[Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

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(Thread IKs: fart simpson)

KaptainKrunk: Feb 6, 2006

Atrocious Joe posted:

The Intercept sat for years on the leaked Snowden document that showed Saudi Arabian officials issuing orders to Syrian rebels. It only came out after the war in Syria had shifted enough that it was mostly irrelevant.

Sure. My point wasn't to trust those sources wholeheartedly; it was just that there isn't a preponderance of evidence to make judgments about the facilities, and we've yet to see any independent reporting with serious credibility. All we have are people from organizations known to propagate propaganda echoing the same lackluster source base over and over again.

Of course, the goal was never to convince serious analysts, but to create a cloud of "Xinjiang human rights abuses" that can be employed against China uncritically, with those speaking out contrary to the rickety narrative accused of being useful idiots or mouthpieces.

# ? Feb 9, 2021 21:10

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# ? May 26, 2024 00:31

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

i'm going to quote myself from the marxism thread quoting a friend of mine re: xinjiang because i thought his summation was pretty cogent:

quote:

it's one of those things where there's a coherent argument that the definition of genocide should include what's going on, but if you actually applied it evenly you would find that the uk did several hundred genocides and we are doing like three or four right now. what's going on in western china is bad, but mostly for more mundane reasons of cultural chauvinism, the everyday shittiness of hostile police forces, and various forms of coercing people into participating in the national wage labor market. the government is way more liberal than the public on minority issues in china, and the public in turn are somewhat more accepting of minority cultures having a place in the country than in several neighboring countries. in fact the problem is precisely that they're listening too much to the liberal stuff because they're abandoning the soviet nationalities model and want to build a western melting pot, and are trying to take the most simple liberal criticisms of how the west actually did that and apply it in na�ve fashion: for example they don't want to be seen as repressing islam in general, so they try to identify a good and bad islam, and come up with various theological doctrines and ritual practices associated with each, and layer in judgments about national and separatist identity, which may or may not be defensible in theory, but then when time comes to apply in practice, it means cops and spies caring a lot about whether your mosque conducts services in arabic or some central asian language other than uighur, and getting mad if they can't quickly figure out who someone is quoting or referencing, and a dozen other situations where the details of religious life are not readily legible to the police bureaucracy, generating suspicion and hostility that they're free to take as probable cause or whatever their analogue is. like, they're basically trying to be more woke than us about it, while also doing a hell of a lot more of it and more comprehensively transformative and in everyone's face than we would (whereas the instinct of liberal interventionists when confronted with messy effects from disruptive policies is to minimize things, fiddle with edge cases, target more narrowly), and that generates extreme contradictions

quote:

do we know that maoist and/or bolivarian communes aren�t happening? yes

the situation in inner mongolia is simply that they�re telling the schools where the instruction had been primarily in mongolian language and script to switch to primarily chinese language instruction with mongolian language as a standalone subject. [other poster] is correct in noting that it would still be easy for kids who wanted to retain mongolian language in daily home and community use to do so, provided they have some motivation outside of it being the primary language of instruction. it�s also true that this level of language practice in schools would be a substantial improvement over what other people facing declining languages have available, such as most minority languages in europe, or the non-mandarin chinese dialects. it�s also true what the locals are concerned about, that this is clearly a part of the national policy of reducing the standing of minority language and practice in a top-down fashion. unlike with the tibetans or uighurs, there isn�t even a plausible negative outcome that is being avoided: ethnic mongols are well-integrated in areas where they live with han chinese, and the pockets of people who don�t speak chinese and don�t want to keep well enough to themselves. the choice between primarily mongolian language schools and primarily chinese language schools was already available in most parts of inner mongolia, and people were in the process of increasingly choosing chinese language schools for basically career opportunities. closing off the choice seems to be a pointlessly insulting move, particularly to the teachers who aren�t masters of chinese language use to the extent they are fluent in mongolian, who are facing job losses because the government doesn�t think their language is important. it�s very understandable that they and their allies in the diaspora are very unhappy about it

i don�t like it because i don�t want to be part of an oppressor people but also i think by most objective standards the mongol language and culture is still hugely better respected than, like, irish gaelic in ni. and it�s true that the market economy would have driven the same trends it has everywhere in terms of language use shifting to those dominant in large commercial areas. it�s just you would hope for communism to do positive things about that instead of saying that changing to be more efficient producers is social progress

