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I feel like there's a difference between portal fantasy and isekai
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Feb 4, 2021 18:00
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Dante's inferno is isekai.
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Feb 4, 2021 18:05
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OwlFancier posted:Dante's inferno is isekai. Ah, but is Niven and Pournelle's Inferno?
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Feb 4, 2021 18:07
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Does this mean isekai is fanfiction?
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Feb 4, 2021 19:28
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what have you done
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Feb 4, 2021 19:30
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Tunicate posted:I feel like there's a difference between portal fantasy and isekai Not really, at least in the beginning. Now it’s popular so it’s just a dressing to sell whatever story you actually want to tell. That story is like 90% harem stories
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Feb 4, 2021 20:27
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Sham bam bamina! posted:None of those are isekai because they aren't naked power fantasies in which the other world exists to be exploited by the protagonist. John Carter of Mars and Gor might count then
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Feb 4, 2021 21:13
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Mr. Sunshine posted:Odysseus is fanfiction. The Iliad is fanfiction. Ever wonder why Achilles sulks in his tent not appearing for large tracts of the story? He's (possibly) an OC DO NOT STEAL crowbarred into an older story
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Feb 5, 2021 00:17
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Strategic Tea posted:The Iliad is fanfiction. Ever wonder why Achilles sulks in his tent not appearing for large tracts of the story? And the Aeneid was taking a minor character from the Illiad and retconning him into a badass who did a ton of cool poo poo, was really super important and impressed the heroes of the previous work, kept arriving in places juuuust after Odysseus left and having his own more impressive adventures etc.
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Feb 5, 2021 00:25
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Strategic Tea posted:The Iliad is fanfiction. Ever wonder why Achilles sulks in his tent not appearing for large tracts of the story? Diomedes is way cooler than Achilles anyway. Though at the very least Achilles keeps screwing over the Acheans by being a crazy idiot, like the Iliad literally starts with Apollo ruining their day because Achilles won’t give Agamemnon one of his captives so that Agamemnon will return another captive to a priest of Apollo. That’s more negative stuff than you usually get out of an OC DO NOT STEAL.
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Feb 5, 2021 00:31
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Yeah but that’s more because the Greeks seem to loving love their characters being weird assholes. They might not see it as a negative
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Feb 5, 2021 00:33
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CharlestheHammer posted:Yeah but that’s more because the Greeks seem to loving love their characters being weird assholes. They might not see it as a negative Truth in
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Feb 5, 2021 00:34
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CharlestheHammer posted:Yeah but that’s more because the Greeks seem to loving love their characters being weird assholes. They might not see it as a negative True, but there’s also the scene where Odysseus tries to trick him into getting back in the fight with a false alarm and cleverly placed spear/shield and then calls him out for being a wimp. It’s a fun story and I’d really like to see a well-done adaptation of it that goes all-in on the crazy poo poo. None of this Troy down to earth movie stuff, I want Achille’s horse telling him he’s gonna die and Hephaestus fighting a river.
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Feb 5, 2021 00:41
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Mokinokaro posted:Brooks' Word & Void trilogy is honestly a decent read. Just don't read the set that turns it into a Shannara prequel. I've read this, I thought it was pretty good overall but it inadvertently shoots itself in the foot in a pretty entertaining way. The first book was set in the US in 1997, with the second set in 2002 and the third in 2012. However, they were all written pre-2000, so the world never evolves beyond the late '90s. The second book has some odd bits that feel out of place in a US that would've still been close to 9/11, but it's super noticeable by the third one, where the world never underwent the surge in cellphone and then smartphone popularity. Like, there's a bit where the power and phone are cut from a character's house and they just deal with the inconvenience because nobody in fictional 2012 is carrying even an old Nokia brick or anything.
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Feb 5, 2021 00:56
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Strategic Tea posted:The Iliad is fanfiction. Ever wonder why Achilles sulks in his tent not appearing for large tracts of the story? See also Lancelot, basically a French Mary Sue crowbarred into a much older story specifically for sex appeal.
