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"The Lego Batman Movie" was released the year after "Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice." The kids have a PG-rated Batman movie. Apparently they're working on a sequel?
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Feb 4, 2021 04:24
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CelticPredator posted:They can watch the older movies, they ain’t gonna care. And when they get older they can watch the r rated ones. Don't make any more good things for kids, got it.
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Feb 4, 2021 04:25
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Yeah exactly. Let the KIDS see what they want!
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Feb 4, 2021 04:26
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Gaz-L posted:There's actually a few subtle changes to make Rorschach's position seem more sympathetic in the film, such as having Niteowl be present for his death and visibly mourning it. Snyder is definitely more sympathetic to him than Moore and Gibbons are. I somewhat agree that Snyder is a bit more sympathetic towards Rorshach than Moore and Gibbons are, but I don't believe Moore and Gibbons are wholly unsympathetic towards him either. I also don't think there's any problem with being sympathetic towards Rorshach. He's a tragic character, and Ozymandias is a far, far worse person in both versions of the story. My point is also that they can't criticize the movies, but that this criticism is that it's not like the other, countless number of media starring these characters. If that's the case, then go enjoy that other media, both interpretations are able to exist, and are worthy of exploration. I just don't find "Why isn't it like Batman: TAS" compelling as criticism.
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Feb 4, 2021 04:28
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CelticPredator posted:Yeah exactly. Nevermind that the more time passes. the more older stuff becomes less accessible to them. Most kids are going to want to see something newer, and more inclined that way from the get go. Not to mention that R-rated Batman is gonna have toys that are gonna be sold right alongside other kids' toys, marketed TO kids, so it's not unreasonable to suggest that the film-makers want those kids' families' business, so marketing this poo poo to them comes off as tone deaf at best and irresponsible at worst.
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Feb 4, 2021 04:31
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Roth posted:I somewhat agree that Snyder is a bit more sympathetic towards Rorshach than Moore and Gibbons are, but I don't believe Moore and Gibbons are wholly unsympathetic towards him either. Criticising an adaptation for doing a poor job reflecting the source material is absolutely valid criticism and claiming it isn't is definitely trying to shut it down. If this was, say, a Pride & Prejudice film and Mr Darcy was shown to be a serial killer in the first act AND the director was touting this as some kind of definitive portrayal, it's 100% valid to go "uh, hold up, that's making the character fundamentally different to the text, and in kind of a hosed up way that hurts the tone of the story".
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Feb 4, 2021 04:34
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BrianWilly posted:Really, it always seems like the exact specific things people don't like about Snyder end up being "the point" somehow, thereby rendering those things above reproach through some tenth dimensional logic.
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Feb 4, 2021 04:35
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Roth posted:Within the narrative of just BvS he refuses to brand Lex Luthor, which was the main thing that got Superman going after him in the first place. There's also a whole other movie about to come out in a month that picks up where the story left off. The movie did a VERY poor job of explaining why the brands are bad* and the issue of violence by both Batman and the threat of Superman is given much more dramatic and overt focus, and given how well he tried over-correcting/focusing on the loudest criticism of MoS in BVS, I really doubt he would have effectively continued that story. * - I know WHY they're bad, but the whole thing is given very little real estate in the movie and not effectively communicated, in my opinion.
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Feb 4, 2021 04:35
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I think it's really gross that people in here are so selfish that they'd trade the ability for children to see their favorite character for a couple of F-bombs and some lovely gore. gently caress that noise.
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Feb 4, 2021 04:36
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If this were the 70s and we didn't have all the nice features of home video I'd maybe agree that it would suck that they keep making r-rated Batman movies that aren't for kids, but it's 2021. You can turn on HBO Max and watch any episode of Batman: The Animated Series, The Batman, Batman Beyond, Teen Titans, Justice League, Batman: Brave and the Bold, Beware the Batman, Young Justice, Green Lantern, the Nolan trilogy, the Burton/Schumacher Batman, Lynda Carter Wonder Woman, and Donner Superman. Leaving just DC, on HBO Max you can also watch Doctor Who, old kaiju movies, a number of Ghibli movies, Looney Tunes, a huge backlog of Cartoon Network shows, Lord of the Rings, and The Shining. I don't think it's a tragedy that there's a couple of R rated Batman movies.
