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Countblanc posted:also that requires the characters to be very genre savvy and to realize they're in a story with forced drama and stakes by writers. in-world the WoL and allies are almost definitely one of the safest groups to handle dangerous artifacts *tosses eye off into the clouds*
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Feb 5, 2021 00:26
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WrightOfWay posted:Where is the Eorzean equivalent of the Speedwagon Foundation when you need them? there was one, but it was run rather sloppeh
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Feb 5, 2021 00:28
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:We, uh, don't have a whole lot to worry about Ascians doing much of anything at this point. I mean Fandaniel is right there. The Ascians are not able to enact their biggest grandest plans but they're far from harmless. They are still remarkably powerful individuals who can cause serious harm and if Fannypack is to be believed can end the world just fine.
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Feb 5, 2021 00:28
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ImpAtom posted:I mean Fandaniel is right there. Fandaniel is there. Everyone else of note is dead, and unable to be uplifted to an Ascian again.
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Feb 5, 2021 00:30
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Fandaniel is there. Everyone else of note is dead, and unable to be uplifted to an Ascian again. Nah, there's a fair amount still around, and if Fandaniel can be a threat (and more to the point, can turn up out of nowhere to be a villain) they can all be. We've still got Pashtarot, Altima, Deudalaphon, and Halmarut unaccounted for. Emmerololth is in a bit of a 'but we didn't see the body' situation where it's entirely plausible they were brought back after dying at Eureka, but we don't know if they have been. So still five or six Ascians to square off against.
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Feb 5, 2021 00:35
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multijoe posted:What if we chucked it down a hole? Y'know, a deep one, I'm sure that would get rid out it I mean to be fair, that was a very spur of the moment decision. I'd have to imagine Save the Queen would be handled more intelligently.
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Feb 5, 2021 00:58
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Cleretic posted:Nah, there's a fair amount still around, and if Fandaniel can be a threat (and more to the point, can turn up out of nowhere to be a villain) they can all be. They're also all low-tier sundered scrubs who can be killed conventionally without a massive plot device, so it wouldn't really have the same drama in any case
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Feb 5, 2021 01:04
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multijoe posted:They're also all low-tier sundered scrubs who can be killed conventionally without a massive plot device, so it wouldn't really have the same drama in any case You can kill their body easily enough but they can just swap bodies unless you blast them with a shitload of aether. Remember that Nabriales and Igeyorhm were sundered and killing them required Moenbryda's sacrifice and Niddhog's eye respectively.
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Feb 5, 2021 01:16
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WrightOfWay posted:You can kill their body easily enough but they can just swap bodies unless you blast them with a shitload of aether. Remember that Nabriales and Igeyorhm were sundered and killing them required Moenbryda's sacrifice and Niddhog's eye respectively.
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Feb 5, 2021 01:20
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WrightOfWay posted:You can kill their body easily enough but they can just swap bodies unless you blast them with a shitload of aether. Remember that Nabriales and Igeyorhm were sundered and killing them required Moenbryda's sacrifice and Niddhog's eye respectively. It's a good thing we have a very powerful magic sword then 
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Feb 5, 2021 01:22
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Fandaniel is there. Everyone else of note is dead, and unable to be uplifted to an Ascian again. There are still other Ascians around, Fandaniel even mentions them and how they're free to do their own things now. There are just no more Unsundered. WrightOfWay posted:You can kill their body easily enough but they can just swap bodies unless you blast them with a shitload of aether. Remember that Nabriales and Igeyorhm were sundered and killing them required Moenbryda's sacrifice and Niddhog's eye respectively. There are Ascians who can be killed normally and Ascians who can't. They mention that sometimes they die and the response is just to go and grab another shard.
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Feb 5, 2021 01:22
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Nessus posted:I will simply choose to acquire additional rare artifacts and dear friends to discharge in order to destroy all of my enemies in a comprehensive and decisive manner from day 1. Easy. Sacrificing a lot of your friends to achieve your goal of defending your home and world. Where have i heard that one before 
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Feb 5, 2021 01:23
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HenryEx posted:Sacrificing a lot of your friends to achieve your goal of defending your home and world. Where have i heard that one before On the topic of the Ascians I thought they needed one of the big guys to raise up new Ascians from shards, but it wasn't clear if the current guys can just bodyswap indefinitely or hop through the void. Like I got the impression they were weaker but it was absolutely not clear if this was due to having less aether storage, having less experience in using their magicks, or actually fundamentally lacking powers that E-S and Lahabrea did.
