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Cleretic posted:A random thing that's mostly unrelated to the topic at hand, but that I always remember when Cowboy Bebop comes up (and that's less depressing than talking about how bad Whedon's stuff is to look back on): Back in the early 00s there was talk of a Cowboy Bebop live-action adaptation, and the only thing I remember about it is Keanu Reeves as Spike. And the era of completely loving up live-action anime adaptations. I'm amazed Ghost in the Shell even vaguely resembled the source material, and Alita is basically because James Cameron is a personal fan.
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Feb 14, 2021 11:07
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I've never watched Cowboy Bebop but the pub I often used to go to had it playing silently on a projector. There's a child character who, even without audio, I'm about 90% sure must be so irritating as to make the show unwatchable. They've got red hair and big red splotches on their face and look like they belong in an entirely different cartoon.HopperUK posted:See, I liked Dollhouse, but now I know what kind of person Whedon is, I feel a bit sick that I ever defended it. Like yeah the premise is evil and hosed up and I thought that was understood by the show and the showrunners but hey APPARENTLY NOT SO MUCH.
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Feb 14, 2021 11:08
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Tiggum posted:I've never watched Cowboy Bebop but the pub I often used to go to had it playing silently on a projector. There's a child character who, even without audio, I'm about 90% sure must be so irritating as to make the show unwatchable. They've got red hair and big red splotches on their face and look like they belong in an entirely different cartoon. That's Ed, and honestly, she's really interesting not because of her overall character, but because she's not exactly as annoying as that sort of character normally is in anything else. Literally every other show would've had her be really loud, dominate any scene she's in, and give her way too many spotlight episodes (if you ever want to see a textbook example of that, watch Yu-Gi-Oh 5D's and experience how efficiently it makes you hate children). But Bebop's smart enough to recognize the value in making that character very quiet and brief instead. Ed mostly exists to do only a few things: 1. Give some scenes some motion and interesting visuals that they otherwise wouldn't have. 2. Do the tech stuff that's required to make a bunch of that show's plots function properly, but none of the other characters would be any good at. 3. Show that everyone else on the ship is such a goddamn idiot that they can be outsmarted by a child and a dog. Ed's got one spotlight episode, and it's neither her introduction or farewell episode, which should probably tell you how Bebop actually treated her.
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Feb 14, 2021 11:28
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What the hell is Data dog anyway....
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Feb 14, 2021 11:41
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Jestery posted:What the hell is Data dog anyway.... Johnny Mnemonic but a dog? I never really questioned this before. Edit: But don't we see it hacking a computer at some point?
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Feb 14, 2021 12:03
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Desert Bus posted:Johnny Mnemonic but a dog? I never really questioned this before. They never really elaborate on what exactly a 'Data Dog' is. Ein does hack a computer via VR, yes, but that's about the most extreme thing he ever does. Mostly Ein's just the smartest person on the ship in entirely mundane ways that don't really play into the plot.
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Feb 14, 2021 12:12
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Desert Bus posted:Johnny Mnemonic but a dog? I never really questioned this before. 
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Feb 14, 2021 13:42
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Tiggum posted:
From how the technology involved ends up destroying the world and everything is worse for its existence and the people using the 'dolls' are all monsters. But yeah - I gave it way too much credit. Ugh.
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Feb 14, 2021 13:56
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Firefly and Dollhouse were both shows that benefited from some great cast chemistry and actors in spite of bad writing, bad characters, bad everything. Firefly especially had the whole aesthetic vibe of a Saturday morning cable show from the 90s. It wasn't terrible but it definitely wasn't high art. As someone who absolutely loved Firefly in the early 00s and watched Dollhouse but didn't really find it engaging, both shows are extremely artifacts of their time that were showing their age pretty seriously within a few years. Firefly is only notable for the insane fanbase that made it their identity and continued to talk about it like it was the greatest show ever for 20 years running. It's like Rick and Morty. Its long running by now but in 10-15 years its going to be another one of those shows most associated with a weird fanbase rather then the actual show. lol remembering that the fans called themselves "browncoats" even in the context of the show it made it out like they were the confederacy against the evil mean big governments. pentyne has a new favorite as of 15:31 on Feb 14, 2021 |
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Feb 14, 2021 15:28
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pentyne posted:It's like Rick and Morty. Its long running by now but in 10-15 years its going to be another one of those shows most associated with a weird fanbase rather then the actual show. 10 or 15 years? It crossed that point somewhere in season 2 with the whole McDonalds sauce thing.