# ? Feb 9, 2021 21:14

Atrocious Joe: Sep 2, 2011

Maximo Roboto posted:

everyone was issuing orders to the rebels though

Snowden docs began to be released in June 2013, and the document about Syria was from March 2013.
https://theintercept.com/2017/10/24/syria-rebels-nsa-saudi-prince-assad/

quote:

Behind the attacks, the influence of a foreign power loomed. According to a top-secret National Security Agency document provided by whistleblower Edward Snowden, the March 2013 rocket attacks were directly ordered by a member of the Saudi royal family, Prince Salman bin Sultan, to help mark the second anniversary of the Syrian revolution. Salman had provided 120 tons of explosives and other weaponry to opposition forces, giving them instructions to �light up Damascus� and �flatten� the airport, the document, produced by U.S. government surveillance on Syrian opposition factions, shows.

This is how the New York Times was reporting on Saudi involvement in early 2013. It mentions material aid and "advisors," but mostly frames it as countering Iranian aid to the government. The reliance rebel factions had on outside benefactors wasn't as reported in the Western media as it would be in subsequent years.
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/26/world/middleeast/in-shift-saudis-are-said-to-arm-rebels-in-syria.html

quote:

Saudi Arabia has financed a large purchase of infantry weapons from Croatia and quietly funneled them to antigovernment fighters in Syria in a drive to break the bloody stalemate that has allowed President Bashar al-Assad to cling to power, according to American and Western officials familiar with the purchases.

The weapons began reaching rebels in December via shipments shuttled through Jordan, officials said, and have been a factor in the rebels� small tactical gains this winter against the army and militias loyal to Mr. Assad.
...
Many of the weapons � which include a particular type of Yugoslav-made recoilless gun, as well as assault rifles, grenade launchers, machine guns, mortars and shoulder-fired rockets for use against tanks and other armored vehicles � have been extensively documented by one blogger, Eliot Higgins, who writes under the name Brown Moses(lol) and has mapped the new weapons� spread through the conflict.

Like a lot of the Snowden revelations, what he revealed wasn't shocking to people paying attention, but the specifics and the documents themselves forced skeptics to acknowledge what was happening. Having proof the Saudi royal family was directly intervening in Syria for over two years before the Russian intervention began really changes the Western narrative of the war.

# ? Feb 9, 2021 21:18

F Stop Fitzgerald: Dec 12, 2010

Truga posted:

you'd figure that with all the surveillance power ~the west~ has at its disposal it'd be easy to show the genocidal concentration camps, the mass graves, etc. it took like a week for public satellites to find iran's corona graves, and military probably has that data within the hour

instead we keep getting witnesses that are connected to us state dept or falun gong, and a goon pixel hunting mosques on google earth

maybe there is a genocide going on, but i'd like to see some loving evidence lmfao

for this whole thing to work the propagandists have been required to racistly pretend that xinjiang is like NK. some impenetrable region locked away from the rest of the world except for some manufactured glimpses of a massive open air theresienstadt, as opposed to a region known for its booming tourism industry specifically because of its unique culture (which is also being destroyed??)

# ? Feb 9, 2021 21:19

je1 healthcare: Sep 29, 2015

KaptainKrunk posted:

Sure. My point wasn't to trust those sources wholeheartedly; it was just that there isn't a preponderance of evidence to make judgments about the facilities, and we've yet to see any independent reporting with serious credibility. All we have are people from organizations known to propagate propaganda echoing the same lackluster source base over and over again.

I linked to three different outlets using dozens of different sources. Are the interview subjects all lying, or are the outlets fabricating their responses entirely? When the AFP claims to have found public Chinese government documents detailing invoices for bulk orders of torture equipment, did they make it all up?

# ? Feb 9, 2021 21:23

Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

F Stop Fitzgerald posted:

for this whole thing to work the propagandists have been required to racistly pretend that xinjiang is like NK. some impenetrable region locked away from the rest of the world except for some manufactured glimpses of a massive open air theresienstadt, as opposed to a region known for its booming tourism industry specifically because of its unique culture (which is also being destroyed??)

