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Tonfa posted:It has always fascinated me that treating MP as a HP pool variant that has different interactions gets a really strong repulsion reaction from some people 'cause I don't get where they're coming from people often don't like using "spend HP as though it were MP" mechanics, either. from a purely mechanical point of view that kind of thing can be interesting and useful, since generally it's easy enough to heal up, but something about getting closer to death when you use an ability just doesn't feel right at first
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Jan 31, 2021 22:54
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If you could regularly regenerate mana/mp in the majority of games it wouldn't be much of an issue but you never know how that'll shake out beforehand.
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Jan 31, 2021 22:59
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Harrow posted:I'm hopping back and forth between Persona 4 Golden and Persona 5 Royal and I gotta say, all of P5's additions to the combat are fantastic, especially Baton Pass. When I go back to P3 and P4, I really miss Baton Pass. (I don't in P1 or P2 just because they're totally different combat systems without the "knock everything down" mechanic.) Jazerus posted:people often don't like using "spend HP as though it were MP" mechanics, either. from a purely mechanical point of view that kind of thing can be interesting and useful, since generally it's easy enough to heal up, but something about getting closer to death when you use an ability just doesn't feel right at first
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Jan 31, 2021 23:01
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Note that SO3's passive skill system choices did include both HP and MP regen skills, so that issue was addressed. Not to say there weren't other issues, but at the very least it was possible to use skills throughout an entire dungeon without running out of HP/MP assuming you weren't overusing them.
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Jan 31, 2021 23:06
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Tired Moritz posted:remember, no good space rpgs. Xenosaga was one of the first JRPGs I ever played and beat. Whatever some people think of it, I am sad it gave me such unrealistic expectations. It really is shocking there are so few space opera JRPG's.
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Jan 31, 2021 23:07
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making lots of different locations that are wildly aesthetically different means making lots of assets and asset creation is only getting more expensive while jrpgs become less of a big budget genre
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Jan 31, 2021 23:26
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NikkolasKing posted:Xenosaga was one of the first JRPGs I ever played and beat. Whatever some people think of it, I am sad it gave me such unrealistic expectations.
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Jan 31, 2021 23:34
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NikkolasKing posted:Xenosaga was one of the first JRPGs I ever played and beat. Whatever some people think of it, I am sad it gave me such unrealistic expectations. I still have a big soft spot for Xenosaga. I absolutely ate that poo poo up when it was coming out and I still wish it had gotten to be the full six-game series it was planned to be. It made me really love the whole "space fantasy" thing, too. I love settings with both futuristic space travel and weird arcane magic stuff.
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Jan 31, 2021 23:39
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Is anyone picking up P5 strikers in February? Haven't seen much for it but it looks like persona musou?
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Jan 31, 2021 23:45
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Kingtheninja posted:Is anyone picking up P5 strikers in February? Haven't seen much for it but it looks like persona musou? It is very much not a Musou game and is more just an action RPG.
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Jan 31, 2021 23:50
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Last Celebration posted:Everyone should bully Star Ocean 3, it has okay combat until you run into one of the random rear end in a top hat enemies that can just carpet bomb the screen with guard breaking moves but like Endorph said the dungeons range from tedious to godawfully tedious and that’s not even getting into the obvious stuff. SO3 came out around the same time as Xenosaga Episode 1 and there are a few notable shared VAs in the dub. Albel is Albedo Cliff (the jacked bodybuilder) is Allen, a whiny nerd hopelessly in love with the MC Speaking of the Xenosaga MC, she voices Nel's girlfriend Peppita is MOMO And those are the only ones I remember. Just came to mind while Xenosaga was on the brain. Also you don't hear Crispin Freeman in much anymore. And Lia Sargent, Shion's VA, has just vanished.
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Feb 1, 2021 00:06
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I was fine with MP Death in SO3 in the sense that I thought of it as "SMT cast from hit points, but juggling two stats instead." It's not communicated to the player that it's a thing, yeah, but it's not a concept I hated, just was blindsided by it The bigger issue is button feel, especially since you activate specials by HOLDING DOWN ONE OF TWO ATTACK BUTTONS. In a fast paced action RPG Let's not forget characters joining at the start of the game then showing up again near the end with the same stats that you left them with And teeeeedious dungeons!
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Feb 1, 2021 00:19
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Kingtheninja posted:Is anyone picking up P5 strikers in February? Haven't seen much for it but it looks like persona musou? Its basically Persona 5 part two except when you're doing dungeons and get into an encounter it spawns a lite action RPG encounter instead of a turn based one.
