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If you’re not having fun because you’re doing too much rework try doing less rework and just let your past work output whatever it can. If you aren’t able to have fun and “let it ride” like that and you also do not have fun with chasing endless optimization then maybe this just isn’t a game for you? If your existing production gives you x and you want it to give you 2x you can just duplicate if somewhere else instead of knocking it down and reworking it to give you 2x.
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Feb 10, 2021 20:26
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I started a one note notebook to keep track of materials in the systems I visit. I make a new page for each star and just paste a screen clipping of the materials that show when you click the planet. (Win + shift + S will bring up the clipping tool if you want to know) I also keep notes about what I’m planning on doing. Started making deuterium on another system. I’m importing the particle container and the production of it just can’t keep up, even though if I used may correctly I’m making 360 a minute.
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Feb 10, 2021 20:33
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Zurai posted:I genuinely do not understand your complaints about this game, especially comparing it to Factorio. To me, Factorio is vastly more tedious. You have to do so much more work to get a decent throughput going, and unless you're using mods to start with bots, it's even slower than in DSP because you have to manually move next to each tile as you're laying buildings and belts down. You also have to worry about stupid poo poo like balancing both sides of conveyor belts, which is utterly pointless busywork as far as I'm concerned. Yeah I find this much faster than factorio, just being able to grab belts and say "all this goes over here now" and run it straight over the top of the buildings, by itself makes it way less tedious. Like you barely have to think about layouts at all you can just patch poo poo in wherever. A GIANT PARSNIP posted:If you’re not having fun because you’re doing too much rework try doing less rework and just let your past work output whatever it can. If you aren’t able to have fun and “let it ride” like that and you also do not have fun with chasing endless optimization then maybe this just isn’t a game for you? Yeah this, just grab the output and run it to where it needs to go, and then patch extra output lines from duplicate manufacturing arrays into it if you need more. If you need more ore to run a section of smelters just junction a new ore line into the side half way down, who cares? It doesn't need to look tidy it just needs to work. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Feb 10, 2021 |
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Feb 10, 2021 20:34
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The fact that sorters take up no space, are arbitrarily long, and are very fast compared to the reactors they serve makes them feel like a vestigial design element copied over from Factorio's inserters. You'll always have one that's fast enough to do the job, there's just an inventory tax to carrying them around and a mental tax to calculating which one is necessary (assuming you don't just go all green with blues for the very small number of reactions that require them) I wonder how different the game would be if reactors just automatically used current sorter rules (so products but not reagents) to pull any resource within three spaces of an input/output port. Output to belts could be handled either by keeping sorters for that one purpose or by changing chests so they instead request an input resource (chests would have belt slots like logistics stations or fluid tanks). You'd probably see a lot more interesting designs like chaining x-ray cracking refineries or multi-assembler product chains instead of the current dominant strategy of single-reaction line factories. Generator daisy chaining could be kept (and made more obvious) by giving them an input side and an output side that visually link together
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Feb 10, 2021 20:36
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OwlFancier posted:Yeah I find this much faster than factorio, just being able to grab belts and say "all this goes over here now" and run it straight over the top of the buildings, by itself makes it way less tedious. Like you barely have to think about layouts at all you can just patch poo poo in wherever. To be honest I find the “let’s just patch this poo poo in over here” aspect to be a fun part of DSP.
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Feb 10, 2021 20:37
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Microcline posted:The fact that sorters take up no space, are arbitrarily long, and are very fast compared to the reactors they serve makes them feel like a vestigial design element copied over from Factorio's inserters. You'll always have one that's fast enough to do the job, there's just an inventory tax to carrying them around and a mental tax to calculating which one is necessary (assuming you don't just go all green with blues for the very small number of reactions that require them) I think it's likely an artifact of it being in early access still, I also don't think that fluid being moved by belts/sorters is the final intended implementation either.
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Feb 10, 2021 20:39
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It seems there's a bug or change with beltbuilding now, you can't have the endpoint over an existing belt (but on a higher plane) anymore when building. You have to go over in one go now and can't make vertically stacked lanes anymore.
Choco Happy Ending fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Feb 10, 2021 |
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Feb 10, 2021 20:40
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Microcline posted:The fact that sorters take up no space, are arbitrarily long, and are very fast compared to the reactors they serve makes them feel like a vestigial design element copied over from Factorio's inserters. You'll always have one that's fast enough to do the job, there's just an inventory tax to carrying them around and a mental tax to calculating which one is necessary (assuming you don't just go all green with blues for the very small number of reactions that require them) Yall really bother using anything other than the top available tier of belt/sorter for everything?
