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Breakfast All Day posted:twitter down today as millions of fbpe users simultaneously changed their icons to union jacks i always thought this doesn’t really appeal to them either, don’t the kind of middle class people who end up as sir keith fans find the flag waving type of british nationalism incredibly gauche?
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Feb 3, 2021 17:24
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pdog posted:i always thought this doesn’t really appeal to them either, don’t the kind of middle class people who end up as sir keith fans find the flag waving type of british nationalism incredibly gauche? yeah flag loving just appeals to people who would never vote labour anyway, and turns off the people who actually might vote labour, ie left wingers and liberals
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Feb 3, 2021 19:26
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so basically it's perfect for the labour of the 2020s
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Feb 3, 2021 22:09
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Who cares about votes it's all about winning back the big donors that corbyn scared off.
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Feb 3, 2021 22:17
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https://twitter.com/adamclarkitv/status/1357002525795352576
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Feb 3, 2021 22:27
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Samphire Ho is a totally underrated wuxia director
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Feb 3, 2021 22:35
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Brexit
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Feb 3, 2021 23:02
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Why would Jeremy Corbyn do this?
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Feb 3, 2021 23:08
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cliff peels for eels
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Feb 3, 2021 23:10
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Feb 3, 2021 23:44
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dinosaurs are back baby
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Feb 3, 2021 23:44
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gonadic io posted:Who cares about votes it's all about winning back the big donors that corbyn scared off. i don't think they are managing that, either.
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Feb 3, 2021 23:45
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brexit: even the collapse is underwhelming
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Feb 3, 2021 23:52
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I'm currently reading "The City: London and the Global Power of Finance" by Tony Norfield and a theme I'm starting to get is that the UK was always a reluctant entrant/member of the European Union project (and its predecessors like the EEC) because A. the UK already had its own economic bloc in the form of its dominions and former colonies, and B. the UK was always much closer to the US than the rest of Europe by necessity - the examples cited include needing US backing to overthrow Mossadegh in Iran, the lack of US backing in the Suez Crisis leading to the UK failing to resolve it in its favor, the UK being dependent on the US for its Polaris missiles, and the incestuous relationship between the NSA and GCHQ where they use each other's data to get around legal restrictions on domestic spying I guess my question is, if I take it on its face that the UK was never all that enthusiastic about being part of the EU in the first place (and apparently this is why the various UK governments from Major onwards wanted to negotiate for a lot of the special rules and exemptions that the UK had, esp. with regards to maintaining a separate currency), how long has "the UK should leave the EU" been a political position prior to, say, 2010 and the Cameron government? gradenko_2000 has issued a correction as of 11:16 on Feb 4, 2021 |
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Feb 4, 2021 11:03
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gradenko_2000 posted:I'm currently reading "The City: London and the Global Power of Finance" by Tony Norfield and a theme I'm starting to get is that the UK was always a reluctant entrant/member of the European Union project (and its predecessors like the EEC) because
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Feb 4, 2021 11:18
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Labour had a large pro-EEC withdrawal contingent in the 70s (including Tony Benn) and it was part of the party manifesto under Michael Foot.
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Feb 4, 2021 11:33
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The early history of the EEC/EU was all about economic deregulation and unlocking cheap labor pools to compete better with the US. It was initially a right wing initiative. At some point (Thatcher) the right wing in the UK became more about aligning with the US and militarism and finding reasons to make people more scared of the world, and then the EU naturally became the enemy because they were part of the scary outside world and also communists??!
