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Official e-Tron GT pictures: https://imgur.com/a/d5qv3dHquote:Audi e-tron GT quattro Premium Plus: $99,900 Coming this summer. Unrelated, 2022 Bolt EV (second gen) reveal on Sunday, along with the Bolt EUV reveal.
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Feb 9, 2021 23:08
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The Verge posted:In its US press release, Audi cites a 238-mile range for the standard GT and a 232-mile range for the RS, though those are not official EPA range estimates.
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Feb 9, 2021 23:14
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The Gunslinger posted:A lot of the Model Ys and 2021 Model 3s have been experiencing software and sensor issues with the heat pump as well. I used to be a bit jealous I missed the cutoff for the Model 3 heat pump but now I'm ok with it after reading about all of the issues online. My Model 3 was basically flawless, gaps and all. Yeah, same. I think the summer 2020 build Model 3 I got may end up being one of the more reliable builds. Although I think the heat pump issues will probably be sorted out by the end of this winter, this was the first real test of the technology in the wild so it isn't a surprise.
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Feb 9, 2021 23:24
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Cicero posted:That range seems not so great for such a pricey car. The Taycan Turbo S is $40k more than the RS and get's almost 50 miles less range. I think people buying these care way more about performance than efficiency.
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Feb 9, 2021 23:27
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Indiana_Krom posted:Yeah, same. I think the summer 2020 build Model 3 I got may end up being one of the more reliable builds. Although I think the heat pump issues will probably be sorted out by the end of this winter, this was the first real test of the technology in the wild so it isn't a surprise. I haven't watched all the teardown videos, but the "octovalve" sounds like a pretty amazing thing, transferring heat between the battery back and cabin system. Hopefully long-term it proves to be reliable, and other manufacturers can do something like it.
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Feb 9, 2021 23:33
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The Gunslinger posted:A lot of the Model Ys and 2021 Model 3s have been experiencing software and sensor issues with the heat pump as well. I used to be a bit jealous I missed the cutoff for the Model 3 heat pump but now I'm ok with it after reading about all of the issues online. My Model 3 was basically flawless, gaps and all. VW is really, really trying to hit a price point. I think the heat pump was going to add a few hundred bucks to cost, and that wasn't going to fly. Canada is obviously entirely cold weather climate and I think the US planners were betting that it wouldn't be a show stopper for too many customers in the cold parts of the US. They should have done a Cold Weather package IMO with a heat pump and maybe heated rear seats. I think people in the northeast and midwest would have optioned it for like $1500.
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Feb 9, 2021 23:37
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:VW is really, really trying to hit a price point. I think the heat pump was going to add a few hundred bucks to cost, and that wasn't going to fly. Canada is obviously entirely cold weather climate and I think the US planners were betting that it wouldn't be a show stopper for too many customers in the cold parts of the US. On the electric XC40, the heat pump is a $300 option. That seems really low.
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Feb 9, 2021 23:40
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Westy543 posted:Official e-Tron GT pictures: https://imgur.com/a/d5qv3dH "The new crossover, and the redesigned hatch, will be the last of GM's EVs that won't feature the automaker's new Ultium battery technology." Didn't realize they hadn't put it in a product yet-- assumed it was just a "branding name" for whatever batteries were in it already.
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Feb 9, 2021 23:42
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Qwijib0 posted:Didn't realize they hadn't put it in a product yet-- assumed it was just a "branding name" for whatever batteries were in it already. Nope, it seems to be specific to their new-gen cells/modules.
