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Ytlaya posted:I think that this aspect is a bit less of an ethical dilemma because the alternative if they don't win the war (and this is only being proposed because they feel it's necessary to do so) is "Yeerks are still inside their head, but they have zero freedom, as opposed to the sort of mix of freedom and insane episodes that the oatmeal causes." It's not really making things any worse for the humans unless the alternate is a full victory (and they wouldn't be doing this in the first place if they knew how to achieve that alternative). I suppose, but I would think that they'd naturally be more concerned about humans than Yeerks. And the general line of thinking so far has been that if they can win the war they can free the slaves, that that beacon of hope is always there; in fact Jake's Civil War analogy would be more accurate if, like, the North could have won the war by permanently maiming a lot of the slaves. An ugly yet ultimately acceptable deal in the long run, but... maybe not worth doing unless you definitely think you're going to lose otherwise? More of a tactical cost/benefit analysis than a purely moral choice. Also, I like that (as in many discussions that verge on making the hard choice) Rachel and Marco find themselves allies. Also (end of series spoilers!) there must be thousands or even tens of thousands of Controllers in California at this point, and post-war that would be so... weird! Like being a Holocaust survivor. I don't know why that never occurred to me before; that even though the Animorphs are fighting this secret war that only comes out in the open later on, there are also thousands of other people with direct experience of it.
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 09:31 |
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# ? May 24, 2024 17:30 |
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I guess the other fear might be that the Yeerks find out about the oatmeal hack, and work out a way to synthesis the drug without the side effects. It does seem like this is a much bigger deal than a wacky one book sidequest. Wonder if it ever comes up again.
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 13:28 |
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rollick posted:I guess the other fear might be that the Yeerks find out about the oatmeal hack, and work out a way to synthesis the drug without the side effects. We also know from Erek that Kandrona technology can be miniaturized to the point of being able to hide it inside an android body the size of a teenager, though the Yeerks don't have that kind of technology [yet]. I always figured that was the logical end game of the Yeerks: developing artificial bodies (either androids or cloned organics) that they could 'infest' on blank artificial 'brains' as an interface.
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# ? Feb 8, 2021 20:26 |
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Animorphs-Book 17:The Underground-Chapter 13quote:<This was not easy to figure out,> Tobias said proudly. <Hours and hours of following known Controllers. Then I had to keep stealing peeks in through the windows. I even morphed to human to check out the inside. That’s how I found out about the Happy Meal.> So this book was adapted for the TV series, but in the TV series, they were worried about copyright infringement, so McDonalds was changed to "Tom's Burgers", and the secret password was "A cheeseburger, hold the cheese.", which is a lot less funny. But then, I guess being sued by McDonald's lawyers isn't funny, either. quote:<Once we have our Controller, we follow him in. No problem,> Jake said. Then he added grimly, <Oh yeah, no problem. A little picnic in the Yeerk pool. I’m sure they’ll all buy that.> That's ominous. Chapter 14 quote:Back at Cassie’s barn we gathered around and stared at a small cage. Mole Man is a Fantastic Four villain. quote:<Many of your Earth animals are similar to this in shape,> Ax observed. They're going to dig their way in! Plus, new alien tech....Gleet BioFilter!
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# ? Feb 9, 2021 04:27 |
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Cythereal posted:We also know from Erek that Speaking of Erek, he still faking a human controller and going down into the pool, right? I hope he has some means of fooling the BioFilter, or things would get awkward for him, fast...
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# ? Feb 9, 2021 05:13 |
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Bobulus posted:Speaking of Erek, he still faking a human controller and going down into the pool, right? I hope he has some means of fooling the BioFilter, or things would get awkward for him, fast... Erek's not biological. He's a machine, and a machine that's significantly more advanced than either Yeerk or Andalite technology.. I assume the BioFilter doesn't detect him.
