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Magpie also made Cartel which is a PBTA game that should just be some kind of agnostic crime syndicate framework for you to build on and not just about Central American narcocartels written from an outsider perspective that has the kind of ad copy where it's "This is REAL poo poo!" with Spanish words peppered in "in italics" for emphasis/flavor. I saw someone reskin Cartel to be about playing Hutt cartels in Star Wars and ever since then I just thought "y'know that's a neat use for that system and better than its original intentions".
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Feb 3, 2021 21:23
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I always feel out of the loop industry wise to really keep up with people who are shitfuckers about this stuff. Is there a community maintained shitlist that I can just pop open before I go buy something and find out after I already paid money for it that the company/specific persons in the company that designed the game/etc. is someone to not buy from, or buy from with the knowledge that they're a horrible person?
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Feb 3, 2021 21:42
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I haven't found a dedicated list previously. My personal list is Raggi, Zak, anyone or anything from SIXMOREVODKA (League fans, they do Runeterra as well as RPGs), and... yeah, that's about it, nobody else that's especially lovely comes up in conversation regularly enough for me to think of them unprompted.
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Feb 3, 2021 21:51
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I was watching some Lindybeige videos and while they are interesting I guess he is also a monster as well so really I have no real idea what affiliations people have as a downstream consumer a lot of the time. Apparently a lot of Youtube pop historian / HEMA types also may fall into this category, but I honestly haven't the energy to touch the poop and sift through it since I'd rather be thinking about dumbass West Marches ideas or whatever it is bouncing around in my noggin at the moment.
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Feb 3, 2021 21:53
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aldantefax posted:I always feel out of the loop industry wise to really keep up with people who are shitfuckers about this stuff. Is there a community maintained shitlist that I can just pop open before I go buy something and find out after I already paid money for it that the company/specific persons in the company that designed the game/etc. is someone to not buy from, or buy from with the knowledge that they're a horrible person? There's no really good solution, but an enemies list is probably one of the worst. Ultimately it's too exhausting and impossible to be 100% super ethical without just disappearing into the woods, and while that's often an easy excuse to just stop caring, you have to let yourself breathe and allow that sometimes you're going to give some money to people you would rather not if you could perform a sin audit on every last thing you do. It's up to you to find your comfort zone, but if you really want to pursue a more ethical consumption just keep an ear out, and ask ahead of time if you feel compelled. This poo poo flares up often enough you may just figure it all out without asking. aldantefax posted:I was watching some Lindybeige videos and while they are interesting I guess he is also a monster as well so really I have no real idea what affiliations people have as a downstream consumer a lot of the time. Apparently a lot of Youtube pop historian / HEMA types also may fall into this category, but I honestly haven't the energy to touch the poop and sift through it since I'd rather be thinking about dumbass West Marches ideas or whatever it is bouncing around in my noggin at the moment. I vaguely recall hearing something unkind, but I never watched many of LB's videos or followed him. When I did first stumble on him, though, one of the first few I watched was him basically bragging about loving over his D&D group with something like "of course your crude iron weapons were of no use against the giant magical turtle you just spent the whole front half of the session hearing about and being hired by a village to fight, and now you're all dead. Think smarter with your next characters!"
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Feb 3, 2021 22:21
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FMguru posted:When people starting making noise about what a creep Zak S was, the main guy at Magpie wrote an essay saying the real monsters were Zak's critics who were engaged in a never-ending Two Minute Hate against him for saying mean things about him and that he was not going to put up with that. I vaguely recall him walking it back but like in a really bad, head up rear end way but that could have been one of the other multitudes of Zak's defenders.
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Feb 3, 2021 22:24
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Yeah, it is all somewhat exhausting and really for awhile I just completely disengaged from the hobby as a result, but now that I'm "back into it", so to speak. I got the sense that Lindybeige mostly tries to be enthusiastic for effect regarding whatever topic his video is about, whether it be about coinage or ladders or transport or whatnot. I don't know the video mentioned but I'm not surprised at such a story. That reminds me of a GM I used to play with when we were all kids and he was really into animals having crazy stats. Fighting his version of a crocodile was worse than fighting a dragon. Then again his dragons that he ran were also similarly crazy. Reptile family monsters in general just had amazing amounts of attacks, hit points, damage, and damage resistance because of their formidable hides. Put your head between your knees and kiss your rear end goodbye if you ran into a lion or something.