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Feb 10, 2021 00:12
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Charles posted:I haven't watched all the teardown videos, but the "octovalve" sounds like a pretty amazing thing, transferring heat between the battery back and cabin system. Hopefully long-term it proves to be reliable, and other manufacturers can do something like it. It seems to scavenge to much heat from the battery and gets power limited. There is good improvement in power usage for heat compared to the older model. Seems like something that could be fixed in software pretty easy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqGR6X5Wfhc
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Feb 10, 2021 00:14
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Charles posted:I haven't watched all the teardown videos, but the "octovalve" sounds like a pretty amazing thing, transferring heat between the battery back and cabin system. Hopefully long-term it proves to be reliable, and other manufacturers can do something like it. It's really cool, engineers go nuts over it because it's an innovative and mechanically simple way to accomplish a ton of flow control, especially nowadays when the simplist approach of "bank o' solenoid valves" is the one normally used. Watching some videos it looks like it's an adapted rotary spool hydraulic control valve with a lot more complex porting. As with any hydraulic control valve the dynamic seals are susceptible to wear and failure, but one of the cool things about rotary spools is that the internal clearances limit leakby, especially in a high-flow low-pressure application like this, even if you have seal failure the system should function as designed, just at a reduced capacity. It'd be cool to see it made of 3D printed metal with machined bosses, instead of plastic, but that's the way of things now.
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Feb 10, 2021 00:25
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harperdc posted:Nope, it seems to be specific to their new-gen cells/modules. Was looking for more info and found this spectrum article on it https://spectrum.ieee.org/transportation/advanced-cars/gm-opens-up-a-new-front-in-its-battle-with-tesla-batteries quote:"GM’s 200-kWh pack contains two stacks of modules wired in series for a total of 800 volts, allowing 350-kilowatt fast charging," 166wh/mi seems pretty dang good, hope that actually happens.
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Feb 10, 2021 00:37
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Qwijib0 posted:Was looking for more info and found this spectrum article on it That would be incredibly good. I really hope that happens. That's like 25% more efficient that a model 3 SR+. How could they do that? Less mass sure, but how much better aero can you get?
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Feb 10, 2021 00:46
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Qwijib0 posted:166wh/mi seems pretty dang good, hope that actually happens. My Energica Ego struggles to get that efficiency so no way.
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Feb 10, 2021 00:49
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Charles posted:On the electric XC40, the heat pump is a $300 option. That seems really low. I mean... its nothing but a regular AC circuit with a valve enabling it to reverse the flow. So... I can't imagine the automotive version of such a thing would be vastly different.
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Feb 10, 2021 01:20
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Nfcknblvbl posted:My Energica Ego struggles to get that efficiency so no way. Even half-faired bikes like the Energica Ego don't have great aerodynamics. You need an enclosed fairing designed only for efficiency to achieve good aero on a motorbike.
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Feb 10, 2021 01:47
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stevewm posted:I mean... its nothing but a regular AC circuit with a valve enabling it to reverse the flow. So... I can't imagine the automotive version of such a thing would be vastly different. Oh, well, is it really that simple? I looked it up, I was off by $50, it's $350. "The heat pump acts primarily as a range extender that helps save battery power in the pure electric XC40 Recharge. When it's cold outside, it transports thermal energy from either the ambient air or the battery and releases this energy to heat up the passenger compartment. Heat transport is provided by a compressor, which consumes less energy than the vehicle's standard electrical heater. And by also supporting the air conditioner to work more efficiently, the heat pump helps save electric energy at a temperature range from 41°F to 77–86°F. The heat pump can also help warm or cool the battery to optimize performance and range during long trips or when driving with heavy loads." Looks like it's also part of battery thermal management. Kind of crazy it's an option on a car that starts at $53k. 
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Feb 10, 2021 02:35
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I was drooling over the Volvo V60 Recharge PHEV and realized.. the pure ICE version actually has better mileage estimates at 6.8L/100km (~41.5mpg) vs 7L/100km (~40.4mpg) on the PHEV.. What the heck? Can't find the mileage for the T6 R design ICE version though on their website, it is pretty scant on details.
