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Animal-Mother posted:I wish we could've seen Q gently caress with other species. I'm sure the Klingons would react well their race being put on trial. The Ferengi would find a way to bribe an omnipotent being. The closest we got was the two-man show De Lancie did with Nimoy where Spock out-logics Q. The what now?
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Feb 2, 2021 07:26
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Senor Tron posted:The what now? BEHOLD. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kTlGmmU4ao
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Feb 2, 2021 07:32
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Gully Foyle posted:It's also not magically solved because the officer who gets drumheaded (if you want to call it that) still has his career hosed over it, and they never pretend it's all forgiven for him. That's what I mean, the quarter romulan guy's life is still ruined because of his genetic background(!) but no one really asks how Sadie could have come so far to begin with or why Starfleet are even vetting applicants based on racial genetics at all. They feel sorry for the guy who got hosed over but give themselves a big pat on the back for having chased away the threat of authoritarianism once again with no further questions. Anyway, to talk about some more hidden gems, I thought Lessons ended up being a surprising heartfelt character drama without getting bogged down in any sci-fi allegories or thriller plotlines which was a refreshing change for TNG. And Time Squared was a real fun weird science episode. I have a big soft spot for any time they really get in over their heads and don't figure out how to disarm the danger with some type of modulated pulse from the deflector array, future Picard's pysche being broken by the trauma of time travel and present Picard loving murdering him as a last ditch effort to break the time loop just worked for me even if I'm not entirely sure why it worked. The earlier seasons generally seemed alot happier to put the crew in weird and alienating situations, as the show goes on everything starts to feel a little too safe and quantifiable, you can definitely feel the looming presence of Voyager in the later space anomaly episodes imo
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Feb 2, 2021 10:28
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multijoe posted:That's what I mean, the quarter romulan guy's life is still ruined because of his genetic background(!) but no one really asks how Sadie could have come so far to begin with or why Starfleet are even vetting applicants based on racial genetics at all. They feel sorry for the guy who got hosed over but give themselves a big pat on the back for having chased away the threat of authoritarianism once again with no further questions. He's screwed because he lied on his Starfleet application about an otherwise-innocuous question, the future equivalent of checking the "what race are you" boxes, while Admiral Satie was the only one obsessed with the content of that lie in her pursuit of "enemies of the Federation" (and Worf a bit, because of his deal with Romulans). And again, nobody was patting themselves on the back and the episode's coda was all about constantly asking further questions to prevent another Satie from happening. Were you actually watching or was this a background noise thing? It really sounds like you're arguing against a half-remembered version with the gaps filled in by your own biases and worst-case assumptions about what TV must've been like back then instead of, you know, what actually happened. McSpanky fucked around with this message at 10:36 on Feb 2, 2021 |
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Feb 2, 2021 10:33
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Senor Tron posted:The what now? Oh it's amazing. There's a sequel too, but good luck finding either of them unfortunately. I don't think there was ever a digital release, so you'll have to track down  or CD's on eBay (they're there, but they're kinda expensive)
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Feb 2, 2021 10:47
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McSpanky posted:He's screwed because he lied on his Starfleet application about an otherwise-innocuous question, the future equivalent of checking the "what race are you" boxes, while Admiral Satie was the only one obsessed with the content of that lie in her pursuit of "enemies of the Federation" (and Worf a bit, because of his deal with Romulans). And again, nobody was patting themselves on the back and the episode's coda was all about constantly asking further questions to prevent another Satie from happening. He felt compelled to lie about his species (one hopes the concept of race, which cannot exist without racism, is not alive in Star Trek) from fear of xenophobia. That alone casts doubt on the federation's egalitarianism and suggests that Satie is not alone in her views.
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Feb 2, 2021 10:52
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cenotaph posted:He felt compelled to lie about his species (one hopes the concept of race, which cannot exist without racism, is not alive in Star Trek) from fear of xenophobia. That alone casts doubt on the federation's egalitarianism and suggests that Satie is not alone in her views. Exactly. And the end speech is about continued vigilance about threats like Sadie, who is treated as an anomaly who has now been negated, no word is given it the conditions that allowed someone like her to come to power to begin with or how that reflects against the stated ideals of the Federation. She's just a single bad actor who has been put back in her hole, they just need to watch out for the next individual bad actor!
