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Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010
Pillbug

Xander77 posted:

Without (further) derailing, how valuable would you find a judgement of American lit from a Russian professor?

...

As to balance - a lot of people tend to believe that feedback from "top players" with experience in the game helps improve balance for casual players as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1p42KtZOCw

Would for sure be happier than The Overcoat.

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Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

Xander77 posted:

Without (further) derailing, how valuable would you find a judgement of American lit from a Russian professor?
Do you seriously think that a Russian couldn't possibly have a valuable or well-founded understanding of American literature or something? Because lol to that idea.

Artelier
Jan 23, 2015


Iverron posted:

Monster Sanctuary suffered pretty significantly from this. The scaling is nonsensical and the difficulty curve takes a great concept and makes a miserable execution.

Oh is that what happened? I bounced off it relatively quick (probably within a couple hours) because it seemed to have a lot of fights that were very time consuming and tedious after a while. There is a possibility I was just bad at the game though!

Sorting Algorithms
Feb 7, 2021
I'm a pretty big fan of the relatively recent return to modular difficulty options we've been seeing in single player games like Celeste and The Last of Us 2 because it's the perfect compromise between having an authored, intended experience from the devs and letting people play how they want. Even if that's too complicated for some indie teams to implement they could at the very least throw in something like MGS3's EZ-Gun or the Easy Ring in Earthbound Beginnings where people can choose to trivialize the gameplay completely, so long as they don't mock the player for it or be annoying like the Chicken Hat in MGSV.

I've been playing Super Daryl Deluxe since getting it in the last sale (it's currently on sale for $6.99 for the next day or so) and it's like a case study in a game where the difficulty choices just drag down every part of it. The graphics, music, and writing are all fantastic and unique but every step of the game takes forever because of the amount of grinding it requires. All the combat is stat-based and all your attacks are on cooldowns so no matter how good a player you are you have to grind in order to not be steamrolled in each new area, and almost every quest is built around that: collecting multiples of 10 of random drops from enemies, progressing through a series of empty rooms where you have to keep fighting respawning enemies until the next door opens, backtracking through levels to plow through more infinitely-respawning enemies, and collecting crafting items and money to get equipment that will give you a brief edge before the new higher-level enemies show up and start the treadmill all over again. And since there's no auto-save and you can only save at designated save points every time you die your only option is to load a previous save and re-do all your progress from that point.

But the non-gameplay parts of the game are so compelling that I'm willing to push through it (with a healthy dose of cheating) when normally I would have given up a long ago, I just have to take a break every now and then because of how frustrating it can be. Something as simple as a multiplier for EXP and item drops would have made all the difference.

ZearothK
Aug 25, 2008

I've lost twice, I've failed twice and I've gotten two dishonorable mentions within 7 weeks. But I keep coming back. I am The Trooper!

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2021


Xander77 posted:

Without (further) derailing, how valuable would you find a judgement of American lit from a Russian professor?

Trick question. Yanks don't have literature, only propaganda and commercials.

sad question
May 30, 2020

pentyne posted:

Pathologic 2

loving what is going on its miserable and depressing and its just running back and forth between quest markers while scrounging for water & food and hoping for some reason a bunch of townspeople don't decide to chase me down and beat me to death

Just like life then.

Anonymous Robot
Jun 1, 2007

Lost his leg in Robo War I

Imagined posted:

This isn't directly Steam related but since this thread unofficially doubles as the general PC gaming chat I thought I'd ask here.

I want new dedicated headphones to leave at my PC that must:

- Have a mic
- Work easily with streaming software (so, not Bluetooth)
- Either have a transparent mode or are open back, so I can still hear my family around me fairly well

Would also be nice if:

- Wireless (but not Bluetooth) or
- USB instead of 3.5mm
- Had a cradle

Amazon search is being supremely useless, showing me a bunch of either Bluetooth earbuds, or regular closed back options.