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Feb 10, 2021 20:43
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I use t2 sorters in the smelter arrays just because 
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Feb 10, 2021 20:46
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Eschatos posted:Yall really bother using anything other than the top available tier of belt/sorter for everything? This, setup a line that just makes the best assembler/sorter/belt you have available and never think about it ever again.
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Feb 10, 2021 20:50
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Just automate T3 belt and sorter assembly and never use anything else again. e: ^^
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Feb 10, 2021 20:58
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The upgrade button is so nice.
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Feb 10, 2021 21:08
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Yeah I made an automated T3 Belt/Sorter assembly and have been set for the last like 30 hours of game time. You don't even need a lot of them or take up that much space, I think I have 3 T1 assemblers feeding 3 T2 assemblers feeding 3 T3 assemblers and the chest is almost always completely full when I go to grab some. Edit: ^^ Yeah it is! I expected it to be kinda janky because of a previous poster's complaints but other than needing to have T2 belts on hand to upgrade T1's it's incredibly helpful being able to shift click to upgrade an entire line at once. It's a shitload easier than the "build over the old one" method I figured it'd be.
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Feb 10, 2021 21:09
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explosivo posted:Yeah I made an automated T3 Belt/Sorter assembly and have been set for the last like 30 hours of game time. You don't even need a lot of them or take up that much space, I think I have 3 T1 assemblers feeding 3 T2 assemblers feeding 3 T3 assemblers and the chest is almost always completely full when I go to grab some. Honestly the biggest quality of life thing I could recommend for all new players is to immediately setup a factory that makes buildings and dumps them into storage. Even one assembler for each unique building is enough to keep you supplied forever and doesn't take much time to setup since they almost all share the same components at each tier. People coming from Factorio and Satisfactory will be tempted to try and fly down the tech tree but that's a trap, you end up jerry rigging a bunch of stuff to try and keep up with the unlocks. Instead focus on automating everything early, almost like you're doing the Factorio 111 achievement, everything will go 100x faster/smoother. And then once you have logistics towers you can make all the buildings come you anywhere in the cluster for expansion. MagicBoots fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Feb 10, 2021 |
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Feb 10, 2021 21:25
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explosivo posted:Yeah I made an automated T3 Belt/Sorter assembly and have been set for the last like 30 hours of game time. You don't even need a lot of them or take up that much space, I think I have 3 T1 assemblers feeding 3 T2 assemblers feeding 3 T3 assemblers and the chest is almost always completely full when I go to grab some. Yeah, I initially complained about the upgrade button not going straight from mk1 to mk3 but now I've upgraded all my old stuff and it's fine. I hope they do add that at some point, but if not, all you have to do is carry some mk2 stuff around while you upgrade the old factory. For my conveyor and sorter automation I only have one assembler for each rank. I don't think it runs at full speed, but it doesn't matter because I don't use them up fast enough. Especially sorters.
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Feb 10, 2021 21:58
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MagicBoots posted:Honestly the biggest quality of life thing I could recommend for all new players is to immediately setup a factory that makes buildings and dumps them into storage. Even one assembler for each unique building is enough to keep you supplied forever and doesn't take much time to setup since they almost all share the same components at each tier. People coming from Factorio and Satisfactory will be tempted to try and fly down the tech tree but that's a trap, you end up jerry rigging a bunch of stuff to try and keep up with the unlocks. Instead focus on automating everything early, almost like you're doing the Factorio 111 achievement, everything will go 100x faster/smoother. Even if you just do the basic belts/sorters/assemblers/miners/smelters, you've automated 90% of your building needs, and can hand make the few oil extractors or whatever.
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Feb 10, 2021 21:59
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Gadzuko posted:Yeah, I initially complained about the upgrade button not going straight from mk1 to mk3 but now I've upgraded all my old stuff and it's fine. I hope they do add that at some point, but if not, all you have to do is carry some mk2 stuff around while you upgrade the old factory. Agreed. It probably wasn't quite as bad for me because I had already replaced any Mk1's that were moving any sort of real volume so replacing the 2's is easy as long as you have enough 3's to replace them. It's nice that you get the belts back that you replace because when I was out of 2's to replace the 1's I just upgraded some lines that were still on Mk2 and would get a few stacks to replace Mk1's again. It's janky but so much better than what I was even hoping for.
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Feb 10, 2021 22:04
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Choco Happy Ending posted:It seems there's a bug or change with beltbuilding now, you can't have the endpoint over an existing belt (but on a higher plane) anymore when building. You have to go over in one go now and can't make vertically stacked lanes anymore. Seems to be working fine? Try holding down shift when placing.
