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Covid is not the first deadly, infectious disease that humanity has had to deal with through strict, well funded long-term measures. Hell, we have to apply the same line of thinking to invasive plants and animals too. "The government won't do anything, so at what point do we shrug our shoulders and accept some people will get infected" is not and will never be an acceptable line of thinking, and applied to other diseases and invasive organisms would have seen ecosystems destroyed and communities wiped out. I have learned a lot in the past year about how, despite being an introvert who really needs his alone time, I am also desperately in need of some face to face socialization, but we're in this for the long haul, and the answer cannot be to accept that the government is just going to gently caress it, because the end result is a lot of needless death and long term illness. Admittedly I don't have an answer to getting out of it in the face of overwhelming apathy and incompetence, but the old standby of throwing every MP and journalist into a wheat thresher is as strong a contender as always.
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Feb 13, 2021 14:15
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ItohRespectArmy posted:atleast somebody is enjoying it, all I've done is clear out my steam backlog and watch all those prestige tv shows everyone told me to watch. This sounds wonderful. I mostly sit staring at the backlog trying to pick something to play/watch before going back to FF14.
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Feb 13, 2021 14:17
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Jakabite posted:Maybe I've gotten a little carried away defending my point here. I do fully support Zero Covid as a strategy and fair play to the people working on that campaign. I've actually done a bit of copy writing for it myself. I think it just gets my goat to see some goons absolutely demonise people who, without any ill will in the world, are hopeful that the vaccine might allow them to get back to their lives. Hell, most people won't even have heard of a zero Covid strategy. Wondering if you might be able to go on holiday or to the pub this year doesn't make you some awful selfish elite bastard who doesn't care about other people. I think that's what got to me. Apologies to any goons who are susceptible, I didn't mean to imply you're disposable. The thing I'm aware of is that if the vaccine does sort everything out and we can all go back to normal despite the gov cockups the covid doomers like me are gonna have to make sure we're not just sunk costing ourselves into resisting it. I very consciously have set up a switch in my head that I will flick when things go back to normal and return to socialising as if nothing happened. But right now it's hard to tell which way things will go and so far betting on the government being unable to do anything but make things worse has paid off. I've heard the vaccine stuff is going well but I'm skeptical how it will all turn out. gently caress I'm ready to go back to normal though. I want to drink a pint and go to a resteraunt and go into the city to buy something I could just buy online instead.
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Feb 13, 2021 14:18
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Dakha posted:Do any of you covid to zero people have school age kids here? I’m honestly curious. Several of the supporters of the zero covid campaign I've spoken to are yes. They're worried about the long term effects long covid might have on their children and they're worried about government measures letting it spread amongst school age children and the inevitable impact it'll have on their families when their families get it from them.
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Feb 13, 2021 14:19
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stev posted:This sounds wonderful. I mostly sit staring at the backlog trying to pick something to play/watch before going back to FF14. I basically worked my way down alphabetically and most of the games as it turns out were pretty bad but some of them made me feel very dumb for not playing earlier. I honestly wish I'd have subbed to ff14 at the start of the pandemic but I kept thinking we'd get out poo poo together any day now.
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Feb 13, 2021 14:21
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namesake posted:You've given up. Thats sad but it happens. Go away.
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Feb 13, 2021 14:21
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Jakabite posted:I think it just gets my goat to see some goons absolutely demonise people who, without any ill will in the world, are hopeful that the vaccine might allow them to get back to their lives. Hell, most people won't even have heard of a zero Covid strategy. Wondering if you might be able to go on holiday or to the pub this year doesn't make you some awful selfish elite bastard who doesn't care about other people. Sorry, who said this?
