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So what's the trick to getting clean factory/belt layouts with the way the sphere/grid contracts? Don't build things near the poles?
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Feb 9, 2021 22:08
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Eschatos posted:So what's the trick to getting clean factory/belt layouts with the way the sphere/grid contracts? Don't build things near the poles? build 'horizontally' on/near the equator
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Feb 9, 2021 22:09
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Cobbsprite posted:There aren't any seeds with sulfuric acid oceans in the starting system, are there? The only rare resources which can be present in the starting system are oil (guaranteed on the starting planet) and fire ice (potentially on the gas giant). Everything else you have to travel to another system for.
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Feb 9, 2021 22:21
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'latitudinally'?
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Feb 9, 2021 22:23
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Cobbsprite posted:There aren't any seeds with sulfuric acid oceans in the starting system, are there? Seems to powerful but honestly sulfur isn't really more than an annoyance before you get proper warp logistics setup. I got by fine on like 4 chem plants until green cubes. Then you just need to find a system with sulfur oceans and one with resin crystals and just start importing boatloads of those two and stop worrying about the crappiest branch of the oil subtree.
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Feb 9, 2021 22:28
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mrmcd posted:Seems to powerful but honestly sulfur isn't really more than an annoyance before you get proper warp logistics setup. I got by fine on like 4 chem plants until green cubes. I was so sad that I had to increase the size of my sulfuric acid production before I could finish my infrastructure for making warpers - I know I'm going to just demolish it soon, I can see which system has the acid ocean. Maybe I'll try and convert it into some other chemical lab production instead.
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Feb 9, 2021 23:00
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Manyorcas posted:I was so sad that I had to increase the size of my sulfuric acid production before I could finish my infrastructure for making warpers - I know I'm going to just demolish it soon, I can see which system has the acid ocean. Maybe I'll try and convert it into some other chemical lab production instead. Changing the stone line to plastic will turn it into an organic crystal factory (which takes advantage of the water line) and changing the stone line to carbon will turn it into a plastic factory. Both will result in reduced input and output, so the current belts won't be overloaded by it either
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Feb 10, 2021 00:05
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Gadzuko posted:drat, I was really excited for the upgrade function but it only goes up one level at a time, so if you have a bunch of mk1 crap laying around you need to have mk2 stuff in your inventory otherwise it won't do it. There's no way to go mk1 straight to mk3 for sorters and conveyors. A minor annoyance I guess, I don't want to cart around a bunch of mk2 stuff but I will for now. This is a bit of a bummer but it's better than nothing!
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Feb 10, 2021 00:21
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Unlucky7 posted:I am still on the starter planet, but question about power generation: Is there any real reason to move away from wind turbines if they are almost always running on 100% capacity? I have solar panels and the thermal generator but don't see much use for them on this planet anyway. perhaps if I run out of space and need the extra output? Eventually you will want to move to other forms of generation because wind turbines are quite space inefficient if you use them on their own, you can't get many in a space but they also interfere with laying out production equipment, but there is nothing stopping you doing a combined solar/wind field because wind power is generally better than solar in most locations, you can just get way more solar generators in the same space, so putting wind - solar - solar - wind in a grid patterns is fine. The other reason for the other generators is jesus christ placing that many panels is a pain in the arse. You eventually move onto other power sources just to avoid clicking so god drat much.
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Feb 10, 2021 00:32
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OwlFancier posted:Eventually you will want to move to other forms of generation because wind turbines are quite space inefficient if you use them on their own, you can't get many in a space but they also interfere with laying out production equipment, but there is nothing stopping you doing a combined solar/wind field because wind power is generally better than solar in most locations, you can just get way more solar generators in the same space, so putting wind - solar - solar - wind in a grid patterns is fine. Turning on god mode for building basically negates most of the tedium of clicking solar panels down. Just click x10, shift+rightclick, click x10, shift+rightclick, repeat.