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Feb 10, 2021 22:05
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explosivo posted:Yeah I made an automated T3 Belt/Sorter assembly and have been set for the last like 30 hours of game time. You don't even need a lot of them or take up that much space, I think I have 3 T1 assemblers feeding 3 T2 assemblers feeding 3 T3 assemblers and the chest is almost always completely full when I go to grab some. I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but does it mess anything up if you don't have enough belts? Like only do it halfway or just an error saying "Need more belts"? Just it saying you need more would be fine, I know I have some pretty long belts.
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Feb 10, 2021 22:11
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seaborgium posted:I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but does it mess anything up if you don't have enough belts? Like only do it halfway or just an error saying "Need more belts"? Just it saying you need more would be fine, I know I have some pretty long belts. It just stops upgrading when you run out, so it'll do like half the line and not the rest. It's a bit weird because as far as I know there's no way to tell if it ran out unless you're watching your inventory, so I had a couple REAL long belts only get half of it upgraded and I didn't find out until later but the way it works now is fine imo.
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Feb 10, 2021 22:13
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Oh thank god. https://dsp.thunderstore.io/package/thisisbrad/CopyInserters/ I said I wasn't gonna do the modding thing but I'm gonna be using this until they get something similar in game. I don't mind not having blueprints if I can just set up belts and do this.    They're visually glitchy when they get placed but they function, which is what I care most about. Roseo fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Feb 10, 2021 |
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Feb 10, 2021 22:35
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Roseo posted:Oh thank god. Oh gently caress yes that's the good stuff. So much less fiddly clicking.
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Feb 10, 2021 22:44
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to the OP with you!
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Feb 10, 2021 22:51
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Here's another good QoL mod: Starmap Buffs Pin Star With Shift Click: Hold shift while clicking a star in the star map to pin it. Pinned stars will show a "(Pinned)" suffix after their name in the star detail view. Show Star Details On Hover: Mouse over a star in the star map to view its details. This makes it really easy to scan stars for available resources rather than clicking and then scrolling out. https://dsp.thunderstore.io/package/brotchie/StarmapBuffs/
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Feb 10, 2021 22:58
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Is there a mod that makes finding planets easier? Taking off and trying to find the planet in my system that has silicon or titanium with the actual orbital mechanics in place is a pain. Basically a waypoint mod that points out where it is would be nice.
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Feb 10, 2021 23:31
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If you turn on the relevant thing in the details menu at the bottom right, it should mark nearby celestial objects with arrows in the corner of your screen and highlight them when they are on screen. You can mouse over them to show what each one is before you turn to look at it too.
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Feb 10, 2021 23:33
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Gadzuko posted:Yeah, I initially complained about the upgrade button not going straight from mk1 to mk3 but now I've upgraded all my old stuff and it's fine. I hope they do add that at some point, but if not, all you have to do is carry some mk2 stuff around while you upgrade the old factory. also if youre playing fresh its going to be even less noticeable because youll be going 1 to 2, then later 2 to 3 anyway.
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Feb 10, 2021 23:35
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OwlFancier posted:If you turn on the relevant thing in the details menu at the bottom right, it should mark nearby celestial objects with arrows in the corner of your screen and highlight them when they are on screen. You can mouse over them to show what each one is before you turn to look at it too. I have that on and 75% of the time it's super useful. The other 25% of the time I spend 1-2 minutes trying to orient myself. This goes to 50/50 if I'm going to another star system and 25/75 if I'm going to a star system I've never been to and therefore isn't highlighted yet.
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Feb 10, 2021 23:39
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Alkydere posted:I have that on and 75% of the time it's super useful. The other 25% of the time I spend 1-2 minutes trying to orient myself. Yeah it isn't ideal, like, it would be extremely hard to navigate without it but it isn't super good if you're looking for a thing in particular, being able to pick a particular object on the starmap to highlight in a different colour would be better, especially later on when you have multiple systems to think about. Also if the mapmode could give you an idea of how much stuff you have built in a particular system that would be nice.
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Feb 10, 2021 23:57
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I wish we could get rid of a lot of the markers when I warp. It’s hard to know when to stop your warp when there are 20 shipping vessels obscuring the marker.
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Feb 11, 2021 00:09
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So I'm hitting a bit of a slog in my production and I'm not sure if I just have to wait it out or if there's an inefficiency in my setup (i'm still in my first system and researching purple items). Basically, I've been approaching things by building loads of assemblers/smelters, etc. Usually up to about 20 or 30 of them for things that are particularly slow such as the blue/orange chips etc. Is it natural for these to be a huge bottleneck at the moment? Even with that many production buildings and a fully stocked set of raw materials/stacked conveyor, it's causing a chained blockage for the other items resulting in a very slow trickle of purple research. The other thing i was wondering was a general logistics one. On my silicon planet, I've set miners on every ore source and have them all on conveyors joining one another until they form one belt into a huuuge array of smelters I've set up (like maybe 50). The conveyor belt goes in full and without any oversupply jams but gets picked clean before it reaches anywhere near the end of the smelter/sorter gauntlet. In that situation am I pretty much generating smelted silicon bars as fast I possibly can. Splitting them into 2 different factory batches won't actually make a difference, will it?