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Feb 13, 2021 14:24
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Oh get hosed you holier than thou prick ^^ I'm not going to sniff out every post that's scoffed at people wanting to go back to their 'cineworld' and 'package holidays' for you. Being mad at opening up too early is fair, turning your nose up at people asking when it might be okay to go out again isn't, especially when most of them people aren't as happy to sit in front of a screen reading a dead comedy forum all day. I'm living with a 9 year old who can barely stop crying right now, so excuse me if I'm not too keen on people who are just buzzing about getting to stay in and everyone having to do what they do all the time now. Owly and crispix being the main offenders if you want names. Jakabite fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Feb 13, 2021 |
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Feb 13, 2021 14:24
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Jakabite posted:Oh get hosed you holier than thou prick Ok, forget I empty quoted the 'go away', you can stick around. But it sure sounds like you've given up. EDIT and no, before you say it, I am not a shut in goon who loves to be on his own and likes to kiss being on my own and have babies with being on my own and the babies looked at you. I am desperate to go to a pub, and to see my first ever niece who I have met twice in 14 months and who, when I think about her, makes my heart hurt and so I try not to too often, and visit my friends, and my parents, and my granny except she died the other week, and/or do anything except stare at these same loving walls But I'll sit here forever if it keeps other people safe, end of story, until an actual comprehensive zero covid strategy is in place. Barry Foster fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Feb 13, 2021 |
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Feb 13, 2021 14:26
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Pistol_Pete posted:You're both talking as though effective vaccines don't exist and aren't being rolled out to millions of people right now this minute. Obviously there's a debate to be had about how and how quickly we relax restrictions as vaccination cover expands but if we can't relax things even once everyone's vaccinated, what's the point? I'm no fan of the government but a policy of beginning to relax restrictions once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated and effectively ending all restrictions once everyone's vaccinated seems reasonable enough to me. I mean, what else are we supposed to do? Stay in lockdown forever? I can't remember a time where the NHS was protected in any tangible sense from being overwhelmed and the vulnerable were protected, certainly not after experiencing a decade+ of austerity in poverty while disabled, having disabled kids and having to constantly chase down what remnants of medical and social care remain. Much like with the sudden concern for kids mental health and education prospects under lockdown from commentators who spent the last decade cheering every savage cut and sneering at every expert who warned of the consequences- the root problems existed before this event, and ensured many of the current issues being struggled with. That the stated goalposts for stopping "lockdown" are ridiculously open to debate and the fact that "lockdown" in the UK has largely been a sham are not indicators of me wanting permanent lockdown. I wanted one that actually worked, not a botch job designed to generate maximum capital followed by more readily preventable deaths. Again. And again. I miss doing things more than I thought was possible. Yesterday morning I briefly spoke with my sister in law, now a NZ citizen. She was going out for a meal (a succulent Chinese one at that) and then to a concert and speaking even as a pretty devoted introvert and wannabe hermit I was choking on jealousy. Which is still preferable to my lung fluids, thanks all the same.
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Feb 13, 2021 14:26
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ItohRespectArmy posted:atleast somebody is enjoying it, all I've done is clear out my steam backlog and watch all those prestige tv shows everyone told me to watch. like i don't get off on other people being miserable i do however feel a tremendous sense of vindication - like I needn't have spent my life beating myself up that i couldn't enjoy doing things like normal people do because the pandemic has shone a light on the positives of being a curmudgeonly old shut in more hygienic 
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Feb 13, 2021 14:28
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Covid is not the first deadly, infectious disease that humanity has had to deal with through strict, well funded long-term measures. Hell, we have to apply the same line of thinking to invasive plants and animals too. "The government won't do anything, so at what point do we shrug our shoulders and accept some people will get infected" is not and will never be an acceptable line of thinking, and applied to other diseases and invasive organisms would have seen ecosystems destroyed and communities wiped out. That we're even at this point is the result of multiple failures, but by that point you can't just not do the last failsafe, it's a bit like being stuck in a lift because the cable broke and the emergency brakes kicked in, yeah, loving sucks that you're stuck in a lift but banging on the door saying "take off the emergency brakes" rather than "which oval office didn't maintain the hoist cable" or even just "get us out" is missing a big part of the situation.