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# ? Feb 9, 2021 05:42 |
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Bobulus posted:Speaking of Erek, he still faking a human controller and going down into the pool, right? I hope he has some means of fooling the BioFilter, or things would get awkward for him, fast... It always bugged me that they never got another Chee to just pretend to be Tom as a controller and rescue Tom to live with the Chee for a while during the invasion
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# ? Feb 9, 2021 06:32 |
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how is it that I remember 'happy meal with extra happy', and the bio-filter but not any of the rest of the book. also I think I'd actually mixed up the Jake gets squashed scene into this book's McDonald's scene
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# ? Feb 9, 2021 11:20 |
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Meanwhile, IRL, the joint was burger king, and the code for "gimme a joint" was "french fries, extra crispy".Terror Sweat posted:It always bugged me that they never got another Chee to just pretend to be Tom as a controller and rescue Tom to live with the Chee for a while during the invasion
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# ? Feb 9, 2021 14:09 |
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Epicurius posted:So this book was adapted for the TV series, but in the TV series, they were worried about copyright infringement, so McDonalds was changed to "Tom's Burgers", and the secret password was "A cheeseburger, hold the cheese.", which is a lot less funny. But then, I guess being sued by McDonald's lawyers isn't funny, either. I distinctly remember this scene and I distinctly remember that when someone uses the codeword the guy's smile just drops and he looks incredibly suss and goes "...it's round back," like he's directing someone to a pedo ring. Other thoughts: - I really remember Ax flipping out and Rachel's line "Ax never yells." Alien castaway earning his retainer, consider him one of the Animorphs in the blurbs you fuckers - "Gleet" biofilter always made me think it was some kind of alien corporation cheerfully selling its tech to both Yeerk and Andalites - I definitely remember Cassie's observation of the mole etc being a "successful shape" tying in with my vague concept of evolution, as a kid. Learning! quote:The "why didn't they ___ with Tom" talk could last all day. The Jake thing worked because that particular Yeerk escaped a boiling Jacuzzi and was already presumed dead. If you just abduct Tom off the street, three days later he has questions to answer when he once again gets abducted off the street into a van by Controllers who want to know where his Yeerk went.
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# ? Feb 9, 2021 15:01 |
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I also remember nothing from this book except the extra happy. Does the DNA filter need both a human and a Yeerk to pass through? If not, the taboo against acquiring humans is getting kind of ridiculous.
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# ? Feb 9, 2021 15:02 |
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Terror Sweat posted:It always bugged me that they never got another Chee to just pretend to be Tom as a controller and rescue Tom to live with the Chee for a while during the invasion I guess the best answer to that is that the Chee are pretty secretive about who and what they are. They only let the Animorphs know because they figured them out. Tom is important to Jake, but not to the Chee, or at least not any more than any other Controller, except insofar as he lives with Jake and could find Jake out. Why risk their identities coming out. Also, the whole process of kidnapping Tom is dangerous for the Yeerk and runs the risk of killing it. Maybe the Chee could talk it into going into a mobile Kandrona emitter, but there's a very good chance they can't, and the risk of its death is just too high a risk.
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# ? Feb 9, 2021 15:04 |
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rollick posted:I also remember nothing from this book except the extra happy. I could swear this isn’t how they work later, but Ax says it is programmed for that specific human being. So somehow the Yeerks aren’t just letting humans in but specific human DNA is permitted to pass, probably just requires a medical scan of the host.
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# ? Feb 9, 2021 16:03 |
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Epicurius posted:I guess the best answer to that is that the Chee are pretty secretive about who and what they are. They only let the Animorphs know because they figured them out. Tom is important to Jake, but not to the Chee, or at least not any more than any other Controller, except insofar as he lives with Jake and could find Jake out. Why risk their identities coming out. Animorphs kidnap Tom, have erek fake his death, let Tom live there for a while. Erek definitely owes them a solid
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# ? Feb 9, 2021 18:11 |
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Terror Sweat posted:Animorphs kidnap Tom, have erek fake his death, let Tom live there for a while. Erek definitely owes them a solid This plan would probably a bit on when in the series it would happen. (very minor spoilers) Up to book 30-something, the Chee's characterization is such that, yeah, they would be willing to go along with plans that result in, e.g., the death of Tom's Yeerk, as long as they're not personally aiding the violence or starvation. After a point, the tone of their pacifism shifts, and they would refuse to be involved at all; later-series Erek probably wouldn't agree to fake Tom's death, because that would do nothing but enable the Animorphs to starve out Tom's Yeerk. You can blame this on the ghostwriting, but given that it ends up being relevant in the finale, it's hard to say it's entirely on the ghostwriters.
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# ? Feb 9, 2021 22:05 |
disaster pastor posted:This plan would probably a bit on when in the series it would happen. (very minor spoilers) Up to book 30-something, the Chee's characterization is such that, yeah, they would be willing to go along with plans that result in, e.g., the death of Tom's Yeerk, as long as they're not personally aiding the violence or starvation. After a point, the tone of their pacifism shifts, and they would refuse to be involved at all; later-series Erek probably wouldn't agree to fake Tom's death, because that would do nothing but enable the Animorphs to starve out Tom's Yeerk. You can blame this on the ghostwriting, but given that it ends up being relevant in the finale, it's hard to say it's entirely on the ghostwriters. I mean, it would seem more likely to me that the Chee recognise that the Animorphs are becoming as bad as what they're fighting and flatly refuse even tangential help.