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Feb 5, 2021 01:29
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Cleretic posted:Nah, there's a fair amount still around, and if Fandaniel can be a threat (and more to the point, can turn up out of nowhere to be a villain) they can all be. Emmeroloth appears in 2.3, which takes place after the events outlined in Eureka, so I'm assuming she's either still around or it's a retcon. 
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Feb 5, 2021 01:31
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Waffleman_ posted:Emmeroloth appears in 2.3, which takes place after the events outlined in Eureka, so I'm assuming she's either still around or it's a retcon. Or this is a new Emmerololth after the one in Eureka got dunked, given Emet could just fish the bits out of the Lifestream and stuff them into someone else. The specific way she went down leaves this open
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Feb 5, 2021 01:44
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I mean yeah, that's what I meant. Still around as an active member, but a different shard.
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Feb 5, 2021 01:45
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Waffleman_ posted:"What are we going to do with Save The Queen?" Well, we do know someone who is looking for a new sword right now.
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Feb 5, 2021 01:45
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Waffleman_ posted:Emmeroloth appears in 2.3, which takes place after the events outlined in Eureka, so I'm assuming she's either still around or it's a retcon. Emmerololth is definitely in a situation where they can decide either way based on what they want. If they want more Ascians to throw at you she can be there, but if they want to use the plot point of 'the Students of Baldesion turbofucked their whole island to kill an Ascian, but it worked' then they've got that ready to go too. My guess is they'd probably keep her dead (or alive but make the Eureka situation a big game-changer for her, Mitron-style), because we're still not really short on Ascians without her. There's more value in the story acknowledging the events of Eureka than there is in 'oh look, another one'.
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Feb 5, 2021 01:57
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WrightOfWay posted:You can kill their body easily enough but they can just swap bodies unless you blast them with a shitload of aether. Remember that Nabriales and Igeyorhm were sundered and killing them required Moenbryda's sacrifice and Niddhog's eye respectively. The entire last hades cutscene is every single scion doing the same blade of light you usually do to break the light crystals. We've all leveled up beyond needing the fancy artifacts. Every ascian is just gonna get pin cushioned by all the scions including estinien and tataru. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Feb 5, 2021 |
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Feb 5, 2021 02:05
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Same wiki that accidentally implies Urianger is 1500 years old, but the timing lines up for Emmerololth getting kicked through a fine aetherial meshStudents of Baldesion posted:Patches 2.1 and 2.2 seem to be building up to their involvement in future updates/expansions. At the end of "A Realm Awoken" the Scions seem to lose contact with the Students of Baldesion. At the end of "Through the Maelstrom" Urianger discovers that something happened to the Isle of Val, as though some great and powerful magic similar to Ultima and Meteor was used and the island was "utterly....gone."
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Feb 5, 2021 02:09
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:The entire last hades cutscene is every single scion doing the same blade of light you usually do to break the light crystals. We've all leveled up beyond needing the fancy artifacts. Yeah, all using the same white auracite--you know, a fancy artifact. And none of them even worked to shut the fucker down. We can't assume all Ascians are now chumps because their daddies are gone. Fandaniel's doing a right loving job of ruining the world, and you probably noticed that when we met him face-to-face his brain didn't explode from our level 80 mind bullets. So they're probably still a handful no matter how big you think your hands are.
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Feb 5, 2021 02:18
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Cleretic posted:Yeah, all using the same white auracite--you know, a fancy artifact. And none of them even worked to shut the fucker down. The white auracite doesn't provide any of the aether needed to kill ascians, they're the very temporary traps. They have nothing to do with powering the blades of light like the Eyes or the staff of grandpa elf or the sacrifice of friends the post I was directly responding to talked about. Like I said, we were all doing sick blades of light in the Hades fight without any power up artifacts. Please pay attention before trying to get an own in. Also the white auracite has literally worked every single time we've done it, it's our own personal beam of aether that has been wanting. I've already corrected you about this in this thread or the other before, but we used one to successfully ice Igeyorhm after beating Ascian Prime (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O81y_dJ1mWg&t=1678s). We successfully use it to trap Nabriales after the Chrysalis fight where we try to beam him to death but fail and Moe kills herself to power up our beam to shatter it and him with it. White Auracite even works against Hades (It's those things the Scions all hurl at him and start shooting with their aether beams), it just takes multiple pieces and a LOT of light aether in the form of a big axe. it's why that big hole in Hades at the end has all that white crystal in it. Please pay attention, both to the discussion and what actually happens in the story. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Feb 5, 2021 |
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Feb 5, 2021 02:46
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ImpAtom posted:There are still other Ascians around, Fandaniel even mentions them and how they're free to do their own things now. There are just no more Unsundered. Sundered Ascians can still self-resurrect. They only need to find alternate versions to uplift after something seriously goes wrong and one perma-dies. Nabriales was sundered, and he needed the white auracite plus aether nuke treatment.