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Feb 13, 2021 14:29
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https://twitter.com/wizardcubes/status/1360567934100402182?s=19 What a loving freak
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Feb 13, 2021 14:31
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Jakabite posted:I think it just gets my goat to see some goons absolutely demonise people who, without any ill will in the world, are hopeful that the vaccine might allow them to get back to their lives. Hell, most people won't even have heard of a zero Covid strategy. Wondering if you might be able to go on holiday or to the pub this year doesn't make you some awful selfish elite bastard who doesn't care about other people. Idealistically, the world goes back to being able to leave the house when the virus is sorted. Even under the most optimistic vaccine regimes, there will always be some people succeptable to the virus, but if we're dealing with pure idealism, those people are shielded by lifestyle changes the same way immunocompromised people are now. The reality of it though is that we have an idiot at the helm who keeps steering the Titanic back toward its 'normal' course every time the tear in the hull gets smaller than it was before (I refuse in advance to read twisto's post about what actually happened). Any drop in deaths is treat as a sign we can open the pubs again. We have medical experts saying the virus is moving to younger hosts and we still have the loving schools open. While other countries were adopting border quarantine and full lockdown, we were doing eat out to help out and arguing about if christmas bubbles were the same thing as support bubbles but only if you met outside in groups of less than 6. I get that everyone is sick of how long this has gone on. As an autistic person, if there's one thing I have learned about you poor allistic bastards it's that you go loving crazy without contact with each other. But like someone said last page, if we keep trying to come out of lockdown too early, we negate any progress we've made so far. So when you ask how long we need to be in lockdown, my honest answer is I don't know as long as we have the tories in charge and no effective opposition.
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Feb 13, 2021 14:31
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(Edit: addressed to namesake) I was more meaning the people debating here, through interesting to hear viewpoints of course. How old are their kids? Do they have the jobs and resources able to support their learning for the time required? To everyone else here getting heated up - do you have school aged kids? Personally I’m thankful every day that my child is nursery age (and to be clear we choose to attend nursery as the least worst option available). I see missed education as far more of a likely long term disability than any risk of long covid. Dakha fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Feb 13, 2021 |
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Feb 13, 2021 14:32
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Failed Imagineer posted:https://twitter.com/wizardcubes/status/1360567934100402182?s=19 this dude want to gently caress he own daughter and shoot a four year old boy, a shameful dude
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Feb 13, 2021 14:33
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Jakabite posted:Oh get hosed you holier than thou prick lol i'm happy to help, i maintain that people pining to go to magaluf and ibiza or whatever the gently caress in the middle of this are utter cretins with poo poo for brains
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Feb 13, 2021 14:35
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:I have learned a lot in the past year about how, despite being an introvert who really needs his alone time, I am also desperately in need of some face to face socialization, but we're in this for the long haul, and the answer cannot be to accept that the government is just going to gently caress it, because the end result is a lot of needless death and long term illness. Same. I go about life like a solo player in an MMO a lot of the time and I was sure I'd be fine through this but it became really clear really quickly that I need the little interactions to stay sane. We aren't made to live this way, and I don't blame anyone else for throwing up their hands and saying the same thing. But, that's why I'm angry at the government, because it's their titting around that's dragging this all out for all of us. It's maddening when someone flagrantly breaks the rules and has a house party the police have to break up, it's maddening when the NHS is getting swamped by idiots that thought they'd get away with it, it's maddening that vulnerable people are being put at risk needlessly. I'm mad at everyone that does those things. But can you really expect people, en masse, to do any better? This is why we needed a government to use the vanishingly small window of time when everyone was taking it more seriously to knock it on the head early. The fault is all with them.