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Feb 2, 2021 10:58
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multijoe posted:Eno word is given it the conditions that allowed someone like her to come to power to begin with Starfleet has a long and storied history of its admirals benefiting from a "fail upward" ethos 
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Feb 2, 2021 11:01
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multijoe posted:Exactly. Maybe they'll create a committee to look into the creation of a commission to raise awareness of anti-Romulan prejudice.
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Feb 2, 2021 11:06
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cenotaph posted:Maybe they'll create a committee to look into the creation of a commission to raise awareness of anti-Romulan prejudice.
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Feb 2, 2021 11:20
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"Data's Day", where a Vulcan ambassador is revealed to be a deep-cover Romulan agent, had already aired - and I believe Satie mentions it during the episode.
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Feb 2, 2021 11:29
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Angry Salami posted:"Data's Day", where a Vulcan ambassador is revealed to be a deep-cover Romulan agent, had already aired - and I believe Satie mentions it during the episode. Correct, that's her main bit of evidence against Picard
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Feb 2, 2021 11:32
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Correct, that's her main bit of evidence against Picard
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Feb 2, 2021 13:17
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Drone posted:Oh it's amazing. What do you mean? both audio versions have been on iTunes for years.
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Feb 2, 2021 14:34
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SuperTeeJay posted:They should have played parts of that episode during the court scenes, using a contemporary VHS tape in the same style as Spaceballs. The Drumhead was originally written to avoid having another clip show...
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Feb 2, 2021 14:40
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mateo360 posted:What do you mean? both audio versions have been on iTunes for years. Ah, I stand corrected (and I don't use iTunes).
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Feb 2, 2021 15:01
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RIP Mark Twain - had no idea Holbrook had still been kicking.
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Feb 2, 2021 15:10
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HD DAD posted:RIP Mark Twain - had no idea Holbrook had still been kicking.
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Feb 2, 2021 15:47
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Well now I’m a huge dummy! Still a shame. Disregard.
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Feb 2, 2021 15:49
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cenotaph posted:He felt compelled to lie about his species (one hopes the concept of race, which cannot exist without racism, is not alive in Star Trek) from fear of xenophobia. That alone casts doubt on the federation's egalitarianism and suggests that Satie is not alone in her views. We know at least one race still exists in Star Trek, because a freshman at the Academy won it by passing everybody on the last hill. Damnedest thing I ever saw! (Also, speciesism is a pretty consistent stand-in for racism in Trek.)
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Feb 2, 2021 16:10
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CPColin posted:(Also, speciesism is a pretty consistent stand-in for racism in Trek.) Ironically, this has in-universe merit, since the different species are actually different. Like Vulcans are telepathic and have violent emotions. Though I guess a lot are just "humans, but with different foreheads and culture", making them more stand-inny.
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Feb 2, 2021 16:20
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Vulcans go nuts over their emotions more as a result of their hosed up repressive culture not teaching them any other way to deal with it than because of any innate attribute of their species.
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Feb 2, 2021 16:34
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skasion posted:Vulcans go nuts over their emotions more as a result of their hosed up repressive culture not teaching them any other way to deal with it than because of any innate attribute of their species. Nah Trek says that they were doing a version of WW3 with psychic WMDs until Sarek showed up with his 5-step meditation programme.
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Feb 2, 2021 16:46
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Alchenar posted:Nah Trek says that they were doing a version of WW3 with psychic WMDs until Sarek showed up with his 5-step meditation programme. Humans also did world wide mutual annihilation in Star Trek but nobody acts like that was a byproduct of their emotionalism except Q, who is a dickhead
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Feb 2, 2021 17:01
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I thoroughly enjoy the science fiction trope that all aliens are highly proficient at one thing or have an excess of one quality that humans have, while humans succeed or are destined for greatness because they are mediocre at many things or have a reasonable amount of many qualities, even though that trope predates Star Trek by decades at least.
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Feb 2, 2021 17:11
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There has been multiple examples of Vulcan emotions being exceptionally strong, like when Sarek did a mind meld with Picard and Picard just screamed and cried. Plus the whole telepathic transference of emotions, that's not a human thing. Klingons are just (varying degrees of) ugly humans plus a hosed up culture. And two penises.
