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OldMemes posted:If its The Eternity Cage, I liked that one. It's interesting how so much of Big Finish's Time War lore is based on throwaway lines from the show. Yup!
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Feb 8, 2021 15:30
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Davros1 posted:Yup! I'm really enjoying the War Doctor/Ollistra dynamic. Although I'm trying to keep myself from binging, because when I finish the fourth set, there won't be any more  I've also been revisiting the wiki, and even though I've got nearly a complete set of the EDAs, I can't make heads or tails of the Faction Paradox stuff, its so high concept. The EDAs hit a wall when they give the Doctor amensia, keep piling on plot points that are never explained or resolved, then end with a non-ending, but I remember liking some of the more self contained ones. It's like they got bored of the Enemy arc, but instead of properly resolving it, fragments of it were flirted with for ages. It's odd how its still going on today, even though they can't use half the concepts for copyright reasons, and major story beats are in books which haven't been in print for over twenty years! Though they had a cameo in Time Lord Victorious, which was odd, and I'm confused how that legally worked out. OldMemes fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Feb 8, 2021 |
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Feb 8, 2021 16:17
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https://twitter.com/bigfinish/status/1358833297154056193
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Feb 8, 2021 21:53
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Eric Roberts is so much better there than he was in the movie, goes to show what a difference writing and directing can make. Nicholas Briggs telling the story of how he and the writer of the Eye of Harmony argued over how exactly the Eye works and how the story will reconcile plot differences between The Deadly Assassin and other episodes is hilarious. He really cares about trying to keep the franchise's mismash of story ideas, throwaway lines, and implications by dozens of different writers over decades into a logical continuity. I know people like to say that the show has no canon, but its impressive how much of it was kept straight and consistent over the years, especially before they could just check the Wiki. The "no canon" thing made no sense to me anyway, since we can filter out a lot of the stuff which is obviously not canon, either at the time, or retroactively.
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Feb 9, 2021 15:17
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In my headcanon, I always framed it as a "Pair of Eyes". One Eye of Harmony on Gallifrey, one Eye in a TARDIS.
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Feb 9, 2021 15:21
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Davros1 posted:In my headcanon, I always framed it as a "Pair of Eyes". One Eye of Harmony on Gallifrey, one Eye in a TARDIS. I think that was the de facto explanation that's been adopted after the TV Movie.
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Feb 9, 2021 15:26
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OldMemes posted:Nicholas Briggs telling the story of how he and the writer of the Eye of Harmony argued over how exactly the Eye works and how the story will reconcile plot differences between The Deadly Assassin and other episodes is hilarious. He really cares about trying to keep the franchise's mismash of story ideas, throwaway lines, and implications by dozens of different writers over decades into a logical continuity. Yeah that's really gone out the window over the last few years. Trying to reconcile the continuity of the last few seasons of Gallifrey and The War Master with the two different Eighth Doctor ranges has become basically impossible. You don't need any of it to appreciate what's going on in each individual range, but trying to tie them together isn't going to work (for reasons that are largely irrelevant to enjoying any of the stories).
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Feb 9, 2021 15:50
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Just get the 11th Doctor to explain it all: Eleven: Right, so you know those old kaleidoscopes you could get. You'd look through one end and you'd see this beautiful image, a series of seemingly interlinked images that all contained the same world but somehow each slightly different yet encompassing an overall cohesive whole? Dazzling with its beauty, endlessly fascinating to watch the patterns and light as you turned and each fractured part of the whole seemed to travel and shimmy in perfect lockstep with the other? Amy: .... yes? Eleven: Well it's nothing like that.
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Feb 9, 2021 15:56
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Open Source Idiom posted:Yeah that's really gone out the window over the last few years. Trying to reconcile the continuity of the last few seasons of Gallifrey and The War Master with the two different Eighth Doctor ranges has become basically impossible. I'm curious now, what are the big differences?
