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(Thread IKs: fart simpson)
 
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i say swears online
Mar 4, 2005

Continuity NIP posted:

The United States hasn't ratified the convention on the law of the sea that gives freedom of navigation modern legal force lol

this owns

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Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

https://mobile.twitter.com/CaseyNewton/status/1357135191920152578

Zeno-25
Dec 5, 2009

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

AnimeIsTrash posted:




Speaking of propaganda, lmao.

Ha, I've been getting the Epoch Times in the mail for years and it always goes right into the trash without a second glance because I figured it was some religious garbage

I never knew it was a Falun Gong publication :commissar:

Bathtub Cheese
Jun 15, 2008

I lust for Chinese world conquest. The truth does not matter before the supremacy of Dear Leader Xi.
https://twitter.com/freedomrideblog/status/1357343163573149696?s=20

Horseshoe theory
Mar 7, 2005


So Modi is basically following Indira Gandhi's Emergency? :thunk:

Top City Homo
Oct 15, 2014


Ramrod XTreme

Horseshoe theory posted:

So Modi is basically following Indira Gandhi's Emergency? :thunk:

accidentally on purpose temporary permanent emergency

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

how can we not talk about family
when family's all that we got?

I imagine a bunch of Chinese workers would answer differently

Dreddout
Oct 1, 2015

You must stay drunk on writing so reality cannot destroy you.

indigi posted:

I imagine a bunch of Chinese workers would answer differently

Due to how china has no unified minimum wage that statement is true. It's not in Xi's delegated purview.

But in general the minimum wage consistently rises in china along with both increased costs of living and standards of living.

Being able to consistently have their minimum wages increased indicates that the average Chinese citizen has more control over their government than westerners who face ever increasing austerity.

Bathtub Cheese
Jun 15, 2008

I lust for Chinese world conquest. The truth does not matter before the supremacy of Dear Leader Xi.

indigi posted:

I imagine a bunch of Chinese workers would answer differently

Wages increase at a pace in China unheard of in the neoliberal West.

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

how can we not talk about family
when family's all that we got?

Dreddout posted:

the average Chinese citizen has more control over their government than westerners who face ever increasing austerity.

of course, but the unions crushed during Xi's tenure probably aren't quite as happy about this extremely low bar-clearing fact as most western leftists seem to be

Dreddout
Oct 1, 2015

You must stay drunk on writing so reality cannot destroy you.
The western focus on Xi Jinping as this all powerful confucian emperor is really chauvinistic imo.

In reality the PRC has one of the most complicated systems of delegating power in human history, as befits a state of 1 billion people. Most decisions are made by local party officials/elected officials much like anywhere else

The difference of course being that in china the government officials have final say over the capitalists rather than the other way around.

Dreddout
Oct 1, 2015

You must stay drunk on writing so reality cannot destroy you.

indigi posted:

of course, but the unions crushed during Xi's tenure probably aren't quite as happy about this extremely low bar-clearing fact as most western leftists seem to be

In point of fact union membership has increased by about 60 million during Xi's tenure

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

how can we not talk about family
when family's all that we got?

Dreddout posted:

The western focus on Xi Jinping as this all powerful confucian emperor is really chauvinistic imo.

In reality the PRC has one of the most complicated systems of delegating power in human history, as befits a state of 1 billion people. Most decisions are made by local party officials/elected officials much like anywhere else

I don't think it's chauvinist to believe that if Xi wanted to he could at least cut down on the union busting by regional and local governments. you sit in the big chair you get the big blame. American presidents aren't omnipotent either but we still blame Obama for stuff like not filling that SC vacancy or W Bush for the GFC even though he had very little direct power to do anything about it

Dreddout posted:

In point of fact union membership has increased by about 60 million during Xi's tenure

in point of fact this doesn't mean that other unions weren't crushed :)

Ferrinus
Jun 19, 2003

i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world
it's just a fact that the success of any left faction will necessarily mean the loss and repression of whatever weaker, smaller, and/or less organized left factions were present at the outset but unwilling to play ball with the winner. the soviet union also JAILED marxists!!! (because they were trotskyites or bukharinites or whatever) so of course sanctioned union membership will go up while unsanctioned union membership drops through a combination of disinterest and deliberate destruction

Bathtub Cheese
Jun 15, 2008

I lust for Chinese world conquest. The truth does not matter before the supremacy of Dear Leader Xi.
lock them up imho

Antonymous
Apr 4, 2009

The hourly minimum wage is highest in Beijing and it's 24 RMB/hour which is like $5.50 using purchasing power. Of course its better to use monthly minimum, which is highest at $590 by purchasing power in Shanghai

those are not cheap cities and that's not enough money btw. but like all things china you can point out a flaw now and in 10 years be made a fool, like how the ghost cities and metro stops to nowhere that western media liked to point out now are bustling 5 years later

edit: also the US has some of the worst labor protection in the developed world. or maybe the worst. I can't see how it could be worse honestly. Even China has it mandatory that working holidays means double minimum wage. Did you know the US federally and I think every state have no limit on how many hours you can be asked to work, only overtime stipulations?

