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The investigation is over.
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Feb 2, 2021 20:47
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So this is the only post of his I see on a quick check https://twitter.com/ray8fisher/status/1356271405210460162?s=19 What exactly is the big deal that I'm missing. Is there an older post getting dragged up somewhere
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Feb 2, 2021 20:51
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Feb 2, 2021 20:52
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Silas doesn't die in Justice League.site posted:So this is the only post of his I see on a quick check It's from this: https://variety.com/2020/film/news/ray-fisher-joss-whedon-justice-league-1234695831/
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Feb 2, 2021 20:53
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It's hard to find unbiased sources on this story.site posted:So this is the only post of his I see on a quick check It seems bait-y? Are there people saying this? People on twitter are treating this film like its going to be the Orson Welles cut of The Magnificent Ambersons or something. It's a CGI heavy superhero movie, not the director's cut of The Godfather. OldMemes fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Feb 2, 2021 |
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Feb 2, 2021 20:53
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site posted:So this is the only post of his I see on a quick check I take issue in Batfleck not yelling "I'M THE GOD DAMNED BATMAN!"
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Feb 2, 2021 20:55
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Batman does use his catchphrase. "I'm rich."
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Feb 2, 2021 20:56
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OldMemes posted:People on twitter are treating this film like its going to be the Orson Welles cut of The Magnificent Ambersons or something. It's a CGI heavy superhero movie, not the director's cut of The Godfather.
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Feb 2, 2021 21:12
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Mr Hootington posted:I take issue in Batfleck not yelling "I'M THE GOD DAMNED BATMAN!" "Bees. My god."
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Feb 2, 2021 21:12
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Aphrodite posted:Silas doesn't die in Justice League. The bullshit aggressive meme was made in response to people complaining about Cyborg not saying booyah in the Snyder Cut, where Silas does die.
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Feb 2, 2021 21:16
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Christ the Snyderverse seems to produce an inordinate amount of drama. Anyway. Do you suppose Carol Danvers was around when Maria Rambeau died? Will we get a scene in Captain Marvel 2 where Carol deals with the disappearance of Monica, or Maria's cancer coming out of remission?
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Feb 2, 2021 22:04
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So what I'm gathering is that the guy who's only posts in here are complaining about ray fisher, made up something regarding one tweet that was made yesterday and a 9 month old variety article to once again complain about ray fisher ^^^ they'd better lol
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Feb 2, 2021 22:08
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site posted:So what I'm gathering is that the guy who's only posts in here are complaining about ray fisher, made up something regarding one tweet that was made yesterday and a 9 month old variety article to once again complain about ray fisher Nah, I'm just finding it strange, and was interested in other people's takes on it, who know more about Cyborg than I do.
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Feb 2, 2021 22:13
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https://twitter.com/ThePlaylist/status/1356649415323381771?s=20
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Feb 2, 2021 23:18
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Fisher clearly went through some severe mistreatment wherein management evidently couldn't tell the difference between him, a serious black actor who signed on to [what was sold to him as] a serious role...and their own character of Cyborg, a D-lister who they could deprecate and fleece at their whim with no consequences. That said, as a complete unaware third-party observer, it's definitely frustrating to hear him give all these broad declarations about all this abuse that he and others went through that...he can't actually explain or give any concrete details about. Even me calling it "severe mistreatment" is a completely nebulous thing that I'm taking his word for through zero evidence. We just have to accept that Whedon's an rear end in a top hat, well that's fair enough. Geoff Johns is also an rear end in a top hat. Hmm, alright, I can see that. Jon Berg is an rear end in a top hat too. Uh, don't know him very much, kinda having to take it on faith here. Walter Hamada's an rear end in a top hat too. Okay... And of course we understand that he can't describe any of this so publicly...except that he's doing that anyway and thereby urging everyone to take his side on a matter that we don't know anything about.
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Feb 2, 2021 23:23
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I think the world is ready for a Joker that is a blurry stormtrooper.
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Feb 2, 2021 23:59
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I'm glad they gave him a mustache.
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Feb 3, 2021 00:03
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theironjef posted:I think the world is ready for a Joker that is a blurry stormtrooper. Snyder's bold new vision for the Joker: the out of focus actor from Deconstructing Harry.
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Feb 3, 2021 00:04
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Cesar Romero’s ghost as joker confirmed.
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Feb 3, 2021 00:04
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If he really did have a big Salvador Dali mustache like it looks like there, that would be really funny and cool.
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Feb 3, 2021 00:07
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It's Leto so it would be made out of his pubic hair though.
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Feb 3, 2021 00:09
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Aphrodite posted:It's Leto so it would be made out of his pubic hair though. Lol
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Feb 3, 2021 00:10
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Funnily enough it reminds me of one of the first released images of Ledger's Joker, it also had him out of focus causing the smile to be one of the more dominant things to cut through.
