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 Fuckin forums beetlejuice over here!! E: welcome to the KTM page 
Beve Stuscemi fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Feb 5, 2021 |
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Feb 5, 2021 21:44
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:
loving beat to the first post on the KTM page, time to go away in shame for another 5 years
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Feb 5, 2021 21:48
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Z3n posted:better video: https://streamable.com/c3v12 lol at least you avoided the markers
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Feb 5, 2021 21:52
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This post brought to you by the XCW300 gang.
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Feb 5, 2021 21:52
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T Zero posted:The issue for me is that I live in DC where there are only a couple companies that will insure motorcycles at all, and the ones that do charge a hefty premium. I shopped around for quotes for a bunch of different bikes (Ninja 300, z400, CBR250, etc.) with Geico and the lowest I saw for basic (not comprehensive) coverage was $27 a month. What do they quote you for say a DRZ400, WR250X, TW200, or XT250? Those are all very capable and fun dual sports, which make an awesome learning platform and are generally so much fun that a lot of riders gravitate back toward them after many years of riding. For street only, see what rates are for a CB500F, VanVan, Rebel 500, TU250. Some of those options are probably not great for riding on the highway, but all would be excellent for surface streets. The dual sports are probably the cheapest to insure.
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Feb 5, 2021 21:56
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why did you put the t-dub in one list and the van van in another why henry
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Feb 5, 2021 21:57
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one's the dirt version, other's the street version  Seriously, T Zero, don't sleep on dual sports. I was under the misaprehension for drat near all my riding career that riding a dual sport on the road wasn't a good use of the bike, it wasn't capable enough for speeds above 40 mph on dirt tires, and it just generally wasn't the right machine. The more and more I rode one, the more I preferred it, till I got rid of my street bike all together. Last summer, I had a day where I rode from the middle of Denver up to a 10,000 foot pass on bad lovely dirt and back down, on 50/50 dirt/street tires; on the highway on the way back downhill, I found myself pushing it just as hard on super twisty pavement as I ever pushed my street bike on fat 17" street wheels and tires. Riding around town is great too, you're higher up than the roof of a lot of cars and can handle curbs, train tracks, debris better with a 21" front wheel, and are narrower than most street bikes. In supermoto mode, they are god's own city motorcycle. If you don't like 'em, that's fine too, nothing wrong with that. HenryJLittlefinger fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Feb 5, 2021 |
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Feb 5, 2021 21:59
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My next two on my list for the spring are a DRZ400sm and a TW200/VanVan. I'll put some track plastics on the gixxster and sell off the oem poo poo if anyone bites. Riding around a big city is going to be much more enjoyable on something that won't do like 120mph off the end of a goddamn onramp. Also sportbike ergos. Plus I can teach the kids/wife/mom on the t-dub.
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Feb 5, 2021 22:21
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Coydog posted:Thanks for breaking it all down for me like that. Clearly I was wrong about what TCS could do for me. Is there any electronics package that would do that for me? Or is it just ABS and a prayer? Ok so for anyone reading this post: coydog is responsible for the wall of text that follows, but the information is aimed at everyone because it's clear there's a general lack of understanding on the topic here. If you want to understand traction control, first you must understand anti lock brakes, both because of principle and because TC builds on already-existing ABS hardware. Firstly: what does ABS do? It allows the braking wheel to keep rotating in a situation where, without intervention, it would lock up and stop spinning. We want the wheel to keep spinning firstly because a turning wheel can stop much harder than a skidding one (normally much less effort is needed to keep something sliding than to get it sliding in the first place so it follows the there is more friction before you start to slide), and secondly because a turning wheel can still steer and stop the bike from falling over/crashing. How do abs do what it do, shaggy? The most basic systems have wheel speed sensors at either end connected to an ecu controlling a series of solenoids linked to a hydraulic pump. All of that besides the sensors is packaged in one box called the ABS module, which the brake lines run into. The ecu simply looks at the difference between two wheel speeds - if one wheel is turning significantly slower/not at all, it's safe to assume that wheel is locked or about to lock. If a wheel is locked, the appropriate solenoid moves and releases the brake on that wheel. This has to happen so the wheel can