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Feb 14, 2021 15:31
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Dan Harmon should limit every series he works on to two seasons. I think the jokes just get too played out once he stretches past that.
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Feb 14, 2021 16:57
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Firefly is funny to me because when it first came out I was in high school and still in full-on weeb mode, so when the trailers came out, my dumb rear end was constantly "Oh, girl in a suitcase in a space western? This is clearly just a ripoff of Outlaw Star, I shall pass  "It wasn't until like 10 years later when I saw the boxset of the series on sale at Walmart for like $10 that I decided to give it a chance and decided I loved it, though in light of everything now, I dunno if I'd feel that way if I gave it a rewatch.
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Feb 14, 2021 17:20
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pentyne posted:lol remembering that the fans called themselves "browncoats" even in the context of the show it made it out like they were the confederacy against the evil mean big governments. One of the things I really liked about Firefly was some offhand comment that Inara makes about supporting the Union or whatever the non-browncoats were. I wish I had the clip, but for me at least the way she said it made it clear that, in general, the browncoats were wrong and the central government was right, and the romantic lost cause rhetoric was just a facade, and Mal buying into it made him a dupe or a sucker, not a hero. In retrospect I probably read some depth into it that wasn't there.
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Feb 14, 2021 18:13
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DeadlyMuffin posted:One of the things I really liked about Firefly was some offhand comment that Inara makes about supporting the Union or whatever the non-browncoats were. I wish I had the clip, but for me at least the way she said it made it clear that, in general, the browncoats were wrong and the central government was right, and the romantic lost cause rhetoric was just a facade, and Mal buying into it made him a dupe or a sucker, not a hero. I wouldn't say joss was some Lost Causer or anything it just smacks of his general writing style, lots of ideas with absolutely 0 awareness of any race/gender/sex implications jazzed up with quippy lines and some surface level diversity so he can keep screaming to the world how enlightened and progressive he is.
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Feb 14, 2021 18:21
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The brown coats are a stand in for the Confederacy. We're basically watching Bloody Bill Anderson run around with his rag tag group causing mischief.
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Feb 14, 2021 18:21
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only thanks to the movie we know that the brown coats were actually right and the government were in fact bad guys
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Feb 14, 2021 19:17
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Duckman is still funny but Christ Almighty there are episodes where the writer clearly didn't understand he's not supposed to be the voice of reason. When he's the rear end of the joke, like 99% of the time, it holds up fine but there's episodes scattered here and about where he gives some great speech about how the attitude towards sexual harassment is overblown or something and it gets really uncomfortable really fast. The Critic is also great and holds up ridiculously well considering its age, which makes the 2 or 3 transphobic jokes really stick out. It's a bummer.
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Feb 14, 2021 20:09
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Not that Invasion USA (1952) had aged particularly well even within its own decade, but the scene where Soviet Paratroopers invade the Capitol building and kill a congressman has taken on some weird connotations. Not to mention it being immediately followed by a scene where American generals mock the dead congressman for cutting the military's budget.
Grammarchist has a new favorite as of 20:58 on Feb 14, 2021 |
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Feb 14, 2021 20:16
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Len posted:only thanks to the movie we know that the brown coats were actually right and the government were in fact bad guys It's weird because the drug kills 99.99% of people exposed to it, and it turns the other 0.01% into superhuman gang rapists. Did no one test it? At all?