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Feb 3, 2021 00:13
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I remember literally nobody demanding that Cyborg say "booyah" but I do recall a lot of people saying "it's weird that they keep trying to make this character A Thing but persist in making him the exact opposite of the one version of the character who is actually popular."
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Feb 3, 2021 00:25
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BrianWilly posted:Fisher clearly went through some severe mistreatment wherein management evidently couldn't tell the difference between him, a serious black actor who signed on to [what was sold to him as] a serious role...and their own character of Cyborg, a D-lister who they could deprecate and fleece at their whim with no consequences. This is what I've been trying to say, but worded much better, thank you.
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Feb 3, 2021 01:05
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Snyder said that Cyborg is the heart of the film and gave Ray Fisher, an essentially unknown actor, a real voice at crafting his character. Then Joss comes along, rips all that out from under him, reduces him to a caricature, and is supported by the DC top brass for doing it. The line "booyah" represents all of that, so wonder it's such a sore spot for him. The word itself isn't the problem, it's the entire thing it represents. Frankly it's weird how some of the people in this thread are ignoring all the context surrounding it and it kind of is coming dangerously close to sounding like you want to call Fisher uppity.
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Feb 3, 2021 01:06
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This is the second time today people just wishing there were more details with the Ray Fisher abuse issue has been responded to with “actually you’re just borderline racist”. Can we not?
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Feb 3, 2021 01:18
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Racism is the entire context surrounding this conversation and why Ray Fisher made that tweet. Like Schwarzwald said, it's PoC erasure in the film, and not understanding why Ray Fisher has a problem with that is pretty lovely. It's a pretty deep seated problem in Hollywood and Fisher is using his personal experiences with it in an attempt to fight back. Good for him, especially as a relatively unknown black actor. On set must have been pretty bad, going from Snyder who, like I said, called Cyborg the heart of the film, to Joss (supported by the DC brass), who I'm guessing was pretty dismissive of Fisher. stratdax fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Feb 3, 2021 |
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Feb 3, 2021 01:39
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A talking coyote posted:This is the second time today people just wishing there were more details with the Ray Fisher abuse issue has been responded to with “actually you’re just borderline racist”. When someone's entire post history in the thread is" just asking questions" over and over about this one specific thing it's not exactly a stretch
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Feb 3, 2021 01:41
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I was about to post that I'll be thankful when it's March and we can talk talking about the Synder Cut forever. But all I can think now is "We've got to do the Synder Cut discussion again, BSS!" "But we already did it. It took four years, but we did it. It's done." "Yes, but we've got to do it again from different angles! Again and again. And again and again and again!" (Note this is on the Synder cut in general, not Ray Fisher's absolutely legitimate complaints about the bullshit he's had to endure)
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Feb 3, 2021 01:44
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I think people generally have the impression where a studio changing someone's role, reducing it, or even cutting it outright isn't exactly "abusive" in a production. I mean, it happens all the time right? It's their character and their movie, they can do what they want with it. So in some people's minds, Fisher's just being entitled or, yes, uppity for complaining about the situation if it really comes down to nothing more than Cyborg, of all characters, being downsized. Except, well, no, an actor should absolutely have certain protections against being treated like that. An acting job is like any other job; you're providing your time and labor to a project, you have certain expectations for what you're agreeing to do, and the filmmakers can't just go "Okay I know you agreed to play a serious character, but we've decided to make it comedy instead" especially if it's not even the filmmaker that you originally agreed to play the character for. There are reasons for Guild protections against that exact sort of doublespeak, so that actors without the right kind of clout aren't being taken advantage of by studios with that kind of power. So yeah. I get it. I'm as much on Fisher's side as anyone can be...again, knowing barely anything about the situation besides him just naming names after names with zero context about just what exactly we're supposed to be mad about here. But unfortunately, for a lot of uninvolved people -- which is, like, practically everyone -- it feels like there's some sort of onus to have to be on his side about this or else you're somehow victim-blaming or even racist, which is also really frustrating. The fact is it's some guy going up to everyone and saying "C'mon, why aren't you with me on this?" on what seems from all accounts to be a private grievance that -- again, I cannot stress this enough -- we're not actually allowed to know any details about.
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Feb 3, 2021 01:45
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Basically this. Nobody is actually on the studios side here and none of us are owed any information from the guy. People here aren’t demanding information directly from Ray Fisher. Wanting to know more about a story and saying “man I wish there was more info” doesn’t make you racist. You can be behind the dude and still want to know more there’s nothing wrong with that.
