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Good cards with a gameplan actually describes two of the most recent top-tier decks. DARK Warrior Link and Dragon Link. Also of note is EARTH Machines seems to be seeing success.
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Feb 3, 2021 08:05
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I'd also recommend MBT's own progression series which is very funny and also people get mad and yell but its okay, they're just angry that the cancer exists.
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Feb 3, 2021 08:13
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Charles Bukowski posted:I'd also recommend MBT's own progression series which is very funny and also people get mad and yell but its okay, they're just angry that the cancer exists. the really good part is that they have a ban system that has resulted in pot of greed going untouched for the entire series but hits to classics like fairy box and toll
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Feb 3, 2021 10:55
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ungulateman posted:the really good part is that they have a ban system that has resulted in pot of greed going untouched for the entire series but hits to classics like fairy box and toll 
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Feb 3, 2021 10:58
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I'm literally watching MBT's progression series right now, it's great. Basically the angle with their banlist is that that everything is legal at 3, but at the end of every episode the players that lost in the first round pick one card each to ban. Nobody wants to ban Pot of Greed, because everyone is using it. But things like Fissure and Witch of the Black Forest get banned because there are players that don't have it and see how good it is. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 11:37 on Feb 3, 2021 |
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Feb 3, 2021 11:08
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Cleretic posted:I've been getting really into watching Youtube videos of people playing weirdass formats, and it's made me realize that anyone who's big on Goat Format is not being creative enough. There are way more interesting formats. That sounds about right, my first big hiatus happened shortly after that Dragunity Structure Deck came out(my return meanwhile coincided more or less around the time that box set of dragon decks* came out) , also I should give that series a watch sounds interesting Also truth be told I don't want things frozen, I just want a much more heavy amount of balancing and policing of the existing card pool, ideally this would be done in a way that would ensure that there could be no such thing as a dominant meta for the game but since that is probably impossible I'd be fine with it being instead oriented around ensuring a meta that's as varied in nature as possible *which ironically wasn't actually all that dragon heavy as one was Cyber-Dragons which aren't actually dragons at all^, the Atlantis Dragons deck is actually mostly warriors and spellcasters for the main deck, really the third deck is the only one that had much in the way of actual dragons ^which kinda ties into one of the ideas I've long had for a Yu-Gi-Oh(which apparently my new tablet has already included in it's spell check database which is neat) reboot which would be changing it so that monsters can belong to more than one type, though I'd also be chopping out a few types as part of that(those likely being Cyberse, Wyrm, Fish, Sea Serpent, and maybe Beast-Warrior) to reduce redundancies that allowing monsters to belong to more than one type would cause(arguably Reptile and Winged Beast should also be potentially on the cutting board but I feel they've managed to estabish unique niches for themselves much better than the others), well that and honestly I still think Wyrm and Cyberse being distinct types was a mistake
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Feb 3, 2021 11:22
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Wyrm exists so that they can print dragons without them benefitting from dragon support, also something about them being more like eastern dragons than the traditional yugioh dragon type which is fairly western in origin. Cyberse exist for show lore reasons, and actually are legitimately way more unique than Wyrms are from Dragons, as they're all creatures who live inside cyberspace/computers. Also Fish has an identity, just not much modern cards. The current meta is pretty varied, but by default the goal in Yugioh at meta levels is to win, and you win by having the best deck possible. A meta where we've got 4-6 decks up the top is pretty good, a meta where you've got 1 is terrible. Honestly a lot of the nostalgia for old yugioh to me reads more like nostalgia for playground yugioh. Where you could just jam whatever with your friends and have a fun time, which you cannot do with simulators or at local game stores as easily. Because trust me, most of the history of Yugioh top decks are some form of unbeatable nonsense. Synchro is where Solitaire gameplay straight up comes from in Yugioh, before it there wasn't near as much.