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Feb 10, 2021 02:41
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When you say pure ICE, do you mean standard hybrid? If so, that's pretty normal, most PHEVs give up gas mileage in exchange for being able to operate 100% electric for some range
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Feb 10, 2021 03:10
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Bone Crimes posted:That would be incredibly good. I really hope that happens. That's like 25% more efficient that a model 3 SR+. How could they do that? Less mass sure, but how much better aero can you get? The most valuable car company in the world has built its entire business model on unsubstantiated claims building unwarranted hype. Let GM dangle a few berries for the folks who pay attention
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Feb 10, 2021 03:50
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Charles posted:Oh, well, is it really that simple? I looked it up, I was off by $50, it's $350. Yeah, that is what a heat pump is.. an air conditioner running in reverse. Instead of putting hot air from inside to out, it runs backwards and takes heat from outside and puts it inside. It is what my home is heated with; they are pretty common in home HVAC. Heat pumps are many more times efficient than a regular resistive heater. A resistive heater (like what many EVs have) is generally 100% efficient, while a heat pump can be in excess of 300% efficient. Took look at it in another way... resistive heaters give you 1 unit of thermal energy for every 1 unit of electrical power consumed. While a heat pump can move 2-4 units of thermal energy for every 1 unit of electrical energy consumed. For an EV this can be a significant efficiency boost depending on conditions. Most EVs on the market use the car's AC to chill the batteries' coolant. (except for the Leaf!) So using the same thing in heat mode to warm the batteries is not far fetched at all.
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Feb 10, 2021 03:55
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stevewm posted:Yeah, that is what a heat pump is.. an air conditioner running in reverse. Instead of putting hot air from inside to out, it runs backwards and takes heat from outside and puts it inside. It is what my home is heated with; they are pretty common in home HVAC. Heat pumps do have some limits and complications that have to be managed as well. Generally they hold up to that 1 unit of power moves 3 units of heat, but that number drops the colder it gets outside. The way it works is the element outside has to get colder than the outside air, so in extreme cold weather if the outside temperature is at or near the lowest possible refrigerant temperature then the best they can do is 1 unit of heat for 1 unit of energy just like a resistive heater. The other area they can have trouble with is because the outside element has to get colder than the outside air for it to move heat, the outside element can freeze up and become completely clogged with condensation and ultimately ice which requires some method of running a defrosting cycle (reversing it back to AC mode for instance makes the outside element heat up, but you lose the cabin/battery heat while it is doing that). Because of that you can't depend entirely on a heat pump for all heating needs in an EV, they will always require resistive heating elements as a backup. That eats into the efficiency somewhat which is why EVs with a heat pump don't recover as much range as a "300% vs 100%" efficiency gain would otherwise suggest. Also you have to respect the science behind heat pumps a bit because they are always working uphill and against the wind. In cold weather they take heat out of cold air and put it into warmer air. In hot weather they take heat out of cool air and put it in to hotter air. The refrigerant is always operating at its extremes.
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Feb 10, 2021 04:21
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pun pundit posted:Even half-faired bikes like the Energica Ego don't have great aerodynamics. You need an enclosed fairing designed only for efficiency to achieve good aero on a motorbike. I get about 110 Wh/mi if I'm not twisting the right stick but it's impossible to ride that thing slow. It's fully faired so the efficiency is greater than its naked Energica cousins. If I'm doing highway riding (80+mph) I get about 180 Wh/mi. It's definitely worth it to ride fast than conserve energy since it's got DCFC at 25 kW.
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Feb 10, 2021 04:43
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Indiana_Krom posted:Also you have to respect the science behind heat pumps a bit because they are always working uphill and against the wind. In cold weather they take heat out of cold air and put it into warmer air. In hot weather they take heat out of cool air and put it in to hotter air. The refrigerant is always operating at its extremes. Yeah, I am always amazed what the heat pump in my home can do. Even at 25F the line coming from the outside unit will be uncomfortably hot to the touch. As it gets colder the heat it gets seems to drop off a cliff though. At 0F the line will be warm, but it's not quite enough and the 10kW of resistive heat strips in the indoor air handler kicks on occasionally to help. Thankfully it doesn't get that cold here for very long! (south-eastern Indiana).
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Feb 10, 2021 05:21
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I got my Model 3 (SR+) at the tail end of last winter and didn't really notice any range issues. This winter was pretty mild until a few weeks ago. Now that we've had extended weeks of -5c to 10c temperatures here I see what people are talking about with winter range loss. The worst day I've seen so far was -13c and incredibly windy, efficiency was so bad I had basically 40% range loss in highway driving. To be fair I am not conservative at all with energy efficiency - I blast the cabin at 22.5c, seat warmer all the way up, charging my phone, etc. Anyways just food for thought if anyone else is getting an EV in a cold climate. Get as much battery as you can if you have a significant commute or be prepared to charge mid-way on really bad days. Thankfully I never really felt like I was going to deplete the battery to zero and the Tesla charging network is all over the place here. I'm trying to figure out how to get my silly phone app to export the kw/h and efficiency graphs I see on other forums. It would be interesting to compare my stats with other people in my area who have the 2021 Model 3 with the heat pump.