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Feb 3, 2021 02:01
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BrianWilly posted:But unfortunately, for a lot of uninvolved people -- which is, like, practically everyone -- it feels like there's some sort of onus to have to be on his side about this or else you're somehow victim-blaming or even racist, which is also really frustrating. Critique-wise, if people were just saying "I need more information " and leaving it at that? Fine. But poo poo like this: OldMemes posted:Is he just being contrarian for the sake of it now? It's why I'm flip flopping between "Fisher has a valid point" and "Fisher has valid points about the industry, but is also milking it a bit for attention".
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Feb 3, 2021 02:11
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Do we really need to rehash this argument again?
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Feb 3, 2021 02:17
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Fangz posted:Do we really need to rehash this argument again? This is an evergreen post.
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Feb 3, 2021 02:24
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Fangz posted:Do we really need to rehash this argument again? Too soon for a new thread title?
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Feb 3, 2021 02:30
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OldMemes posted:If he has a thesis, he needs to make it clear and explain it in detail, all these implications are making him look a little toxic. Uh, what
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Feb 3, 2021 02:40
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The claims that Ray Fisher has had in his campaign are pretty effectively summed up here https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2562041/ray-fishers-cyborg-a-timeline-of-the-justice-league-controversy-and-his-potential-dceu-exit Essentially that Joss Whedon was abusive on set, and that Geoff Johns was an enabler of said abuse. Among them was that Geoff Johns threatened Ray Fisher's career for attempting to speak up about Joss Whedon's behavior on the set August last year. He also named Jon Berg as assisting in this enabling behavior, among alleging that Ray Fisher was just upset that they wanted him to say "Booyah!" Fisher was still under an NDA at this point, but emphasized that he would not relent in speaking out what he could. The investigation gets launched by Warner later in August, hiring a 3rd party to conduct the investigation. Starting in September, Fisher claimed that Walter Hamada attempted to throw Whedon and Berg under the bus with a "deal" that he would relent on Geoff Johns. Ray Fisher obviously did not take that deal, with Warner firing back by claiming it wasn't true and that Ray Fisher was not being cooperative with the investigators, despite Fisher posting proof that he had indeed met with the investigation. Jason Mamoa and Kiersey Clemons then throw their support behind Ray Fisher as well. At this point, Warner apparently announced a fake Frosty the Snowman movie starring Jason Mamoa that was written by Geoff Johns. Statement from Jason Mamoa quote:THIS poo poo HAS TO STOP AND NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT @ray8fisher AND EVERYONE ELSE WHO EXPERIENCED WHAT HAPPEN UNDER THE WATCH OF @wbpictures NEEDS PROPER INVESTIGATION I just think it’s hosed up that people released a fake Frosty announcement without my permission to try to distract from Ray Fisher speaking up about the lovely way we were treated on Justice League reshoots. #IStandWithRayFisher. aloha j Fisher made a request that the investigation team be changed because the hired investigator was not interviewing key witnesses about the situation. Come late October and Fisher gave an interview where he alleged that Whedon was responsible for cutting multiple characters played by actors of color, and that he had the skin tone of one actor changed in post production. December 11th saw the investigation concluding with "remedial action" being implemented. Fisher indicated that some had already happened, and more was on the way. He also indicated that Whedon leaving The Nevers was in part because of the investigation. Following the investigation, Ray Fisher indicated that he would not work with Walter Hamada anymore after Zack Snyder's Justice League, considering him an enabler of the abuse that took place on set, as well as obstructing the Justice League investigation. He has indicated that he intends to not return regardless of what happens, so long as Walter Hamada remains in charge. None of this, to me, comes across as vague accusations or attention seeking. Perhaps if you would like insight into every detail of what happened on the Justice League set, then it doesn't go into detail on that beyond that Whedon was abusive. I don't think the specifics matter, but it seems that a large amount of people agreed this was true. As for Berg, Hamada, and Johns, it would seem that they are obviously not being held responsible, and Fisher is not happy with that, prompting his departure. Now I hope we can move on past this whole "But what if he's just attention seeking?" bit that keeps coming up. Someone said it earlier, but the man is basically torching his career by pissing off a lot of people, as well as giving up a role that was very significant to him. I don't think attention seeking factors into it at that point.
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Feb 3, 2021 02:50
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I think the tension comes from wanting a narrative arc and life kind of isn't really like that. Like in a fictional story, Whedon being fired from The Nevers would come with a public acknowledgement from WB and from even Whedon or his management that that is why, but most likely there are contractual or other legal reasons why they can't do that. So you end up with a chain of events that aren't explicitly linked and as such it feels like something's missing, even if the parts that are missing are likely due to gag orders and NDAs. Edit: Plus I think there's a slight disbelief that the guy is torpedoing his career over a Zack Snyder movie, even though the racism is the bigger concern from his part. Gaz-L fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Feb 3, 2021 |
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Feb 3, 2021 03:33
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I mean Zack and him both worked on that character which is a more worthwhile thing than most films offer.
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Feb 3, 2021 03:54
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