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Feb 3, 2021 22:31
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Dawgstar posted:I vaguely recall him walking it back but like in a really bad, head up rear end way but that could have been one of the other multitudes of Zak's defenders. There is also a follow-up article that he wrote after the first one got so much blowback, and it's somehow even more annoying: https://www.magpiegames.com/2016/07/31/two-minutes-hate-faq/
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Feb 3, 2021 22:35
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As well, a lot of the shittiest people involved in the Tabletop world tend to throw up some pretty big warning signs in their work and behavior. Much like the bright colours of the poisonous dart frogs of the Amazon warn potential predators of its poisonous nature, folks like Zak and Raggi threw up tons of red flags in their writing before they were formally exposed as lovely. Seriously, even if Raggi hadn't decided to make defending Zak his hill to die on he'd still be a self-righteous dweeb with stalker tendencies, a too edgy 4 u attitude and a tendency to spend half the wordcount of his modules rambling about how everyone was an idiot except for him.
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Feb 3, 2021 22:50
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aldantefax posted:That reminds me of a GM I used to play with when we were all kids and he was really into animals having crazy stats. Fighting his version of a crocodile was worse than fighting a dragon. Then again his dragons that he ran were also similarly crazy. Reptile family monsters in general just had amazing amounts of attacks, hit points, damage, and damage resistance because of their formidable hides. Put your head between your knees and kiss your rear end goodbye if you ran into a lion or something. Honestly I think that's pretty cool, I like the idea of a setting where wild animals like rhinos and elephants and stuff are actually really dangerous and tooling up to go kill one is a job of a whole party of high-level adventurers.
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Feb 3, 2021 22:53
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KingKalamari posted:As well, a lot of the shittiest people involved in the Tabletop world tend to throw up some pretty big warning signs in their work and behavior. Much like the bright colours of the poisonous dart frogs of the Amazon warn potential predators of its poisonous nature, folks like Zak and Raggi threw up tons of red flags in their writing before they were formally exposed as lovely. Not gonna lie here, I have no idea who "Raggi" is but I think I saw a shoutout to him from the HUBRIS DCC sourcebook, which, after flipping through it has like "the place where everybody turned into gibbering sex piles! wow spooky" and I guess that is the same kind of feel. I have long had thoughts about a co-op Monster Hunter type card game where you would essentially build your deck of moves and you'd have to play against a somewhat predictable monster deck. You take your weapon deck and items and then go do the Khezu fight or whatnot and you sort of have an idea of what the thing is capable of but it has some blind curveballs it can throw your way by shuffling "signature moves" into the monster deck with basic and enrage moves. I never thought super hard on it but I'm starting to see other games out there with more robust AI mechanics for monsters for the game to be a fully co-operative one.
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Feb 3, 2021 23:32
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That sounds a little like a card based RPG one of Zak's victims worked on before they were doxxed and harassed into quitting the industry and internet. Heavily inspired by monster hunter and megaman games with the base/original game being a sort of sci-fi ruined earth and one of the stretchgoals that was achieved was a viking/Ragnarok flavored reskin.
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Feb 3, 2021 23:47
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aldantefax posted:Not gonna lie here, I have no idea who "Raggi" is but I think I saw a shoutout to him from the HUBRIS DCC sourcebook, which, after flipping through it has like "the place where everybody turned into gibbering sex piles! wow spooky" and I guess that is the same kind of feel. James Raggi is the Legend of the Flame Princess guy.
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Feb 3, 2021 23:48
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there was also the goon-made Behemoth, as well as an actual Monster Hunter licensed game which is coming out
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Feb 3, 2021 23:48
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Coolness Averted posted:That sounds a little like a card based RPG one of Zak's victims worked on before they were doxxed and harassed into quitting the industry and internet. Heavily inspired by monster hunter and megaman games with the base/original game being a sort of sci-fi ruined earth and one of the stretchgoals that was achieved was a viking/Ragnarok flavored reskin. drat Dawgstar posted:James Raggi is the Legend of the Flame Princess guy. Ah, poo poo-rear end Countblanc posted:there was also the goon-made Behemoth, as well as an actual Monster Hunter licensed game which is coming out Didn't hear a word about either of those but I'll go check 'em out!