start turning again, it only takes a split second. As soon as the wheel starts to rotate, braking pressure is restored with the aid of the pump and solenoids. This usually results in rapid lock-unlock oscillation that leads to a very unpleasant sensation, especially if it's the front wheel, but it's better than crashing. More sophisticated systems (cornering abs) integrate lean angle and pitch data from an IMU and thus work better at a lean, and can to some degree anticipate locks before they happen, but they still operate on identical principles. Crucially, the ABS can't do anything if there's no mechanical traction; it can unlock a locked wheel, but if there's no friction available it'll just lock up instantly the moment brake pressure is restored. What this feels like IRL, in the rain for example, is the ABS only being able to apply very light braking pressure and the bike only barely slowing down even though you're pulling it back to the grip; on gravel and other loose surfaces, it is actually better to lock up and drag the wheels like a ground anchor than trying to parcel out the tiny amount of grip traction available, and this is usually the situation terrible internet people complain about when mandatory ABS comes up. Tl;dr locking a wheel happens because brake force exceeds friction and ABS can only affect the first half of the equation by taking away brake pressure; it can't help you if the tyre itself lacks grip for whatever reason, but it can make those situations more manageable. OK but what about TC? Well, those wheel speed sensors work both ways, and traction is just braking in the other direction. What if we connected them to the ECU and told it to reduce power when the back one starts spinning faster than the front? In a nutshell, that's what TC is. It's important to understand at this point that TC wasn't developed as a safety feature, it was developed as a way for GP racers to extract 100% of the available drive traction without constantly risking orbital insertion and paralysis. So in the same vein as ABS: a skidding wheel has less grip and control, so the goal is to reduce power just enough to restore grip. How to reduce power? There are a number of ways and their effectiveness neatly correlates to how much money it takes to build the system. The absolute crudest method is an ignition/fuel cut - rear wheel starts to spin, ecu immediately cuts power to the coils or injectors or both, engine immediately becomes dead weight. This is a crap method for two reasons: 1. shutting off all power is very sudden and aggressive and usually destabilizes the bike unless you're basically upright 2. it does nothing to account for throttle position, and therefore has no effect on engine braking or the flywheel effect (more on this later). Otoh it is cheap and works on any bike with minimum effort and development. A better way is to reduce power without shutting off completely. There are myriad strategies out there for doing this but they all boil down to a mixture of retarding spark timing and reducing throttle angle, while accounting for lean angle. To do this you need some extra gizmos: fly by wire throttle to overrule the meatsack's hamfisting, IMU to establish lean angle and pitch, both of which cost money so are only becoming common now. The nitty gritty or, why TCS isn't magic. TC principles are always the same, but engines are all different, so we need to talk about power pulses and the flywheel effect. The ICE doesn't make smooth, continuous power like an electric motor, but rather produces a series of jackhammer blows with not much in-between. A thumper does one hit per two crank rotations, a 180° parallel twin does two, with a short gap between the pulses and a long one on either side. An inline four is a relentless series of even blows every 180° of rotation, a v-twin is two quick hammer blows followed by a long pause, a v4 or crossplane i4 is groups of hammer blows with long pauses in-between. Why does this matter? If traction is like braking in the opposite direction, then ABS principles can be applied: Imagine a thumper that has just exceeded the traction limit, so the most recent hammer blow has made the wheel spin faster than road speed. There is now a lengthy pause before the next hammer blow, during which the tyre has the chance to take a breather and re-grip. This means that when wheel spin starts, the rider or TC system has absolutely loads of time to reduce torque before the next hammer blow keeps the wheel spinning - just like ABS pulsing the brake on and off. It's not coincidence that dirt bikes, where dealing with traction loss is routine, are all thumpers or twins at most. Imagine the same thing with an inline four: the first hammer blow gets things spinning, and then there's another and another and another with very little pause in-between. This gives a very smooth sensation but it's not good for the tyre, which can't catch a break. Anyone who has tried riding an i4 down a gravel road has felt the sheer terror of shutting the throttle only to find the bike just keeps spinning and going sideways. This is partly the seamless power, partly flywheel effect. This is why Yamaha bothered to make the crossplane crank, why anyone bothers with v4's, why v-twins can keep up with fours despite the lack of outright power - when the pulses are clumped together with long pauses between, managing traction is easier. What is the flywheel effect? Imagine our thumper idling. There is a pulse every two rpm, but in-between those pulses there's a whole lot of friction, pumping losses and valve spring weight to