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# ? Feb 9, 2021 22:30 |
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Epicurius posted:Animorphs-Book 17:The Underground-Chapter 13 That's a pretty bad code, seeing as that's something I have customers actually order from me sometimes where I work (not a McD though)
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# ? Feb 9, 2021 23:25 |
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SirSamVimes posted:That's a pretty bad code, seeing as that's something I have customers actually order from me sometimes where I work (not a McD though) Check the freezer now.
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# ? Feb 9, 2021 23:58 |
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disaster pastor posted:This plan would probably a bit on when in the series it would happen. (very minor spoilers) Up to book 30-something, the Chee's characterization is such that, yeah, they would be willing to go along with plans that result in, e.g., the death of Tom's Yeerk, as long as they're not personally aiding the violence or starvation. After a point, the tone of their pacifism shifts, and they would refuse to be involved at all; later-series Erek probably wouldn't agree to fake Tom's death, because that would do nothing but enable the Animorphs to starve out Tom's Yeerk. You can blame this on the ghostwriting, but given that it ends up being relevant in the finale, it's hard to say it's entirely on the ghostwriters. Nonono, you starve the yeerk out first, then foist Tom onto them so their only option is to shelter him or risk being complicit in his inevitable death
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# ? Feb 10, 2021 00:40 |
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wizzardstaff posted:Check the freezer now. Thats just where you keep the booze
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# ? Feb 10, 2021 04:08 |
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Animorphs-Book 17:The Underground-Chapter 15quote:t turned out to be a toolshed. It was in the backyard of a house that was empty and had a decrepit “For Sale” sign in the weeds of the overgrown front yard. I do sort of wonder why the mole took her so strongly. Rachel is usually pretty good at controlling her morphs. Chapter 16 quote:Down and down I dug. Claustrophobia is very bad if you're a mole. quote:Down I went, down and down. I knew I should be digging a vertical hole, but it was impossible. The mole couldn’t dig that way. The best it could do was slope downward. Once again, these kids' insistance on not talking about their problems.
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# ? Feb 10, 2021 06:23 |
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Man this series just serves up fresh new kinds of horror Though I still think I'd rather do this than dive to the blackest, deepest parts of the ocean
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# ? Feb 10, 2021 08:41 |
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You know, I'm not an expert on underground chambers but I'm pretty sure something the size of the Yeerk pool is probably lined in concrete or something similar and not just bare earth. I don't think a mole can dig through that.
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# ? Feb 10, 2021 09:26 |
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Couldn't they just...dig with a shovel? This feels like the most convoluted plan since getting sucked up by a water intake system as fish.
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# ? Feb 10, 2021 13:11 |
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rollick posted:Couldn't they just...dig with a shovel? This feels like the most convoluted plan since getting sucked up by a water intake system as fish. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a morph opportunity.
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# ? Feb 10, 2021 13:33 |
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Also, fifty feet down with a shovel is no small task, either. The hole would probably need to be larger at the top than the size of their shack, right?
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# ? Feb 10, 2021 14:19 |
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“Wait till it’s your tuuuuurn, nyarco!”
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# ? Feb 10, 2021 21:55 |
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Animorphs-Book 17:The Underground-Chapter 17quote:We got better at digging as we became more experienced. But then we found ourselves running into rocky levels no mole was designed to dig through. We had to figure out ways around the rocks. I guess Tobias and Ax could dig during school. quote:One by one we’d go down that hole. We timed it out so the next person was always in morph and ready to go. Four more days we dug. Till Cassie came back up and said, <I think we’re blocked. It’s solid rock.> So why can't Rachel admit she's scared? Chapter 18 quote:Falling! I mean, gotta laugh so you don't cry, right?
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# ? Feb 11, 2021 03:57 |
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Ugh, I hope Ax can turn off his hoof eating.
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# ? Feb 11, 2021 04:47 |
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I have a whole new attitude towards bats in caves in the COVID era
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# ? Feb 11, 2021 05:35 |
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Animorphs-Book 17:The Underground-Chapter 19quote:“Here. Have a bat,” I said. I held one for Tobias. I wasn’t afraid of bats. I’d been one. We shall fight them on the beaches. We shall fight them with oatmeal... quote:<Excuse me, but what is oatmeal?> Ax asked. There's a famous line from Vonnegut's Mother Night that warns, “We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.” Chapter 20 quote:It was a vertical crack in solid rock. In places it was no more than eight inches wide. At its best it was a foot wide. It's a Yeerk bio-fact quote:<So if we dump enough instant maple and ginger oatmeal in this Yeerk pool, they should absorb it, right?> Jake asked. So that's bad.