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Feb 3, 2021 14:26
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No one would have nostalgia for yugioh if hand destruction and yatalocks were a playground staple. Which makes me think if a pauper format would work in ygo.
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Feb 3, 2021 14:32
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Watching through Cimooooooooo / Nyhm / MBT's various progression series's has only confirmed to me that old-school Yugioh was just as broken as modern Yugioh, just in a different way.
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Feb 3, 2021 15:33
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No one wants to play against Goat Format Mystic Mine.
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Feb 3, 2021 15:47
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Vandar posted:Watching through Cimooooooooo / Nyhm / MBT's various progression series's has only confirmed to me that old-school Yugioh was just as broken as modern Yugioh, just in a different way. The later GX episodes of Progression made me think Konami really doesn't learn from their mistakes, since set after set of Gage not changing anything about the busted deck he was able to pull really reminded me of all the bad boxes they put in Duel Links after releasing Aleister the Invoker and Purgatrio.
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Feb 3, 2021 16:32
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Justin_Brett posted:The later GX episodes of Progression made me think Konami really doesn't learn from their mistakes, since set after set of Gage not changing anything about the busted deck he was able to pull really reminded me of all the bad boxes they put in Duel Links after releasing Aleister the Invoker and Purgatrio. Nah, that's not fair. Cimo and Gage are playing in a weird fake format where they're allowed to play cards long after they're banned. CED was (most likely) one of the cards that led to Konami creating the banlist in the first place and the card was banned for nearly 15 years in the TCG, even after the errata. If they were following the banlist, Gage would have been allowed to play CED for two episodes.
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Feb 3, 2021 16:57
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Honestly yeah, it's a lot more fair to compare it to the first couple Xyz boxes in Duel Links, since those came out after Al finally got some fairly significant hits. But even then a whole other deck needed to get nuked and Invoked Cocytus was banned because the Xyz we got at the start just couldn't get over them, so there was definitely the same kind of "please forget this ever happened" energy to both.
Justin_Brett fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Feb 3, 2021 |
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Feb 3, 2021 17:16
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Konami banlists aren't intended to correct mistakes, it just frees up room to release more unbalanced product.
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Feb 3, 2021 18:37
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Charles Bukowski posted:Konami banlists aren't intended to correct mistakes, it just frees up room to release more unbalanced product. Eh, from what little I've seen, they do both.
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Feb 3, 2021 18:57
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Vandar posted:Watching through Cimooooooooo / Nyhm / MBT's various progression series's has only confirmed to me that old-school Yugioh was just as broken as modern Yugioh, just in a different way. I quite like that creatures are actually good these days so that you win the game quicker then turn 20
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Feb 3, 2021 19:43
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MBT's prog series is also better because cimo and the other guy aren't in it, you just have to deal with Leah talking on and on about "if he's holding x card then he can do y, but if he has z card...etc." I think MBT made a comment in the most recent video about editing some of that out now as I think that's for her streams benefit.
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Feb 3, 2021 20:16
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King of Solomon posted:Nah, that's not fair. Cimo and Gage are playing in a weird fake format where they're allowed to play cards long after they're banned. CED was (most likely) one of the cards that led to Konami creating the banlist in the first place and the card was banned for nearly 15 years in the TCG, even after the errata. if you'd believe it, it's actually even dumber than that. they're using the modern traditional banlist, but playing without errata. CED is unlimited because it got errataed into being almost-literally unplayable. this is not a good combination.
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Feb 3, 2021 21:18
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ungulateman posted:if you'd believe it, it's actually even dumber than that. they're using the modern traditional banlist, but playing without errata. CED is unlimited because it got errataed into being almost-literally unplayable. this is not a good combination. Oh, I know, it's very stupid. I just didn't mention that detail because other factors seemed more immediately relevant.