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Feb 2, 2021 17:20
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Quite a lot of Trek races are marked by being aggressive assholes it seems
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Feb 2, 2021 18:06
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I mean on one hand there are unfortunate implications to having all aliens of a species have basically the same personality traits, but it's also much more fun from a storytelling perspective than having them basically be just as diverse as us. I do think that by now, we can move past the trope since there's not really much more to do with it. We're at the point where we can say "yeah yeah, there are aliens, what else you got?"
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Feb 2, 2021 18:06
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BonHair posted:There has been multiple examples of Vulcan emotions being exceptionally strong, like when Sarek did a mind meld with Picard and Picard just screamed and cried. Plus the whole telepathic transference of emotions, that's not a human thing. Also Tuvok incapacitated a telepath by giving him the worst of a Vulcan's negative emotions in a mind meld.
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Feb 2, 2021 18:09
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Sir Lemming posted:I mean on one hand there are unfortunate implications to having all aliens of a species have basically the same personality traits, but it's also much more fun from a storytelling perspective than having them basically be just as diverse as us. The Cardassians are the best race because they're one of the only ones the series really sits down and spends some time with and shows a huge amount of diversity in their personality and social roles, so they come out of it looking like an actual society and not just a collection of angry/sneaky/nerdy guys
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Feb 2, 2021 19:11
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multijoe posted:The Cardassians are the best race because they're one of the only ones the series really sits down and spends some time with and shows a huge amount of diversity in their personality and social roles, so they come out of it looking like an actual society and not just a collection of angry/sneaky/nerdy guys Agreed. And their actual alien things are just being comfortable at slightly warmer temperatures and spoonheads. Really, this is DS9s strongest suit, having complex characters, especially in this case Dukat abs Garek, who clearly are motivated by more than "I'm a space fascist". It actually starts way back when they're introduced in TNG, the point of the episode is more or less that former enemies are people and you should trust them (even though they're actually sneaky bastards building secret military bases). Borg are still the best alien race, but not really that easy or interesting to write.
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Feb 2, 2021 20:11
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Andorians are Trek’s best alien race, although they’re also kinda just Klingon and Romulan traits blended into one blueberry shake.
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Feb 2, 2021 20:15
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HD DAD posted:Well now I’m a huge dummy! Still a shame. Disregard. For what it’s worth, I had to look through his IMDB page to see if he played Twain on TNG too. Still, that’s both Deep Throats dead now 
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Feb 2, 2021 20:25
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In memorium let us remember his finest work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNTRLPx7IuQ
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Feb 2, 2021 20:32
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91 is pretty good. He liked that role so much that he wrote and performed a one-man show as Mark Twain for some number of years. He'll always be my second-favorite X-Files informant guy.
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Feb 2, 2021 20:38
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My favourite thing about Cardassians is how much they like to talk - again, *mostly*, Damar isn't like that. But I was watching Civil Defense the other day because it's amazing and you can see Garak and Dukat repeatedly try to get into epic hour-long rap battle poetry fights about how much they hate each other, while everyone else is all 'guys please we don't have time there's a crisis'. Like, Dukat will say something and Garak's eyes will light up and he takes a breath to be all OH WELL HERE IS MY TWELVE-PART ESSAY ON WHY YOU SUCK. It's delightful.
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Feb 2, 2021 20:58
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BonHair posted:Agreed. And their actual alien things are just being comfortable at slightly warmer temperatures and spoonheads. Really, this is DS9s strongest suit, having complex characters, especially in this case Dukat abs Garek, who clearly are motivated by more than "I'm a space fascist". It actually starts way back when they're introduced in TNG, the point of the episode is more or less that former enemies are people and you should trust them (even though they're actually sneaky bastards building secret military bases). The Borg are just a hegemonising swarm, except instead of being an organic hegemonising swarm or an artificial hegemonising swarm, they're both at once.
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Feb 2, 2021 21:16
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nine-gear crow posted:For what it’s worth, I had to look through his IMDB page to see if he played Twain on TNG too. Tbf, I’m kinda shocked he never appeared in any Trek series. He seemed like exactly the kind of character actor you’d expect to show up in early TNG.
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Feb 2, 2021 21:20
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multijoe posted:In memorium let us remember his finest work Shame on you, Mr. Clemens!
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Feb 2, 2021 21:31
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Am I missing something? The guy who played Clemens (Jerry Hardin) is still alive as far as I can tell?
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Feb 2, 2021 21:33
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