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Feb 5, 2021 02:49
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SirSamVimes posted:Sundered Ascians can still self-resurrect. They only need to find alternate versions to uplift after something seriously goes wrong and one perma-dies. Nabriales was sundered, and he needed the white auracite plus aether nuke treatment. It is however an open question whether in order to do that, they were reliant on Emet's specific powers over the Lifestream that were, after the extinction of the Ancients, unique to him as far as we know
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Feb 5, 2021 02:51
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Mister Olympus posted:It is however an open question whether in order to do that, they were reliant on Emet's specific powers over the Lifestream that were, after the extinction of the Ancients, unique to him as far as we know I think it's just a property of mastery over the Echo, hence the Sahagin priest who was going to self-resurrect (until Leviathan ate his aether), and also Zenos' body-hopping.
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Feb 5, 2021 02:55
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As long as we give the sundered the ol trap and zap they can't self resurrect. Another ascian would have to go find another shard of them somewhere and give them their memories form the memory crystals which are now kind of gone. So even with the 4-5 we have left they cannot go get more and as long as we kill them proper it's for keeps now.
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Feb 5, 2021 02:57
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And none of the blades of light even worked. To shut the fucker down. If you're going to write paragraphs, please try to actually address the point: that it's still a big deal to kill an Ascian, no matter what cutscene powers have been exhibited. And you can tell because Fandaniel is still alive, despite him outright trying to antagonize the buffest motherfuckers to kill him, and being right there in front of everyone for these blades of light to gently caress him up if, indeed, they could do that. You still need something special, and you will always need something special. So far those somethings have been: -An ancient Gandalf Staff, -a dragon's eye, -a literal god-king, -nuking an island, -presumably-big-rear end blade of light from the heroes of the First at the apex of their power (did not actually work well, probably made things worse), -definitely-big-rear end axe of light made out of every Lightwarden's aether (actually did work), -and the Crystal Tower, only by elaborate trap. You might notice that none of these are small beans, and are not easily repeatable. You might also notice that the closest one to what you're proposing is the one that severely backfired. So, yeah, maybe don't just assume that Urianger can handle Deudalaphon no problem, unless you're on board with five or six more Edens. Personally, that's a few too many E8s for my liking.
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Feb 5, 2021 03:14
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Cleretic posted:And none of the blades of light even worked. To shut the fucker down. All you need is a lot of aether and something to hold the ascian in place. At our current level of kickassery we could probably (with the Scions' help) take out a Sundered Ascian.
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Feb 5, 2021 04:35
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SirSamVimes posted:All you need is a lot of aether and something to hold the ascian in place. At our current level of kickassery we could probably (with the Scions' help) take out a Sundered Ascian. See, that puts us at approximately the strength of half a Nidhogg. And that sounds wrong, given it wasn't so long ago that we needed eight people to defeat Shinryu, who was approximately the strength of one whole Nidhogg. ...who, one expansion before that, we also needed eight people to defeat. So I don't think we've gotten Hogg Strong over time, and I'm curious where people are getting the idea we have. My personal estimation is that by now, we're probably by ourselves about as strong as one sixteenth of a primal. This is specifically using the Weapons as comparison points; Ultima had three primals in it and we couldn't scratch it until they were extracted, meanwhile we can beat Ruby and Emerald (each with one primal in them) with a team of eight. That's an extremely imprecise calculation that doesn't account for combat prowess or possible differences in the Weapons' actual strengths, but given a single primal was one of the Ascian killers, and we're definitely not equal to one primal, it's probably closer. But perhaps more importantly, I just don't think it would be interesting for us to be able to blow up all remaining Ascians without at least one Macguffin. Because the worst possible way to end the game's main antagonists would be to make it feel like cleanup duty.