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Feb 4, 2021 00:00
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Dawgstar posted:James Raggi is the Legend of the Flame Princess guy. *Lamentations of the Flame Princess, to be clear. He's a big Jordan Peterson fanboy. The "Flame Princess" his big game system is named after is referencing a red-haired woman he followed to Europe to be closer to, and no they weren't dating or in a relationship at the time.
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Feb 4, 2021 01:26
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She also found out about his infatuation towards her and her response was, rightly, "ew, no, creepy".
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Feb 4, 2021 01:28
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aldantefax posted:I was watching some Lindybeige videos and while they are interesting I guess he is also a monster as well so really I have no real idea what affiliations people have as a downstream consumer a lot of the time. Apparently a lot of Youtube pop historian / HEMA types also may fall into this category, but I honestly haven't the energy to touch the poop and sift through it since I'd rather be thinking about dumbass West Marches ideas or whatever it is bouncing around in my noggin at the moment. I don't know of anything particularly monstrous he's done (like being a raging anti-semite or something), but I also don't really follow him so it's totally possible. I mostly know him from the MilHist thread cause he constantly posts really, really dumb hot takes that are sourced somewhere between his butt and an anecdote from a LARP once, so that thread routinely mocks him. He does also do videos about swing dancing that I have to admit that he's pretty good at. Not the videos, he's garbage dressed like your grampa, but he's a competent dancer, even though it pains me to give him any credit ever.
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Feb 4, 2021 02:24
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Nuns with Guns posted:*Lamentations of the Flame Princess, to be clear. No, no, he named his RPG after his mental pedestal-image of a Finnish redhead he found on a Finnish metal fansite. He then got into a relationship with a different Finnish women and moved to Finland to be with her, and then creeped out the redhead by tracking her down. Totally not kinda weird!
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Feb 4, 2021 03:11
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tbh that's a pretty fitting way to name your rpg where rape magic is a thing
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Feb 4, 2021 03:13
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LatwPIAT posted:No, no, he named his RPG after his mental pedestal-image of a Finnish redhead he found on a Finnish metal fansite. He then got into a relationship with a different Finnish women and moved to Finland to be with her, and then creeped out the redhead by tracking her down. Oh OH well that is so much better. Heh.... [starts reflexively scanning Amazon for reasonably-priced bulk shipments of bear mace to calm down]
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Feb 4, 2021 03:29
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LatwPIAT posted:No, no, he named his RPG after his mental pedestal-image of a Finnish redhead he found on a Finnish metal fansite. He then got into a relationship with a different Finnish women and moved to Finland to be with her, and then creeped out the redhead by tracking her down. Also all the modules he writes are generic death traps in the vein of Tomb of Horrors...but ones that don't really provide any incentive for the players to try to go through beyond "It's there". His work is all slathered in this very juvenile, Cannibal Corpse-style "Blood and guts and murder and rape and other stuff that freaks the normies out" and most of his brand has been built around pretending there's some form of ongoing moral opposition to his work based on said aesthetic. Large segments of his writing and modules are taken up by him angrily rambling about how people are stupid for not playing D&D the right way, or the players arte stupid for not playing the module the right way, or the play-testers are stupid for not figuring out the arcane moon logic of his stupid death traps, or you're stupid for wanting to have fun with the module you're reading... Also the entire system that won him fame is a retroclone of B/X-era D&D with some houserules stapled on top, so it's not like he's really doing much in the way of actual game design... ...Now that I think about it, why does he have a fanbase to begin with? His only real contribution to the scene mostly involved throwing money at other, more competent people and being an rear end in a top hat.
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Feb 4, 2021 06:10
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KingKalamari posted:Also all the modules he writes are generic death traps in the vein of Tomb of Horrors...but ones that don't really provide any incentive for the players to try to go through beyond "It's there". To be fair LOTFP is a very well put together clone of BX D&D*, particularly for the era it first came out in, as WOTC was still doing that whole "No PDF's" thing and the market hadn't been flooded yet with other BX clones like it is now, so at the time it felt revolutionary *BX is still probably the best official incarnation of D&D besides 4e
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Feb 4, 2021 06:52
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Are you defending LotFP and if so why.