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Feb 9, 2021 16:20
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OldMemes posted:I'm curious now, what are the big differences? It's the Gallifreyian Presidential succession. So this is gonna get nerdy. Romana is president for the first two seasons of Gallifrey, and after a period of civil war is succeeded by an original character, Livia. Livia, though she's never named, is the current President during Dark Eyes and Doom Coalition, and is explicitly in charge during the chronologically early War Master stories. Thanks to a series of poor choices, Livia's time sees the role of President neutralised into a ceremonial position, and power is handed off to a group of generals and cardinals (the war council, whose most prominent members are Ollistra, Mantus and Rasmus). Romana and her inner circle are systematically taken off the board as the planet descends into a fascist war state. All civil resistance is crushed. The problem is that this seems to happen over the course of two different time periods -- it seems to take place both before the Eighth Doctor has entered the Time War, and after John Hurt has become the War Doctor. And it's not just about a difference in perspective, either, since there's no way the Eighth Doctor would support a regime that was actively trying to kill two of his companions, and their friends -- in fact, he's said to have actively distanced himself from all of Time Lord society during the events of Gallifrey. But, in his own line, those things have apparently already happened, and he's actively supporting them and their presidency. (Also the War Master has a similar problem -- we see him make the decision to actively abandon the war in Gallifrey, but he makes an appearance at a chronologically later date in Ravenous. But in Ravenous, we see Gallifrey accidentally summon up the Ravenous from the depths of Timelord mythology, meaning that it has to place before Gallifrey, since everyone recognises them as a common temporal threat.) It's basically an ouroboros, which would be clever if it weren't a) unintentional and b) frustrating to make sense of. Of course, poo poo like this was always gonna happen when they decided to tell one story from five different interweaving, non-concurrent, non-consecutive perspectives
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Feb 9, 2021 16:52
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Definitely canon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doMFoiZfPvc
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Feb 9, 2021 17:30
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Also Canon, and before the reboot, no less: (Hotel! (2001) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUHiIRXeDKQ
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Feb 9, 2021 18:27
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For me it goes: Canon - TV episodes, Big Finish Semi-Canon - Virgin New Adventures, Doctor Who Magazine Comics. Canon but doesn't matter too much - Past Doctor Adventures novels, pre-Big Finish audios, current series novels. Was once Canon, but diverged - Faction Paradox Not Canon - Eighth Doctor Adventures books, semi-licensed productions, non-DWM comics, Shalka, the Cushing films, Target novelizations, Video Games, Dimensions in Time, sketches where the actors are in character, but break the fourth wall etc, crossovers that can't fit in the standard canon. OldMemes fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Feb 10, 2021 |
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Feb 9, 2021 18:43
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What about the Virgin Missing Adventures, huh? You thought about those?
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Feb 9, 2021 19:47
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the only canon is Peter Cushing's Dr. Who
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Feb 9, 2021 20:51
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Homora Gaykemi posted:the only canon is Peter Cushing's Dr. Who I love how the Day of the Doctor novelisation says that the Cushing films are actually dramatisations in-universe, and the Doctor liked them so much that he took Cushing on as a companion, allowing him to appear in films like Rogue One after his death.
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Feb 9, 2021 22:20
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I've started watching Classic Who, and boy howdy do women only exist for screaming in fear while a man tells them not to be afraid.
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Feb 9, 2021 22:33
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ikanreed posted:I've started watching Classic Who, and boy howdy do women only exist for screaming in fear while a man tells them not to be afraid. Depends on the writer, and the character; Victoria, for example, was always a bit more wimpy than either Polly or Zoe (directly on either side) MrL_JaKiri fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Feb 9, 2021 |
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Feb 9, 2021 22:59
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ikanreed posted:I've started watching Classic Who, and boy howdy do women only exist for screaming in fear while a man tells them not to be afraid. I'm guessing you haven't worked your way up to Leela, Tegan, or Ace yet
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Feb 10, 2021 00:27
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Sydney Bottocks posted:I'm guessing you haven't worked your way up to Leela, Tegan, or Ace yet Literally only episode 3 of The Daleks so far. I felt the need to post because I got to a scene where a thal shows up and says "don't be afraid" and then Susan screams, then he says it again and she screams again. The previous scene was her flailing terrified through the forest, and the one before that was her being told not to be afraid by her teacher.
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Feb 10, 2021 00:35
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It's a 60s thing, it gets better in the 70s and 80s. As for the Virgin Missing Adventures, those are on the same canon level as the Past Doctor Adventure books. The only PDAs which I regard as non-canon are the ones which tie-in into the butterfly crystal skeleton Doctors storyline in the EDAs, or have been replaced by Big Finish.