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Feb 4, 2021 11:53
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Pryor on Fire posted:The early history of the EEC/EU was all about economic deregulation and unlocking cheap labor pools to compete better with the US. It was initially a right wing initiative. This is the thing - the EEC (as it was) was a decidedly capitalist/free trade/unchain your economy sort of venture. It was the Conservative Party that was continually trying to get into it throughout the 1960s (being blocked several times by de Gaulle who feared that it would allow too much American influence due to our tight ties with the US already and saw - preciently - that our national vision of Europe, the European project and our place in the world was very different to the rest of the continent) and the Labour Party which was the most sceptical, although both parties broadly supported EEC entry as the solution to our economic woes and a way of gaining a 'fresh start' for the UK in the post-imperial world. It was those sceptical elements in the Labour Party which promted Harold Wilson to offer a confirmatory referendum on EEC membership, a few years after Edward Heath (Conservative) actually took us in. In the 1980s the left-wing anti-capitalist left of the Labour Party gained prominence and made withdrawing from the EEC a formal party policy which appeared in several general election manifestos in a row. Meanwhile the Conservatives under Margaret Thatcher were generally pro-Europe from a pro-business, trying-to-copy-the-West-German-economic-miracle way as well as seeing the  national power value in being the bridge between the US and Europe politically, culturally, economically and militarily. There had always been anti-EEC voices in the Conservatives, who disliked it from a national prestige/sovereignty/why can't we go back to exploiting India for the trade benefits/we didn't fight the war to cooperate with the Germans perspective, but they were a fringe that was largely excluded from actual power. When the Maastricht Treaty was signed in 1992 which created the EU, that signalled the shift from an economic trade organisation to a more political union. The Conservative Party's shift right-wards throughout the 1980s meant that the Eurosceptic/phobic voices within it had gained prominence and the weakening of Margaret Thatcher's leadership left the party in a civil war which mostly split along the pro-business, pro-Europe neoliberal wing and the culturally conservative, nationalist anti-Europe wing. John Major - basically a Thatcherite - won the leadership but was faced with continual rebellions within his party over Europe and all the talking points now familiar to Brexit. Resignations and rebellions meant that by 1997 Major had no reliable parliamentary majority despite a 20-seat electoral majority. Meanwhile Labour was reforming and moving to the centre under Blair, which involved ditching all the anti-capitalist rhetoric of before going all-in on modernising the UK with the other social democratic countries of northern Europe as the model. We were going to become 'a modern European country' culturally, economically and politically. Being pro-EU was a big part of that, as was encouraging maximum immigration from the new eastern members of the EU (immigration is good because it shows how open and tolerant and Eurocentric we are now...and Polish people make for a great workforce that can be exploited cheaply which is good for the bottom line of Labour's major corporate donors...) So for the 2000s the divide had shifted and it was now a case of the pro-European Labour Party and the Eurosceptic Conservatives. Cameron was able to keep a lid on the divisions within the party enough to scrape into No.10 in 2010, but by then the failure of New Labour's domestic programme (which left large swathes of Britain utterly disconnected from and disaffected with the status quo), the fallout from the Financial Crisis and 20+ years of xenophobic fash-adjacent fearmongering about immigrants and Brussels and Their Bendy Bananas - a journalistic genre founded and perfected by one Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson) led to the rise of the UK Independence Party* which began threatening the Tory vote. Cameron promised a referendum on EU membership during the 2015 election, unexpectedly found himself having to deliver on it, did a poo poo job of putting the case for Remain and here we are! * UKIP actually started as a left-wing party trying to keep alive the Labour-aligned anti-EU agenda as it was abandoned by the party during the reforms of the early 90s. Then loads of Conservative members, donors and activists joined it in the aftermath of the Maastricht fallout and turned it into the far-right crapfest that it became.
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Feb 4, 2021 13:36
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gradenko_2000 posted:I'm currently reading "The City: London and the Global Power of Finance" by Tony Norfield and a theme I'm starting to get is that the UK was always a reluctant entrant/member of the European Union project (and its predecessors like the EEC) because The day the Maastricht Treaty was signed is the quick answer. To go into it in a lot more detail, Euroscepticism has really always existed in this country for as long as a united European has been a mainstream proposal. Churchill has a quote which kind of sums up Britain's attitude (made while he was one of our leading pan-Europeanists): "We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked but not combined. We are interested and associated but not absorbed." In the early year post-war the only people in Britain who were really keen on joining any European bloc were the far-right, Oswald Mosley & friends, Europe a Nation being one of Mosley's ideas. Then you get the slow collapse of the Empire, the humiliation of the Suez Crisis & a shocking awakening to the reality that World War 2 had finished Britain as a major power (don't worry, that didn't last & now we're as deluded as ever about our place & importance in the world) & in the 60s there's an attempt to join the EC only for De Gaulle to tell us to gently caress off. There's also the forgotten episode in the 50s where Eden tried to set up a British lead EC equivalent that would have been a combination of the Commonwealth of Nations & European countries, and there were serious talks with France about joining. Which is funny but unimportant. Then there's the referendum in 1976 where the Liberals & Tories were for staying, the SNP, Plaid Cymru Communist Party & almost all the Northern Irish parties were for leaving (only exception was Alliance) & Labour was split. Most of Labour supported staying but a large minority were against, and not all on the Bennite left. But obviously that past, 67% wanting to stay, only 2 counting areas voted to leave (Western Isles & Shetland). The 80s are probably the high point of British support for the EC: With Kinnock as Labour Leader from '83 onwards they changed their hostility to Europe, & in '84 the Thatcher government managed to get a big reduction of UK money going to Brussels. But by '88 Thatcher started to turn, worried that a single market would lead to loss of that magical word, sovereignty. After Maastricht is when poo poo ramps up. A bunch of Tory right-wing MPs form the ERG & UKIP form in 1993. In 1994 James Goldsmith founded the Referendum Party. Labour was going to win the '97 election anyway but the huge split in the Tories hurt them a lot, & because it seemed they were obsessed about Europe above everything else & most people didn't really care all that much. In 1999 I'd say was a turning point: the European Parliamentary elections were held under a proportional representation system & that allowed UKIP to pick up 3 MEPs: Graham Booth from South West England, Jeffery Titford for East of England & Nigel Farage from South East England. And obviously Nige quickly became a press favourite.