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Feb 4, 2021 06:57
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Xiahou Dun posted:Are you defending LotFP and if so why. No, they're answering why he has a fanbase. Why does D&D still have a fanbase despite WotC's conduct and the poor game design of 5e? Got in first, built the brand first, and there's enough of a "sunk cost" (financial or emotional) people don't want to switch. Raggi got in on OSR early on and pushed his brand hard.
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Feb 4, 2021 07:06
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KingKalamari posted:His work is all slathered in this very juvenile, Cannibal Corpse-style "Blood and guts and murder and rape and other stuff that freaks the normies out" and most of his brand has been built around pretending there's some form of ongoing moral opposition to his work based on said aesthetic. Oh, very much so. One of his blog posts has him complain that his enjoyment of Nightwish is ruined because Tarja Turunen has become respectable enough to sing a Christmas concert, as if he can only enjoy things because of how it shocks normies. Unfortunately for Raggi, it is no longer the early 90s and schlock and gore is no longer an act of radical sticking-it-to-the-man-ness: today publishing the grotesque and offensive is something we all can, and that means we have the time and opportunity to reflect on whether we actually should. And the free speech Raggi so champions just happens to mean the rest of us are free to critique his product and note that it's kinda gross and misogynistic. KingKalamari posted:...Now that I think about it, why does he have a fanbase to begin with? His only real contribution to the scene mostly involved throwing money at other, more competent people and being an rear end in a top hat. He publishes an uncomplicated and traditional RPG that sells itself on allowing people to play out those juvenile, Cannibal Corpse-style schlock-horror fantasies, which means he's pretty much the sole provider for a marketable demographic. He also has decently high production values (the art may be juvenile, but it's not technically bad), and has managed to attract enough famous people to write for his B/X retroclone specifically that there's a point to buying it over the competitors. It's not an inept marketing strategy, it's just that the product and attitude he peddles is kinda gross. LatwPIAT fucked around with this message at 07:14 on Feb 4, 2021 |
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Feb 4, 2021 07:09
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Thankfully LOTFP is no longer necessary, if people want BX in official form they can go get it for like 10 bucks on Drivethru, and if they want a more modern format for it they can go for OSE instead
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Feb 4, 2021 07:36
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Wasn't he the one who popularized the no-prize "actually the dungeon is a barrier that keeps a giant undead horde from ruining the map, players beating the dungeon fucks the world over" gimmick? There's some novelty there, though I think that format works best with player buy in, and "Ok that's our intro, now we play the real game about dealing with that," I think his version was just one upping Tomb of Horrors's 'gently caress you' ending. Coolness Averted fucked around with this message at 08:19 on Feb 4, 2021 |
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Feb 4, 2021 07:57
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drrockso20 posted:Thankfully LOTFP is no longer necessary, if people want BX in official form they can go get it for like 10 bucks on Drivethru, and if they want a more modern format for it they can go for OSE instead I do keep hearing people repping Old School Essentials lately, which I assume is a fairly recent release, and I've been out of the OSR loop for a while. How does it compare to stalwarts like, say, Labyrinth Lord or Swords & Wizardry?
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Feb 4, 2021 07:59
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SkyeAuroline posted:No, they're answering why he has a fanbase. Why does D&D still have a fanbase despite WotC's conduct and the poor game design of 5e? Got in first, built the brand first, and there's enough of a "sunk cost" (financial or emotional) people don't want to switch. Raggi got in on OSR early on and pushed his brand hard. Hey there, Huckleberry. I ain’t passing out wolf tickets, I’m just asking them why that’s where they go to the fence. Jesus that was one hick sentence that just formed. If I spent another 20 seconds I’d be talking about “rumble seats”.