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Feb 5, 2021 06:57
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Sham bam bamina! posted:None of those are isekai because they aren't naked power fantasies in which the other world exists to be exploited by the protagonist. Not every isekai is a naked power fantasy and some actually critique the idea quite harshly in their own way (Re:Zero immediately comes to mind). There are plenty of shitass ones that are straight-up power fantasies, though.
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Feb 5, 2021 07:36
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What we need is more stories where the isekai protagonist type is just a side character. Like, Star Trek series where one character is a refugee from the early 21st century (like that whale biologist in the movie) and they're just an enlisted rating in a Lower Decks type setup, who's pals with an alien from the gangster planet. Is Futurama an isekai?
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Feb 5, 2021 08:32
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Strategic Tea posted:The Iliad is fanfiction. Ever wonder why Achilles sulks in his tent not appearing for large tracts of the story? Funnily enough this is almost certainly not true since Achilles is an attested Bronze Age Greek name.
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Feb 5, 2021 08:58
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I think the theory was that he'd been added by other contemporary Greeks as part of the oral tradition. But it was a long time ago and I don't remember well 
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Feb 5, 2021 10:14
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I mean, it's not as if it's a verifiable hypothesis either way.
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Feb 5, 2021 12:13
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Ghost Leviathan posted:See also Lancelot, basically a French Mary Sue crowbarred into a much older story specifically for sex appeal. Learning that the French added in the best most chivalrous knight who fucks Arthur’s wife made me really hate him as a character
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Feb 5, 2021 12:47
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Is Futurama an isekai? I got as far as top-left being a real isekai and bottom-right being dante's inferno
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Feb 5, 2021 15:43
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Ugly In The Morning posted:True, but there’s also the scene where Odysseus tries to trick him into getting back in the fight with a false alarm and cleverly placed spear/shield and then calls him out for being a wimp. Song of Achilles by Madeline Miller was great book and really played up the whole part where Achilles dresses as a woman to avoid the war. She also treated all the mythological elements as real because that’s the loving story, do it right. But then she’s also a classics teacher, so of course she’d respect the source material rather than Hollywood’s no magic, no homo bullshit.
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Feb 5, 2021 17:48
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I like the Iliad, but the things it goes into detail about are odd. Like the chapter where the Greeks form up, with every single city, town, village, and crossroads represented, at great detail. Although I think I recall reading that some of that got added in later, with various authors sticking in their hometown (or their audience's location). Or spending more time on describing Achilles' armor than the actual climactic fight between Hector (tamer of horses) and Achilles.
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Feb 5, 2021 23:41
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DACK FAYDEN posted:keep posting these questions so I can figure out my isekai alignment chart meme Futurama is dead center. It's animated but not Japanese, the world is unrecognizable and fantastical but not a different dimension/planet
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Feb 5, 2021 23:45
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Cobalt-60 posted:I like the Iliad, but the things it goes into detail about are odd. Like the chapter where the Greeks form up, with every single city, town, village, and crossroads represented, at great detail. Although I think I recall reading that some of that got added in later, with various authors sticking in their hometown (or their audience's location). Or spending more time on describing Achilles' armor than the actual climactic fight between Hector (tamer of horses) and Achilles. You can see what’s really important to an author by what they go into insane detail about. It’s honestly nice to see that from r writing a lot of stuff hasn’t changed in centuries.
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Feb 6, 2021 00:13
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Achilles’ armor is at least really relevant to the plot on top of being super fancy, it’s part of why the Acheans always know when Achilles is on the field with them (and notice his absence when he isn’t), the whole Patroclus thing, etc.
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Feb 6, 2021 00:21
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Cobalt-60 posted:I like the Iliad, but the things it goes into detail about are odd. Like the chapter where the Greeks form up, with every single city, town, village, and crossroads represented, at great detail. Although I think I recall reading that some of that got added in later, with various authors sticking in their hometown (or their audience's location). Or spending more time on describing Achilles' armor than the actual climactic fight between Hector (tamer of horses) and Achilles. My classics prof. used to say that the Homeric epics are like a recording of a jazz session that then got made into a record. Oral story-telling was/is loose and improvisational, and early copies probably would have been a mix of versions people had heard with only a central outline of events shared between them.