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Feb 10, 2021 01:36
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DelphiAegis posted:Turning on god mode for building basically negates most of the tedium of clicking solar panels down. Just click x10, shift+rightclick, click x10, shift+rightclick, repeat. then realize you've been doign it slightly too fast and the other hemisphere is all just ghost buildings and all your drones are spread out across the globe
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Feb 10, 2021 01:44
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DelphiAegis posted:Turning on god mode for building basically negates most of the tedium of clicking solar panels down. Just click x10, shift+rightclick, click x10, shift+rightclick, repeat. Oh yes but I still need to actually mash the mouse button a lot to get several hundred megawatts of solar generating capacity.
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Feb 10, 2021 01:45
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A way to build 10x buildings in a row would be nice. And also if you could copy/paste a building with all its sorters.
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Feb 10, 2021 01:48
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I feel like just generally if they made, like, a thing where you could plop down a flat platform and then build stuff on it, then you could copy paste the platform wherever with the stuff in-situ. Would also solve the question of variable sphere grids and let you build stuff fully 3d too.
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Feb 10, 2021 01:53
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OwlFancier posted:I feel like just generally if they made, like, a thing where you could plop down a flat platform and then build stuff on it, then you could copy paste the platform wherever with the stuff in-situ. this was the satisfactory answer to "how do you make a grid on something that isnt an infinite 2d plane" and i think its probably the best answer
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Feb 10, 2021 03:19
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Might look pretty ugly but maybe you could gussy it up with some procedural detail work like cities skylines does with its roads. Maybe rather than flat it could just let you create, like, a predictable grid anywhere on the planet, so you get something like the equatorial grid wherever on the sphere you place it. I am curious how they handle the vertical building in the to do list so maybe that's the sort of thing they have in mind.
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Feb 10, 2021 03:32
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Re: just building as stuff gets a shortcut, that is largely what I was doing, until my entire oil production line got stalled because I had too much hydrogen. I've bootstrapped my way into fusion power, though, so I'm hoping that deuterium will be enough of a sink there that the main line works while I start purpose-building other oil projects.
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Feb 10, 2021 03:59
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What is the icon on my on my mining machines mean? It's an arrow pointing down in a triangle
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Feb 10, 2021 04:05
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The other way to resolve the grid issues is if the blueprints just shifted/expanded the blueprint a bit where they don't fit. It won't work perfectly, but it might handle most basic cases. There arr weird edge cases like if you put a splitter on a grid seam you can have unconnectable ports.
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Feb 10, 2021 04:06
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Arcturas posted:Re: just building as stuff gets a shortcut, that is largely what I was doing, until my entire oil production line got stalled because I had too much hydrogen. I've bootstrapped my way into fusion power, though, so I'm hoping that deuterium will be enough of a sink there that the main line works while I start purpose-building other oil projects. Set up a few circles of fractionators and watch your hydrogen evaporate so fuckin' fast... Atheist Sunglasses posted:What is the icon on my on my mining machines mean? It's an arrow pointing down in a triangle It means they're producing less than when originally placed because a veing they were on is running low or has been mined out entirely.
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Feb 10, 2021 04:07
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Anyone else seeing an issue with shift-click opening inventory instead of copying once you're already in build mode? If I exit build mode and shift click it works fine, but when I'm in build mode and shift-click it acts like I just clicked on the building and if I shift-click again it copies after that.
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Feb 10, 2021 04:17
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Arcturas posted:Re: just building as stuff gets a shortcut, that is largely what I was doing, until my entire oil production line got stalled because I had too much hydrogen. I've bootstrapped my way into fusion power, though, so I'm hoping that deuterium will be enough of a sink there that the main line works while I start purpose-building other oil projects. The oil line really need you to build an overflow, and the fact that all the products can be burned in thermal power plants I think is part of why this is the case, the way I usually do it is to run all the products on loops, so hydrogen has a loop, refined oil has a loop, which lets you patch in more X ray crackers as you need them, or switch them over to the other kind if you want more oil/less coal/hydrogen. Then to take stuff off the loop I have a splitter with a single section of T2 belt behind it (the loop uses T3 belts) set to try and push stuff through the T2 belt as priority, with an overflow line on the side that takes anything that it can't get through fast enough and feeds it to the thermal plants. Basically you can use that to keep belts like, half full more or less, which leaves plenty of room for the refineries to feed the belt but also keeps oil/hydrogen available for the X ray process. You can also do it with towers, have it feed into a tower and once the tower is full the splitter will overflow it onto the thermal plants, so you don't end up with the whole thing bottlenecked by one product as your demand varies over time.
