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Thanks for all the helpful tips folks. I researched and built a tank and a load of poison capsules and boy, was it worth it. I hated the car for combat because it was so squishy and hard to control and kept damaging itself on trees; now I have transcended such problems. Also I finally built a logistics network. Basically the game just got a whole lot more fun!
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Feb 10, 2021 15:12
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Maugrim posted:Thanks for all the helpful tips folks. I researched and built a tank and a load of poison capsules and boy, was it worth it. I hated the car for combat because it was so squishy and hard to control and kept damaging itself on trees; now I have transcended such problems. Yup, poison caps were the game changer for biter clearance for me. Confession: still haven't built my promised oil outpost. I have an excuse at least. Refined my existing one and hooked up coal liquefaction to at least keep it running at a minimum (and to consume some of my multiple full storage chests of wood), promptly hit a copper barrier as soon as I started getting plastic again. That and some weird train logic thanks to running everything off handmade automation instead of LTN. So bolstering copper production before I expand oil again. At least circuits seem to be my only bottleneck now. Also had the game on hold a few days because Factorio shreds my sleep schedule.
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Feb 10, 2021 15:54
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Is it better to have my polution creating elements relatively close together? I just put up my electricity grid but my boiler/steam engine is rather far away from my miners/forges. I was thinking of making pipe to bring the water over so I can have the generator closer to me if and when biters come knocking.
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Feb 10, 2021 21:53
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Unlucky7 posted:Is it better to have my polution creating elements relatively close together? I just put up my electricity grid but my boiler/steam engine is rather far away from my miners/forges. I was thinking of making pipe to bring the water over so I can have the generator closer to me if and when biters come knocking. Doesn't matter. All that matters in the early-game is that you try to keep a pollution consumer (trees) between you and the biters. If your pollution cloud reaches a nest, you should go kill it. You should continue doing that until you have full-coverage walls that have automated resupply, because that's the first point when you don't have to be worried about pollution-triggered attacks.
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Feb 10, 2021 22:18
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What are some good blueprint books to use? Thinking of going for the no spoon achievement.
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Feb 10, 2021 23:20
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Taffer posted:Doesn't matter. All that matters in the early-game is that you try to keep a pollution consumer (trees) between you and the biters. If your pollution cloud reaches a nest, you should go kill it. You should continue doing that until you have full-coverage walls that have automated resupply, because that's the first point when you don't have to be worried about pollution-triggered attacks. I do have trees around my miners so I think I should try to move my boiler. Or am I thinking too much?
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Feb 10, 2021 23:39
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My first game I went super pollution and it really showed, the cloud was huge. Boilers are the worst for it too. Get on solar, if your really having trouble with it.
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Feb 10, 2021 23:44
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Unlucky7 posted:I do have trees around my miners so I think I should try to move my boiler. Or am I thinking too much? You are way overthinking this. Do what seems fun. Default settings Factorio is not some ultra-difficult challenge where you'll be wiped out by biters if you place one building sub-optimally. You do need to make sure you're always keeping up on military tech and preferably keeping your cloud clean until you have good automated defenses established, but those are actually much bigger concerns for a veteran player, who might prefer a desert start and efficiently crank out exponentially scaling production, resulting in a massive pollution cloud very quick which means many biters. The last default settings forest start I did, I deliberately didn't clear out biter nests early game, and I didn't get attacked until like 5 hours in when I was more than equipped to handle it.
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Feb 11, 2021 00:06
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Yeah, sorry about that. I think every time I try this game I get nerves about defense and blitz the thread with questions about it.
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Feb 11, 2021 01:12
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Just put up a wall if your scared of biters at the start, you don't even need turrets at the start. Them attacking the walls will let you know their coming.
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Feb 11, 2021 01:13
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Unlucky7 posted:Yeah, sorry about that. I think every time I try this game I get nerves about defense and blitz the thread with questions about it. One option is to disable biter expansion, reduce or remove their scaling based on time and/or pollution, and increase their evolution based on how many you kill. That way they will only evolve as you expand, rather than getting stronger over time and as your factory increases in size.
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Feb 11, 2021 01:24
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My attempts to convince robots to automatically pave a multicolor nightmare pukescape have been far more successful than I ever dreamed And now I'm going to frantically go undo that because jesus christ my eyes.
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Feb 11, 2021 01:42
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Unlucky7 posted:Yeah, sorry about that. I think every time I try this game I get nerves about defense and blitz the thread with questions about it. The questions are okay! But also my advice is to turn off biters and launch a rocket without them so you get a feel for what the game is before you tie yourself up in knots over these dang bugs.
