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perepelki posted:i'm jesus But are you gay?
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Jan 25, 2021 01:41
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you are an amalgam poster in a sea of posters
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Jan 25, 2021 02:03
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By popular demand posted:But are you gay? Nebalebadingdong posted:you are an amalgam poster in a sea of posters
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Jan 25, 2021 03:07
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What's the word on the street about the new Labor leader? She seems decent enough, but is there a general feeling that Labor has a path back to real strength? https://apnews.com/article/israel-tel-aviv-elections-benjamin-netanyahu-5a3aa6c9a9e3241c394da34b1026dad0
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Feb 3, 2021 00:10
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she'd still rather form a coalition involving naftali bennett than the joint list
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Feb 3, 2021 00:21
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'Labour' and 'Strength' are mutually exclusive terms. The only Labour leader in my lifetime that I could respect got assassinated.
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Feb 3, 2021 02:50
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Wasn't the Labour strength of the past heavily dependent on Labour's enthusiasm for conquering more Palestinian land and ethnically cleansing the inhabitants, and once they went "mkay that's probably as much as we can get away with, let's quit while we're ahead" they immediately lost support to the real psychos who could never be satisfied. I'm not like some kind of Israeli politics knower, but I don't see how Labour can come back unless they get on board with expansion and conquest again, it's what the people want. Wasn't this Blue and White party basically the same as Likud except promising to be somewhat less openly corrupt than Bibi (and then immediately abandoning that promise by supporting him for PM again lol)
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Feb 3, 2021 18:58
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VitalSigns posted:Wasn't the Labour strength of the past heavily dependent on Labour's enthusiasm for conquering more Palestinian land and ethnically cleansing the inhabitants, and once they went "mkay that's probably as much as we can get away with, let's quit while we're ahead" they immediately lost support to the real psychos who could never be satisfied. Yes to your last paragraph about Blue and White. There's about 10 mediocre white dudes who are campaigning on "Likud but without the corruption" at this point, even if Yaalon dropped out iirc. The last time Labour were in government in Israel (again, iirc, I was quite young then) was when Rabin was PM and his platform was specifically "guys maybe let's do less expansion and try for peace?". Which was ironic coming from a former General who did a lot of conquering, but he still got elected on that platform. I don't know where that base has gone, but a lot of it is definitely splintered among the various new parties of the last few years. Has anyone got any info on the Israeli Democratic party? Some of their candidates actually look not poo poo (like Barak Cohen and Co.)
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Feb 3, 2021 19:51
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Sure there's some not poo poo centrist people around but the Overton Window moved far right throughout the past 25 years or so. I can still remember the optimism of that time and how it was dashed on the rocks of weak left governments at first and then just squeezed dry by Bibi and his cohorts. The U.S. War on Terror also had a part to play.
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Feb 3, 2021 21:02
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It’s depressing because Begin was killed by a right wing extremist and basically the country has lurched more and more right since then
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Feb 3, 2021 22:06
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Terrorism often works, unfortunately
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Feb 3, 2021 22:13
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fascism is the basic standard of politics now, and israel is to the right of that. grats! good luck with the inevitable race war built up by your... uhhh, zionists? i dunno what to call the israeli nazis
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Feb 3, 2021 22:27
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FlamingLiberal posted:It’s depressing because Begin was killed by a right wing extremist and basically the country has lurched more and more right since then Going back a bit, Israel was ruled by Labor governments between 1948 and until 1977 (which you'll note is mostly before any major territorial conquest). The next and last time Labor held power was in the 1990's (1992-1996, 1999-2001), with all three PM's being focused on the peace process. lollontee posted:fascism is the basic standard of politics now, and israel is to the right of that. grats! good luck with the inevitable race war built up by your... uhhh, zionists? i dunno what to call the israeli nazis
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Feb 3, 2021 22:30
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Xander77 posted:Palestinian uprisings are suppressed as a matter of routine. sure mate, and thats gonna keep happening without a hitch and will lead to absolutely no problems as the american empire collapses. the israeli army is just gonna maintain its dominant position for decades to come, and militarily there is going to be nothing the palestinians are going to be able to do to hurt the israeli people, or...?
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Feb 3, 2021 22:35
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Are you also concerned about the Native Americans rising up against the US government? Do you think the people in the death camps were going to rise up against the German government during the Holocaust? The Palestinians are so oppressed, so subjugated, I'm not sure what type of fighting back you're talking about, but it's along those same lines. I wish it wasn't so, but it is.
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Feb 3, 2021 22:40
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I think in the absence of American support in Israel its reasonable to think that the neighboring states would have much more latitude/success in assisting Palestine against Israel.
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Feb 3, 2021 22:47
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Xander77 posted:Begin was a right-wing terrorist who died of natural causes (and\or heartbreak after invading Lebanon didn't turn out well). Rabin was Israel's prime minster from 1974 and until 1977, and from 1992 until his assassination in 1995.