Antonymous has issued a correction as of 20:23 on Feb 6, 2021

i say swears online
Mar 4, 2005

Yeah I'm pretty sure my boss could schedule me for 168 hours next week and I'd do my best to make it through

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

*Alan greenspanishly*All I'm seeing here is that the data from China shows that the US minimum wage is much too high.

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

how can we not talk about family
when family's all that we got?

i say swears online posted:

Yeah I'm pretty sure my boss could schedule me for 168 hours next week and I'd do my best to make it through

wow that sucks. thank heavens that I’m in a.... union :c00l:

stephenthinkpad
Jan 2, 2020
The most discussed labor issues in China right now IMO are 996 culture and near mandatory long work hour for some IT and high tech companies, which is kind of similar to the "crunch time" culture in the western gaming companies. And these Chinese code monkeys (or " code famers" in Chinese) get paid really well and if the companies are no doing well they usually don't have long working culture.

So I think the issue is the industries that are engaging in highest level of competition, with lease government oversight and regulations, both domestically and globally, have the worst labor relationship. The other over-work related death I can think of is from a Chinese "Uber eat" company, which again is from the IT industry.

stephenthinkpad has issued a correction as of 21:28 on Feb 6, 2021

Goon Boots
Feb 2, 2020


Antonymous posted:

those are not cheap cities and that's not enough money btw. but like all things china you can point out a flaw now and in 10 years be made a fool, like how the ghost cities and metro stops to nowhere that western media liked to point out now are bustling 5 years later

I'd like to see that actually. I remember the ghost cities but never checked on them. Where can I see how they are doing now?

Not So Fast
Dec 27, 2007


Goon Boots posted:

I'd like to see that actually. I remember the ghost cities but never checked on them. Where can I see how they are doing now?

Global Times did an article on this recently, including the infamous ghost metro stop in Chongqing.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202012/1211265.shtml

Bro Dad
Mar 26, 2010


Horseshoe theory posted:

So Modi is basically following Indira Gandhi's Emergency? :thunk:

why enact sterilization policies for the poor when you can dispossess them and they just die of poverty *taps temple*

stephenthinkpad
Jan 2, 2020
I watched an analysis from the EIC of ThePrint, he basically said the farm bills are pretty much dead, because letting it drag on to upcoming provincial level elections is not good for BJP. Now it's time for Modi and his gang figure out a way to walk back without losing too much face.

The main mistake Modi made with the farm bills was he tried to push them through with kind of a technicality, kind of a cheating during the pandemic lock down, without the full consensus of the congress (they have a different name for their congress since one of the party is called "The Congress").

I see a lot of similarities between the BJP farm bill fiasco and the DPP "ractopamine pork" import fiasco. Ruling parties that just got arrogant and stop putting in the effort.

Maximo Roboto
Feb 4, 2012

Ferrinus posted:

it's just a fact that the success of any left faction will necessarily mean the loss and repression of whatever weaker, smaller, and/or less organized left factions were present at the outset but unwilling to play ball with the winner. the soviet union also JAILED marxists!!! (because they were trotskyites or bukharinites or whatever) so of course sanctioned union membership will go up while unsanctioned union membership drops through a combination of disinterest and deliberate destruction

so much for the tolerant left

Maximo Roboto
Feb 4, 2012

stephenthinkpad posted:

The most discussed labor issues in China right now IMO are 996 culture and near mandatory long work hour for some IT and high tech companies, which is kind of similar to the "crunch time" culture in the western gaming companies. And these Chinese code monkeys (or " code famers" in Chinese) get paid really well and if the companies are no doing well they usually don't have long working culture.

So I think the issue is the industries that are engaging in highest level of competition, with lease government oversight and regulations, both domestically and globally, have the worst labor relationship. The other over-work related death I can think of is from a Chinese "Uber eat" company, which again is from the IT industry.

https://twitter.com/sixthtone/status/1358188896778149888
https://twitter.com/tommy_cleary/status/1328628420108926976

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

the very next section after describing involution as being a result of stagnation caused by a lack of effort the interview jumps right to comparing it to mothers trying too hard to give their kids a better life than they had

the modern definition differs so radically from the classical definition comparing them at all just seems needlessly misleading

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

that article also tried really hard to make the concept seem uniquely chinese and not just capitalism in general but every example given im just thinking uhhh we have that too overthinking the literalism of the expressions used to imply personal failure is really missing the forest for the trees

je1 healthcare
Sep 29, 2015

Chomskyan posted:

“Freedom of navigation” is a phrase the US has been using for a while now, since atleast around the time of Obama and the “pivot to Asia”. I suppose the US is trying to say that it won’t tolerate Chinese policing of naval traffic the South China Sea. Since that is in their eyes, a right reserved only for the US

The US also likes to do this while claiming indignantly that China has “militarized” the SCS.... as the US sails their carrier groups through it

It's not so much the naval traffic that the US (most of southeast asia) refers to, but China's act of constructing artificial islands, planting military bases on them, and then claiming the radius of surrounding waters as Chinese territory. Which is the rationale they now use to claim almost the entire South China Sea as Chinese territory. I'm pretty sure anyone would take issue with someone building a base 20 km off the coast of their country and making overlapping territorial claims

In retaliation for the US "freedom of navigation" patrols, China sent a couple of warships about 12 nautical miles off the coast of Alaska. But no one gave a poo poo, because they were in international waters.