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Feb 10, 2021 04:21
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OwlFancier posted:The oil line really need you to build an overflow, and the fact that all the products can be burned in thermal power plants I think is part of why this is the case, the way I usually do it is to run all the products on loops, so hydrogen has a loop, refined oil has a loop, which lets you patch in more X ray crackers as you need them, or switch them over to the other kind if you want more oil/less coal/hydrogen. Then to take stuff off the loop I have a splitter with a single section of T2 belt behind it (the loop uses T3 belts) set to try and push stuff through the T2 belt as priority, with an overflow line on the side that takes anything that it can't get through fast enough and feeds it to the thermal plants. Thanks! That's clever to use the thermal plants as the overflow. I think my initial oil production area was a giant mess because I went straight from refining to cracking, and then added on products afterwards, rather than having cracking at the end and giving myself some outs for surpluses of the various burnable products. I'm transitioning to a more tower-based system, but I think I'll try to use your advice.
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Feb 10, 2021 04:46
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Scaevolus posted:The other way to resolve the grid issues is if the blueprints just shifted/expanded the blueprint a bit where they don't fit. It won't work perfectly, but it might handle most basic cases. There arr weird edge cases like if you put a splitter on a grid seam you can have unconnectable ports. the really annoying one is sometimes a layout that works fine closer to the equator suddenly has the sorters as "too close" when it gets tighter lol
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Feb 10, 2021 05:18
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Scaevolus posted:The other way to resolve the grid issues is if the blueprints just shifted/expanded the blueprint a bit where they don't fit. It won't work perfectly, but it might handle most basic cases. There arr weird edge cases like if you put a splitter on a grid seam you can have unconnectable ports. The solution is to have blueprints stores as vectors, rather than as a grid copy. A connects to B connects to C and it rearranges the intermediate lines and splitters whenever you plop it down. Its a lot of coding work though.
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Feb 10, 2021 05:25
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M_Gargantua posted:The solution is to have blueprints stores as vectors, rather than as a grid copy. A connects to B connects to C and it rearranges the intermediate lines and splitters whenever you plop it down. This won't work for massive setups but what if the foundations feature were changed to use foundations but also let you select "regions" where you have a locally defined grid as if it were at the equator within that region. Though you'd need to figure out how to join that local grid to the global grid at some point.
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Feb 10, 2021 05:50
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Grids could probably be joined easily if you made conveyors less fiddly. I think most of the problems with grids right now is just that they are a bit squirrely about how they handle transitions because they really do not like going very far between nodes, or certain angles which still look visually fine.
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Feb 10, 2021 06:03
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Arcturas posted:Thanks! That's clever to use the thermal plants as the overflow. I think my initial oil production area was a giant mess because I went straight from refining to cracking, and then added on products afterwards, rather than having cracking at the end and giving myself some outs for surpluses of the various burnable products. I'm transitioning to a more tower-based system, but I think I'll try to use your advice. I also end up patching it more cracking and refining as I need to expand and shift the focus of production over time, the real key thing, I think, is just making sure you give yourself lots of space to expand and try to use the loop design for hydrogen and refined oil, because the X ray process needs both of those available and produces one of them back out again. I think the easiest way to do it is to have a conveyor on one side with the raw oil, then a row of refineries running the initial cracking, then a belt of hydrogen and a belt of refined oil looped somehow (splitters or just building a circular belt) and then on the other side of those, put the X ray refineries, and output onto the far side of those with the refiined graphite and hydrogen goes back into the central two belts. You can also do stuff like running graphite and oil on one side and fuel/hydrogen on the other, and then you can fairly easily place either X ray or regular crackers and hook them up to the relevant belts as appropriate. Basically there's ways to not have to plan ahead specifically as long as you plan ahead enough to make the refined oil/hydrogen belts easily extendable.
