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Coffee? This poll is closed. |
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| Yay! |
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54 | 34.39% |
| Nay. |
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43 | 27.39% |
| O-kay? |
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24 | 15.29% |
| Whatever. |
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36 | 22.93% |
| Total: | 157 votes | ||
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i thought that said Gamera at first and was like hell yeah
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Feb 9, 2021 02:07
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| # ? May 25, 2024 20:11 |
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anyway there are weirdly sexist bits in big anime but this is not really a thing that is exclusive to anime and i often do not really run into it watching currently airing shows, because i generally watch shows that i can believe will not have a significant level of it to bother me with
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Feb 9, 2021 02:12
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verbal enema posted:i thought that said Gamera at first and was like hell yeah Gamera is really neat.
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Feb 9, 2021 02:15
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Gamera is really neat. Gamera is full of meat.
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Feb 9, 2021 02:15
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Endorph posted:and frankly 'correct morals' are something the vast, vast majority of people are not looking for and do not care about when considering what media to consume and enjoy. this does not mean you cant criticize it on moral grounds but you have to realize you're in a minority
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Feb 9, 2021 02:23
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verbal enema posted:Gamera is full of meat. I don't remember what this reference is from anymore 
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Feb 9, 2021 02:27
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Mister Facetious posted:I don't remember what this reference is from anymore MST3K.
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Feb 9, 2021 02:51
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8one6 posted:MST3K. Isn’t it also literally a song from the Gamera movie?
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Feb 9, 2021 02:53
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Larryb posted:Isn’t it also literally a song from the Gamera movie? It's sung to the tune of the Gamera leitmotif, yes.
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Feb 9, 2021 03:01
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 x
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Feb 9, 2021 03:11
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readingatwork posted:Fake edit: Oh! Also the weird way a lot of anime likes to elevate/nakedly profit off of horny shut-in nerds while refusing to examine the toxic aspects of that kind of fandom. There's a lot of parallels to how media deals with "the gamers" here in the US actually now that I think about it. I'd say I've watched countless more that have that examination or self-awareness of what's going on. Mostly because anime and adjacent media are mostly written and drawn by horny shut-in nerds. I think I'd need to ask for specific examples to riff off if you wanted to go anywhere with that
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Feb 9, 2021 03:18
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the topic-starter anime Mushoku Tensei is about a guy who was ostracized by the 'normal' of society until he lost even the connection of his family and his last attempt to reach out to a person ended in his death, thus predicating the show on the suggestion that the only place where he can be happy is in an anime fantasy world. The whole notion of isekai and its upsurge is steeped in awareness of these toxicities, really.
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Feb 9, 2021 03:37
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Mister Facetious posted:I don't remember what this reference is from anymore WE BELIEVE IN GAMERA
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Feb 9, 2021 03:42
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My personal favorite kaiju, but I haven't seen the OG movies since I was like, six.
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Feb 9, 2021 03:47
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homeless snail posted:i hate that googling "gamers season 2" gives you pages and pages of clickbait sites that have Gamers Season 2 Details that say "there are currently no details or announcements for a gamers season 2" so i cannot confirm the veracity of your post... i want to watch gamers season 2 though... 
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Feb 9, 2021 04:12
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Mister Facetious posted:My personal favorite kaiju, but I haven't seen the OG movies since I was like, six. I can't remember which one but Gamera Vs Barugon? I think? The lizard with a knife for a face that dude kicks rear end seriously check out the MST3K Gamera episodes if yiu don't remember them they own also the Godzilla ep is up on Archive.org i havent found it on YouTube which has all MST3K vids on there
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Feb 9, 2021 04:16
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verbal enema posted:seriously check out the MST3K Gamera episodes if yiu don't remember them they own Yeah, a bunch of them are on Tubi, though I keep putting them off for anime. 
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Feb 9, 2021 04:41
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Mister Facetious posted:My personal favorite kaiju, but I haven't seen the OG movies since I was like, six. The 90s gamera movies are great. Among the best kaiju movies ever made I think
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Feb 9, 2021 04:43
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GorfZaplen posted:The 90s gamera movies are great. Among the best kaiju movies ever made I think Yeah I've seen them (and bought the DVDs) back in the day.