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Feb 1, 2021 00:20
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Kingtheninja posted:Is anyone picking up P5 strikers in February? Haven't seen much for it but it looks like persona musou? It started development as a Persona musou but eventually turned into more of just a regular action-RPG. The story takes place the summer after Persona 5's ending, though I hesitate to call the game "Persona 5-2" if only because I don't want to give the impression it has features it doesn't (for example, it doesn't have social links or a daily schedule system or anything like that).
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Feb 1, 2021 00:23
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Ah okay, I was looking at either that or bravely 2 for a buy. I think I'll wait on P5S for a while then.
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Feb 1, 2021 00:45
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Weirdly despite being pretty down on P5 and never even finishing it, I kinda want to get P5S. I think most of that is because of Dragalia Lost having the music though.
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Feb 1, 2021 01:55
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NikkolasKing posted:SO3 came out around the same time as Xenosaga Episode 1 and there are a few notable shared VAs in the dub. Takes me back to that 5-10 year period when Michael McConnohie was in everything, usually as major antagonists and authority figures. Margulis in Xenosaga, Godwin in Suikoden V, and a bunch of less memorable Star Ocean roles.
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Feb 1, 2021 03:26
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as the person who always feels compelled to defend so2 as my favorite game, here are the star ocean games, ranked: 1) Star Ocean TSS/Second Evolution (which one's 1 and which one's 1.5 is pretty much a FFT/WOTL deal) 2) Star Ocean: Blue Sphere (did fun things with the game boy, neat combo system, no translation alas) 3) Star Ocean First Departure 4) Star Ocean: Anamnesis (yes, I'm rating the phone game above most of the mainline titles. This is mostly because of the combat system, which actually feels fun to play) -------- probably not worth playing dividing line -------- 5) Star Ocean 6) Star Ocean 3 7) Star Ocean 5 8) Star Ocean 4
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Feb 1, 2021 03:37
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Delsaber posted:Takes me back to that 5-10 year period when Michael McConnohie was in everything, usually as major antagonists and authority figures. Margulis in Xenosaga, Godwin in Suikoden V, and a bunch of less memorable Star Ocean roles. Ah yes, he was indeed a general dude in the bad guy army in SO3 and a couple different roles in SO4, Lymle's grandfather and the big computer AI thing at the end and maybe one or two more. As I said, Xenosaga was pretty much my intro to anime and JRPG's so him and Kirk Thornton have been with me forever. If it was a dub made in the late 90s or early 2000s, they were in it, maybe een having multiple roles, like how McConnohie was both Anji and the old Oniwaban leader in Rurouni Kenshin. They gave him two major roles in the exact same arc. As for Thornton, I watched Fushigi Yuugi partly because I read David Hayter was the male lead. Going from him as Solid Snake and Thornton as Space Trucker Captain Mathews to bishie husbando Tamahome and Prince Hotohori was something else.
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Feb 1, 2021 03:42
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Leraika posted:2) Star Ocean: Blue Sphere (did fun things with the game boy, neat combo system, no translation alas) You've been missing out for a long time? https://www.romhacking.net/translations/1595/ e: oh right no story translation, duh
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Feb 1, 2021 04:03
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kirbysuperstar posted:You've been missing out for a long time? That's the long and short of it, yep.
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Feb 1, 2021 04:22
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Leraika posted:as the person who always feels compelled to defend so2 as my favorite game, here are the star ocean games, ranked: Hello fellow SO2 lover!   I agree with this mostly with the caveat that I didn't play Anamnesis or 5. And I'd probably put 3 above the dividing line but just barely.
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Feb 1, 2021 04:29
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Okay, I have to be missing something here in endgame CSIII with Black Zemurian Ore. The game says any Orbal Workshop can turn shards into Ore, but for the life of me I cannot see where the option to do it is.