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Feb 10, 2021 00:37
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Susan is really bad, yeah, despite the potential of the character. Carole Ann Ford deserved better and you can see why she bailed as (relatively) quickly as she did her replacement, Vicki, still has some of that but also gets more chances to be proactive
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Feb 10, 2021 00:42
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ikanreed posted:Literally only episode 3 of The Daleks so far. No worries, sorry if my post came across kind of lovely there.  It is a common criticism that's been leveled at the show, and unfortunately it's not entirely without merit. Thankfully they did work on trying to get that element out of the show, but even near the end they still had "female companion screams the moment there's a hint of danger" with Mel. That's one of the good things about the revived series, I don't believe any of the female companions had those sorts of "screams her head off" moments since the show came back in 2005.
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Feb 10, 2021 00:49
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Sydney Bottocks posted:No worries, sorry if my post came across kind of lovely there. RTD did the inverse in "Rose", when he had some random guy scream in terror after Auton Mickey's head was knocked off, and not the woman sitting beside him. But Louise Jameson had talk about it before, about having arguments with directors, trying to convince them that no, Leela wouldn't scream in terror.
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Feb 10, 2021 01:17
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Janet Fielding tells a great story about JNT telling her that she was hired to "get the dads in from their sheds" and her telling him to gently caress off with that bullshit 
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Feb 10, 2021 01:22
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Ace absolutely WRECKING a Dalek with a bat is one of the best Doctor Who moments, and why Ace is one of the best companions. Plus Sophie Aldred is one of those actors who is always entertaining when she pops up in things - she's the voice of Peter Rabbit's mother in the recent CGI cartoon, so whenever I watch it with a younger family member, its really hard to not hear the character as "posh middle class Ace". Susan is quite an enigma as a character: they play up her alien-ness early on, then never really do anything with it. The Doctor booting her out of the TARDIS is an important character development, and one of Hartnell's best bits of acting on the show, but revisiting Susan is kind of a tightrope walk. She's a very important character to the show's mythos, but the audience has never really been told much about her, and that's for the best. She's an interesting idea, and a cornerstone of the franchise, but one that shouldn't be explored in too much depth.
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Feb 10, 2021 02:05
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Jerusalem posted:Janet Fielding tells a great story about JNT telling her that she was hired to "get the dads in from their sheds" and her telling him to gently caress off with that bullshit Janet Fielding is a beautiful woman and was definitely one of my early teenage crushes back when she played Tegan, but she's also a wonderful absolutely-no-bullshit feminist and I can just picture her saying that to JNT 
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Feb 10, 2021 03:00
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I started listening to the first Paternoster Gang box set...and now I'm really hoping that BF runs a sale of the rest back at preorder prices sometime soon--I lament having not picked up all 4 after how much fun I'm having with the first one.
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Feb 10, 2021 03:58
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Sydney Bottocks posted:Janet Fielding is a beautiful woman and was definitely one of my early teenage crushes back when she played Tegan, but she's also a wonderful absolutely-no-bullshit feminist and I can just picture her saying that to JNT In one of the audios the 5th Doctor catches up with Tegan many years after they stopped adventuring together, and somebody gets it into the Doctor's head that Tegan may have been in love with him. Finally the Doctor gets up the courage to ask her if this was true, and her  in love with YOU!?!?!?!  reaction is a treat.
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Feb 10, 2021 08:58
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I always liked the bit in Ambassadors of Death where Liz is being held hostage by some goons who are clearly nervy about their plans unravelling, and she smirks and goes "don't worry, I won't hurt you." when one of them threatens her.
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Feb 10, 2021 09:33
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jivjov posted:I started listening to the first Paternoster Gang box set...and now I'm really hoping that BF runs a sale of the rest back at preorder prices sometime soon--I lament having not picked up all 4 after how much fun I'm having with the first one. The last vol shipped in Oct, and I still haven't gotten because of the fuckery with the USPS. I haven't gotten any of my Dec stuff either.