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Feb 3, 2021 22:19
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progression series is doomed to stagnate, because gage will never get cards that justify not just building around CED/DAD. they will never stop being game-ending generics, in a game that focuses less and less on powerful generics the further in you go. they either need to change up the rules or play the same game every episode progression playoffs is much better on account of it'll always be a janky mess where nobody can play a truly great deck, but it does have one problem in the form of gavin always running annoying floodgate cards & burn strategies and it's so easy for him to just ban every piece of backrow removal if he's losing games, since there will always be more floodgates/burn than generic removal
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Feb 3, 2021 23:39
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Nah. Gage is going to have to change up his deck soon. Cicroooooooow is playing almost full power Blackwings and his janky CED deck can't keep up. He's going to keep racking up losses unless he makes some big changes.
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Feb 3, 2021 23:54
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Lord_Magmar posted:Wyrm exists so that they can print dragons without them benefitting from dragon support, also something about them being more like eastern dragons than the traditional yugioh dragon type which is fairly western in origin. See that's why I don't like Wyrm it exists for purely artificial reasons, and 99% of Cyberse type cards could have just been Machine or Psychic type monsters, also I forgot to mention that I would be adding one new type with that concept, Toon would be getting upgraded to a full Type Kinda got me imagining a "Playground" format where decks are intentionally not meant to be meta in nature, and indeed decks would be put under regular review to ensure that too strong of one's get removed from the pool, essentially a good guideline for decks in this format would be "would it be fun to see used in one of the animes?" mandatory lesbian posted:I quite like that creatures are actually good these days so that you win the game quicker then turn 20 I feel the opposite, the game worked better when the average game took about eight to twelve turns per player on average unless someone got really lucky/unlucky
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Feb 4, 2021 00:01
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Vandar posted:Nah. Gage is going to have to change up his deck soon. Cicroooooooow is playing almost full power Blackwings and his janky CED deck can't keep up. He's going to keep racking up losses unless he makes some big changes. Yeah, I was gonna say, it's interesting how CED has been slowly losing strength. Mostly because Gage's deck basically has to be jank by nature; while Cimo can implement good archetype decks with a lot of synergy, Gage kinda can't tap into the same because CED would only be slowed down by them, there aren't really cards in that era that would benefit that style of play. Until an archetype turns up that has both lights and darks, focusing down on any archetype is just going to cause one attribute to get in the way of the other. He probably needs to lean more on DAD, who's got much more synergy with the game as it exists right now for them. He's also racked up literally every single Signer Dragon available, which is nothing to sneeze at and can probably support some new approaches.
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Feb 4, 2021 00:18
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Cyberse are programs, compared to machines being actual robots/mechanical beings and psychics being well, psychic or aliens. They have actually quite a good desperation between Cyberse and Machine. Also the whole point of the Toons was that they are riffing on other cards, making them just toon type removes part of the gimmick.
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Feb 4, 2021 01:39
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Lord_Magmar posted:Cyberse are programs, compared to machines being actual robots/mechanical beings and psychics being well, psychic or aliens. Well again it would be part of a change so that monsters can belong to multiple types at once, and still not seeing the point for Cyberse
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Feb 4, 2021 02:56
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Cyberse is weird because it's very specifically 'creatures that exist within a cyber universe / cyber space', and from what I can tell, a specific cyber universe, since the Virtual World cards exist within a different, well, Virtual World (which is why they're Wyrm and Psychic monsters that can't Link Summon).
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Feb 4, 2021 03:24
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Cyberse is very specifically a type that is linked to the anime and is hugely plot important to VRAINS. https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Cyberse_(world) ...which makes Cyberse monsters that aren't connected to VRAINS really, really weird, honestly.
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Feb 4, 2021 04:49
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Vandar posted:Cyberse is very specifically a type that is linked to the anime and is hugely plot important to VRAINS. That's why I feel having it be an actual type and not just an archetype was a bad idea
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Feb 4, 2021 04:53
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drrockso20 posted:That's why I feel having it be an actual type and not just an archetype was a bad idea I mean, you can't do it as an archetype because there are multiple Cyberse based archetypes that exist in VRAINS.  It's fine as it's own type, imo. There are a bunch of Cyberse monsters that wouldn't fit as Machine or Psychic, and it's okay to exist in it's own niche.