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Feb 1, 2021 13:19
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lunar detritus posted:The whole happiness means nothing if it's not earned with hard work and suffering thing really shows how conservative these games are. I mean, it's not really a surprise but still. You can read it that way (and I do recall a few characters saying this ad verbatim) but it's not the only counterargument. The game also makes it pretty clear that by trying to grant everybody full happiness, you'll need to create mutually exclusive wishes and fantasies true at the same time and/or overwrite people's personalities to be fine with their lot in life. Look at the homeless guy who remains homeless but is just content with his lot in life, rather than Maruki's fantasy actually fixing systemic issues like homelessness. Maruki's solution to unhappiness is quick fix bandaids held together by duct tape and brainwashing. In a lot of ways I think Persona 5's original ending was way more conservative than the story arc added in P5R what with the whole thank you for getting rid of the antigod loving up society and causing bad eggs in the police and political system; the sensible adults will take it over from here and you can trust the reasonable authority figures again, children. At least P5R has the cast pushing back against somebody claiming "I know what you want and what's good for you, and you just need to take my word for it".
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Feb 1, 2021 14:54
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Okay, I have to be missing something here in endgame CSIII with Black Zemurian Ore. The game says any Orbal Workshop can turn shards into Ore, but for the life of me I cannot see where the option to do it is. It should be the same option as using u-materials to enhance weapons.
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Feb 1, 2021 15:01
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Sakurazuka posted:It should be the same option as using u-materials to enhance weapons. That's what I assumed, but I scrolled through it several times without seeing the option. I must be blind, I swear. I'll probably see it at the first one of those charging stations, now that I've gone to the Cathedral of Heimdallr, and just kick myself for missing it.
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Feb 1, 2021 15:03
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Deltasquid posted:You can read it that way (and I do recall a few characters saying this ad verbatim) but it's not the only counterargument. The game also makes it pretty clear that by trying to grant everybody full happiness, you'll need to create mutually exclusive wishes and fantasies true at the same time and/or overwrite people's personalities to be fine with their lot in life. Look at the homeless guy who remains homeless but is just content with his lot in life, rather than Maruki's fantasy actually fixing systemic issues like homelessness. Maruki's solution to unhappiness is quick fix bandaids held together by duct tape and brainwashing. Another interesting thing is that (P5R ending spoilers) accepting Maruki's offer counts for the "complete the game/see the ending" trophy, unlike the earlier bad endings (Joker getting shot or accepting Yaldabaoth's offer). It's intended to be seen as a valid choice. Now, we play video games, and we know that an ending isn't the true ending if it doesn't come with a final dungeon and a final boss fight, so whether it's intended as a valid choice or not doesn't really matter--we know it's not the real ending. That's why it's also--and this is probably my hottest take on P5R--a good choice to redo the "true ending" the way they did. I loved the whole roadtrip ending in vanilla P5, but I think after the Maruki arc, it wouldn't quite feel right to end on such an uncomplicated, sunny note. Joker needing to leave without his friends, who barely get time to say goodbye, while knowing that he and his friends are basically on a terror watchlist forever, I think adds a little extra weight to the decision to end Maruki's reality. It's still a happy ending, but a bit more somber. They did have to lose something to achieve it.
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Feb 1, 2021 15:05
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Jazerus posted:people often don't like using "spend HP as though it were MP" mechanics, either. from a purely mechanical point of view that kind of thing can be interesting and useful, since generally it's easy enough to heal up, but something about getting closer to death when you use an ability just doesn't feel right at first MP-death is an interesting concept. If both 0 HP and 0 MP can kill you, both suddenly kind of represent only one resource anymore: Your lifeforce. Makes it feel like one of them is redundant now. I'd suggest that games like Paladin's Quest do it better, because they introduce MP-death by simplifying their skill-systems into only using one resource (HP). Same effects on gameplay, but less of a counter-intuitive surprise if a player manages to miss the tutorial on MP-death. Also works better if the devs forgot to tell the player, because the system is immediately obvious as soon as you use your first skill. 
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Feb 1, 2021 15:10
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I remember when I first played Persona 3, which I think is the first SMT-related game I played that had skills that cost HP (I hadn't played SMT3 yet). I thought it was an awful idea. Why would I ever use physical skills? They made my characters lose HP, and if their HP hits 0, they die! What a terrible deal! Turns out I was extremely wrong and HP-costing skills are actually super useful. Restoring HP is a lot easier than restoring SP/MP and it makes HP skills much more efficient ways of dealing damage. Took me a while to get over that initial "why would I use a skill that hurts me???" hump though.
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Feb 1, 2021 15:14
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two different types of damage that hit two different types of health is not an inherently poor concept for an RPG system though.