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Feb 10, 2021 21:22
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I really want to see if getting the heat pump again on my car gets the GOM to go above 72 miles, but given that they haven't patched a bug that's been around since September, I don't know if it'll happen before spring. If I do just city driving though, I could do well above 100 miles. I'm pretty sure even on the freeway I could do better than 72 miles, but you start to freak out when it gets low. Still have range anxiety 
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Feb 10, 2021 21:32
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The Gunslinger posted:I got my Model 3 (SR+) at the tail end of last winter and didn't really notice any range issues. This winter was pretty mild until a few weeks ago. Now that we've had extended weeks of -5c to 10c temperatures here I see what people are talking about with winter range loss. The worst day I've seen so far was -13c and incredibly windy, efficiency was so bad I had basically 40% range loss in highway driving. To be fair I am not conservative at all with energy efficiency - I blast the cabin at 22.5c, seat warmer all the way up, charging my phone, etc. Anyways just food for thought if anyone else is getting an EV in a cold climate. Get as much battery as you can if you have a significant commute or be prepared to charge mid-way on really bad days. Thankfully I never really felt like I was going to deplete the battery to zero and the Tesla charging network is all over the place here. Do you preheat your car (while on the charger) before leaving? I make it a habit to do that now, and the range loss from the cold is a lot less than you'd think (2018 S75D)
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Feb 10, 2021 21:34
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Wibla posted:Do you preheat your car (while on the charger) before leaving? I make it a habit to do that now, and the range loss from the cold is a lot less than you'd think (2018 S75D) This makes a huge difference. Warming up the battery sufficiently will make up for most of the range loss. Even a 120V AC connection helps. This obviously doesn't help if you don't have an option to plug in before a drive. Edit: The Gunslinger posted:I'm trying to figure out how to get my silly phone app to export the kw/h and efficiency graphs I see on other forums. It would be interesting to compare my stats with other people in my area who have the 2021 Model 3 with the heat pump. Do you have a device that can run docker like a Raspberry pi? Teslamate works great if you want to have the data hosted by your own hardware. Alternatively, there's TeslaFi but I'm not so sure about sharing a Tesla account info with a 3rd party. Nfcknblvbl fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Feb 10, 2021 |
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Feb 10, 2021 21:41
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The Gunslinger posted:I had basically 40% range loss in highway driving. I see this with my 2017 Volt.. I've gotten as low as 24 miles on a charge in some really cold snaps. From 50+ in warmer temps. And that was with the heater on "ECO".
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Feb 10, 2021 21:42
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Wibla posted:Do you preheat your car (while on the charger) before leaving? I make it a habit to do that now, and the range loss from the cold is a lot less than you'd think (2018 S75D) Yeah I did a pre-heat that day and use the Scheduled Departure stuff regularly. It was definitely one of the worst case winter scenarios for efficiency, sustained freezing temps and the wind was totally nuts. quote:Do you have a device that can run docker like a Raspberry pi? Teslamate works great if you want to have the data hosted by your own hardware. Alternatively, there's TeslaFi but I'm not so sure about sharing a Tesla account info with a 3rd party Perfect thanks, I've got an unRAID NAS so I can just grab that docker. Might even be in their community repo already.
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Feb 10, 2021 22:37
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Detailed interior/exterior e-tron GT review by the delightfully awkward Thomas from Autogefühl https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBxJ4Qz6e9w Looks really good. Clearly the underlying machine is just a Taycan but some of the design aspects look better - the Audi interface and the physical buttons look like a better choice.