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Feb 4, 2021 14:02
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgGmYeAm0jk
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Feb 5, 2021 22:37
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https://twitter.com/BigDirtyFry/status/1357795978846339079?s=09
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Feb 6, 2021 01:00
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https://twitter.com/timothycrisps/status/1357754260415541248
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Feb 6, 2021 13:33
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marktheando posted:yeah flag loving just appeals to people who would never vote labour anyway, and turns off the people who actually might vote labour, ie left wingers and liberals Yeah, there's this patronising, consultant-led view that the 'white working class' are a homogenous mass of flag-waving, poppy-brandishing, two-world-wars-and-one-world-cup nationalists and you appeal to them by flourishing this stuff at them, like a cat owner shakes a box of cat treats to get their cats obediently scampering into the kitchen. It misses the facts that: 1) Ordinary voters can spot phoneys a mile off and correctly identify this bullshit as the tokenism that it is. 2) These sort of views are held less by actual working people and much more often by elderly middle-class home owners who inevitably vote Tory anyway.
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Feb 6, 2021 14:41
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 defending live-in maid-slaves, but wokely
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Feb 6, 2021 17:48
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Uhhhhhh I didn't know au-pairs get paid so little. How is that even legal given minimum wage etc?
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Feb 6, 2021 17:56
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Private Speech posted:Uhhhhhh I didn't know au-pairs get paid so little. Doing it for the exposure.
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Feb 6, 2021 19:44
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I'm the police, nurses and full-time parents who can all afford 24hr, live-in care for their children.
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Feb 6, 2021 21:11
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https://twitter.com/flying_rodent/status/1358038261759885315 lmao
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Feb 6, 2021 21:33
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Blackhawk posted:Doing it for the exposure. Bad choice of words: https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/au-pair-america-cultural-care_n_5f204d6ac5b69fd473126c61 (okay the article talks about ones in America but I find it hard to believe it'd be any different here)
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Feb 6, 2021 21:34
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Pistol_Pete posted:I'm the police, nurses and full-time parents who can all afford 24hr, live-in care for their children. When I hear "Au-Pair", I definitely think of nurses and police people, this is a totally normal
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Feb 6, 2021 21:43
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isn't starmer their guy? the gently caress?
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Feb 6, 2021 21:55
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Shear Modulus posted:isn't starmer their guy? the gently caress? He was just a stalking horse brought in to do the dirty work of driving out the corbynists and restarting the drift to the right, no one actually wants him there and no one will vote for him. As soon as his job is done they'll try and ditch him for Blair 2.0
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Feb 6, 2021 21:59
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I used to teach at a very expensive private school, and on of the things I learned about the wealthy is that they absolutely love to outsource raising their children to underpaid nannies and au pairs.
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Feb 6, 2021 22:02
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Shear Modulus posted:isn't starmer their guy? the gently caress? The Labour right still has not solved their fundamental problem that no one on this green earth would piss on them if they were on fire.
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Feb 6, 2021 22:07
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Anybody that likes the labour right already prefers either the libdems or the Tories depending on if they consider themselves a good person or not.
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Feb 6, 2021 22:17
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gonadic io posted:Anybody that likes the labour right already prefers either the libdems or the Tories depending on if they consider themselves a good person or not. another tragic legacy of jeremy corbin
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Feb 6, 2021 22:27
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oliwan posted:When I hear "Au-Pair", I definitely think of nurses and police people, this is a totally normal
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Feb 6, 2021 22:29
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oliwan posted:I used to teach at a very expensive private school, and on of the things I learned about the wealthy is that they absolutely love to outsource raising their children to underpaid nannies and au pairs. Childcare, and by connection teaching, are fundamentally viewed by many as unworthy, worthless, or nonproductive occupations. To the very wealthy, their time is "too valuable" to waste it on rearing even their own child; you can't network when you are spending days with your progeny. This attitude is more commonly seen in the animus that people openly display towards teachers and school systems.
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Feb 6, 2021 22:35
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the only au pair i knew was a friend of mine. both parents were software devs who worked from home, but they kept having kids and every single one was autistic. so they got an au pair instead of a BCBA therapist
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Feb 6, 2021 22:59
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i say swears online posted:software devs[...]kept having kids and every single one was autistic 
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Feb 6, 2021 23:36
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