Chinese propaganda exaggerates the allure of places like Tibet and Xinjiang. It's a common trope for young urban Chinese to make at least one trip to Tibet as some kind of bucket list item, a strange thing to think about a place that is by any objective measure a poverty stricken shithole with an inhospitable climate (much like....most of Central Canada). Probably easier and more meaningful to just visit Chengdu.

# ? Feb 9, 2021 21:24

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

je1 healthcare posted:

I linked to three different outlets using dozens of different sources. Are the interview subjects all lying, or are the outlets fabricating their responses entirely? When the AFP claims to have found public Chinese government documents detailing invoices for bulk orders of torture equipment, did they make it all up?

Just say you don't have a good source and move on.

# ? Feb 9, 2021 21:27

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

Some good Uighurs discussion here.

My pet theory about the genocide thing, the US and UK know all along the Chinese government rule Xinjiang with a strong hand, and put Uighurs in borderline Laogai camp, but not really killing any ethnic minority. So the US strategy is pipe on with the genocide accusation and force Beijing to reveal what actually is happening in Xinjiang. And when that happens, the US will point and say "Ah ha! you are still oppressing your minority!"

Beijing knows this that's why they are not engaging in any debate in this subject, unlike the Covid origin WHO investigation.

BTW the force sterilization is not really a moral issue if China still practice population control, but Beijing is moving out of it. So engaging in that discussing is also a lose-lose argument.

# ? Feb 9, 2021 21:50

Not So Fast: Dec 27, 2007

Lostconfused posted:

Just say you don't have a good source and move on.

Again this comes back to "what's a good source here". I'm no fan of Zenz's more outlandish claims, but there seems to be an overwhelming body of evidence that the "voluntary vocational training centres" are effectively prison schools, similar in scope to the Native American boarding schools the US used.

I generally find this article to be a good discussion of each of the different problems the Uyghurs are facing.

http://cpiml.net/liberation/2020/08/chinas-concentration-camps-for-uyghurs-in-chinas-own-words

# ? Feb 9, 2021 22:04

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

As far as COVID comes, the WHO has come out and said it probably didn't originate from a sample from a lab or may not have come from Hubei province, and their current focus seems broadly in South-East Asia. Also, there aren't clear signs of transmission before December 2019 at least in Wuhan.

(As for the lab theory, I think their point isn't just it wasn't just developed in a lab but it is unlikely to have been where the virus was transmitted from.)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55996728

Ardennes has issued a correction as of 22:13 on Feb 9, 2021

# ? Feb 9, 2021 22:07

je1 healthcare: Sep 29, 2015

KaptainKrunk posted:

Grayzone, Intercept, truly independent organizations without a dog in the fight, Marxist news outlets or journals with serious credentials of anti-imperialism who aren't concern trolling or using whatever is happening there for geopolitical ends.

Ok, I found some Intercept articles about Xinjiang's programs. The second interview specifies that there's actually four different types of re-education camps with varying levels of access and abuse:

https://theintercept.com/2021/01/29/china-uyghur-muslim-surveillance-police/

https://theintercept.com/2019/12/29/why-dont-we-care-about-chinas-uighur-muslims/

# ? Feb 9, 2021 22:19

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

Not So Fast posted:

I generally find this article to be a good discussion of each of the different problems the Uyghurs are facing.

http://cpiml.net/liberation/2020/08/chinas-concentration-camps-for-uyghurs-in-chinas-own-words

I feel like, even aside from any specifics, this is a good take on what's going on in Xinjiang that doesn't rely at all on trying to parse which sources are reliable. even just taking PRC's word at face value, it's a very bad, awful situation. maybe approaching "crimes against humanity" territory. and while CNN/buzzfeed/AFP are definitely American imperial propagandists, I have absolutely no trouble believing that Uyghur prisoner-students are being subject to abuse (much like American prisoners are) and that they're buying tasers and batons and whatever.

# ? Feb 9, 2021 22:23

Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

Yes, as long as they oppose Narendra Modi they must also be experts on Xinjiang.