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Feb 14, 2021 21:05
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GreenMetalSun posted:It's weird because the drug kills 99.99% of people exposed to it, and it turns the other 0.01% into superhuman gang rapists. Did no one test it? At all? Yeah, they did, on the planet Miranda. I mean, I know what you're getting at, clinical studies and all with trials under controlled conditions designed to catch this poo poo BEFORE you end up with hordes of homicidal gangraping space cannibals. Even crazier is that it wasn't even their first attempt! There are some novels out that take place in The 'Verse, one of the most recent ones is called The Ghost Machine, and it's about a machine that's supposed to use infrasound to pacify populations, though the government did scrap that idea.
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Feb 14, 2021 21:10
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Len posted:only thanks to the movie we know that the brown coats were actually right and the government were in fact bad guys I mean, the show isn't exactly subtle that the government were bad dudes. There's an entire episode that takes place on a slave-planet they run. Whedon is bad and Firefly is dumb, but y'all are big mad at a show that only exists in your imaginations. Grunch Worldflower has a new favorite as of 21:13 on Feb 14, 2021 |
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Feb 14, 2021 21:11
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Grunch Worldflower posted:I mean, the show isn't exactly subtle that the government were bad dudes. There's an entire episode that takes place on a slave-planet they run. There's probably a valid debate over what would cause more harm, unchecked space capitalist 'democracy' , or free wheeling unregulated gunslinger libertarians.
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Feb 14, 2021 21:16
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Which episode was the slave planet? I haven't watched it in a long rear end time but I mostly remember the alliance being evil in that they did bad things to River But then the movie is just all about how they're actually the bad guys and Mal was Right
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Feb 14, 2021 21:17
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Well, pretty much the only way unchecked libertarianism comes off as the better choice is by contrasting it with vaguely incompetent fascism. Edit: Len posted:Which episode was the slave planet? I haven't watched it in a long rear end time but I mostly remember the alliance being evil in that they did bad things to River Jaynestown. The moon was ruled over by a “magistrate,” which seems in Fireflyland to basically be “rich guy the government contracts to run the place”. It’s also probably important to note that every frontier moon visited by the show was run by exploitative assholes, so it’s unclear just what was worth having a civil war over. Blue Moonlight has a new favorite as of 21:22 on Feb 14, 2021 |
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Feb 14, 2021 21:19
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Blue Moonlight posted:Well, pretty much the only way unchecked libertarianism comes off as the better choice is by contrasting it with vaguely incompetent fascism. I think it was supposed to be a parallel to/mashup of the Revolutionary War and Civil War. Basically, the planets out on the fringe were pissed because the Government was taxing the crap out of them and exploiting them for resources and the fringe planets were getting nothing in return. Law Enforcement was never sent that far out, so they had to deal with bandits and pirates and whatnot on their own while paying protection money to a government that never actually supplied any protection. They were poor and too far out so they never got any useful technology, so while people in the Core worlds are running around in flying cars with robot butlers, the people living out on the fringe worlds were lucky to have a communal bottle of aspirin in case somebody got hurt or sick. So, you know, the colonies were upset because the homeland was using and abusing them.
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Feb 14, 2021 21:36
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As I continue my Dark Shadows watch, I found another unpleasant episode. I had mentioned before that there have been several occasions of women being slapped in the face. I'm currently in the 1970 Parallel Time storyline. One plotline has scientist Cyrus Longworth - who is bacially Dr. Jeckyl - turn into his Hyde character - John Yaeger. He's an arrogant rear end in a top hat who wants what he wants and will take it and you can't stop him. In this particular episode, he hassling a waitress. He slaps her really hard at the commercial break. When they come back, he's buttoning his sleeves and she's sitting in chair, face and arms bruised and her blouse is torn. This is usually soap opera code for rape, but I could be wrong in this case. Here's the culprit, bad nose and all.  Not to worry because he will get what's coming to him.
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Feb 15, 2021 00:07
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No Im pretty sure you're very correct.
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Feb 15, 2021 00:10
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Solice Kirsk posted:Dan Harmon should limit every series he works on to two seasons. I think the jokes just get too played out once he stretches past that. Even by season 2 he tends to lean way too much on pointing out how meta everything is, which eventually collapses into a black hole of oh my god I don't loving care.