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Feb 10, 2021 06:08
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Oil is simple enough with 1:2 regular refineries to xrays. Burn all the carbon, turn all the hydrogen to deuteron fuel. Alternately, just stick with oil as the output and burn or ship away all the hydrogen.
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Feb 10, 2021 06:23
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I liked it at first but I'm really struggling to enjoy this game at all. It's so goddamn tedious compared to Factorio, every time I fire it up or tab in I look at how much loving time I have to spend just to automate the most basic things and it makes me not want to play. I'm talking early game too - I've yet to put more than a few hours into a save because spaghetti in this game is just so un-fun because of how tedious building and re-building is. What approach are you guys taking that makes it enjoyable for you?
K8.0 fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Feb 10, 2021 |
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Feb 10, 2021 06:43
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By not rebuilding. There's so many layers available and enough space that you slam down what you need until it's not longer enough then connect more in haphazardly. Then once you get access to Logi towers it becomes much easier to organize and you'll look fondly back on that old base before never touching it again because lol forget about remembering how it worked.
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Feb 10, 2021 06:47
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So, uh, after the patch now I get this error whenever I load a save and try to build or deconstruct something: I have to start a fresh game, don't I?  EDIT: Nevermind, it was an old version of that mass delete mod. Replaced it with a newer version which made that error go away, but now I have to figure out the different controls for the newer mod version. Strawberry Pyramid fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Feb 10, 2021 |
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Feb 10, 2021 07:48
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OwlFancier posted:I feel like just generally if they made, like, a thing where you could plop down a flat platform and then build stuff on it, then you could copy paste the platform wherever with the stuff in-situ. It would be neat if you could select a group of buildings like an RTS and set it as a custom blueprint that modified itself slightly if you tried to put it into a space where the land was a bit funky. If the blueprint just remembered the following, i think that's all it'd need. How many buildings and of which type How many inputs and outputs to each building via sorter Which buildings the conveyors connect to Also it would be great to multi select buildings and set the same product production or input/output filter. I guess the only thing i'm wondering is if these quality of life things (like the upgrade button) massively reduce the length of the game. Some of you are saying that you've spent 70+ hours getting to the end but if we could build and upgrade things enmasse, do you think that time would drastically drop? edit: that'll teach me to to refresh the page an see that others have the same idea. Kin fucked around with this message at 09:56 on Feb 10, 2021 |
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Feb 10, 2021 09:53
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K8.0 posted:I liked it at first but I'm really struggling to enjoy this game at all. It's so goddamn tedious compared to Factorio, every time I fire it up or tab in I look at how much loving time I have to spend just to automate the most basic things and it makes me not want to play. I'm talking early game too - I've yet to put more than a few hours into a save because spaghetti in this game is just so un-fun because of how tedious building and re-building is. What approach are you guys taking that makes it enjoyable for you? The only rework I’ve ever done is to transition some output to logistic towers. I’ve always just let my spaghetti stay there and either do it’s thing or find the output and use it for something else. If it works ok just let it work and focus on something else - the goal is to cage the sun not to perfectly optimize the planet. If you find the spaghetti too distracting to have fun then yeah this may just not be the game for you. The only alternative would be to look someplace like Reddit where people show off their perfectly optimized loops and grab those and run with them.
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Feb 10, 2021 13:48
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It's not that it's distracting, it's just enormously time-wasting. I don't want to go tediously build another set of mining and smelting facilities and belts and sorters and all that bullshit from scratch, I want to optimize throughput from stuff on the first build because building sucks so much. It's just not fun, selecting things is tedious, building them is tedious, connecting them is tedious... it's not good. I don't ever feel like I'm making meaningful decisions in this game, just loving clicking away at worthless bullshit over and over and god drat over. Instead of progression freeing you from tedium, progression just increases the tedium.