# ? Feb 9, 2021 22:36

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

Not So Fast posted:

Again this comes back to "what's a good source here". I'm no fan of Zenz's more outlandish claims, but there seems to be an overwhelming body of evidence that the "voluntary vocational training centres" are effectively prison schools, similar in scope to the Native American boarding schools the US used.

I generally find this article to be a good discussion of each of the different problems the Uyghurs are facing.

http://cpiml.net/liberation/2020/08/chinas-concentration-camps-for-uyghurs-in-chinas-own-words

None of that answers the original question presented on the last page.

# ? Feb 9, 2021 22:47

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

who cares?

# ? Feb 9, 2021 22:51

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

Everyone.

# ? Feb 9, 2021 22:53

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

seems like their problem, then

# ? Feb 9, 2021 22:53

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

I mind it, I am just here to post.

# ? Feb 9, 2021 22:56

KaptainKrunk: Feb 6, 2006

je1 healthcare posted:

Ok, I found some Intercept articles about Xinjiang's programs. The second interview specifies that there's actually four different types of re-education camps with varying levels of access and abuse:

https://theintercept.com/2021/01/29/china-uyghur-muslim-surveillance-police/

https://theintercept.com/2019/12/29/why-dont-we-care-about-chinas-uighur-muslims/

The first article is pretty good, but not out of line with what we know about China more generally. The second one is mostly an interview with Mehdi Hasan (lol) by someone from the Uyghur American Association, an NED-funded, US-based organization...so yeah.

# ? Feb 9, 2021 23:19

je1 healthcare: Sep 29, 2015

KaptainKrunk posted:

The first article is pretty good, but not out of line with what we know about China more generally. The second one is mostly an interview with Mehdi Hasan (lol) by someone from the Uyghur American Association, an NED-funded, US-based organization...so yeah.

So I guess the Intercept can now be removed from the "doesn't publish American propaganda" list?

# ? Feb 9, 2021 23:25

genericnick: Dec 26, 2012

je1 healthcare posted:

So I guess the Intercept can now be removed from the "doesn't publish American propaganda" list?

Why would you ever think it doesn't?

# ? Feb 9, 2021 23:27

KaptainKrunk: Feb 6, 2006

je1 healthcare posted:

So I guess the Intercept can now be removed from the "doesn't publish American propaganda" list?

Yeah.

# ? Feb 9, 2021 23:29

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

je1 healthcare posted:

So I guess the Intercept can now be removed from the "doesn't publish American propaganda" list?

Did you not read any of the other posts here or something lol?

# ? Feb 9, 2021 23:54

Dreddout: Oct 1, 2015; You must stay drunk on writing so reality cannot destroy you.

Eurasia: My pet theory about the genocide thing

# ? Feb 9, 2021 23:56

je1 healthcare: Sep 29, 2015

Lostconfused posted:

Did you not read any of the other posts here or something lol?

It just seems like somewhat circular logic. We can only trust certain outlets to not fabricate stories of abuse in Xinjiang, but in they event that they *do* publish anything confirming it, it must also have been fabricated. Why did the Intercept side with America's geopolical agenda on just this one issue, but not others?

# ? Feb 10, 2021 00:10

paul_soccer12: Jan 5, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

je1 healthcare posted:

So I guess the Intercept can now be removed from the "doesn't publish American propaganda" list?

it was on a downward trajectory already but the instant glenn-kun left it became indistinguishable from RFE/RFL

# ? Feb 10, 2021 00:10

mila kunis: Jun 10, 2011

je1 healthcare posted:

It just seems like somewhat circular logic. We can only trust certain outlets to not fabricate stories of abuse in Xinjiang, but in they event that they *do* publish anything confirming it, it must also have been fabricated. Why did the Intercept side with America's geopolical agenda on just this one issue, but not others?

there's different journos on the intercept, some of whom are fully on board american policy in syria for example

# ? Feb 10, 2021 00:16

Centrist Committee: Aug 6, 2019

je1 healthcare posted:

America's geopolical agenda

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7n2PW1TqxQk

# ? Feb 10, 2021 00:19

KaptainKrunk: Feb 6, 2006

je1 healthcare posted:

It just seems like somewhat circular logic. We can only trust certain outlets to not fabricate stories of abuse in Xinjiang, but in they event that they *do* publish anything confirming it, it must also have been fabricated. Why did the Intercept side with America's geopolical agenda on just this one issue, but not others?