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Feb 15, 2021 00:36
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Dollhouse's original pitch involved Whedon being much more interested in the client's desires and it was only when the show started tanking that he was pushed into making the show about how mindrape tech lead to the apocalypse.An Interview with Whedon posted:"When you’re dealing with fantasies, particularly sexual ones, you’re going off the reservation," Whedon said. "You’re not going to be doing things that are perfectly correct. It’s supposed to be about the sides of us that we don’t want people to see…. The idea of sexuality was a big part of the show when it started and when that fell out, when the show turned into a thriller every week, it took something out of it that was kind of basic to what we were trying to do." I liked Dollhouse overall, and I think the bits I did like were the parts Whedon didn't want to do. The whole interview read badly at the time and is  now.
Doctor Spaceman has a new favorite as of 01:01 on Feb 15, 2021 |
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Feb 15, 2021 00:51
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Alhazred posted:Media that didn't age well. special SPECIAL EFFECTS edition
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Feb 15, 2021 03:45
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Watching Saturday Night Fever for the first time. John Travolta is dropping n-bombs and more ten minutes in. I guess I never knew how sanitized the parodies that everyone has seen were.
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Feb 15, 2021 08:36
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Speaking of early 2000s Fox shows, has anyone watched Dark Angel recently? I really liked it while it was airing and part of me has been wanting to revisit it recently, but I'm still scared that it's not going to hold up and it's going to ruin my memories of it.fartknocker posted:10 or 15 years? It crossed that point somewhere in season 2 with the whole McDonalds sauce thing. That was the season three premiere. I LIKE Rick and Morty and think season three was still overall solid, but most of what I've seen of season four is just kind of dire...and they're still contracted for like sixty more episodes. 
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Feb 15, 2021 08:51
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God Hole posted:special SPECIAL EFFECTS edition SFX is the name of the parent magazine. They used to have a slightly annoying habit of covering up the bottom part of the F with a cover star's head, but these days they save that for special occasions.
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Feb 15, 2021 08:53
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Vandar posted:Speaking of early 2000s Fox shows, has anyone watched Dark Angel recently? I really liked it while it was airing and part of me has been wanting to revisit it recently, but I'm still scared that it's not going to hold up and it's going to ruin my memories of it. At least we got Bushworld Adventures.
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Feb 15, 2021 08:57
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Solice Kirsk posted:Dan Harmon should limit every series he works on to two seasons. I think the jokes just get too played out once he stretches past that. Every time I rewatch community I give up in S3. The first two seasons are amazing but he got way too enamored with gimmick episodes.
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Feb 15, 2021 09:01
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Vandar posted:I LIKE Rick and Morty and think season three was still overall solid, but most of what I've seen of season four is just kind of dire...and they're still contracted for like sixty more episodes. lol if you think they will make even half of those.
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Feb 15, 2021 09:03
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AceOfFlames posted:lol if you think they will make even half of those. I’m wondering if Roiland will kind of force them out, that dude has a waaay better work ethic than Harmon. Since S4 of Rick and Morty he’s made two seasons of another cartoon and I think his video game also came out after S4.
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Feb 15, 2021 09:07
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Every time I rewatch community I give up in S3. The first two seasons are amazing but he got way too enamored with gimmick episodes. I generally agree but I'm genuinely impressed by the late (!) season episode where they're dealing with Pierce's will, because it does a good job of showing how a character can be communicated even when not present. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOqGVTp2AOY
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Feb 15, 2021 09:11
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Ugly In The Morning posted:I’m wondering if Roiland will kind of force them out, that dude has a waaay better work ethic than Harmon. Since S4 of Rick and Morty he’s made two seasons of another cartoon and I think his video game also came out after S4. I get the impression Rick and Morty is basically Roiland and Harmon managing to balance out each other.
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Feb 15, 2021 09:18
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GoutPatrol posted:Watching Saturday Night Fever for the first time. John Travolta is dropping n-bombs and more ten minutes in. I guess I never knew how sanitized the parodies that everyone has seen were. Saturday Nbleep Fever
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Feb 15, 2021 09:20
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