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Feb 4, 2021 08:02
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aldantefax posted:Yeah, it is all somewhat exhausting and really for awhile I just completely disengaged from the hobby as a result, but now that I'm "back into it", so to speak. e: this comes off as way more sarcastic than it's meant, it's really no, like, personal failing or anything to not know every creator's politics or criminal record or what have you, doubly so in a hobbyist sphere like RPG writing. or even, dare I say, to know them and decide you still want the thing. I mean, depending, obviously. If you're eyeing some Proud Boy's Crusaders: The RPG I'm personally judging the hell out of you. My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 08:15 on Feb 4, 2021 |
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Feb 4, 2021 08:10
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Xiahou Dun posted:Hey there, Huckleberry. I ain’t passing out wolf tickets, I’m just asking them why that’s where they go to the fence. Someone literally asked "why does this thing have fans?" They answered. You're acting like someone reposted a lovely 2015 defense of the game like "Well you see the really gross rituals are strictly for NPC villains so.."
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Feb 4, 2021 08:16
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Hmm. Sounds like a bad guy. Rules Cyclopedia was pretty sensibly laid out. I thumbed through all of OSE's core book and it is a bit easier to read in PDF format and the stuff that is pointed out makes sense as errata or interpretations. I dunno that I'm necessarily going to use it over another game engine, since I probably might leverage DCC before any other retroclone, but that's a thing for the OSR thread, I wager. Anybody playing any games recently? Just wrapped up another GURPS session and gonna run D&D tomorrow, then more GURPS on Friday. Hooray!
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Feb 4, 2021 08:20
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Coolness Averted posted:Someone literally asked "why does this thing have fans?" They answered. You're acting like someone reposted a lovely 2015 defense of the game like "Well you see the really gross rituals are strictly for NPC villains so.." I what? Am I getting threads confused? Because that ain’t how the order of events were. Sincere what to the huh now?
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Feb 4, 2021 08:24
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Coolness Averted posted:Wasn't he the one who popularized the no-prize "actually the dungeon is a barrier that keeps a giant undead horde from ruining the map, players beating the dungeon fucks the world over" gimmick? The concept originates with an adventure called The Lichway from a very early issue of White Dwarf back in the 70's gradenko_2000 posted:I do keep hearing people repping Old School Essentials lately, which I assume is a fairly recent release, and I've been out of the OSR loop for a while. How does it compare to stalwarts like, say, Labyrinth Lord or Swords & Wizardry? It's a very slick presentation of BX formatted from the ground up to be easy to use whether in the all in one Rules Tome format, or the more modular Black Box format where it's divided up into five little hardcover volumes, alongside that they did a Kickstarter for their Advanced Fantasy subline that ports over AD&D's rules over into a more BX compatible form*(either in four^ additional small books like the Black Box or in a two volume tome format that combines all of both the Classic Fantasy and Advanced Fantasy content together like the Rules Tome but in two volumes due to total size) One of the reasons they did the multiple volumes version is to support modularity down the line, like want to run something more like Gamma World, just swap out the book that has the fantasy classes out for one more genre appropriate *by which I mean for example Gnomes and Half-Orcs are done as BX style Racial Classes by default, though it does add rules for separating Race and Class for people who prefer that sort of thing, also Monks are left out cause they want to include it for an Asian Fantasy book down the line ^technically the first two volumes were printed up as part of the original release as an add-on but they did another print run so that they could be included with the new volumes for those who missed out the first time(or wanted extra copies)
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Feb 4, 2021 08:43
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Coolness Averted posted:That sounds a little like a card based RPG one of Zak's victims worked on before they were doxxed and harassed into quitting the industry and internet. Heavily inspired by monster hunter and megaman games with the base/original game being a sort of sci-fi ruined earth and one of the stretchgoals that was achieved was a viking/Ragnarok flavored reskin. Oh man, Last Stand. A friend ran it for my group as a one-shot, it was tremendously fun. I get kind of upset when I think about the amount of talent that's been harassed out of the RPG community by OSR dipshits. gradenko_2000 posted:I do keep hearing people repping Old School Essentials lately, which I assume is a fairly recent release, and I've been out of the OSR loop for a while. How does it compare to stalwarts like, say, Labyrinth Lord or Swords & Wizardry? I've only read Labyrinth Lord, so I would have trouble directly comparing, but I found OSE's core focus is accessibility, clarity, and modularity, which it has in spades. It boils down BX to a clear, concise ruleset that I found tremendously easy to run for a game. They've released an Advanced ruleset which folds in elements of AD&D within the framework, like having Class and Race be separate options, as well as classes that came out in later editions (i.e. Knight, Bard, Druid etc.) I would definitely treat it as a go-to for running old-school dungeon diving games, with Scarlet Heroes as a backup for one/two PC games.
