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Charles Gnarwin posted:What gets me about the constant obsession with explaining the the mythical casual viewer is that other forms of media don’t do that. If a new villain shows up at the end of an episode of Supernatural or whatever, they don’t immediately explain everything about who it is and what their motivation is. Laying everything out anytime something new happens is just bad storytelling. The "casual fan" is a straw man argument used by old-timers trying to keep their jobs and/or stay relevant. They are simply carnies continuing the grift. Which also gets to your point of why you see it in wrestling but not other media.
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Feb 4, 2021 16:21
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it happens in comics all the time, which is especially funny because to buy a monthly comic you have to go to a dimly lit basement retail swamp called like Amazing Dungeon it's a roundabout way to say "I know what is happening here but that is because I am a very advanced fan, what of the plebs upon whom I look down" Karma Tornado fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Feb 4, 2021 |
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Feb 4, 2021 16:34
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Karma Tornado posted:it happens in comics all the time, which is especially funny because to buy a monthly comic you have to go to a dimly lit basement retail swamp called like Amazing Dungeon It would be fun if the intro video to each AEW rather than just showing off a bunch of highlights, explained each major character and showed their finishing move, the way comics give you a brief rundown of a character's powers on the first page.
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Feb 4, 2021 17:46
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Dango Bango posted:The "casual fan" is a straw man argument used by old-timers trying to keep their jobs and/or stay relevant. They are simply carnies continuing the grift. Which also gets to your point of why you see it in wrestling but not other media. Yeah, it's funny to me that the same people who talk about the casual fan tend to be the same people who complain about "spot monkeys," but really, if I'm picturing a non-wrestling watcher flipping through the channels, I think they're more likely to stop on Fenix or Nick Jackson or whoever doing some insane flippy thing than they would be over two guys grunting and holding a headlock
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Feb 4, 2021 17:59
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I absolutely got into wrestling because of cool flippy poo poo and leg slapping and whatnot. I've always been baffled by the idea that slowing down and focusing on "wrestling fundamentals" will be better for attracting an audience, not only because it's less exciting but also because the "wrestling fundamentals" involve just as much (if not more) obviously fake poo poo than spot-heavy wrestling. At least superkicks have an element of "holy poo poo what" until you learn what's going on; worked punches look like dogshit 80% of the time and I genuinely do not understand why people think comically exaggerated fake limping is a way to make wrestling feel more real
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Feb 4, 2021 18:07
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I think Dave and others have mentioned that its Lucha that usually does the best with non fans due to it's high flying and colourful mask
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Feb 4, 2021 18:15
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PaybackJack posted:It would be fun if the intro video to each AEW rather than just showing off a bunch of highlights, explained each major character and showed their finishing move, the way comics give you a brief rundown of a character's powers on the first page. WWE replays segments from like fifteen minutes before, that's pretty much like having a panel of Wolverine popping out his claws with a thought bubble that says "good thing I've got these UNBREAKABLE ADAMANTIUM CLAWS" and a narrative caption that says "Wolverine UNSHEATHES his MIGHTY claws!" Karma Tornado fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Feb 4, 2021 |
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Feb 4, 2021 18:19
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WWE definitely had casuals when they toured, people who would show up because wrestling was in town and then not watch again until the next time it showed up. But I actually agree that anyone who's watching a TV show, especially on cable, is involved to some extent.
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Feb 4, 2021 18:23
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Casual fans definitely exist on some levels. You have people who just watch the show on Monday or Friday and don't really think about it otherwise, people who are big fans and will go to WrestleMania and house shows but don't really talk about it online and people who drop in and out. There just aren't many left anymore!
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Feb 4, 2021 18:28
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The idea of just casually flicking on 3 hours of Raw fills me with existential dread.
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Feb 4, 2021 18:40
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Karma Tornado posted:WWE replays segments from like fifteen minutes before, that's pretty much like having a panel of Wolverine popping out his claws with a thought bubble that says "good thing I've got these UNBREAKABLE ADAMANTIUM CLAWS" and a narrative caption that says "Wolverine UNSHEATHES his MIGHTY claws!"
