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I feel like overall the House impeachment managers did a good job painting the whole big picture that Trump's whole political career has had cultivation of violence and mob rule as an integral part, from his earliest rallies through the Michigan statehouse and 1/6, and making no bones about how this was a serious attempt to stay in power via mob rule.
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Feb 12, 2021 01:10
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Zwabu posted:I feel like overall the House impeachment managers did a good job painting the whole big picture that Trump's whole political career has had cultivation of violence and mob rule as an integral part, from his earliest rallies through the Michigan statehouse and 1/6, and making no bones about how this was a serious attempt to stay in power via mob rule.  And that just makes it even more frustrating because, at the end of this thing, most Republican Senators will be too loving scared of the Trumpian part of the base to convict. They know what he did is wrong, they’re not stupid (well, Hawley and Cornyn might be), but at the end of the day, they’re scared they’ll become targets for a bunch of Q-Anon fuckwits, so they’re just gonna acquit, lay low, and be complicit.
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Feb 12, 2021 01:20
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generic one posted:
They're not scared. Mob rule is what they want. They just don't want it aimed at them.
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Feb 12, 2021 01:27
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Random Stranger posted:They're not scared. Mob rule is what they want. They just don't want it aimed at them. I'm not sure Trump didn't want the mob to just kill a bunch of congress people so that he could declare martial law in the wake of the tragedy and just directly seize power.
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Feb 12, 2021 01:29
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Lmao Mike Lee, Graham, and Cruz met with the loving Defense to discuss "strategy" What an absolute loving joke the GOP is. Just collude with the Jury, why the gently caress not
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Feb 12, 2021 01:29
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Murgos posted:I'm not sure Trump didn't want the mob to just kill a bunch of congress people so that he could declare martial law in the wake of the tragedy and just directly seize power.
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Feb 12, 2021 01:30
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TulliusCicero posted:Lmao Mike Lee, Graham, and Cruz met with the loving Defense to discuss "strategy" Ugh
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Feb 12, 2021 01:39
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Murgos posted:I'm not sure Trump didn't want the mob to just kill a bunch of congress people so that he could declare martial law in the wake of the tragedy and just directly seize power. What he wanted was Pence to feel enough pressure to reject the certification. In his mind, that would bounce it back to the house and he'd win because of the way states delegations vote. It was 100% a "nice democracy you have here... sure would be a shame if something... happened to it" plan. Now that wouldn't work for multiple reasons. Pence wasn't going to give on that since while he was happy to take advantage of stirring up the base, he wasn't going to kick of a second civil war. If he did cave, or got killed along with Pelosi and what's his name in the senate letting Mike Pompeo become VP and he's stupid enough to go along with this plan, then a federal judge six hours later goes, "Uh... no." As we've seen since November, even Trump's idiot brigade on the federal judiciary isn't willing to go along with feeding the constitution into a paper shredder. Not that Trump wouldn't go with martial law. Just that I don't think it would be in his plans to declare it on his mob. He'd rather tell them how great they were.
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Feb 12, 2021 01:47
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Random Stranger posted:They're not scared. Mob rule is what they want. They just don't want it aimed at them. I think we can both be right on this one, because there’s still an element of potentially having to fear for their lives. They know if they do the right thing, it’s gonna come back on them. It’s cowardice, it’s fear.
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Feb 12, 2021 01:49
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So Hawley isn't taking this trial seriously so he can review paperwork. But don't let that fool you into thinking he is taking his job seriously. I heard through the grapevine that his staff skipped a scheduled meeting with one of the larger public unions here in Missouri. What wonderful senator we have!
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Feb 12, 2021 02:00
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Deteriorata posted:Yes, but it would start a shitshow. Said Senator would object and they'd have to hash it out. Yeah, we wouldn't want a poo poo show, would we? That would just be counter productive. Why the gently caress not just do what McConnell has done for the last 7 years and say or do whatever the gently caress you want then let these babies cry about it? The GOP is never going to convict and I'm gently caress all if I'm worried about decorum and rules right now. Make these gently caress heads own this poo poo and let them cry about it all they want. There's no reason at all to play nice with these dicks.