contend with that are all trying to bring the engine to a stop. If you have no flywheel, that is exactly what will happen, because the one of the flywheel's many purposes is to build up momentum to both smooth out the power pulses and keep the engine spinning against it's own drag when rpm is low. If you think about it, you'll realize that the more cylinders you have, the smaller the flywheel needs to be, because there's less time for the crank to slow down between pulses. Great! More cylinders = more power, lighter flywheel = more power! But there's a flip side to the flywheel effect that flat track racers are intimately familiar with - it is a form of built-in traction control. If the wheel starts to spin and you/tc don't reduce throttle in time, engine rpm will increase and make the slide impossible to control. How quickly this happens depends on the flywheel - a big heavy flywheel won't just instantly accelerate, it'll take time to come up to speed, time that the rider can use to throttle back. A big thumper or v-twin with heavy flywheels gives you loads of time to react - Harleys are some of the easiest bikes to control wheel spin on for this reason. An i4 with emaciated high-revving flywheels gives you no time at all. Combine this principle with the power pulsation effect and you can see that different engines have drastically different 'native' TC that is then overlayed with your riding and suspension and tyres, and then electronic TC. In some situations it is literally impossible to react fast enough because the engine is gonna do what it's gonna do and electricity can't stop that any more than a human can and it feels like you've teleported to the ground, in other situations it is trivial and feels like spreading hot mamba butter on an eagle's testes. Big i4 sportbikes are designed to have manageable traction at the very limit - the engine is spinning really hard, the throttle is fairly open, the rear suspension and tyre are heavily loaded, the tyre itself is very sticky and has very progressive grip loss when loaded. At this point a skilled rider can 'peek' over the limit by a couple of percent and manage the slide with his body and skill - the TC just gives a safety net in case he fucks up, and it only needs to contain a little bit of power on top of what the bike is already containing mechanically. Compare this to the 'dr650 on the road in the rain' example - traction loss is very sudden, the suspension and tyre arent heavily loaded at all, the engine is barely spinning. The system has to react very quickly but it also has to do a huge job with limited resources; the bike's native TC is barely loaded so it all has to happen by just cutting power and hoping for the best, and this is on a bike designed for easy to control traction loss with a slow thumper, heavy flywheel, soggy suspension and lazy geometry. The upshot is that you can tip the balance very easily with your weight and skill, but you need to be expecting traction loss in the first place for that to work. Hence git gud by riding a dirt bike everywhere, hence another reason to learn on an enduro. Now imagine the sportbike in the same example. Sudden spin, no tyre or suspension loading, steep geometry and a zipping i4 desperate to rev - you're going down, TC or no TC. I leave it to the reader to draw their own conclusions about the relative weighting of skill, machine and electronics when it comes to not-crashing from wheel spin.
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Feb 5, 2021 23:33
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DRZ400's slap. Edit: definitely look into getting one. Was dirt cheap to insure in NoVA(i know not DC), plenty of fun to ride, cheap(er), has a good exhaust note, spare parts and accessories galore. Tenchrono fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Feb 5, 2021 |
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Feb 5, 2021 23:48
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Slavvy posted:Ok so for anyone reading this post: coydog is responsible for the wall of text that follows Oh HELL yes that was a great read. Thanks for the effortpost. I see what you mean now, and why not all TC are made the same. I was wondering about bikes like the katana, where people say it has older TC, and how that might reflect to the real world performance. Nice to not put too much trust in the TC system in a future bike, too. edit: This is all why supermotos and dualsports are the best learner bikes. I gotta get another one.
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Feb 6, 2021 00:05
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Slavvy posted:risking orbital insertion This is a good post, I read the whole thing in the CROSS TRAINING ADVENTURE guy's voice.
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Feb 6, 2021 00:11
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Gorson posted:This is a good post, I read the whole thing in the CROSS TRAINING ADVENTURE guy's voice. I read every slavvy post in Barry's voice
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Feb 6, 2021 00:12
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Gorson posted:This is a good post, I read the whole thing in the CROSS TRAINING ADVENTURE guy's voice. Who? HenryJLittlefinger posted:I read every slavvy post in Barry's voice I'm not a Barry but I'm confident that if I were British I would be a Barry, Steve or possibly Mick.
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Feb 6, 2021 00:16
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Slavvy posted:Who? Yea, Baz, short for Barry.