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Feb 9, 2021 04:52
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Space Flower posted:I'd say I've watched countless more that have that examination or self-awareness of what's going on. Mostly because anime and adjacent media are mostly written and drawn by horny shut-in nerds. I think I'd need to ask for specific examples to riff off if you wanted to go anywhere with that I'm not saying that *literally all* isekai anime is bad just to be clear. Re:Zero, for example, does a very good job of actually unpacking a lot of the genre tropes and taking an honest look at them. I can also point to series like Escaflowne that do the genre well by just telling a good story and avoiding all the exploitative cringe (the fact that the show is more geared at girls probably played a role in this I suspect). But you have to admit that there's a LOT of bullshit in the genre as well. As for specific examples of series that do things poorly? Here's a few examples that I have in mind when discussing the genre (disclaimer: I'm still working through some of these so it's entirely possible that they get super woke later, though I kind of doubt it): -Slime anime: I kind of like it for a variety of reasons but it still has many of the tropes we're talking about like horny character designs and a nerd who is actually the chosen one because he's good at video games. -Konosuba: Is supposed to be a parody of isekai anime but mostly just does isekai tropes but worse. It's also another case of the main character accidentally doing a sexual assault which should not be this common of a trope. -Goblin Slayer: OK, so it doesn't really have the main character getting transported to another world but still shares a lot of DNA including a world and magic system that basically run on video game logic and girls with redonkulous boobs that undermine the otherwise serious tone the series is going for. Also I feel like I could argue that the GS himself is basically a fantasy version of a shut-in nerd. Digimon: Not the worst offender but certain seasons/games really lean into the fanservicy poo poo. I remember that in Xros Wars they screw over the girl side character by not giving them a top level evolution for literally no reason even though the male side character did. It also has some aggressively horny designs for a kids show -Sword Art Online: So much of what I hate in the genre came from this one. We could dedicate an entire thread to dissecting all the bullshit in it but for obvious reasons maybe the less said about it the better  Also just to be clear I'm not by default against having attractive characters or sexually explicit material. You can certainly incorporate these elements into age-appropriate series in a way that has healthy attitudes about sex and women while feeling organic. However a lot of the stuff I see in anime feels very... exploitative for lack of a better word. It's stuff designed primarily to cater to/turn on teenage boys to generate cheap sales at the expense of other aspects of a show. poo poo like this basically:  Again, this is a game for children. I don't think seeing boobs magically turns kids into degenerates but I *do* think that this kind of thing being so common is a problem and sends some pretty bad signals about women and their role in society and men's lives. At the very least it's indicative of deeper problems in Japanese (and American if we're being honest) culture that need to be addressed at some point. Remember, the same culture that produced Mushoku also produced poo poo like this which isn't exactly uncommon: quote:"If we increase the number of female board members, we have to make sure their speaking time is restricted somewhat, they have difficulty finishing, which is annoying," said Mori, according to Reuters. "We have about seven women at the organizing committee but everyone understands their place." Space Flower posted:the topic-starter anime Mushoku Tensei is about a guy who was ostracized by the 'normal' of society until he lost even the connection of his family and his last attempt to reach out to a person ended in his death, thus predicating the show on the suggestion that the only place where he can be happy is in an anime fantasy world. The whole notion of isekai and its upsurge is steeped in awareness of these toxicities, really. I'm not sure most series are really though (Mushoku certainly isn't)? At least not in a particularly useful way. They seem to be aware that there are external factors that lead to hardcore otaku and shut-in culture (because you are correct that anime tends to be made by people that only ever consume anime) but there's rarely a real societal/class/political analysis of how these people get made, nor any honest look at the real downsides of holding these attitudes. One of the big reasons I hold up Re:Zero as a good isekai is because the protagonist's video game knowledge and lovely "nice guy" attitudes are actually a huge liability and literally get him dumped and murdered on several occasions. No, understanding genre tropes and min/maxing stats would not make you better at surviving in another more "primitive" culture. However telling the audience that directly would kind of kill the escapism of it all so most series aren't really willing to go there. Which is too bad because that's literally the most interesting thing these series have to offer. readingatwork fucked around with this message at 05:00 on Feb 9, 2021 |
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Feb 9, 2021 04:53
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won't somebody please think of the kids the kids: woaaaah boobs this rules haha
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Feb 9, 2021 05:00
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I am about to watch the DBZ Broley movie, I don't have any expectations if it being good
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Feb 9, 2021 05:04
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readingatwork posted:
also readingatwork posted:-Sword Art Online: So much of what I hate in the genre came from this one. We could dedicate an entire thread to dissecting all the bullshit in it but for obvious reasons maybe the less said about it the better quote:Asuna is meant to be strong, but ultimately, she's written as a prize for Kirito to win, or something to be fought over by men. The writing presents her as a strong heroine, but it focuses in very hard on the 'ine' part of that. Distinct, and subordinate, to the hero that Kirito is. quote:Sexual assault isn't used very intelligently. Rather, it's something used as a plot device, something to move the story along when the plot can't think of anything better. The threat of sexual violence is used to present Kirito as a good person and a protector of women without him having to do anything to earn this. who is the brave, intelligent writer who called out SAO like this? quote:- Reki Karahara, the author of Sword Art Online. Oh. I don't disagree that you can criticize stuff, obviously, but I think you're attributing A) way more cultural importance to nerd media that maybe a few thousand people pay any real attention to than it really deserves, and B) way less intelligence and self-awareness to the authors. In addition, what you perceive as misogyny is something some people might just flat out not perceive as misogyny, or even think is feminist. I'm not talking about dudes here, I'm talking about other women affected by misogyny having different opinions on what counts as misogyny. And that disagreement is just natural. Again, I'm definitely not saying criticism is a bad thing you shouldn't do, but if someone isn't calling out what you perceive as misogyny, it's not always because they're more sexist than you or don't care.