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Feb 10, 2021 14:25
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I'm 100% download only with BF. I have too much fandom poo poo from all my other hobbies clogging up my house to want to invest in more physical releases at this point
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Feb 10, 2021 14:40
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DWM this month comes with a free* Target novel!  *not actually free. The cover price has gone up from £5.99 † to £9.99 to cover the cost of the novel. †I feel like this is already very expensive for a magazine.
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Feb 10, 2021 14:48
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Excuse me!Two Owls posted:I always liked the bit in Ambassadors
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Feb 10, 2021 15:58
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OldMemes posted:the butterfly crystal skeleton Doctors I'm trying to make sense of this but my brain won't let me Davros1 posted:But Louise Jameson had talk about it before, about having arguments with directors, trying to convince them that no, Leela wouldn't scream in terror. The producers were probably trying to split the difference with this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKKvHxD_FmI usenet celeb 1992 fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Feb 10, 2021 |
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Feb 10, 2021 17:00
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lol Leela is so cool. 4 really had the best companions. Sarah-Jane, Harry, Leela, Romana, K9, Tegan, Nyssa, Adric.
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Feb 10, 2021 18:39
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Open Source Idiom posted:It's the Gallifreyian Presidential succession. So this is gonna get nerdy. To be fair, it *is* a Time War.
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Feb 10, 2021 19:36
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usenet celeb 1992 posted:I'm trying to make sense of this but my brain won't let me Oh boy, if you're not familiar with the sheer batshit insanity of the Eighth Doctor Adventures, here's a tl;dr version. So the Eighth Doctor finds out that in the future, the Time Lords will have a universe destroying conflict with a group known as "The Enemy". There's a cult called Faction Paradox who want to speed up the start of the war (referred to as The War in Heaven) because they get a kick out of making paradoxes and chaos in time. The Faction start manipulating the Doctor into becoming one of their agents, and infect him with a virus that will mutate him into "Grandfather Paradox". Romana regenerates and tries to figure out who the enemy is to prepare. The TARDIS explodes, but luckily the Doctor makes friends with Compassion, a lady who is a TARDIS, and the Doctor flies around in her head. However, editorial got bored of the War in Heaven story, and decided to scrap novels that would identify the Enemy and properly wrap the story, so Faction Paradox and the Enemy were dropped from the novels and never mentioned again, but spun-off into non-BBC books. The Doctor blows up Gallifrey, and spends 100 years on Earth with amnesia waiting for the TARDIS to regrow, and fosters a daughter from the distant future. When he can travel again, the Doctor gets bored of trying to cure his amnesia and that plot point is dropped. Then his second heart dies because Gallifrey has been erased from the timelines, so he cuts it out, but another guy puts it in his chest for time travel reasons. A new group is trying to take the Time Lord's place in a chaotic, unordered timeline, clearing out the time vortex of life, and killing old companions so that they can trim alternative universes and eat the lack of choices. It turns out they're crystal skeletons who look like the Doctor, and one travels to 1963 and becomes the First Doctor or something. This is never explained. Then it turns out K-9 was plastered behind a wall in the TARDIS all along by Romana, and reveals that the Doctor has the contents of the matrix in his head, and can restore Gallifrey and then something to do with the Doctor's father or something, then the novels end on an unresolved cliffhanger. Big Finish declared in Zagreus that all of this was an alternative to theirs and not canon to their 8th Doctor, and promptly retconned an early mention of a novel companion away. Night of the Doctor confirmed that the Big Finish version is the TV canon version of the 8th's Doctor's adventures. OldMemes fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Feb 10, 2021 |
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Feb 10, 2021 19:47
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Two Owls posted:I always liked the bit in Ambassadors of Death where Liz is being held hostage by some goons who are clearly nervy about their plans unravelling, and she smirks and goes "don't worry, I won't hurt you." when one of them threatens her. Liz was the best; should have had several more seasons with her. Barbara is awesome, but at least she gets to pull off her awesomeness in sweaters; Liz gets to deliver this line in a mini-skirt and impractical boots.
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Feb 10, 2021 19:55
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The_Doctor posted:DWM this month comes with a free* Target novel! And rather than being an actual new novel, it's a collection of the opening chapters of the new novels coming out next month.
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Feb 10, 2021 22:58
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