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Feb 4, 2021 04:56
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Its (was) also a way to workshop link-oriented cards without having to worry about type support. However making most links generic, because everyone was gated by links in MR4, made that moot.
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Feb 4, 2021 11:57
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Cyberse and wyrm are both more new types for balance reasons and im fine with them in that context. Dragons are already one of if not the best type in the game so im fine with taking some toys from them.
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Feb 4, 2021 13:05
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mandatory lesbian posted:Cyberse and wyrm are both more new types for balance reasons and im fine with them in that context. Dragons are already one of if not the best type in the game so im fine with taking some toys from them. Yeah unfortunately they just kept printing more dragon support and barely giving anything to wyrms
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Feb 4, 2021 18:40
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King of Solomon posted:Nah, that's not fair. Cimo and Gage are playing in a weird fake format where they're allowed to play cards long after they're banned. CED was (most likely) one of the cards that led to Konami creating the banlist in the first place and the card was banned for nearly 15 years in the TCG, even after the errata. You can watch the MBT Cimo one and it confirms it as well. Hand loop, yata lock and magical Scientist FTK. They haven’t even hit Synchros. That’s why it’s funny people want set rotation, it wouldn’t even do anything
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Feb 4, 2021 22:55
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CharlestheHammer posted:You can watch the MBT Cimo one and it confirms it as well. Hand loop, yata lock and magical Scientist FTK. Not sure how that follows, but okay sure. Anyway, did you catch the part where MBT and pals are considering rotating out their pools once they hit GX?
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Feb 5, 2021 00:25
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I'm trying to get into History of Yugioh but my ears start to hurt. Cimoo's pitch starts making my windows vibrate and MBT seems to try and match.
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Feb 5, 2021 00:36
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King of Solomon posted:Not sure how that follows, but okay sure. Anyway, did you catch the part where MBT and pals are considering rotating out their pools once they hit GX? I didn’t that would make the series much less interesting. But I guess I’m not surptised MBT loves set rotation for whatever reason. If they do it I’ll probably just stop watching there are a ton.of these series now anyway Also it follows because all those things I mentioned aren’t power creep. They are things that work entirely on their own and where basically completely seperate eras. Like all three of those formats could happen in set rotation one after another CharlestheHammer fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Feb 5, 2021 |
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Feb 5, 2021 01:09
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CharlestheHammer posted:I didn’t that would make the series much less interesting. But I guess I’m not surptised MBT loves set rotation for whatever reason. If they do it I’ll probably just stop watching there are a ton.of these series now anyway So, walk me through this here. Because what I'm seeing is, Konami made a design mistake that warped the format and forced them to implement a banlist, with the Synchro era the card pool started to catch up in power to the design mistake, and this is an argument against set rotation somehow?
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Feb 5, 2021 01:15
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King of Solomon posted:So, walk me through this here. Because what I'm seeing is, Konami made a design mistake that warped the format and forced them to implement a banlist, with the Synchro era the card pool started to catch up in power to the design mistake, and this is an argument against set rotation somehow? What hand loop and magical scientist predate CED and definitely Scynchros I would argue they are more powerful as well. CED requires a lot of set up and needs priority
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Feb 5, 2021 01:28
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CharlestheHammer posted:What hand loop and magical scientist predate CED and definitely Scynchros Have you ever watched Lithium2300's cross banlist cup?
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Feb 5, 2021 01:33
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I actually haven’t no. I don’t care for Lithium’s content. MBT is probably my favorite creator, but I think his progression series is pretty weak. Not being able to see his friends pulls and deck building kind of makes them less fun. Even if I understand why he doesn’t upload 2 hour shows.
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Feb 5, 2021 01:50
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