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Feb 9, 2021 05:09
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Cheese Thief posted:I am about to watch the DBZ Broley movie, I don't have any expectations if it being good if you mean the actual dbz one from the 90s, well it has some good animation
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Feb 9, 2021 05:09
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Endorph posted:it's actually kinda rad if you mean the super one The new one, yea Super. Ok sweet yea I liked it as soon as I saw the Ginyuu force and King Cold
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Feb 9, 2021 05:25
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Cheese Thief posted:I am about to watch the DBZ Broley movie, I don't have any expectations if it being good
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Feb 9, 2021 05:25
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DBSuper Broly owns
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Feb 9, 2021 05:33
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I like mothra
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Feb 9, 2021 05:35
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Cheese Thief posted:The new one, yea Super. Ok sweet yea I liked it as soon as I saw the Ginyuu force and King Cold the end fight drags a bit long but it actually makes broly a pretty good character and the fighting is still rad
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Feb 9, 2021 06:12
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dragon ball super broly is good for taking broly from a fun character design into like. an actually likable character with his own goofy friend gang yeah
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Feb 9, 2021 06:19
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I like my genre deconstruction, partly this is because it's short hand for "serious show about serious things", but mostly because I contextualize deconstruction(and reconstruction) as basically taking a break from formula. It's different, and most importantly refreshing. But I don't think they have to unpack those tropes, after all literature/media is on some level meant to be escapist, and as Tolkien wrote, "the first duty of a prisoner (of reality) is to escape." I would be fine with any work that was legitimately novel and well written even if it didn't make necessarily any effort to look at the genre it's in "critically". Most isekai bores me because they are not well written and I think on a fundamental level that's the main problem. Just a tower of turtles of boring overpowered (mostly male) protagonists stacked on top of each other forever and ever. In order to filter out bad isekai and try to in general find more enjoyable works I apply the following criteria (where each question that's a "yes" makes me more likely to give it a go): -Is the protagonist female (or genderswapped to be female). Examples: I'm a Spider So What, Black Healer, Bakarina, Eliza Villainness, Youjo Senki, My Disciple has Died Again, JK Haru --Honourable "Isekai Feeling" mentions: Kusuriya no Hitorigoto (Not an isekai, but the protagonist is a sassy deadpan snarker who feels way too modern of a character for the setting) -Does the protagonist actually earn their power in a believable and immersive way --Addendum or is the process in which they earn their power interesting in of itself. Examples: I'm a Spider So What, My Disciple has Died Again -Is it just sorta different?: "I've been reincarnated as a sword" I've only really just started this one, but I understand it the main heroine is the one wielded said sword (I'm not very far in) and the dude is reincarnated as the sword so I figure it might have an interesting dynamic. In short, I think there's a bit of a danger in casually correlating a show's deconstruction-ness with good, I don't think it is necessary for a work to critique the pre-existing context it exists in to be good. It can even very proudly and out there embrace those tropes, the question is if it does so that is entertaining and/or interesting. The protagonist of I'm a spider so what is very much a nerd but it ends up being funny in how she displays it, the main difference is well, she earns her HPs, and her struggles are more interesting for it. At the end of the day, we the audience like these stories for the specific elements of a character going to another world, saving the day and presumably either improving themselves or reaching apotheosis as a result of the adventure, ever since Alice in Wonderland the Isekai has captured our imagination as the ultimate to the point example of escapism. The main character should either be powerful or have a powerful effect, we the audience expect this and also expect and desire for there to be romance that makes us grin like idiots. We the audience want an adventure that ultimately we would like to see ourselves as being able to take part in. But there are some works that are drat good and the fact that they are a deconstruction helps them delivery and hit a home run on the themes they wish to explore, as such, readingatwork posted:I'm not saying that *literally all* isekai anime is bad just to be clear. Re:Zero, for example, does a very good job of actually unpacking a lot of the genre tropes and taking an honest look at them. Have you read JK Haru? It's really good. It also unpacks various isekai tropes but from the perspective of its female main character.
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Feb 9, 2021 06:28
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zzz
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Feb 9, 2021 06:31
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i like isekais where they gently caress
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Feb 9, 2021 06:33
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLRv0b6wJlA
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Feb 9, 2021 06:37
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There's nothing uniquely bad or unworkable about isekais just as for any genre. If you want to extrapolate anything from their prevalence it's not innate character or social flaws of the writer or audience but a reflection of alienation from society and the people around them and a desire for connections irrespective of the position of the character before dying.homeless snail posted:i like isekais where they gently caress True for any genre. chumbler fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Feb 9, 2021 |
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Feb 9, 2021 06:37
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i like isekai where the hot lady sees the sexy pussy and says "i am gonna deconstruct your snatch"
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Feb 9, 2021 06:38
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Maybe it's good thing most shoujo Isekai from the 80's/90's is forgotten by modern fans. Maybe it's a good thing
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Feb 9, 2021 06:39
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two years worth of deconstruction made a glopping noise as it flowed endlessly onto the screen
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Feb 9, 2021 06:39
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I like Otherside Picnic and some people call that an Isekai for some reason
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Feb 9, 2021 06:39
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| # ? May 25, 2024 20:11 |
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i just watch isekai that interest me and only engage with ones that don't by complaining about how they are making up seemingly 90% of seven seas manga licenses
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Feb 9, 2021 06:44
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