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Feb 11, 2021 01:42
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power crystals posted:My attempts to convince robots to automatically pave a multicolor nightmare pukescape have been far more successful than I ever dreamed Are you sure your video card isn't somehow on fire 
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Feb 11, 2021 01:48
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Unlucky7 posted:Are you sure your video card isn't somehow on fire The worst part is that he's playing multiplayer, and did this to his friends
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Feb 11, 2021 01:49
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power crystals posted:My attempts to convince robots to automatically pave a multicolor nightmare pukescape have been far more successful than I ever dreamed Power crystals only had to suffer this for half an hour. I've had to live it with all afternoon, and believe me, it only gets worse the longer you stare at it! StrixNebulosa posted:The worst part is that he's playing multiplayer, and did this to his friends This still isn't the worst thing he's subjected us to!
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Feb 11, 2021 01:51
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A good method for supplying outposts with ammo is to set up a train station to take delivery and distribute ammo, then set up a circuit network to turn the station on and off depending on how much ammo is available at that outpost. My current map has about 35 hours and biter evolution is coming up on 80%. After automating production of turrets, walls, rob Oporto and everything else, the additional logistics of defending against biter attacks is a nice challenge after playing in peaceful mode for years. Behemoths should start showing up shortly, but I’ve got artillery queued for research and tons of power storage for laser turrets. As long as you make amp production a priority and have all your defensive structures in the logistics network I haven’t found it overly challenging.
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Feb 11, 2021 03:28
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I should really move to rail supplied defenses, but instead I just keep making my giant perimeter belt longer... heh..
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Feb 11, 2021 04:46
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The Locator posted:I should really move to rail supplied defenses, but instead I just keep making my giant perimeter belt longer... heh.. The belt must grow. These days I seem to stick with a gnarly perimeter belt too, at least until I switch to laser turrets.
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Feb 11, 2021 04:51
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Is it better to leave bitters be until the pollution cloud reaches them or can I be proactive in taking small bases out. Also do I actively need stone for anything? I have a miner going but I am not using it for anything.
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Feb 11, 2021 05:52
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You will use stone in making more furnaces and eventually (indirectly) in later technology. If you have a wall and turrets up then you can put off dealing with biters until later, rather than proactively clearing your entire cloud. You progressively unlock military toys that will let you clear biter bases more efficiently, so putting it off until you have those unlocked can be more effectively than constantly spending all your time clearing bases.
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Feb 11, 2021 05:57
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Jabor posted:You will use stone in making more furnaces and eventually (indirectly) in later technology. Right of course, I just unlocked walls  Off for wallin. EDIT: How do you 'clear the cloud'? Just shut off the polluters? I know I can unlock solar relatively early (Not quite at that point yet tho.)
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Feb 11, 2021 05:59
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Clearing the cloud means killing the biter bases in/at the edge of your cloud. They will absorb pollution and use that to spawn massive amounts of biters to attack you. It's generally much easier to keep your cloud clear than to deal with constant swarms, but as Jabor said upgrades also make doing so much easier. At first turret walking is the only practical way to clear them (walk close enough to the biter base, plonk down 2-4 turrets, control + right click + drag with ammo selected to put some in them, then just try to keep them/yourself alive as you successively drop turrets closer in and wipe the base out. The first big upgrade is the combination of the car and grenades, which lets you drive in circles around bases while blowing them up, and/or defender capsules, which absolutely shred early on.
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Feb 11, 2021 06:10
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I have unlocked drilling for oil, hooray for me. So, is building up petroleum gas just... really really slow and there's nothing I can do about it? The oil refineries take a long time to puff out not very much gas at all, even with four refineries going at once. I have it hooked up to two chemical plants making sulfur and a single fluid car on a train, and the rate of production is just utterly pathetic. Train's gonna fill up once every two or three years at this rate.
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Feb 11, 2021 08:44
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You can (and should) unlock advanced oil processing for a better ratio. After that you can unlock cracking, which allows you to turn heavy oil into light and light oil into petroleum gas.
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Feb 11, 2021 08:53
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Unlucky7 posted:Right of course, I just unlocked walls Besides walls, major uses of stone include railway tracks, and landfill which uses a ton - one unit of landfill fills one small square and takes 25 stone. I just hooked up my second stone quarry to fulfil my landfill needs. Also you can pave your base with stone bricks when you feel like getting fancy.
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Feb 11, 2021 08:58
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CapnAndy posted:I have unlocked drilling for oil, hooray for me. A single refinery with basic oil processing should make 540 petroleum per minute, so 4 of them would be 2160 per minute. A fluid wagon holds 25000, so you would need 11.5 minutes to fill that. The answer is (as always): build more.