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# ? Feb 12, 2021 05:59 |
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I really don't know How The Team Is Going To Get Out Of This Jam. Still, I just love Ax's rather lofty description of zoning out during exo-biology.
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# ? Feb 12, 2021 07:00 |
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Epicurius posted:There's a famous line from Vonnegut's Mother Night that warns, “We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.” Honestly, this series is really all about pretending to be what you're not. The Yeerks pretend to be human, the Animorphs pretend to be animals/Andalite bandits/normal teens, the Chee pretend not to be robots, even the Ellimist is... Well, we'll get to the Ellimist. But even on the individual level, each of the Animorphs except for Tobias and Cassie are putting up a front. Jake, Rachel, Marco, and Ax all have stereotypes they've created for themselves that they deliberately play into, often to a fault—like Rachel refusing to back down from a course of action despite being terrified, or Jake trying to make decisions when he's got no idea what the gently caress he's doing. And Tobias is only exempt from this because he accepted early on that he was living a lie, and was his personal situation (being trapped as a bird, obviously, but more importantly having no real family tying him down to non-animorph obligations) that gave him the freedom to accept that. It's probably telling that Cassie, the one who is the worst liar, is the best at morphing, and whose internal struggle is about living up to her own values rather than projecting a version of herself to the rest of the group, is the only one to truly move past the war and not join the suicide mission at the end.
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# ? Feb 12, 2021 07:37 |
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I feel bad for Ax since it seems the rest of the gang don't always tell him everything that's related to whatever mission they're on. You'd think someone would have told him what oatmeal is in all the weeks they've been digging.
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# ? Feb 12, 2021 08:26 |
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I liked this part:quote:Everyone in a group has a role to play. At least that’s how it always works out. My role was to say, “Let’s do it. Let’s go. That’s what we came here for.”
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# ? Feb 12, 2021 09:13 |
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Epicurius posted:I caught him and grabbed with my tiny but strong little bat feet. Ax and Jake were there in a flash and we flapped madly, hauling him upward. Come on Scholastic, should've caught that in editing. Acebuckeye13 posted:It's probably telling that Cassie, the one who is the worst liar, is the best at morphing, and whose internal struggle is about living up to her own values rather than projecting a version of herself to the rest of the group, is the only one to truly move past the war and not join the suicide mission at the end. Though a big part of that is that Jake specifically asks her not to. IIRC her first instinct is to join.
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# ? Feb 12, 2021 09:22 |
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dungeon cousin posted:I feel bad for Ax since it seems the rest of the gang don't always tell him everything that's related to whatever mission they're on. You'd think someone would have told him what oatmeal is in all the weeks they've been digging. The funnier alternative is that he once again started zoning out during the mission planning.
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# ? Feb 12, 2021 15:27 |
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Bobulus posted:The funnier alternative is that he once again started zoning out during the mission planning. Ax's decision tree 1. Is this about my brother? If Yes, go to 7. If no, go to 2. 2. Can my human morph eat it? If Yes, go to 7 If no, go to 3 3. Is this a word that might be fun to say with a human mouth? If Yes, go to 7, if no, go to 4 4. Do Yeerks need a'killin? If Yes, go to 7. If no, go to 5 5. Is a hot Andalite girl involved? If Yes, go to 7. If no, go to 6 6. Eh, somebody will remind me about it later. END 7. PAY ATTENTION! THIS IS IMPORTANT! End
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# ? Feb 12, 2021 17:15 |
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Animorphs-Book 17:The Underground-Chapter 21quote:I fell. As aggressive as Rachel is, she's smart and knows that violence isn't her solution here. Chapter 22 quote:Fully human, I began to morph again. It's all surface tension. She's too small and light to break the surface of the water, so she doesn't sink. quote:Fortunately, the water did that for me. A swell came along. I felt it well up beneath me, a vast, powerful wave that set me rocketing up and up on its crest. Hunter robot sees her, zaps the Controller....Well, probably not.
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 06:09 |
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# ? May 24, 2024 17:30 |
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I guess she's just hoping the biofilters are only on the entrances? Though I wouldn't have assumed the entrances/exits were one-way. Also the idea of just standing there in the sludge with Yeerk bodies bumping against you is gross gross gross.
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# ? Feb 13, 2021 06:29 |