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Feb 4, 2021 19:33
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Gaz-L posted:ah, so you've read Claremont's X-Men then? barely disguised authorial fetishes? overexplaining basic concepts while completely forgetting about ongoing plot threads? characters whose entire thing is just "I'm not from around here, and boy howdy do I have some kind of accent"? the only way the WWE could be closer to to Claremont X-Men is if they introduced a bird themed space empress who wanted to bone Vince
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Feb 4, 2021 19:42
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Karma Tornado posted:the only way the WWE could be closer to to Claremont X-Men is if they introduced a bird themed space empress who wanted to bone Vince do NOT let Vince see this
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Feb 4, 2021 19:46
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Karma Tornado posted:barely disguised authorial fetishes? overexplaining basic concepts while completely forgetting about ongoing plot threads? characters whose entire thing is just "I'm not from around here, and boy howdy do I have some kind of accent"? the only way the WWE could be closer to to Claremont X-Men is if they introduced a bird themed space empress who wanted to bone Vince Don't forget "people from other countries forgetting basic words in English (except Storm, because Claremont doesn't know what language they speak in 'Africa')" MACHKA
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Feb 4, 2021 19:49
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that was point three if she hadn't gotten pregnant we would have seen Becky Lynch's family castle, where the leprechauns live
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Feb 4, 2021 19:55
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Karma Tornado posted:barely disguised authorial fetishes? overexplaining basic concepts while completely forgetting about ongoing plot threads? characters whose entire thing is just "I'm not from around here, and boy howdy do I have some kind of accent"? the only way the WWE could be closer to to Claremont X-Men is if they introduced a bird themed space empress who wanted to bone Vince don't dox Becky's comeback after she has her kid.
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Feb 4, 2021 19:58
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"Karma Tornado" posted:the only way the WWE could be closer to to Claremont X-Men is if they introduced a bird themed space empress who wanted to bone Vince ah so this is where we get the Always Sunny crossover
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Feb 4, 2021 20:21
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Dango Bango posted:The "casual fan" is a straw man argument used by old-timers trying to keep their jobs and/or stay relevant. They are simply carnies continuing the grift. Which also gets to your point of why you see it in wrestling but not other media. Fighting games do that There's a big push to make games simpler with less systems and mechanics to pull in the general gaming crowd
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Feb 5, 2021 01:21
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MvCI exploding on the launch pad pumped the brakes on that somewhat, thankfully.
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Feb 5, 2021 01:36
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Defiance Industries posted:MvCI exploding on the launch pad pumped the brakes on that somewhat, thankfully. guilty gear strive is still looking to play like anime samsho
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Feb 5, 2021 02:05
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Do I only notice Chris Claremont talk after 372 Pages did his Willow book with George Lucas or did Claremont have some kind of renaissance in the last year?
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Feb 5, 2021 02:14
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MassRafTer posted:Do I only notice Chris Claremont talk after 372 Pages did his Willow book with George Lucas or did Claremont have some kind of renaissance in the last year? I've never gone more than fifty posts without talking about Chris Claremont I am constantly in a Claremont renaissance faire
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Feb 5, 2021 02:19
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MassRafTer posted:Do I only notice Chris Claremont talk after 372 Pages did his Willow book with George Lucas or did Claremont have some kind of renaissance in the last year? the comic forum hasn't talked about Chris Claremont as much as people in this thread just talked about Chris Claremont in like a year
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Feb 5, 2021 02:31
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Smoking Crow posted:anime samsho That's a turducken you got there
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Feb 5, 2021 02:41
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I'd rather a Chris Claremont Fed than a John Byrne Fed
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Feb 5, 2021 02:46
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The "flipping through the channels/wandering into a comic shop and deciding that yes, I want to be consumed by this hobby!" thing is largely a myth, but the Internet makes both wrestling/comics as a product accessible to just about anyone, and also coincidentally contains much of the backstory and context that you may need to become a regular consumer. I have several real life friends who had zero/minor knowledge/interest in wrestling who got into New Japan/AEW/wrestling in general just because they'd see promo clips or match clips/gifs etc. of something interesting to them, whether it's New Day, Sasha Banks, Nyla Rose, Lucha Bros, Toru Yano, Minoru Suzuki, Nakamura, Ibushi, Asuka, etc. If they know someone (say, me) who they feel like asking "what is the deal with the guy who wrestles with his hands in his pockets?" or "does Luke Perry's son really wrestle with a dinosaur?" or whatever, you don't need to tell them to tune into [station] at [time] to see if they show up, they can immediately watch video clips on line, read any number of articles/Wikipedia entries, and subscribe to a streaming service if they want to watch older matches. The barrier of entry is remarkably low, besides a surplus of information. Some people maintain a genuinely casual level of fandom where maybe they just follow a favorite wrestler on social media and ask how Chuck Taylor is doing in conversation, but other folks I know end up with New Japan World subscriptions or watching Dark in the background at work or are actually buying AEW PPVs for themselves now. Likewise with comics, it's all somehow even more byzantine and complicated than wrestling but you don't need to go to a smelly comic shop -- or even a nice comic shop -- if you decide you want to read the new Hulk/Batman/X-Men comics you've been hearing about. You can order trades online or just buy digital copies on Comixology, and if you don't know who "Puck" is when he shows up halfway through Hulk, again, the Internet exists. I will say that WWE's enormous deluge of content + easily Google-able constant scandals + overall poo poo product means that I cannot think of anyone I know who started watching WWE after like... 2016? I definitely had a friend who got super into NXT (after ignoring wrestling post-WCW dying) who seemed to give up after all of her NXT favorites (American Alpha, the Revival, Ember Moon, etc) got sent through the Main Roster woodchipper.
