verdonk. Was this minister a prison warden before becoming a minister by any chance?
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Feb 3, 2021 12:00
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I saw this thread had a 2 rating and came in expecting good drama or something but it’s just some Euro garbage? Rating a 3 until you get your poo poo together and decide to be wholly good or bad so no one else has to make my mistake.
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Feb 3, 2021 12:23
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lmao @ thread title
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Feb 3, 2021 13:13
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Orange Devil posted:Congrats on having your own Verdonk. even worse, she's a career politician who's only had a few very short real jobs
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Feb 3, 2021 13:15
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Carthag Tuek posted:even worse, she's a career politician who's only had a few very short real jobs For context, Verdonk thought burning asylum seekers to death in their cells was the government doing an "adequate job".
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Feb 3, 2021 13:32
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Feb 3, 2021 13:35
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Orange Devil posted:For context, Verdonk thought burning asylum seekers to death in their cells was the government doing an "adequate job". What the gently caress?
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Feb 3, 2021 14:33
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