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Feb 12, 2021 02:32
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Random Stranger posted:They're not scared. Mob rule is what they want. They just don't want it aimed at them. i think its a mix. its mix of fear and sunk cost and always kissing the kings boot. a bunch of them are also fine with what happened to various degrees or think that a target and a cop outpost getting burned(with no injuries or deaths) are the same or worse. alpha_destroy posted:So Hawley isn't taking this trial seriously so he can review paperwork. But don't let that fool you into thinking he is taking his job seriously. I heard through the grapevine that his staff skipped a scheduled meeting with one of the larger public unions here in Missouri. What wonderful senator we have! well hawley is a literal opportunistic moron who wants to be trump but is a dumber cruz. Random Stranger posted:What he wanted was Pence to feel enough pressure to reject the certification. In his mind, that would bounce it back to the house and he'd win because of the way states delegations vote. It was 100% a "nice democracy you have here... sure would be a shame if something... happened to it" plan. this. trump wanted his crowd to storm/surround the capitol and scream and yell and threaten the GOP until the canceled the election. i honestly dont think he gave a poo poo either way if pence got hurt since pence "hurt" him. i feel like its a weird case of the blind leading the blind being cheered on by the blind and a couple loud one eyed men.
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Feb 12, 2021 02:40
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TulliusCicero posted:Lmao Mike Lee, Graham, and Cruz met with the loving Defense to discuss "strategy" exactly. at this point, i hope they just do it stupidly openly so when the trump lawyers give some half assed defense about how BLM is worse or whatever, than they will openly cheer for it.
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Feb 12, 2021 02:41
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Given these are Republicans, 100% a guarantee that if they got a secret ballot, they would make a lot of noises about how a secret ballot would definitely get more of them onboard for conviction, and then not a single one of them would vote for conviction when the vote happened.
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Feb 12, 2021 03:29
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Pick posted:Rome is still there https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Marino
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Feb 12, 2021 04:45
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kartikeya posted:Given these are Republicans, 100% a guarantee that if they got a secret ballot, they would make a lot of noises about how a secret ballot would definitely get more of them onboard for conviction, and then not a single one of them would vote for conviction when the vote happened. probably. though, i think if it was secret ballots and poo poo. he would get narrowly convicted.
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Feb 12, 2021 04:47
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Zwabu posted:I feel like overall the House impeachment managers did a good job painting the whole big picture that Trump's whole political career has had cultivation of violence and mob rule as an integral part, from his earliest rallies through the Michigan statehouse and 1/6, and making no bones about how this was a serious attempt to stay in power via mob rule. I agree. It's just that the Republican reaction has been "Shame it didn't work."