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Feb 10, 2021 14:06
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Patch Patch Patch!quote:Hi engineers,
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Feb 10, 2021 14:25
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K8.0 posted:Instead of progression freeing you from tedium, progression just increases the tedium. Yeah, this is about where I'm at also. Blue science phase is alright. Setting up the red and yellow is not too bad. Once you get into the scale and threads needed for purple and green it just is painful. Spending 30 minutes to build a new production line early on feels accomplishing and like you're making progress. Spending 30 minutes late game in building accomplishes generally nothing of significant difference. I built an oil refining array last night to handle two full belts of oil input, it took 4 hours to complete and after realizing how drat long that took, it made the whole game feel like a chore. Then I thought of a "better" way to lay it out, but turbo gently caress redoing all that again without even a barebones blueprint method to copy inserters.
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Feb 10, 2021 14:29
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K8.0 posted:It's not that it's distracting, it's just enormously time-wasting. I don't want to go tediously build another set of mining and smelting facilities and belts and sorters and all that bullshit from scratch, I want to optimize throughput from stuff on the first build because building sucks so much. It's just not fun, selecting things is tedious, building them is tedious, connecting them is tedious... it's not good. I don't ever feel like I'm making meaningful decisions in this game, just loving clicking away at worthless bullshit over and over and god drat over. Instead of progression freeing you from tedium, progression just increases the tedium. That could be just because it's still in early access and more quality of life features for the construction of things is on the way. For me it's a question on whether that would make the game to quick and easy. For example, a handy quality of life addition would be the ability for me to design a smelter/assembler/chemical plant layout and save that as a custom blueprint to reuse when i want more. If you go down the blueprinted route though you have to think about how the resources for that are handled. Either you have all of the items for it in your inventory (which you might not have space for) or you 'reserve' the position on the planet and something else builds it for you once you feed it the raw materials. Out of laziness, I'd prefer the latter option and it would work seamlessly with a logistic station modification where drones built things instead of just carrying stuff about. However, after a certain point, you'd just be flying from planet to planet copy/pasting blueprints and waiting for the drones to build them. Need more iron ore? Paste your iron ore blueprint. If those were features you unlocked later in the game, i could see it getting exponentially faster after that point because if you need more of X, you just paste it somewhere to start getting it.
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Feb 10, 2021 14:47
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K8.0 posted:It's not that it's distracting, it's just enormously time-wasting. I don't want to go tediously build another set of mining and smelting facilities and belts and sorters and all that bullshit from scratch, I want to optimize throughput from stuff on the first build because building sucks so much. It's just not fun, selecting things is tedious, building them is tedious, connecting them is tedious... it's not good. I don't ever feel like I'm making meaningful decisions in this game, just loving clicking away at worthless bullshit over and over and god drat over. Instead of progression freeing you from tedium, progression just increases the tedium. I genuinely do not understand your complaints about this game, especially comparing it to Factorio. To me, Factorio is vastly more tedious. You have to do so much more work to get a decent throughput going, and unless you're using mods to start with bots, it's even slower than in DSP because you have to manually move next to each tile as you're laying buildings and belts down. You also have to worry about stupid poo poo like balancing both sides of conveyor belts, which is utterly pointless busywork as far as I'm concerned. The only thing I'd call tedious in DSP is the oil refinery stuff since it's all incredibly low throughput. Even there, though, once you get the ability to go interstellar, you can use advanced recipes to shortcut your way past most of it.
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Feb 10, 2021 16:50
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optimising throughput from the first build in factorio involves placing like, ten times more miners and smelters just to get raw plates up to speed, and the game uses a bunch of pretty bizarre ratios that force you to way overbuild to get a perfect balance. its only later when you can stamp out giant blueprints and have your bots fill it out that you get away from it, which is something theyre planning for dsp but havnt implemented yet. but if you arent having fun just play something else, why try and force yourself to engage with a game youre not enjoying. the game is similar to factorio, but the fundamental difference is really that you dont need to and really shouldnt be trying to perfect throughput. you can drain a planet of all of its iron with a handful of miners and ship it off somewhere else to be used.
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Feb 10, 2021 17:03
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