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Feb 6, 2021 00:38
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Slavvy posted:Who? I am a Barry and when I read your posts you sounds just like me. E: if you want I can induct you into the Legion of Barrys. There's me, Obama, and the Flash As Nero Danced fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Feb 6, 2021 |
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Feb 6, 2021 01:07
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HenryJLittlefinger posted:
I have no qualms with dual sports - I passed my MSF class on one. I just haven't found any in my area in my price range. One of my constraints is that I have to buy from a dealer because our local DMV is booked for months. My goal is to work my way up to a Bonneville, Vulcan S, or scrambler of some sort.
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Feb 6, 2021 01:17
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T Zero posted:I have no qualms with dual sports - I passed my MSF class on one. I just haven't found any in my area in my price range. One of my constraints is that I have to buy from a dealer because our local DMV is booked for months. That sucks about needing a dealer. Can confirm DRZ is a perfect DC bike. And reasonably cheap to insure as i remember. The one thing it’s not good for is riding out 66 to fun roads. But there are other places to ride. Other downside of a DS is it’s going to get stolen. A cover and a big lock to something permanent are very much advised. e: who was the poster who hit a mailbox? Maybe I have the story wrong but they’re the only one I remember who bought a bike, had an extremely stupid crash, and stuck around and was a good poster.
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Feb 6, 2021 01:36
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That was razzled. Conveniently on a DRZ too iirc. Peters mill area is near DC too if you want to experience some dirt and hey what do you know you got a fairly capable DS motorcycle all lined up.
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Feb 6, 2021 01:41
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As Nero Danced posted:I am a Barry and when I read your posts you sounds just like me. I'm really not sure cause the only Barry I know IRL is from the UK, wrote off a gsxr1000 and then bought both a Fireblade and gsr750, concluded the gsr was a much better bike for the kind of riding he does, then sold it and now dailies the blade, falling off every 2-3 months.
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Feb 6, 2021 02:00
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Slavvy posted:I'm really not sure cause the only Barry I know IRL is from the UK, wrote off a gsxr1000 and then bought both a Fireblade and gsr750, concluded the gsr was a much better bike for the kind of riding he does, then sold it and now dailies the blade, falling off every 2-3 months. Well there's always one bringing the average down. e: Here you can be the terminator  double e: gently caress yeah I got a theme song! As Nero Danced fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Feb 6, 2021 |
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Feb 6, 2021 02:13
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As Nero Danced posted:I am a Barry and when I read your posts you sounds just like me. https://youtu.be/BwAu9S_UBPo
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Feb 6, 2021 02:17
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Feb 6, 2021 02:55
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Slavvy posted:I'm really not sure cause the only Barry I know IRL is from the UK, wrote off a gsxr1000 and then bought both a Fireblade and gsr750, concluded the gsr was a much better bike for the kind of riding he does, then sold it and now dailies the blade, falling off every 2-3 months. Barry Morris is the name of the guy who does the Cross Training Enduro youtube channel. He’s an Aussie with a very pleasant and unassuming tenor that sounds more Kiwi to my American ear, narrates every second of his videos with mountains of good information, and makes loads of stupid jokes that land because of his personality. He’s a wealth of knowledge and a huge dork and makes quality moto content.
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Feb 6, 2021 05:59
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GriszledMelkaba posted:who needs TC when you can just get lucky af  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyktdu8KYMk
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Feb 6, 2021 08:14
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Good post.
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Feb 6, 2021 16:06
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Lmao, I love people's audible reactions to tasting their own life
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Feb 6, 2021 18:25
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I ended up getting the CBR250 from the dealer today. The fit is fine and I can flatfoot it easily. The positioning is surprisingly upright. I didn't even look at the Ninja, though I did sit on a Yamaha R3. Looks like it had a fall on the right side based on the rashes and cracks on the fairings, but otherwise seems intact (You can see the scraped paint and bar end in the photo). It doesn't have the stock exhaust and has a loud muffler, which I imagine I'll restore to stock. ("Loud pipes save lives" the salesman tells me). It also didn't come with the manual -- found the PDF online. No ABS. But otherwise, it seems peachy. It looks nicer in person. Cost breakdown: 2013 CBR250 - 4,000 miles - Listed $2400, out the door $3000 - paid in full Gear (Snell helmet, armored jacket, gloves, wheel lock) - $500. Insurance (Comprehensive, towing, but no collision coverage) - $50/month Delivery - $75 I didn't spring for the dealer warranty, bought as-is. Total is well under my $5000 budget. On balance, I'm glad I went to a dealer, despite the markup. They did instill confidence that the bike was ready to go. Also, I was surprised how weird the sizing on some of the gear was and am glad I was able to try it on first. Got bigger a size helmet, jacket and gloves than I would have on my own. I'm just waiting for the delivery. I expect to take it out tomorrow, though I'm just a little nervous about riding without supervision for the first time. Currently debating whether to get frame sliders. Anyone have any experience with them? Also, is it worthwhile to get a helmet or bike cam?