KaptainKrunk
Feb 6, 2006


je1 healthcare posted:

It's not so much the naval traffic that the US (most of southeast asia) refers to, but China's act of constructing artificial islands, planting military bases on them, and then claiming the radius of surrounding waters as Chinese territory. Which is the rationale they now use to claim almost the entire South China Sea as Chinese territory. I'm pretty sure anyone would take issue with someone building a base 20 km off the coast of their country and making overlapping territorial claims

In retaliation for the US "freedom of navigation" patrols, China sent a couple of warships about 12 nautical miles off the coast of Alaska. But no one gave a poo poo, because they were in international waters.

france has a bigger EEZ than china lol

je1 healthcare
Sep 29, 2015

KaptainKrunk posted:

france has a bigger EEZ than china lol

France got to lay claim to Vietnamese territory, it's China's turn.

KaptainKrunk
Feb 6, 2006


Just pointing out that UNCLOS was an imperialist coup. it's no surprise that the countries which benefitted most from it were those maritime powers which grabbed and held onto as many islands as possible, and thus retain access to the 200 nm EEZ. The top 3 big dogs (USA, UK, France) have bigger overseas EEZs than that which is granted by their home territory.

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

dont forget that these rules render the korean maritime border a hot mess of nonsense since south korea holds a bunch of islands within sight of north korea proper that are stupidly far away from any south korean territory that could resupply them

that no one was willing to offer these islands as a concession in the cease fire talks should perhaps serve as a clue regarding which party was dragging their feet on a peace agreement and extending the war for no reason

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
everyone makes a big deal out of China's so-called seizures or intrusions of territory in the SCS, but even if the PRC disappeared tomorrow that'll still leave Taiwan, Vietnam, Malaysia, and the Philippines all squabbling over intersecting and overlapping claims over the same area

it's just China that gets a rap because... well...

je1 healthcare
Sep 29, 2015
....because they've succeeded in forcefully driving out all other claimants in the past decade, whereas the previous status quo had fishermen of different nationalities having to just share the waters and atolls.

What was previously a bunch of squabbles has been resolved with the construction of 7 new Chinese bases in the south china sea. China's moved onto harassing Vietnamese and Philippine fishermen and oil drillers in operating in their own respective EEZs

Maximo Roboto
Feb 4, 2012

Some Guy TT posted:

that article also tried really hard to make the concept seem uniquely chinese and not just capitalism in general but every example given im just thinking uhhh we have that too overthinking the literalism of the expressions used to imply personal failure is really missing the forest for the trees

Sixth Tone is state-funded so they might not want to frame a Chinese problem as a capitalist problem haha

KaptainKrunk
Feb 6, 2006


je1 healthcare posted:

....because they've succeeded in forcefully driving out all other claimants in the past decade, whereas the previous status quo had fishermen of different nationalities having to just share the waters and atolls.

What was previously a bunch of squabbles has been resolved with the construction of 7 new Chinese bases in the south china sea. China's moved onto harassing Vietnamese and Philippine fishermen and oil drillers in operating in their own respective EEZs

they haven't driven them out. a ton of the islands are still controlled by vietnam, phil, malaysia

those bases are to break encirclement and maintain much-needed leverage in negotiations with the US (which surrounds China with military bases)

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007



A big point of the nine dash line is that it goes out of its way to specifically gently caress with Vietnam, something I'm sure the nationalists are big fans of (I assume they're still mad about the sino-vietnamese war that they lost). There aren't any major oil reserves or gas wells or anything like that within the area claimed by China; the only thing that's in that area is shipping (most of it going to one of China's neighbors) and deep-sea fishing. The ability to contest shipping lanes would be a great way to exercise power over southeast asia and turn China's soft power to hard power in dealing with them.

Agrajag
Jan 21, 2006

gat dang thats hot

Grapplejack posted:



A big point of the nine dash line is that it goes out of its way to specifically gently caress with Vietnam, something I'm sure the nationalists are big fans of (I assume they're still mad about the sino-vietnamese war that they lost). There aren't any major oil reserves or gas wells or anything like that within the area claimed by China; the only thing that's in that area is shipping (most of it going to one of China's neighbors) and deep-sea fishing. The ability to contest shipping lanes would be a great way to exercise power over southeast asia and turn China's soft power to hard power in dealing with them.

vietnams claim seems to be weirdly large too

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THS
Sep 15, 2017

why cant everyone share

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