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Feb 11, 2021 01:13
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Kin posted:So I'm hitting a bit of a slog in my production and I'm not sure if I just have to wait it out or if there's an inefficiency in my setup (i'm still in my first system and researching purple items). 1: I think that's normal for purple research until you start leveraging the items purple unlocks, yeah. 2: Yes, it would. If you're harvesting all the silicon on a planet and you're over the flow rate of the T3 belt, then splitting into more belts (with separate inputs from miners) will increase your total throughput since you're feeding more overall smelters. Combine belts until you basically fill a T3 belt, then don't join any more to that belt; that belt gets it's own array of 30 smelters, rinse repeat.
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Feb 11, 2021 01:17
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It will only make a difference if you also split the ore input. You can jam a thousand miners onto one belt, but that belt will still only deliver a max of 30 items per second.
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Feb 11, 2021 01:19
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That's what I figured. In my situation all of the silicon inputs just fill up a tier 3 belt and I've got 3 miners on each node at least. My home system really does feel like it's been gimped a bit by that.
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Feb 11, 2021 01:22
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Kin posted:So I'm hitting a bit of a slog in my production and I'm not sure if I just have to wait it out or if there's an inefficiency in my setup (i'm still in my first system and researching purple items). What do you mean a blockage? As in you can't produce fast enough with 30 fabricators? I would say that should be more than sufficient even with really basic fabricators for anything requiring any of the coloured researches, you only need bigger than that when you're doing infinite white research. Kin posted:The other thing i was wondering was a general logistics one. What that means is your smelter array is eating silicon ore faster than the belt can transfer it, but it doesn't necessarily mean it is the fastest you can do. If the belt is jam packed by the time it gets to the smelters it may be that some of your miners are backed up, especially if you have the whole planet linked to one belt because that's a lot of ore, in which case you could accelerate production by adding a parallel belt to move ore from those miners and insert it partway through the smelter array, because the smelters at the far end of the array won't be doing any work if the belt is empty before it reaches them. Basically each tier of belt can only support a certain number of smelters in sequence before you need to add another belt to increase raw material throughput (and this number will vary depending on the smelting operation, each type of smelting uses different amounts of ore per cycle and cycles at different rates) This is easier to do with logistics towers because they can output many belts simultaneously and can also receive ores very quickly too from logsitics drones and ships. Even if your miners are producing, if the ore is right up to the miner then it can probably produce slightly faster if you add another belt. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Feb 11, 2021 |
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Feb 11, 2021 01:22
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OwlFancier posted:What do you mean a blockage? As in you can't produce fast enough with 30 fabricators? I would say that should be more than sufficient even with really basic fabricators for anything requiring any of the coloured researches, you only need bigger than that when you're doing infinite white research. Yeah pretty much I can't produce fast enough and that item then holds up the production of another etc. I think it might be a combination of both my questions, now I've been digging into it A shortage of silicon which is curbing the production of some items and a gap or two in my production chain where I've got too few assemblers, which is holding up that items mass production. It looks like I overlooked a step out two and there's some materials I'm only using 10 or so assemblers to produce. Kin fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Feb 11, 2021 |
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Feb 11, 2021 01:33
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If you don’t know, you can overlap miners (have multiple miners harvesting from one clump). As expected, it’ll increase your throughput but deplete the node quicker.
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Feb 11, 2021 01:36
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Kin posted:Yeah pretty much I can't produce fast enough and that item then holds up the production of another etc. I guess specifically you do need a very large amount of fabricators to make plane filters, plane filters do produce weirdly slower than other things and are needed for blue chips, I think, and it is true that chips are a thing you need a huge amount of and do eat a lot of silicon, but that's also about the time when you want to be looking at setting up interstellar logistics to supply gigantic amounts of raw materials.
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Feb 11, 2021 01:41
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Yeah, they kinda make your first system not super amazing (unless you get some good RNG or use someone's seed), so that you go explore the universe and make shipping lanes. Kick off your first system, find something cooler.
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Feb 11, 2021 01:44
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Yeah more or less as soon as I could I went one system over and found that it was absolutely loaded with stuff and just went "gently caress this poo poo I'm out" and left the starter system to build a nice new factory with all T3 stuff. My hint is try blue stars, they're hotter, bigger, and generally seem to have much better planets and more resources, also get somewhere with oil because you need oil for everything and you can't skip past it easily and also it never runs out so it's a long term investment.
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Feb 11, 2021 01:57
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