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Feb 6, 2021 22:34
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I would get a camera, yeah. It adds some annoying extra steps here and there (charging, deleting, turning on/off) but it can come in handy. I wish i had had it when i got hit. it's another one of those things where you get it and use it so that afterward you don't regret not having it. I learned a lot just riding on streets in my neighborhood. I went places with my kids, and they rode on their bicycles. Then i rode to work, and eventually on the highway/expressway/freeway which was terrifying. I was going like 52 in the right lane and some person BLEW past me on a sportbike at warp speed (probably like 80). Now i keep up with other bikers for a bit and we dodge through traffic for a bit until one of us needs to exit.
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Feb 6, 2021 22:44
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Frame sliders are a worthwhile purchase in your situation. Post a pic of your muffler, 90% chance it's some ebay garbage and refitting a stock one is the way to go, it will make the bike easier to ride and less likely to fall off in a minor whoopsie. That brake lever looks bent 
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Feb 6, 2021 23:45
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Over the summer I was sitting at an intersection in west Milwaukee on the Goldwing and out of nowhere a car tire comes rolling across this major intersection with like 6 lanes of traffic each way and *bonk* hits the Goldwing front tire dead on. I said out loud in my helmet “where the hell is my GoPro when I need it” So the moral of the story is bring a camera in case youre in an accident of course, but ACTUALLY bring it because something hilarious might happen. Beve Stuscemi fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Feb 6, 2021 |
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Feb 6, 2021 23:47
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 I did not know that they came in that beautiful gloss red! Great choice all around on that bike. Don't worry about the scuffs on one side, you won't notice it later, and won't feel so bad if you let the bike fall over. I'd go back to stock muffler. The cbr250 with a can sounds like a dirtbike which weirds me out when I hear it. You might love it though for the braap braaap.
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Feb 6, 2021 23:59
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Definitely get a frame slider since it's your first bike as there will be some embarrassing garage and 0mph drops and the $100 you spend on them can save quite a bit in mirrors and levers (plus any bodywork that might get unlucky).
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Feb 7, 2021 00:08
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Slavvy posted:Post a pic of your muffler, 90% chance it's some ebay garbage and refitting a stock one is the way to go, it will make the bike easier to ride and less likely to fall off in a minor whoopsie. The brake lever is slightly bent, but the camera angle makes it look worse than it is. Here's the muffler.
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Feb 7, 2021 01:11
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Yeah ok get rid of that. There is a dent in the back wheel btw.
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Feb 7, 2021 01:29
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How big a curb do you hop to get a dent that big in a back wheel? Or is it a hit when leaned over thing?
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Feb 7, 2021 01:38
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T Zero posted:I ended up getting the CBR250 from the dealer today. The fit is fine and I can flatfoot it easily. The positioning is surprisingly upright. I didn't even look at the Ninja, though I did sit on a Yamaha R3. You did good. Now buy some armoured motorcycle trousers, particularly with knee pads in them. Normal jeans are not good enough and will tear and rip your flesh instantly when you go down, and smashed knees are no fun for walking either. And buy some motorcycle boots.
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Feb 7, 2021 01:46
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T Zero posted:The brake lever is slightly bent, but the camera angle makes it look worse than it is. It's a Delkovic, a quality cheap muffler. The original must have got crushed when the bike fell over. Some of those mufflers come with removable resonator, you can probably just buy that and it will get quieter. Congrats on the new shiny You can get a Sena 10c camera+communicator, it functions like a dash cam by constantly recording and overriding own footage.
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Feb 7, 2021 01:50
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T Zero posted:
I can't tell if that muffler is using the stock header pipe or a custom one, but I happen to have an OEM cbr250 exhaust in my attic I can sell you for super cheap. It's just the muffler, so you'd need the stock header. DM if you want.
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Feb 7, 2021 02:49
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| # ? May 21, 2024 18:01 |
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Supradog posted:How big a curb do you hop to get a dent that big in a back wheel? Or is it a hit when leaned over thing? That is a tyre monkey dent.
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Feb 7, 2021 03:15
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