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Feb 4, 2021 04:37
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Arist posted:I think it's really gross that people in here are so selfish that they'd trade the ability for children to see their favorite character for a couple of F-bombs and some lovely gore. gently caress that noise. Lmao. Also like even if the Batman isn’t rated R that poo poo ain’t gonna be for kids anyway.
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Feb 4, 2021 04:38
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Roth posted:If this were the 70s and we didn't have all the nice features of home video I'd maybe agree that it would suck that they keep making r-rated Batman movies that aren't for kids, but it's 2021. You can turn on HBO Max and watch any episode of Batman: The Animated Series, The Batman, Batman Beyond, Teen Titans, Justice League, Batman: Brave and the Bold, Beware the Batman, Young Justice, Green Lantern, the Nolan trilogy, the Burton/Schumacher Batman, Lynda Carter Wonder Woman, and Donner Superman. The question is, which of those are kids more likely to ask for? The decades old cartoon, or the new thing being advertised loudly and often on television, with toys and video game tie ins?
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Feb 4, 2021 04:39
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Nodosaur posted:But nothing about his behavior changes at all beyond his desire to kill Superman. From a strictly narrative standpoint, that speech comes off as hollow because he has not demonstrated an alternative. BvS's Batman starts out as basically a super cop. His (path toward) redemption isn't giving up on violence so much as directing that violence away from the poor and toward the ultra rich and their flunkies. He gives up being a cop to pursue a revolutionary justice. Building from that, the question of "if Batman is becoming good then why did he kill all those black ops paramilitia to rescue a civilian" seems completely nonsensical to me. It's like asking if it's appropriate for Captain America to fight Nazis. "Should Captain America really kill Nazis?" Yes. Arist posted:I think it's really gross that people in here are so selfish that they'd trade the ability for children to see their favorite character for a couple of F-bombs and some lovely gore. gently caress that noise. When I was a 5-y-o my favorite film was the very R rated Aliens. The kids are going to be OK.
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Feb 4, 2021 04:39
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Actually, let's run the numbers on this. Since BvS, the following films based on Batman characters have been released, cross-referenced with their ratings:
I'm pretty sure that's not even all of them. During this time, the TV series "Justice League Action" (TV-Y7) also ran.
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Feb 4, 2021 04:39
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Roth posted:I also don't think there's any problem with being sympathetic towards Rorshach. He's a tragic character, and Ozymandias is a far, far worse person in both versions of the story. The hell? Rorschach's loving Qanon thirty years too soon.
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Feb 4, 2021 04:40
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Gaz-L posted:This is kind of the 'Superman is boring' argument just extrapolated out and thought out a bit more. No-one is saying the world these characters exist in needs to be perfect or free of corruption or conflict, but Snyder's take basically has everything INCLUDING the symbol of hope be tainted by that same corruption which makes the idea of them being this symbol ring hollow to many. It's why so many people point out the Pa Kent 'let them die' scene as a massive misstep because it fundamentally takes the heart of Superman away from his humanity. hope's what you have in the dark, not in the light tbh I don't really understand what you're saying here. Superman struggles with doing good in an amoral world, but finds a way through regardless, and other people become more ethical humans because of it. that's very hopeful and idealistic - consider the alternatives! this, of course, is very different from what Fangz (and you?) were saying: that depiction is endorsement, that Snyder believes extrajudicial murder is desirable and necessary
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Feb 4, 2021 04:41
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Schwarzwald posted:BvS's Batman starts out as basically a super cop. His (path toward) redemption isn't giving up on violence so much as directing that violence away from the poor and toward the ultra rich and their flunkies. He gives up being a cop to pursue a revolutionary justice. He was taking out and stopping human traffickers before he started gunning for Superman.