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Feb 11, 2021 12:23
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It could also be a supply issue. If you piped your oil back to base an extremely long way, using normal pipes (And not underground), that can mean the raw crude just isn't making it to your refineries. Generally I put a tank near the refineries (and sometimes a pump into said tank) to ensure pressure is good for the refineries themselves, but also to visually diagnose if I need to go tap more oil or not. Also, a train car can hold an absolute fuckton of liquid, comparatively.
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Feb 11, 2021 13:09
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A point to point piece of rail with a two-headed train is often better than piping liquid long distances. In my most recent save I'm delivering water to my refineries by train.
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Feb 11, 2021 13:25
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I thought that getting to the end game would be hard but both times I got there I hand fed turrets at all my bases until the end and it was fine. Even just 100 magazines lasts long in the turrets usually longer than they arnt destroyed.
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Feb 11, 2021 14:51
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power crystals posted:My attempts to convince robots to automatically pave a multicolor nightmare pukescape have been far more successful than I ever dreamed What the gently caress. How was that achieved?
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Feb 11, 2021 15:28
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Collateral Damage posted:A point to point piece of rail with a two-headed train is often better than piping liquid long distances. I'm about to have to bolt some more liquid trains into my network. Fortunately think I can manage (almost) everything in one location to keep it to just oil and maybe either lubricant or heavy oil (I don't recall the proportions for which one takes up less). Ship iron, copper, and coal in, produce sulfur, sulfuric acid, solid and rocket fuel, plastic, lubricant (or maybe even do belts on site for supply chain simplification)... I have no idea how much space this will take up but this is going to suck to build thinking about it. No wonder I've been putting it off for a week or so now.
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Feb 11, 2021 16:09
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Taffer posted:Doesn't matter. All that matters in the early-game is that you try to keep a pollution consumer (trees) between you and the biters. If your pollution cloud reaches a nest, you should go kill it. You should continue doing that until you have full-coverage walls that have automated resupply, because that's the first point when you don't have to be worried about pollution-triggered attacks. I'll be slightly contrarian and say don't rush automated supply. Your early resources are better spent elsewhere + it makes expansion a PIA. Instead, drop a few turrets around your perimeter, particularly on the side of the closest biter bases. Give them at least a partial wall + ~25 bullets. Block choke points when you can.
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Feb 11, 2021 16:43
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Ambaire posted:What the gently caress. How was that achieved? As mentioned somewhere upthread I have my own "better" version of concreep. Notably it works in squares instead of radii and it supports mod tiles (in this case, Dectorio's colored reinforced concrete). The first attempt of just providing it in general yielded the lines; to achieve that horrible dying GPU effect I limited it to one tile available to robots at a time so it wouldn't draw more than one square in a row before it had to wait for more to show up. One of these days I'll get around to talking to the concreep guy to see if I can just release this, though I did find a couple bugs while I was testing this anyway.
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Feb 11, 2021 17:06
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Is concrete worth it over stone? I ask this after I placed down a bunch of city blocks with concrete and this game is pretty much setup for concrete so I'm not gonna change it now. But is there any reason to just do all this as stone instead? Well the way I got iron ore and water to my concrete assemblers are pretty jank. 
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Feb 11, 2021 17:17
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Tenzarin posted:Is concrete worth it over stone? I ask this after I placed down a bunch of city blocks with concrete and this game is pretty much setup for concrete so I'm not gonna change it now. But is there any reason to just do all this as stone instead? Well the way I got iron ore and water to my concrete assemblers are pretty jank. You get twice as much concrete per stone mined, at the cost of 1/10th of an iron ore for every concrete square (and water, which is infinite). Plus you move slightly faster on it. I already automated concrete for other base resources so it was a pretty easy decision to just make everything with concrete for me. Refined concrete is too much for it to be worth the additional 10% for me, regular concrete is a nice balance.
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Feb 11, 2021 17:20
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Ok, I guess its worth it then.
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Feb 11, 2021 17:26
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I like having that step you get from concrete to refined concrete for my visual elements. The walking speed difference is marginal, I don't even know if it impacts spider speed.
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Feb 11, 2021 17:31
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you need concrete for iirc nuke reactors or something else way down the tech tree so you might as well leave it automated
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Feb 11, 2021 17:47
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Clark Nova posted:you need concrete for iirc nuke reactors or something else way down the tech tree so you might as well leave it automated Also centrifuges and artillery.
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Feb 11, 2021 17:58
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