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Feb 6, 2021 00:34
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The bit about “Hector didn’t get stabbed in the windpipe” almost certainly came about because some dick in the audience was like “he’s awfully talky for someone who just got stabbed in the neck!”
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Feb 6, 2021 00:35
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thetoughestbean posted:Learning that the French added in the best most chivalrous knight who fucks Arthur’s wife made me really hate him as a character The first King Arthur story/book I read was for kids, so in it Lancelot was just 'The best knight who did all sorts of neat things like kill evil giants single handedly' and he didn't even have the best story; instead it went to another knight (Geraint? Might have been a take on Gawain's Green Knight story) where the brother of some knight showed up pretending to be a random kitchen guy and King Arthur sent him on a mission to kill some evil color coded knights or something. Anyway, in the last story with Mordred Lancelot is said to be 'in his land across the sea' so he's not there to help out with the final battle. And of course, they don't identify who Mordred's father is. Heck I think Guinevere is barely mentioned in the book. So a few years later when I actually saw a movie featuring that part of the legend (Merlin and the Sword/Arthur the King, it was), I was incredibly shocked. Lancelot was the noblest of knights, how could he do that with his king's bride! Such is the nature of tales so often retold in so many ways.
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Feb 6, 2021 07:51
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Speaking of the Iliad, I did do the the first episode of Goon History retelling it in half an hour+ a minute or so for a reading from some guy* if anyone wants a quick rundown. Not a terrible book, just dense. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3956859 The story has a lot of cool side bits about other heroes (ajax and diomedes are my favorites of the non-Odysseus ones) but there's a clear through-line of how the poem works with Achilles that makes me feel the idea of him being a later addition doesn't work. *Lance Reddick Ugly In The Morning has a new favorite as of 19:36 on Feb 6, 2021 |
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Feb 6, 2021 19:33
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Ghost Leviathan posted:What we need is more stories where the isekai protagonist type is just a side character. Like, Star Trek series where one character is a refugee from the early 21st century (like that whale biologist in the movie) and they're just an enlisted rating in a Lower Decks type setup, who's pals with an alien from the gangster planet. I’m reminded of “Fred,” one is the most underrated SCP ideas who is a simple entity that loves participating in books but as a very brief mention because he/it just loves stories so much.
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Feb 7, 2021 16:44
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SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL posted:I’m reminded of “Fred,” one is the most underrated SCP ideas who is a simple entity that loves participating in books but as a very brief mention because he/it just loves stories so much. this sounds very wholesome and if it is not I do not wish to be disabused of this notion.
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Feb 8, 2021 03:08
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:this sounds very wholesome and if it is not I do not wish to be disabused of this notion. My favorite ancient Foundation story is when one of the big self important authors finally finished his epic series, and the final scene is his OC SCP robot girl finally uniting these primordial cosmic forces and ascending to godhood. and then it was vandalized with 'And Fred was there too.' He got super mad.
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Feb 8, 2021 03:25
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:this sounds very wholesome and if it is not I do not wish to be disabused of this notion. No thats literally it, the experiments with him involved putting him in other books to see what would happen and whether he'd like it. Iirc the fun ones were him in Lord of the Rings where he had a Tolkien-esque name, and house of leaves which made his head hurt.
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Feb 8, 2021 03:26
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wonderful. thank you 
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Feb 8, 2021 03:28
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:this sounds very wholesome and if it is not I do not wish to be disabused of this notion. This one was my favorite quote:Test Material: The entire script of William Shakespeare's "Hamlet".
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Feb 8, 2021 03:33
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A lot of isekai is poo poo but My Next Life As a Villainess is not, go watch that
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Feb 8, 2021 03:44
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I'm watching Cautious Hero or something like that and it's kinda one note but not as fun as One Punch Man. I think it counts as an isekai since it's a hero being summoned into a divine realm to go help another earth. Pretty litrpg as well since there's levels and whatnot they worry about. I'm only like 4 episodes in but so far it's at least funny in parts.
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Feb 8, 2021 05:06
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Is Galaxy Quest an isekai? Discuss.
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Feb 8, 2021 06:05
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