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Feb 4, 2021 04:41
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Arist posted:After BvS Ultimate Edition and the Snyder Cut, an R rating for The Batman as well would kinda suck imo. I just don't think pretty much all the modern live-action Batman should be R. I'm just never gonna get behind taking this character who is fundamentally for children and deciding he's actually gritty and hardcore and only for adults. I'm excited for the Reeves version but locking out children from that version too would be a bummer.
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Feb 4, 2021 04:41
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Lt. Danger posted:hope's what you have in the dark, not in the light Superman isn't even a character in Snyder's film and definitely doesn't have a comprehensible ideology, much less one different enough from Batman's to inspire change, so this makes zero sense.
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Feb 4, 2021 04:43
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when I was a kid I never wanted to see films with any swears in them, or dudes getting blown up or killed. no way buddy. I also never wanted to watch anything less than a year old, and I would certainly never watch something more than once, let alone every day for a week straight
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Feb 4, 2021 04:44
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Gaz-L posted:Criticising an adaptation for doing a poor job reflecting the source material is absolutely valid criticism and claiming it isn't is definitely trying to shut it down. If this was, say, a Pride & Prejudice film and Mr Darcy was shown to be a serial killer in the first act AND the director was touting this as some kind of definitive portrayal, it's 100% valid to go "uh, hold up, that's making the character fundamentally different to the text, and in kind of a hosed up way that hurts the tone of the story". I guess this is just where we differ because I think criticism of an adaptation shouldn't be based on pointing out that it's different from the source material. I don't think people are wrong to not like the adaptation that Snyder makes, but that I don't find it compelling on its own when it seems to consist of "It's not what I want." Particularly with characters like DC Superheroes who have had eight decades worth of comics and adaptations to explore. As I said, you're perfectly fine to not like it for any reason, no matter how petty, but I also don't see why it should be taken as proof that the movie itself is wrong beyond somebody's very subjective preference. As I said, there's no shortage of these characters in any number of scenarios and interpretations, so why does it matter that the Snyder DC have their own spin on the take, even if you don't agree with that take?
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Feb 4, 2021 04:47
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CelticPredator posted:It’s gonna be crazy when Matt Reeves Batman comes out. I hope it’s rated R.
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Feb 4, 2021 04:47
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Why is this thread so loving snide nowadays?
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Feb 4, 2021 04:47
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Arist posted:Superman isn't even a character in Snyder's film and definitely doesn't have a comprehensible ideology, much less one different enough from Batman's to inspire change, so this makes zero sense. in Zack Snyder's Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, Batman and Superman mooch around an abandoned warehouse for the best part of 2 hours, making awkward small talk and avoiding eye contact until one of them finally says "wanna fight?"
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Feb 4, 2021 04:47
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Lt. Danger posted:when I was a kid I never wanted to see films with any swears in them, or dudes getting blown up or killed. no way buddy. I also never wanted to watch anything less than a year old, and I would certainly never watch something more than once, let alone every day for a week Your anecdotal experience aside, this wasn't the point I was making. The point was that kids are more likely to take an interest in newer things. And yes, I know kids like to see that kind of stuff. But R-Rated material shouldn't be marketed to them, even though it is.
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Feb 4, 2021 04:47
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Arist posted:live-action I don't think that's the sort of thing kids are too particular about! If a kid wants to see Batman, a recent Batman video product appropriate for practically any level of parental censoriousness is available for them. And the window for what constitutes "recent" is widening all the time with streaming service back catalogs.
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Feb 4, 2021 04:48
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Lt. Danger posted:in Zack Snyder's Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, Batman and Superman mooch around an abandoned warehouse for the best part of 2 hours, making awkward small talk and avoiding eye contact until one of them finally says "wanna fight?" This would be less boring than the movie I saw.
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Feb 4, 2021 04:48
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FilthyImp posted:Finally, a chance to get the Batcock scene from the comics translated to film! No this will make it NC-17!!!!