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Feb 3, 2021 22:47
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Internet Explorer posted:Are you also concerned about the Native Americans rising up against the US government? Do you think the people in the death camps were going to rise up against the German government during the Holocaust? The Palestinians are so oppressed, so subjugated, I'm not sure what type of fighting back you're talking about, but it's along those same lines. I wish it wasn't so, but it is. israel is neither the US nor Germany. you have neither the resources nor the brutality required for the level of oppresssion and genocide to discount the palestinians. there will be war, and unless the israeli people find a way to avoid it in peace, your nation will fall and there will be slaughter your nazis built this scenario up for the past 50 years, from the beginning as a way of constructing their identity as a colonialist regime, but they never had the resources to truly take it into a stable state of domination over your neighbours. and for their crimes of genocide, their children will be the ones to pay as the empire collapses around them
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Feb 3, 2021 22:47
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lollontee posted:israel is neither the US nor Germany. you have neither the resources nor the brutality required for the level of oppresssion and genocide to discount the palestinians. there will be war, and unless the israeli people find a way to avoid it in peace, your nation will fall and there will be slaughter "Your nation?" What do you mean by that?
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Feb 3, 2021 22:49
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Internet Explorer posted:"Your nation?" idk, i assumed you were israeli??
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Feb 3, 2021 22:55
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That's a weird loving assumption. I'm not. I'm not Israeli. And while I generally agree with your point in regards to Israel being hyper right-wing, maybe chill on calling other posters "israeli nazis" with absolutely nothing to back it up. I'm not a mod of this forum, but that's a pretty lovely thing to do.
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Feb 3, 2021 23:04
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I'm kind of failing to see how Israel, a country that does democracy so well that they have elections every 8 months, is a fascist state but okay. As for the Labour party goes in Israel, at least until the late 90's (under Barak who was the last labour PM) they have always been a "land for peace" policy. I think it was in the 70's when Likud took over that that whole idea was abandoned pretty much until the 90's under Rabin. And yes it is ironic in a sick and twisted way that the man who killed Rabin (and was declared a hero by the far right for doing so) has pretty much the same policy ideals as the party that has been in power for the last few years (or at least the same ideals as the parties in the coalition)
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Feb 3, 2021 23:05
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Internet Explorer posted:calling other posters "israeli nazis" with absolutely nothing to back it up ive... never done that. i havent done that for at least 2 years. please read my post again?
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Feb 3, 2021 23:10
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i am calling israel a literal fascist state tho
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Feb 3, 2021 23:11
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Madkal posted:I'm kind of failing to see how Israel, a country that does democracy so well that they have elections every 8 months, is a fascist state but okay. because it is governed by a racial autocracy composed of various right-wing factions all united under the idea that the palestinians are subhuman scum and and israelis are a different race of superior beings. whether they do elections and fail to elect a bibi in place of the bibi, or not is irrelevant. israeli citizenship is constitutionally defined on racial grounds. palestinians are treated at a class of serfs without civil rights or protection from the state, enforced by military oppression, murder, and the forever war. this is fascism.
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Feb 3, 2021 23:23
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lollontee posted:israeli citizenship is constitutionally defined on racial grounds. Israeli doesn't even have a constitution.
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Feb 4, 2021 00:17
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What are you going to do? Invade a nuclear power?
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Feb 4, 2021 00:21
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Israeli doesn't even have a constitution. i guess that would make it an occupying army then
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Feb 4, 2021 00:28
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lollontee posted:israel is neither the US nor Germany. you have neither the resources nor the brutality required for the level of oppresssion and genocide to discount the palestinians. there will be war, and unless the israeli people find a way to avoid it in peace, your nation will fall and there will be slaughter Palestine is not in any way an existential threat to Israel, nor will it be in the future. Israel not only has surpassing military power (modern planes, artillery, tanks, etc) vs piss rockets but it also controls the economy of The OPT and can stop it developing military power in the future. The territories are also too small and surveillance for any symmetric guerrilla movement to pose any true threat. Madkal posted:I'm kind of failing to see how Israel, a country that does democracy so well that they have elections every 8 months, is a fascist state but okay. Fascism is hard to define, but some definitions at least aren’t antithetical to democracy and even in those where a single state party is a key element, I don’t think saying that Israel only hits 9 out of 10 markers of a fascist nations means it isn’t fascist.
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Feb 4, 2021 00:32
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palestine is of no threat to israel, but israel is surrounded by hostile forces that absolutely are a threat, american backing or not. when i look at israel, all i can wonder is not why the palestinians don't overthrow their oppressors, because they can't, but why nobody is helping them. don't say "nobody can help palestine materially or israel will get america to declare them terrorists!" because i don't think places like iran and russia care about being called terrorists at this point and saudi arabia is rich enough to never have to give a poo poo
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Feb 4, 2021 00:35
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perepelki posted:palestine is of no threat to israel, but israel is surrounded by hostile forces that absolutely are a threat, american backing or not. when i look at israel, all i can wonder is not why the palestinians don't overthrow their oppressors, because they can't, but why nobody is helping them. don't say "nobody can help palestine materially or israel will get america to declare them terrorists!" because i don't think places like iran and russia care about being called terrorists at this point and saudi arabia is rich enough to never have to give a poo poo yeah i feel like palestine could be a state tomorrow if al sisi blocked the suez canal, but of course israel has done everything they can the last twenty years to buy off or scare off everyone around them. the gulf stuff this last year was pretty shocking
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Feb 4, 2021 00:38
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I think the issue with the fascist part is that it is conflating domestic and foreign into one thing. For instance, there is a free press inside Israel, and while there is absolutely racism in theory all Israeli citizens have rights though the rights granted are really backwards but there is no ban on a political party trying to achieve better rights for citizens (it's just that those parties very rarely get enough votes to make a difference).