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Feb 13, 2021 14:38
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crispix posted:lol i'm happy to help, i maintain that people pining to go to magaluf and ibiza or whatever the gently caress in the middle of this are utter cretins with poo poo for brains those scumbags wanting to go on holiday but not actually going on holiday just wanting to scum
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Feb 13, 2021 14:38
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they're not going because they're not allowed and i don't think they're scum, just morons
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Feb 13, 2021 14:40
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Not the happiest discussion to bring this up in but there's an online meeting about the ecological and economic impact of the pandemic starting at 2pm today. You can register here: https://zerocovid.uk/2021/01/13/the-ecology-and-economics-of-the-pandemic/ The economics side is Grace Blakeley and Michael Roberts so those sessions are going to be great. Dakha posted:(Edit: addressed to namesake) I was more meaning the people debating here, through interesting to hear viewpoints of course. How old are their kids? Do they have the jobs and resources able to support their learning for the time required? Those are valid issues, although I'd suggest that it's easier to have extra education and socialisation than it is to have medical rehabilitation in terms of resolving long term impact. The overall issue isn't what harms you have to put children through, it's about demanding adequate protection and support. Why hasn't a televised educational channel for each year group been put together? Why isn't there free internet being rolled out? Why are our schools so understaffed that classrooms sizes are too large to be safe? These can't be fixed overnight but they can be fixed and it's right to see that solutions do exist but British capitalist society isn't interested in implementing them.
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Feb 13, 2021 14:41
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crispix posted:they're not going because they're not allowed Sneering at people looking forward to a tiny bit of happiness in the middle of this hell just makes you look like a lovely person.
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Feb 13, 2021 14:41
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Dakha posted:Do any of you covid to zero people have school age kids here? I’m honestly curious. Yes, i have 2 kids, one in nursery and the other in primary school. Homeschooling while my wife and I also try to work fulltime is hard as gently caress, but we'll continue to do it rather than send them back to Plague School for as long as we can.
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Feb 13, 2021 14:43
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Having to do things differently at work because of covid is exhausting, because all of my contacts with service users are different. I had two weeks off at Christmas, and I'm already almost burned out. But we still shouldn't open things back up again any time soon. What a terrible idea.
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Feb 13, 2021 14:43
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Necrothatcher posted:Sneering at people looking forward to a tiny bit of happiness in the middle of this hell just makes you look like a lovely person. i'm not sneering, i'm just chuckling if anything. it's so ridiculous. i'm not a sneerer and presenting foreign holidays as the single source of human happiness in this world makes you look silly imo
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Feb 13, 2021 14:44
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Dakha posted:I see missed education as far more of a likely long term disability than any risk of long covid. Ultimately I'd worry more about their health, because at the end of the day you can help them with their maths homework, you can't help with their breathing.
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Feb 13, 2021 14:46
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anyway i'm FUCKIN DONE WITH ALLA YIZ ya tetchy bastards yas i'm going for a walk in the snow 
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Feb 13, 2021 14:46
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Dakha posted:To everyone else here getting heated up - do you have school aged kids? No, but to be honest I think we should be vaccinating children, their parents and teachers as a priority once we get to working age people; they're in relatively less danger (or were, until new variants started cropping up), but they're one of the primary transmission vectors (through no fault of their own, kids are just like that, the sticky little angels), are at a really formative age for socializing, and it's been a real challenge for parents to have their kids around 24/7; most societies throughout history that haven't needed their kids to work have found a way of getting them out of their hair for a portion of the day, even if it's just "go play with each other outside somewhere". It's putting me even further down the list for a vaccine, but if we're serious about crushing transmission rates then it's probably a good idea. crispix posted:lol i'm happy to help, i maintain that people pining to go to magaluf and ibiza or whatever the gently caress in the middle of this are utter cretins with poo poo for brains It's okay for people to pine for it, we all need a light at the end of the tunnel. I assume you mean the people actually planning to go. It'll be three years since I saw any of my LARP buddies in person by the time events run again, assuming we're vaccinated, but lord knows I'm already buying stupidly expensive kit that I absolutely cannot use yet; I guess I could wear it around the house like a crazy person though.