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Feb 4, 2021 04:50
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Lt. Danger posted:hope's what you have in the dark, not in the light I don't see anything all that admirable in the Superman we see on screen. He's a remote, judgemental hypocrite. That's the problem. Roth posted:I guess this is just where we differ because I think criticism of an adaptation shouldn't be based on pointing out that it's different from the source material. I don't think people are wrong to not like the adaptation that Snyder makes, but that I don't find it compelling on its own when it seems to consist of "It's not what I want." Particularly with characters like DC Superheroes who have had eight decades worth of comics and adaptations to explore. Gaz-L fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Feb 4, 2021 |
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Feb 4, 2021 04:50
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howe_sam posted:The hell? Rorschach's loving Qanon thirty years too soon. Rorschach's one of the few characters in the comic and film to make a principled stand against genocide, for which he gives his life. Arist posted:Superman isn't even a character in Snyder's film and definitely doesn't have a comprehensible ideology, much less one different enough from Batman's to inspire change, so this makes zero sense. It's not the film's fault when someone doesn't engage with it in good faith.
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Feb 4, 2021 04:50
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Schwarzwald posted:It's not the film's fault when someone doesn't engage with it in good faith. Please, elaborate. What are his fundamental wants and needs? Does he have an arc?
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Feb 4, 2021 04:52
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Like, this is basic marketing one-o-one. Why do you think most kids franchises refresh themselves every 3 to five years? Because they prefer new poo poo, and also, to hook the NEW batch of kids to replace the ones that have aged out of the demographic. Pokemon does this. Transformers does this. DC and Marvel both do this. Yes, they can make a decent amount off of legacy content, but there's always gonna be a need for something new to come along. And we're living in a time period where movies are the most visible and accessible form of entertainment regarding superheroes. Asking "would kids want to see this?" and "SHOULD kids get to see this?" are absolutely relevant questions to ask.
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Feb 4, 2021 04:53
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Gaz-L posted:I don't see anything all that admirable in the Superman we see on screen. He's a remote, judgemental hypocrite. That's the problem. can you describe some things Superman does in Man of Steel for me please
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Feb 4, 2021 04:54
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howe_sam posted:The hell? Rorschach's loving Qanon thirty years too soon. He's a mentally ill homeless man whose lifetime of violence is but a drop in the bucket compared to the mass murder Ozymandias accomplishes in an instant. I am aware you're not supposed to idolize him, but the character has a tragic backstory and refuses to be complicit in said mass murder. If you weren't supposed to find him sympathetic, then I guess I'll just say that Alan Moore accidentally wrote a more compelling character than he meant to. Nodosaur posted:The question is, which of those are kids more likely to ask for? The decades old cartoon, or the new thing being advertised loudly and often on television, with toys and video game tie ins? I don't know. If I was a parent and very concerned about this, I would simply not let my child have unmonitored access to HBO Max. I'm not, however, and will simply be the cool aunt that lets the kids have a sip of wine and watch Aqua Teen Hunger Force.
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Feb 4, 2021 04:54
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Lt. Danger posted:can you describe some things Superman does in Man of Steel for me please Destroys half of Metropolis. Kills a dude. Pettily wrecks a douchebag's truck. Watches his dad die and does nothing.
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Feb 4, 2021 04:55
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Lt. Danger posted:can you describe some things Superman does in Man of Steel for me please You know there's a difference between watching a movie and reading the Wikipedia summary, right? Sometimes, the way a movie frames something is more important than what happened in it.
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Feb 4, 2021 04:55
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The Transformers movies are way more gross and hosed for for kids than any Snyderfilm. The the racism 2 is insane and the homophobia in 3 is foul.
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Feb 4, 2021 04:56
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CelticPredator posted:The Transformers movies are way more gross and hosed for for kids than any Snyderfilm. What does this have to do with anything? You're just deflecting.
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Feb 4, 2021 04:56
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Arist posted:You know there's a difference between watching a movie and reading the Wikipedia summary, right? Sometimes, the way a movie frames something is more important than what happened in it. How you view that framing is what you get out of it though. Others see completely differently.
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Feb 4, 2021 04:57
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Arist posted:What does this have to do with anything? You're just deflecting. Someone brought up transformers
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Feb 4, 2021 04:58
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