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Feb 1, 2021 15:14
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Amppelix posted:two different types of damage that hit two different types of health is not an inherently poor concept for an RPG system though. Persona balances out using HP for its phys skills by making magic really powerful, so it's real easy to burn health with the big-hitter skills like God Hand and recover HP afterwards. The problem with MP Death, for me at least, is it just makes combat feel unrewarding because you can accidentally kill yourself from having fun with the combat mechanics and it's just not a good feedback loop. At least in a conventional RPG if your MP's gone you can still attack/do stuff in a fight. It's all the worse when you have a three-man party format, because you've got two ways to die (especially with MP-Drain skills in some fights) and if one goes down you have to employ both of the others to use a revival item AND try to heal them back up before something casually bops them on the head and kills them again.
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Feb 1, 2021 15:27
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I don't think MP death is bad in and of itself but the system better be built around it rather than it just being bolted on. It should consider both how it functions in isolated combat and how it functions through the attrition of consecutive combats.
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Feb 1, 2021 15:29
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And a system where enemies also have multiple kinds of health comes with a completely different set of considerations. You don't want killing a boss through MP exhaustion to mean that all the HP damage you did was completely pointless, for example.
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Feb 1, 2021 15:36
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Harrow posted:That's why it's also--and this is probably my hottest take on P5R--a good choice to redo the "true ending" the way they did. I loved the whole roadtrip ending in vanilla P5, but I think after the Maruki arc, it wouldn't quite feel right to end on such an uncomplicated, sunny note. Joker needing to leave without his friends, who barely get time to say goodbye, while knowing that he and his friends are basically on a terror watchlist forever, I think adds a little extra weight to the decision to end Maruki's reality. It's still a happy ending, but a bit more somber. They did have to lose something to achieve it. It could also just be that they turned the roadtrip ending of P5 into its own game (P5S), and in that game the circumstances for them going on a road trip are different than in the original P5 ending, so they changed the ending in P5R to be more consistent between games. (very minor spoilers for the beginning of P5S) Basically in the original P5 ending your characters just decided to go on a roadtrip just as a vacation, but in P5S the impetus for going on a roadtrip is that you get a mission that requires you to investigate things happening in different parts of Japan. And the first part of your mission takes place in Tokyo before you go anywhere else. Also you have a different car from the one in the P5 ending.
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Feb 1, 2021 16:35
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Item Getter posted:It could also just be that they turned the roadtrip ending of P5 into its own game (P5S), and in that game the circumstances for them going on a road trip are different than in the original P5 ending, so they changed the ending in P5R to be more consistent between games. I dunno if that quite matters, really. P5S takes place months later, over summer break, and starts with Joker coming to Tokyo to reunite with everyone. P5 (both vanilla and Royal) ends in March. So either way, he went home and had to come back. Whether they went on a road trip to take him home or whether he left on a train doesn't really matter by the time P5S happens.
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Feb 1, 2021 16:37
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Finally starting to get the hang of the mechanics in P4G, although understanding Fusion and Compendium stuff was like reading a foreign language at the start. Are you expected to create the majority of the personas you use in the game, or are you expected to find most of them while grinding in dungeons?
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Feb 1, 2021 17:35
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anakha posted:Finally starting to get the hang of the mechanics in P4G, although understanding Fusion and Compendium stuff was like reading a foreign language at the start. All of your good ones will be fused, so you can inherit the skills, and gain huge boosts to your Persona's exp. Dungeon ones can be used as material fodder in fusions, but that's about it.
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Feb 1, 2021 17:39
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anakha posted:Finally starting to get the hang of the mechanics in P4G, although understanding Fusion and Compendium stuff was like reading a foreign language at the start. Fusing personas is how you make really good personas so those will be the majority of what you use.
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Feb 1, 2021 17:40
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anakha posted:Finally starting to get the hang of the mechanics in P4G, although understanding Fusion and Compendium stuff was like reading a foreign language at the start. Anything you get in a dungeon is fusion fodder, as is anything that's learned its last skill (You can tell by the number of "?" symbols in a horizontal row near their skill list in their profile page if it's the same as vanilla Persona 4).
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Feb 1, 2021 17:45
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Harrow posted:I dunno if that quite matters, really. P5S takes place months later, over summer break, and starts with Joker coming to Tokyo to reunite with everyone. P5 (both vanilla and Royal) ends in March. So either way, he went home and had to come back. Whether they went on a road trip to take him home or whether he left on a train doesn't really matter by the time P5S happens. Strikers was made in parallel to Royal and doesn't apparently reference it. No Kasumi either, even as a dlc which is a shame.
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Feb 1, 2021 17:48
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