I don't know about the internal politics of the Intercept, but I can guess that they are trying to establish some sort of faux "neutrality" by sometimes carrying water for USG. See the Hunter Biden story which led to Greenwald's resignation, for instance. It's also a way for so-called Leftists to establish themselves as credible - "See, I criticize Beijing, too! I'm not biased!"

What raised my suspicion in the first place was the nature of the claims: maximalist, hyperbolic headlines about 1.5 to 3 million people in "concentration camps" where they allegedly performed sterilization that then gets watered down to "well, they had guards there, and I felt like they were mentally torturing me!" There's also the BBC video which in translation and editing is journalistic malfeasance.

If the claims were so true, if the evidence was so overwhelming, you wouldn't need to lie.

# ? Feb 10, 2021 00:36

Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

Any English reporting that doesn't lead with "NATO has been arming and training tens of thousands of Uigurs to fight for Al Qaeda and conduct ethnic cleansing in Idlib" is not reporting in good faith. Hope this helps.

# ? Feb 10, 2021 00:57

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

je1 healthcare posted:

It just seems like somewhat circular logic. We can only trust certain outlets to not fabricate stories of abuse in Xinjiang, but in they event that they *do* publish anything confirming it, it must also have been fabricated. Why did the Intercept side with America's geopolical agenda on just this one issue, but not others?

This entire argument is circular. All the stories and links have been posted in this thread before, and they'll get posted some more later I am sure. The whole song and dance will happen again.

# ? Feb 10, 2021 01:14

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

yeah people keep posting �this is genocide� then list sources that show yes it is bad but isn�t genocide and get very upset when that�s pointed out

# ? Feb 10, 2021 01:30

je1 healthcare: Sep 29, 2015

indigi posted:

yeah people keep posting �this is genocide� then list sources that show yes it is bad but isn�t genocide and get very upset when that�s pointed out

I never said it was genocide, I was just responding to a request for primary sources of what camp conditions were like. Which is a weird thing to ask if you're going to accuse every primary source of lying anyway.

# ? Feb 10, 2021 01:42

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202102/05/WS601cba78a31024ad0baa7830.html posted:

Truth and fabrication on Xinjiang's population change
chinadaily.com.cn | Updated: 2021-02-05 11:24

Children play at a newly built residential community in Xinjiang's Kezilesu Kirgiz autonomous prefecture on Sept 20, 2020. [Photo by Wang Zhuangfei/China Daily]
Recently, the population issue concerning Xinjiang Uyghur autonomous regionhas attracted much attention. Adrian Zenz, a German anti-China scholar, in particular, quoted data from unknown sources and made up his research report "Sterilizations, Intrauterine Devices and Compulsory Birth Control: the Chinese Communist Party's Campaign to Suppress the Birth Rate of Uyghurs in Xinjiang". The "report" falsely claims that "the natural population growth in Xinjiang has dropped sharply", and slanders that there is so-called "forced sterilization" in Xinjiang.

The truth is that Zenz makes a living by fabricating Xinjiang-related stories against China. He is a senior fellow at the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, a far right-wing organization established in 1983.

Zenz' "report" is full of fabricated facts and falsified data. He claims that in 2018, at least 80 percent of new surgeries of intrauterine contraceptive device implants in China were performed in Xinjiang. In fact, according to the China Health Statistics Yearbook 2019 published by the National Health Commission, the number of such surgeries in Xinjiang in 2018 was 328,475, and the nationwide number was 3,774,318, which means that the number of Xinjiang's new IUD placement surgeries accounted for only 8.7 percent of the nation's total, and Zenz number is far from accurate.

Decline in the birthrate and natural population growth rate in the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region in 2018 resulted from the eradication of religious extremism, a report released on Jan 7 said.

The report on population change in Xinjiang published by the Xinjiang Development Research Center said extremism had incited people to resist family planning and its eradication had given Uygur women more autonomy when deciding whether to have children.