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Feb 4, 2021 08:48
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PerniciousKnid posted:Seriously, there's absolutely no reason to roll d110. If the last ten options on the list are your favorites then move them to the top. My Lovely Horse posted:That's a good point. What are 10 more items on the list really gonna add to the process for your players? Throw out the 10 least interesting ones, and your game can only get better for it. Or if you can't decide which those are, roll a virtual d110 ten times. look, y'all, i didn't write the Sun card for the Deck of Several Things, i just figured out how to do it with dice: Sun. You gain proficiency in the skill of your choice for the duration of the adventure. In addition, a common or uncommon wondrous item appears in your hands. The DM chooses the item, which you possess for the duration of this adventure. There are 110 common + uncommon wondrous items and I already gave the Wild Magic Sorcerer a glove that can cast a spell entirely at random once per day (thankfully it fails most of the time because of targeting issues) hence having a numbered deck of cards to make "rolling" d520 possible (5E currently has 520 spells according to what I've got access to on Beyond). And I'd rather the players feel like they have agency instead of arbitrarily picking stuff so yeah: I'm going to let them roll against the full list in both cases and let it play out. Also, since I've put so much time on this I'm going to use it for some regular loot rolls, what of it? - KingKalamari posted:...Now that I think about it, why does he have a fanbase to begin with? His only real contribution to the scene mostly involved throwing money at other, more competent people and being an rear end in a top hat.
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Feb 4, 2021 10:06
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Whybird posted:Honestly I think that's pretty cool, I like the idea of a setting where wild animals like rhinos and elephants and stuff are actually really dangerous and tooling up to go kill one is a job of a whole party of high-level adventurers. This is something I've been thinking about lately. I've been rereading Elfquest, which has always had a "nature red in tooth and claw" streak to it, especially early on, and I like the balance it strikes. The protagonists are a hunter-gatherer tribe of barbarian elves who are virtually immortal, inhumanly fast and agile, and have the senses of wolves, but they routinely get murdered by bears and sabertooth tigers because large carnivores are loving terrifying, and a hunter getting impaled by a buck or gored by a boar happens on a regular basis. The series antihero gets his start as a vengeful rear end in a top hat when he tries to hunt game for his starving family as a youth, but gets crippled by a jackal because he didn't respect the danger it posed. If you're playing with a relatively grounded system, you could get a lot of gameable mileage out of the sorts of animals that work in that series: Ice Age-era megafauna like smilodons, dire wolves, giant elk, mammoths, overgrown cassowaries, that sort of thing. If you're in a setting where you need to hunt to survive, or to provide for your loved ones because agriculture isn't reliable, you're going to be forced into conflict with these things at some point. Even regular hunting is absurdly dangerous when you're doing it with a premodern bow and a spear. Hell, you could easily get a good "level one adventure" scene where taking down a small herd of wild boars requires the same level of SWAT team preparation as kicking in a dungeon door with a high-CR encounter behind it.
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Feb 4, 2021 10:09
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aldantefax posted:Hmm. Sounds like a bad guy. I'm playing in Call of Cthulu Pulp - the Twin Serpents adventure path. It's being competently run, but it's just not very interesting. The alternative was yet another forgotten realms dungeon crawl. I'm also running Scum and Villainy - coming up to 5 months now with weekly sessions. They picked the smuggler ship and are just bimbling around, so honestly it's getting a bit tedious to run, but the individual sessions are fun. I wish I'd either vetoed the smuggler or told them outright, you need an actual goal other than making money, or you need to pick one or two factions to focus on working for or against. Also started a solo game of Ultraviolet Grasslands, which I'll start writing up and putting on my solo-rpg blog soonish.
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Feb 4, 2021 10:10
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FFT posted:And I'd rather the players feel like they have agency instead of arbitrarily picking stuff so yeah: I'm going to let them roll against the full list in both cases and let it play out. randomness is the opposite of agency
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Feb 4, 2021 13:37
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