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Feb 10, 2021 22:55
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knox_harrington posted:Detailed interior/exterior e-tron GT review by the delightfully awkward Thomas from Autogefühl That's a really nice looking car. Looks like even the base trim corresponds to a nicely optioned Taycan (upgraded battery pack, awd, etc.), so the non-RS trims should be a fair bit cheaper than an equivalent Taycan. I wonder how the prestige trim is optioned - might be able to convince my wife to let me go for it. Also, a new bill is being introduced in the house that would restore EV credits to Tesla and GM for another 400k vehicles each: https://mikethompson.house.gov/newsroom/press-releases/chairman-thompson-ways-and-means-democrats-introduce-green-act
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Feb 10, 2021 23:33
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NJ Deac posted:Also, a new bill is being introduced in the house that would restore EV credits to Tesla and GM for another 400k vehicles each: https://mikethompson.house.gov/newsroom/press-releases/chairman-thompson-ways-and-means-democrats-introduce-green-act So for Tesla, that's 2 years tops.
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Feb 10, 2021 23:36
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The Gunslinger posted:Yeah I did a pre-heat that day and use the Scheduled Departure stuff regularly. It was definitely one of the worst case winter scenarios for efficiency, sustained freezing temps and the wind was totally nuts. Oof, yeah that'll do it. The most I've seen is 480 wh/mile in my S, but that was driving through a literal winter storm with a couple of inches of sleet/snow/ice-poo poo on the road (yay  )
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Feb 11, 2021 00:30
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Wibla posted:Oof, yeah that'll do it. The most I've seen is 480 wh/mile in my S, but that was driving through a literal winter storm with a couple of inches of sleet/snow/ice-poo poo on the road (yay I recently took a 150 mile trip in a P3D- in clear conditions at around 10F with only a mild wind and averaged around 330 Wh/mile (18" Aeros, about 50% was freeway @ 75 MPH but overall average speed was 54 MPH), it used almost exactly 50 kWh and ran the pack down from 100% to 34% so my effective range in those conditions was about 225 miles. I'd definitely like to try the same trip over again in summer at around 65-75F outside where it will spend a lot less on climate control just to compare the difference. Where it really takes a hit in consumption is in town shopping trips and my daily in commute which are all less than 2 miles so I never bother preconditioning. I've seen round trip consumption for those short hops exceed 1000 Wh/mile. A big part of why I decided to get an EV was because I was sick of going all these places in winter and never having a warm cabin in the car, and it definitely solved that issue. It is so nice to have a comfortable vehicle without having to burn up 20 minutes of fuel idling the drat thing so I don't freeze for the 10 minutes I have to spend in it every trip. Instant torque is nice, but in winter it takes a back seat to the instant heat.
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Feb 11, 2021 02:15
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knox_harrington posted:I followed a Model S along the autoroute that runs along the east end of lake Geneva last night. It seemed to be having difficulty staying centred in the lane and was braking quite sharply at the speed limit changes. Could it be as simple as someone letting off the accelerator to coast because they only just got their new Tesla?
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Feb 11, 2021 04:51
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NJ Deac posted:That's a really nice looking car. Looks like even the base trim corresponds to a nicely optioned Taycan (upgraded battery pack, awd, etc.), so the non-RS trims should be a fair bit cheaper than an equivalent Taycan. I wonder how the prestige trim is optioned - might be able to convince my wife to let me go for it. Are you only including Tesla and GM because they're the only two making them right now or is ford included in that as well?
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Feb 11, 2021 04:51
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PIZZA.BAT posted:Are you only including Tesla and GM because they're the only two making them right now or is ford included in that as well? They're the only two that have hit the limit of the current tax credit, with I believe nissan being the next closest and projected to hit it within the next year or two
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Feb 11, 2021 05:04
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PIZZA.BAT posted:Are you only including Tesla and GM because they're the only two making them right now or is ford included in that as well? It'll be because there's no longer a EV credit to buy a Tesla and at the least a reduced one for GM. Nfcknblvbl posted:So for Tesla, that's 2 years tops. Wouldnt even be a year now.
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Feb 11, 2021 05:07
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gwrtheyrn posted:They're the only two that have hit the limit of the current tax credit, with I believe nissan being the next closest and projected to hit it within the next year or two Right that's what I mean. Is the credit being extended on all manufacturers regardless of where they individually are or is it only to the ones who've hit the limit
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Feb 11, 2021 05:11
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