The changes were not caused by "forced sterilization" of the Uygur population, as repeatedly claimed by some Western scholars and politicians, it said.

For a period of time, the penetration of religious extremism made implementing family planning policy in southern Xinjiang, including Kashgar and Hotan prefectures, particularly difficult, the research center's report said. That had led to rapid population growth in those areas as some extremists incited locals to resist family planning policy, resulting in the prevalence of early marriage and bigamy, and frequent unplanned births.

In the process of eradicating extremism, the minds of Uygur women were emancipated and gender equality and reproductive health were promoted, making them no longer baby-making machines, it said. Women have since been striving to become healthy, confident and independent.

Family planning policies have been fully implemented in the region in accordance with the law, the report said.

In 2017, Xinjiang revised its Regulations on Population and Family Planning, stipulating that all ethnic groups should implement a unified family planning policy allowing couples in urban areas to have two children, and those in rural areas three.

The research center's report said safe, effective and appropriate contraceptive measures are now available to couples of childbearing age in Xinjiang, and their personal decisions on whether to use those measures-which include tubal ligation and the insertion of intrauterine devices-are fully respected. As a result, the birthrate in Xinjiang fell from 1.6 percent in 2017 to 1 percent in 2018 and the natural population growth rate declined from 1.1 percent to 0.6 percent.

The Uygur population grew from 10.2 million in 2010 to 12.7 million in 2018, an increase of more than 25 percent, while the population of Han people in the region increased by just 2 percent to 9 million over the same period.

The report said an increasing number of people in southern Xinjiang were deciding to marry and have children later in life, seeing the benefits of fewer but better births, and the change was due more to personal choice than government policy.

I could see how someone might read this China Daily piece and start wondering whether things might be a little genocidal if they subscribe to mainstream views about genocide in the West.

quote:

"Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

. . .

Killing members of the group includes direct killing and actions causing death.

Causing serious bodily or mental harm includes inflicting trauma on members of the group through widespread torture, rape, sexual violence, forced or coerced use of drugs, and mutilation.

Deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to destroy a group includes the deliberate deprivation of resources needed for the group�s physical survival, such as clean water, food, clothing, shelter or medical services. Deprivation of the means to sustain life can be imposed through confiscation of harvests, blockade of foodstuffs, detention in camps, forcible relocation or expulsion into deserts.

Prevention of births includes involuntary sterilization, forced abortion, prohibition of marriage, and long-term separation of men and women intended to prevent procreation.

Forcible transfer of children may be imposed by direct force or by fear of violence, duress, detention, psychological oppression or other methods of coercion. The Convention on the Rights of the Child defines children as persons under the age of 18 years.

Genocidal acts need not kill or cause the death of members of a group. Causing serious bodily or mental harm, prevention of births and transfer of children are acts of genocide when committed as part of a policy to destroy a group�s existence.

# ? Feb 10, 2021 01:43

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

I�m going to admit something: I�ve never heard �Uyghur� said aloud before so idk how it�s pronounced.

# ? Feb 10, 2021 03:34

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

indigi posted:

I�m going to admit something: I�ve never heard �Uyghur� said aloud before so idk how it�s pronounced.

you can find out on Wikipedia (unlike people in China)

# ? Feb 10, 2021 03:43

Prince Myshkin: Jun 17, 2018

mawarannahr posted:

you can find out on Wikipedia (unlike people in China)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M0CIf0iYDU

# ? Feb 10, 2021 03:48

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

It should be spelt "Weegers". If I don't have google or anto correct, I would not be able to spell it correctly to save my life.

# ? Feb 10, 2021 04:50

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

i had a crush on a girl who went to kyrgyzstan to evangelize to uighurs so i learned to pronounce it extremely correctly in 2004

i say swears online has issued a correction as of 04:57 on Feb 10, 2021

# ? Feb 10, 2021 04:54

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# ? May 26, 2024 00:31

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

i say swears online posted:

i had a crush on a girl who went to kyrgyzstan to evangelize to uighurs so i learned to pronounce it extremely correctly in 2004

Whomstdve among us

# ? Feb 10, 2021 05:05

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

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