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Feb 5, 2021 02:56
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Yeah, as someone who didn't give a hot poo poo about wrestling 8 years ago my indoctrination was stumbling across an article about Daniel Bryan and finding it cool. Which got me watching some of his clips, which got me googling about other wrestlers, which got me checking out wwe but not being hooked, and then having Lucha Underground make me a full fledged fan. And the reason that WWE didn't catch me wasn't because I didn't understand what was going on. I could and if I didn't I had Google. It was because it was obvious even as a non-fan that it wasn't very good. It was perfectly watchable, especially before I know about other wrestling, but it wasn't good. It was obvious that WWE didn't really respect what they were doing.
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Feb 5, 2021 03:48
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https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/1357497698778157056 Dave is an old man
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Feb 5, 2021 04:24
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Aww that poor guy was just trying to give Dave a compliment 
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Feb 5, 2021 04:25
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Also delightful from the February 2 Wrestling observer Radio, him saying: "I don't want to say bad things about Tito (Ortiz)....even though he does comedically stupid things every day"
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Feb 5, 2021 04:52
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For some reason, Dave casually mentioning that Tito has been to his house in the middle of calling him a loving idiot reminded me of the time he did a show with Bryan and Filthy Tom to talk about Jon Jones, and said that UFC hadn't ever fired anybody important who had failed a drug test, which made Tom audibly go,"....hey....  " 
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Feb 5, 2021 04:58
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I think I started getting interested in wrestling again a few years ago coming across GIF accounts on Twitter. I don’t think there’s any media in the last ten years I’ve consumed by happenstance, it’s always been “hearing something is good, choosing to check it out.” At most I’ve checked out a book from the library based on its inclusion in a display, but I don’t browse tv/film that way anymore.
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Feb 5, 2021 05:13
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MassRafTer posted:Do I only notice Chris Claremont talk after 372 Pages did his Willow book with George Lucas or did Claremont have some kind of renaissance in the last year? His storyline re-introducing Carol Danvers to the Marvel comics continuity and how he called out the then all-male writing and editorial team deserves some respect, especially by having her pretty much tell the Avengers to go choke on a gently caress and kill themselves for being great big fans of rape.
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Feb 5, 2021 06:25
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Edge & Christian posted:The "flipping through the channels/wandering into a comic shop and deciding that yes, I want to be consumed by this hobby!" thing is largely a myth, but the Internet makes both wrestling/comics as a product accessible to just about anyone, and also coincidentally contains much of the backstory and context that you may need to become a regular consumer. Casual fans lived with the barest appearances of Thanos for years before everyone knew who he was in the MCU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flt-8OxfIQQ In fact, I'd say the whole interconnectedness of the Marvel Cinematic Universe was built on making casual fans feel like they could become hardcore by making them look the unexplained poo poo up. People catch on quick and they love a rich history they can learn. Lead Pipe Cinch posted:I think I started getting interested in wrestling again a few years ago coming across GIF accounts on Twitter. I don’t think there’s any media in the last ten years I’ve consumed by happenstance, it’s always been “hearing something is good, choosing to check it out.” That's my story.
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Feb 5, 2021 06:50
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I've long felt part of the problem is that wrestling fans act embarrassed about liking wrestling, so of course nobody is going to get into it when the enthusiasts of it don't even seem to like it.
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Feb 5, 2021 06:54
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MassRafTer posted:Do I only notice Chris Claremont talk after 372 Pages did his Willow book with George Lucas or did Claremont have some kind of renaissance in the last year? He's definitely been (rightly) redeemed over the past 3-4 years. Wazzu posted:https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/1357497698778157056 Aww...did someone explain? E:I looked at the mentions, hundreds explained.
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Feb 5, 2021 07:12
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https://twitter.com/bryanalvarez/status/1357577611992395777?s=20
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Feb 5, 2021 07:36
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It'd be awesome if AEW saw the swell around Maki Itoh and changed up plans to give her a big push in the tournament. Maybe I'm just an idiot (and I probably am) but I kind of doubt the initial plan was to put her anywhere near the final in Japan, much less bring her to the US in the short-term.
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Feb 5, 2021 08:01
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Memnaelar posted:It'd be awesome if AEW saw the swell around Maki Itoh and changed up plans to give her a big push in the tournament. Maybe I'm just an idiot (and I probably am) but I kind of doubt the initial plan was to put her anywhere near the final in Japan, much less bring her to the US in the short-term. The wonderful thing about Maki is that being Maki is suffering and frustration. She'll do fine if eliminated first round due to her character. But yes I want her to win the tournament. Or anyone from the Japanese wing, new fresh champion. I was really surprised no impact or Indy wrestlers on the US side.
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Feb 5, 2021 08:12
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they're hyper aware of maki itoh's online popularity. might not change a lot for now because of the way the world is but she will be a dynamite regular sooner or later
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Feb 5, 2021 08:13
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