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Feb 13, 2021 14:49
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:It's okay for people to pine for it, we all need a light at the end of the tunnel. I assume you mean the people actually planning to go. yes ringing jeremy vine to gurn about not getting their deposits back and that. that man certainly works for his money, listening to people like that and not swearing at them imo
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Feb 13, 2021 14:51
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It's a trolley problem with 9 sections of track. 8 of them have millions of people on them each. The man standing at the controls is asking you which direction to send the trolley, but when you say the empty track he says it's too expensive to do that. Somehow, this means you are responsible for the death toll.
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Feb 13, 2021 14:52
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Bobby Deluxe posted:This is a bold take. I would suggest reading up on some of the long covid effects, and then take into consideration how that loss of mobility and energy might impact them during their formative stages. The scary thing is that the really long-term consequences of this won't be known for a long time. Sadly I think this is a choice between bad options, and knowing what I know about long covid, I still stand by my choice. I understand not everyone will agree though I know I’m not alone, particularly with those who have children.
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Feb 13, 2021 14:57
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The really big elephant in the room with this 'route out of lockdown' is the prevalence of South African covid (and the new UK mutation with similar characteristics). If we can't at least stamp out any traces of that before we ease measures it'll establish itself as one of the main strains and given it can get people who've had the oxford jab will have a competitive advantage over the domestic variants and then we'll virtually be back to step one, maybe with a lower death count but still a huge number of cases and a continually mutating virus
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Feb 13, 2021 14:58
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Jakabite posted:Oh get hosed you holier than thou prick owlfancier being an arsehole about something you say it hardly seems possible
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Feb 13, 2021 14:59
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you don't NEED to go on a foreign holiday you stupid loving moron. we're not even a year into a loving GLOBAL PANDEMIC and you're gurning about not being able to spend a week on a sun lounger drinking san miguel and re-reading your andy mcnabs DO YOU HAVE SWISS CHEESE FOR BRAINS, DO YOU HAVE ANY SENSE OF PERSPECTIVE AT ALL YOU UTTER WAZZOCK is something along the lines of what i'd be liable to say in jeremy vine's shoes his probably expensive shoes probably from italy or portugal maybe
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Feb 13, 2021 15:01
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Failed Imagineer posted:https://twitter.com/wizardcubes/status/1360567934100402182?s=19 His grandparents are from the same city as me and basically everyone there thinks of him as a huge dick too, as he's been suing the government to let him sell a unesco world-heritage-listed villa as residential property. To be entirely fair there's a complex story behind it, it was designed by Ludwig Mies for their jewish family in the interwar years, then they fled to Britain for obvious reasons, after which it was nationalised by the soviets and used first for offices and then later as a dance school (the building has lots of floorspace). Eventually it was restored by the state for the cost of couple dozen million pounds and now it's your usual guided tour attraction place. The heirs were given back the ownership but they can't actually do anything with it which is obviously not what they'd like to do lmbo. e: He also occasionally gets interviewed by Czech right-wing media and reliably spews some fairly disgusting views, which causes the centre-left government dislike him even more but makes him a darling of a certain group of posh Czech conservative twats. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Feb 13, 2021 |
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Feb 13, 2021 15:03
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Julio Cruz posted:owlfancier being an arsehole about something you say 
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Feb 13, 2021 15:05
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Getting on a plane for the next few years at least seems like a very bad idea. If we do go on holiday they will all be ones that we can drive to.
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Feb 13, 2021 15:05
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Lungboy posted:Getting on a plane for the next few years at least seems like a very bad idea. If we do go on holiday they will all be ones that we can drive to. never been on a cruise before so this seems like the perfect time
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Feb 13, 2021 15:06
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Any tips on good ways to sell a large number of old games (Xbox 360 and PlayStation 1) in a way that actually makes me money?
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Feb 13, 2021 15:09
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Darth Walrus posted:Any tips on good ways to sell a large number of old games (Xbox 360 and PlayStation 1) in a way that actually makes me money? Art installation. Or just sell the classics and give the rest away. Jose posted:never been on a cruise before so this seems like the perfect time Lol do it Jose I want to hear you report from a plague ship in the middle of a tornado.
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Feb 13, 2021 15:10
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