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Feb 4, 2021 00:38
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instead of wringing their hands over israel using up its finite vaccines to vaccinate its own citizens instead of those in gaza, a different nation, why hasn't some country sympathetic to the palestinians and allotted more vaccines than israel (because of a higher population) stepped in and started distributing them? vaccinating the palestinians is in the whole world's best interests. they have all these friends all over the world, who are happy to drown social media in "gently caress israel! fascist state! from the river to the sea my rear end will be free lmao" but there's never any movement toward actually going into gaza and helping the victims out
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Feb 4, 2021 00:39
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but most of palestine's most fervent internet supporters are american and they've never given a hundred bucks combined in their whole life to indigenous causes on their own land, so what would i know
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Feb 4, 2021 00:40
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perepelki posted:when i look at israel, all i can wonder is not why the palestinians don't overthrow their oppressors, because they can't, but why nobody is helping them. don't say "nobody can help palestine materially or israel will get america to declare them terrorists!" because i don't think places like iran and russia care about being called terrorists at this point and saudi arabia is rich enough to never have to give a poo poo Israel's neighbors don't really care about the Palestinians that much. I mean, there's a bunch of public sympathy, and the Palestinian cause can be used as a handy rhetorical device, but it's pretty low down on their lists of priorities.
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Feb 4, 2021 00:42
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perepelki posted:palestine is of no threat to israel, but israel is surrounded by hostile forces that absolutely are a threat, american backing or not. when i look at israel, all i can wonder is not why the palestinians don't overthrow their oppressors, because they can't, but why nobody is helping them because they are being paid not to, and the source of those payments is starting to actually fall apart. team overhead smash posted:Palestine is not in any way an existential threat to Israel, nor will it be in the future. Israel not only has surpassing military power (modern planes, artillery, tanks, etc) vs piss rockets but it also controls the economy of The OPT and can stop it developing military power in the future. The territories are also too small and surveillance for any symmetric guerrilla movement to pose any true threat. "modern" planes and tanks are going to become rapidly obsolete within the next decade due to mass-production of military drones and loitering munitions (previously known as missiles). plenty of ways for the palestinians to acquire the military power to threaten israel, imho all it would take is for their neighbours to stop sucking american dick for a couple of years and weapons would be flowing into gaza through their territories. as for guerrilla war... lol theres been a war for the past couple of decades iirc? thats not going to go anywhere, and if you think its going to just go poof in the face of more brutal suppression, i dont think you quite understand how uprisings work. either israel murders literally millions to put down the palestinian threat for good, or this war is going to keep going, and israel isnt going to be growing any stronger in the future, what with their entire military being based on american aid.
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Feb 4, 2021 00:47
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It is horrific how the Palestinians have been hosed over by Israel, and hosed over by neighbouring countries as well (look at the way Jordan dealt with Palestinians fleeing to Jordan for an example). And while I agree that a nation should vaccinate it's own people first Israel should absolutely be helping out the Palestinians with vaccination. Israel already puts up blocks and runs interference for medical supplies in the Palestinian areas and when it comes to a freaking pandemic next door to you, you are risking your own population and your neighbour's population as well. Beyond that, it would just be the moral thing to do, seeing as Israel is responsible for the lovely situation in the occupied territories anyway.
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Feb 4, 2021 00:49
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perepelki posted:instead of wringing their hands over israel using up its finite vaccines to vaccinate its own citizens instead of those in gaza, a different nation, why hasn't some country sympathetic to the palestinians and allotted more vaccines than israel (because of a higher population) stepped in and started distributing them? vaccinating the palestinians is in the whole world's best interests. they have all these friends all over the world, who are happy to drown social media in "gently caress israel! fascist state! from the river to the sea my rear end will be free lmao" but there's never any movement toward actually going into gaza and helping the victims out incredible take
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Feb 4, 2021 00:49
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perepelki posted:instead of wringing their hands over israel using up its finite vaccines to vaccinate its own citizens instead of those in gaza, a different nation, why hasn't some country sympathetic to the palestinians and allotted more vaccines than israel (because of a higher population) stepped in and started distributing them? vaccinating the palestinians is in the whole world's best interests. they have all these friends all over the world, who are happy to drown social media in "gently caress israel! fascist state! from the river to the sea my rear end will be free lmao" but there's never any movement toward actually going into gaza and helping the victims out loving hell how stupid are you. amazing
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Feb 4, 2021 00:50
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yeah actually im going to move to gaza tomorrow to "help out"
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Feb 4, 2021 00:50
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