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Feb 12, 2021 05:17
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Random Stranger posted:They're not scared. Mob rule is what they want. They just don't want it aimed at them. What drives me nuts is THEY DO NOT GET IT. THEY CANNOT CONTROL THIS THING. All they can do is smother it, or they'll find that it's just like an out of control forest fire. You can't predict which way it will go, nor how fast, and it can chase you down so swiftly you're engulfed and dead before you realize it. Do they think if only the Democrats ran and they stuck around giving thumbs up, the mob wouldn't have eagerly grabbed up a Cruz, or a Hawley, or a Greene, and killed them as swiftly as they would have Pence? Being afraid of them is being afraid of flies on the horse after they've long fled the barn. It's like when someone who had been to Africa talked about how the guides said never, ever feed the wild animals, no matter how tame and friendly they seem, because the wild animals will become accustomed to humans giving them food, and if they head over to you and are hungry and you don't have any food for them, they'll quickly default to "YOU are the food." All these idiots have long been pushed past the ability to discern where the food is coming from. There's just hunger and the sense they DESERVE to be full. Vote guilty, vote innocent, vote in secret, it doesn't matter. The hunger will go after you if it desires to. Hell, they're probably MORE vulnerable than the likes of Pelosi and AOC, because those types KNOW there's possible danger lurking in the shadows. These idiots think the mob is on their side. It has no side, it's been pushed beyond the concept of sides now. Either end it, or it will end you. And it will probably end you first because the so-called targets are smart enough to be looking for the signs and primed to run if they have to. Zwabu posted:and making no bones about how this was a serious attempt to stay in power via mob rule. As I said in the main USPOL thread, the blackest irony of this near-impossible result is that if it had somehow worked, that would mean the rulebook was completely gone, shredded, wholly without any power. Which means it would revert to an older, more primal rulebook. Which means I would give Trump a week before he was poisoned or garroted or publicly hung as someone who really IS a ruthless, heartless strongman rises up and shows them just what they supposedly wanted REALLY means. It's not the Donald Trumps who take over if you throw out that rulebook. It's the Idi Amans. Cornwind Evil fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Feb 12, 2021 |
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Feb 12, 2021 08:17
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Cornwind Evil posted:What drives me nuts is THEY DO NOT GET IT. They have the foresight of a gnat and the hindsight of a (supernova?).
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Feb 12, 2021 15:04
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Does anyone know if there was any video/audio presented of Trump himself while the coup was occurring? I was only half paying attention to part of the trial so for and didn't see any stories about it, but I'm hoping there was and I just missed.
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Feb 12, 2021 15:22
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Kalit posted:Does anyone know if there was any video/audio presented of Trump himself while the coup was occurring? I was only half paying attention to part of the trial so for and didn't see any stories about it, but I'm hoping there was and I just missed. I don't think so. Only thing I saw was him watching it on TV in a trailer or something and IIRC Don Jr. sent out a tweet or 2.
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Feb 12, 2021 15:40
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Kalit posted:Does anyone know if there was any video/audio presented of Trump himself while the coup was occurring? I was only half paying attention to part of the trial so for and didn't see any stories about it, but I'm hoping there was and I just missed. There was a ton of stuff showing the timing of events being related to Trump through Tweets to him and being prominently shown Fox news (and other news stations) and that his tweets and videos appear to be timed to push and goad the insurrectionists further. Many people tried to call the white house and implore Trump to use his authority to help Trump was on the phone with Tuberville when Tuberville told him Pence was being moved. A few minutes later Trump made his tweet about Pence. The insurrectionists used bull horns to repeat the tweet so everyone could hear. The insurrectionists chanted hang mike pence and raced through the halls looking for him. It's pretty clear that A. Trump was monitoring the violence at the Capitol in real time B. Trump refused to use his legal authority to protect the capitol C. That Trump refused to use his personal authority with his followers to protect the capitol D. Through his tweets Trump was in direct communication with the insurrectionists who stated they were acting on his orders E. When informed that Pence was vulnerable incited his followers to new attempts to find Pence
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Feb 12, 2021 15:44
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Kalit posted:Does anyone know if there was any video/audio presented of Trump himself while the coup was occurring? I was only half paying attention to part of the trial so for and didn't see any stories about it, but I'm hoping there was and I just missed. There's an article from 1/7 stating that close friends gave up trying to communicate, he "couldn't see straight" because he was incensed at pence.
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Feb 12, 2021 15:50
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Murgos posted:There was a ton of stuff showing the timing of events being related to Trump through Tweets to him and being prominently shown Fox news (and other news stations) and that his tweets and videos appear to be timed to push and goad the insurrectionists further. Great, thank you for the run down on what was shown. I was hoping they had audio or video of Trump acting joyful while it was occurring, but figured his administration would be smart enough to immediately destroy anything along those lines.