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Feb 5, 2021 05:16
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The thing is that you have to take into account G'raha Tia, who knows he can't beat us, and isn't going to even try. So that's already increasing your chances up from one-sixteenth of a primal.
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Feb 5, 2021 05:30
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Weary wanderer, the numbers don't lie, and they spell disaster for you at the Dying Gasp.
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Feb 5, 2021 07:01
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I feel like if we've beaten the Biggest Baddest ascians, the only way to make the remaining ones an adequate challenge (after Fancy Dan who is buddying up with a different ridiculously powerful individual) is to have them work against us in a more concerted effort. The final boss of that plotline could be them for the first time making an Ascian Prime out of more than two. And by "more than two", I mean "all of the ones that aren't already dead".
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Feb 5, 2021 07:36
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SirSamVimes posted:I feel like if we've beaten the Biggest Baddest ascians, the only way to make the remaining ones an adequate challenge (after Fancy Dan who is buddying up with a different ridiculously powerful individual) is to have them work against us in a more concerted effort. The final boss of that plotline could be them for the first time making an Ascian Prime out of more than two. And by "more than two", I mean "all of the ones that aren't already dead". I think their current tactic is throwing an Ascian at us who literally has nothing to lose. Up to this point, the ones in charge had a goal that required certain steps: Namely bring about enough Rejoinings to resummon Zodiark and bring back all of their dead friends and family. They had to base their actions around the completion of that plan. Fandango, on the other hand, wants to die and take everything with him. It gives him way more leeway to work with and makes him more dangerous, since he's not trying to accomplish anything other than Rocks Fall Everyone Dies. There's no situation that might force him to pull a punch like with Emet or Elidibus.
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Feb 5, 2021 07:42
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the_steve posted:I think their current tactic is throwing an Ascian at us who literally has nothing to lose. I think you're onto something both in and out of universe. I think that the best thing that's ever happened to the lesser Ascians is the fact that the playbook is gone. The guys on top calling the shots are dead, we killed them. That means that the reason we used to see them as faceless goons is gone, there's nobody telling them to make the same moves over and over again. We've got Fandaniel, the lunatic with nothing to lose willing to just make big, loud plays out in the open and who, yeah, will never hold back. But once he's gone? We've got four more Ascians (possibly five if Emmerololth isn't dead), and I don't know what the hell their plans are, but I know it's not going to be 'stay in the shadows building superweapons, fascists, and fascist superweapons and then do your best Kingdom Hearts impression when they see you'. Put simply: Your response to learning there's a few more in line behind Fandaniel shouldn't be 'this is easy because they're weaker'. It should be 'oh poo poo, they could all be this crazy'.
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Feb 5, 2021 08:06
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It wouldn't surprise me if one or more of the remaining Convocation members just fucks off to enjoy their immortality somewhere far away from the WoL and their huge Ascian bodycount. With the Unsundered gone, they're free to pursue their own goals and they probably aren't all suicidal nihilists like FannyD and might not come into direct conflict with us.
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Feb 5, 2021 08:14
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That's what Lohgrif is doing.
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Feb 5, 2021 08:23
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That'll be the 80-90 crafter quests, clearly. We've got to help the Ascian on vacation throw mad parties or some poo poo. Makes me wish we had a brewer class of some sorts. Though it does kind of overlap with CUL.
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Feb 5, 2021 10:19
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Fandaniel actually probably isn't working alone. "We, the Telophoroi..." I doubt that was a royal we and he probably wouldn't refer to he and Zenos as a group.
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Feb 5, 2021 10:20
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Mysticblade posted:That'll be the 80-90 crafter quests, clearly. We've got to help the Ascian on vacation throw mad parties or some poo poo. See, I was thinking of the 80-90 crafters too, but I was thinking 'Helmarut has decided to use ancient magics to score a monopoly on literally every single possible crafting sector', and it's up to you to beat his unbeatable quantity with unbeatable quality. Basically we make an entire questline out of that Spongebob scene where he has a cookoff with King Neptune.
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Feb 5, 2021 10:30
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Cleretic posted:See, I was thinking of the 80-90 crafters too, but I was thinking 'Helmarut has decided to use ancient magics to score a monopoly on literally every single possible crafting sector', and it's up to you to beat his unbeatable quantity with unbeatable quality. Didn't we already do the the whole "quality > quantity" story with the 50-60 Leatherworking quest though?
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Feb 5, 2021 10:39
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