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Feb 12, 2021 15:52
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BiggerBoat posted:I don't think so. Only thing I saw was him watching it on TV in a trailer or something and IIRC Don Jr. sent out a tweet or 2. That video was from just before he took the stage to give his big, wet, insurrectionist speech, if I’m remembering the same clip.
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Feb 12, 2021 16:07
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Aruan posted:i think the US isn't going anywhere, the question isn't "will the US exist as a country" (it will, modern countries don't really have a mechanism to splinter or fail or fall), its "to what extent does the US have global power", and that can wax and wane. The unpredictability of the.political system is definitely a cap on U.S. having global power. I'll never stop looking at it with suspicion until it has reformed or eradicated the ancient electoral apartheid system that gives the worst demographic in the country extra voting power. It would be one thing if U.S. was an actual democracy whose elected officials represent the actual populace, or a police state where none can. Both are at the very least predictable. But thanks to few thousand votes in the right states deciding the presidential election and Wyoming having as many senators as California, something completely hosed up like Bush and Trump can just happen out of nowhere and gigafuck the global community for a few years or longer. It's like the worst of both worlds. There are rogue states who seem like less of a triggering bomb now. And in the spirit of this thread, don't even get me started on accountability and rule of law because lol the other party straight up just steals supreme court justices and refuse to convict politicians of their own party even if they literally commit the crime on live TV with countless recordings.
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Feb 12, 2021 16:40
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Murgos posted:I'm not sure Trump didn't want the mob to just kill a bunch of congress people so that he could declare martial law in the wake of the tragedy and just directly seize power. I mean he did and the Republican party are caught in the abuse cycle or are truly stupid take your pick.
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Feb 12, 2021 16:47
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https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1360246112855101442
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Feb 12, 2021 16:47
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*Ron Howard Voice* They did not.
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Feb 12, 2021 16:49
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They won't, but it's another smart comment for PR purposes.
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Feb 12, 2021 16:50
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Trump lawyers expected to present short defense as Senate impeachment trial nears endquote:Former president Donald Trump’s lawyers are expected to present a relatively short defense in his Senate impeachment trial on Friday, arguing that his speech was protected by the First Amendment and that House managers failed to show he was responsible for the Jan. 6 violent attack on the Capitol. The lawyers have been allotted 16 hours but say they will use only a fraction of that time. As expected, they're not even going to try. Don't bother watching, it will just infuriate you.
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Feb 12, 2021 17:13
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Anyone who wants to watch looks like they're getting started.
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Feb 12, 2021 17:20
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Deteriorata posted:Trump lawyers expected to present short defense as Senate impeachment trial nears end They're gonna go with the My Cousin Vinny "everything those guys just said is bullshit. Thank you" defense
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Feb 12, 2021 17:21
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BiggerBoat posted:They're gonna go with the My Cousin Vinny "everything those guys just said is bullshit. Thank you" defense This would actually be at least respectable.
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Feb 12, 2021 17:23
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mdemone posted:This would actually be at least respectable. So what are they going to do instead?
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Feb 12, 2021 17:34
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Deteriorata posted:Trump lawyers expected to present short defense as Senate impeachment trial nears end Can't wait for the coveted "None of this matters because the Jury is colluding with the Defense. Neener Neener Neener, look at my wiener" defense
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Feb 12, 2021 17:36
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https://www.c-span.org/video/?508916-1/impeachment-trial
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Feb 12, 2021 17:51
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Any streams that are generating text transcripts on the fly? I'm heading into a 3hr meeting and won't really be able to catch up even at double video speed.
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Feb 12, 2021 17:51
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:Any streams that are generating text transcripts on the fly? I'm heading into a 3hr meeting and won't really be able to catch up even at double video speed. Do you really want a text transcript of Bruce Castor's waffling?
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Feb 12, 2021 17:53
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As I won't have a chance to catch up until Sunday, yeah, I'd rather stay up to date with a text transcript. 
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Feb 12, 2021 18:02
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