These Sennheisers are the only ones I've found so far that are even close, but I'm still hoping to find either USB or some proprietary wireless solution.

I went through the same search recently, and settled in a pair of Astro A50 wireless. They’re quite expensive, but they are very nice and match your asks for the most part. I use my headset for my job, so it was important for me to get the best I could.

Vasler
Feb 17, 2004
Greetings Earthling! Do you have any Zoom Boots?
Hellpoint popped up as a game that, "players like me" enjoy. I took a look and it actually does look interesting. Anyone here played it and can share their experiences? It's 30% off!!!

Orv
May 4, 2011

Vasler posted:

Hellpoint popped up as a game that, "players like me" enjoy. I took a look and it actually does look interesting. Anyone here played it and can share their experiences? It's 30% off!!!

I would describe it as a very janky but not necessarily bad Souls-like with a lot of heart. Which generally people use 'a lot of heart' as an indicator that it tried really hard and didn't get there but I think in Hellpoint's case whether it got there or not is pretty subjective. Per a previous discussion, it's a game you will definitely know if you like or not inside the refund window and I'd say give it a try if you're a Souls fan, it does some really cool stuff within the framework.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

Orv posted:

I would describe it as a very janky but not necessarily bad Souls-like with a lot of heart. Which generally people use 'a lot of heart' as an indicator that it tried really hard and didn't get there but I think in Hellpoint's case whether it got there or not is pretty subjective. Per a previous discussion, it's a game you will definitely know if you like or not inside the refund window and I'd say give it a try if you're a Souls fan, it does some really cool stuff within the framework.

It looks extremely like Too Human which was one of the most forgettable games I've ever played.

nitsuga
Jan 1, 2007

sad question posted:

Just like life then.

Same with the sober cab in Stardew Valley it turns out. The game is fun, it turns out.

Got The Room and The Ultimate Doom chilling in my cart. Thinking about adding the Cube Escape bundle too to round out the surrealism.

Orv
May 4, 2011

pentyne posted:

It looks extremely like Too Human which was one of the most forgettable games I've ever played.

That is extremely unfair to Hellpoint, honestly.

Baller Time
Apr 22, 2014

by Azathoth
Please do not forget the probably most forgettable recent game, Godfall

Begemot
Oct 14, 2012

The One True Oden

Vasler posted:

Hellpoint popped up as a game that, "players like me" enjoy. I took a look and it actually does look interesting. Anyone here played it and can share their experiences? It's 30% off!!!

It's pretty decent, one of the best indie souls-likes I've played. They have a good handle on level design, but the UI and gameplay are only okay. I played it for about ten hours and then got distracted by something else coming out.

If you're into the Quake-ish space goth aesthetic, it's an easy recommendation.

scourgeofthe7bees
Jun 21, 2008


Xander77 posted:

Without (further) derailing, how valuable would you find a judgement of American lit from a Russian professor?



If it’s Nabokov eviscerating Hemingway or Faulkner, then yes please

queeb
Jun 10, 2004

m



Baller Time posted:

Please do not forget the probably most forgettable recent game, Godfall

Lol wait what, that came out?

Orv
May 4, 2011

queeb posted:

Lol wait what, that came out?

To thunderous silence, yes. It's very bad.

Vasler
Feb 17, 2004
Greetings Earthling! Do you have any Zoom Boots?

Begemot posted:

It's pretty decent, one of the best indie souls-likes I've played. They have a good handle on level design, but the UI and gameplay are only okay. I played it for about ten hours and then got distracted by something else coming out.

If you're into the Quake-ish space goth aesthetic, it's an easy recommendation.

Thanks for the information - you too Orv, appreciate it.

When you say the gameplay is only okay, what do you mean? It looked cool, but people don't seem to have a lot of positives to say.

Orv
May 4, 2011

Vasler posted:

Thanks for the information - you too Orv, appreciate it.

When you say the gameplay is only okay, what do you mean? It looked cool, but people don't seem to have a lot of positives to say.

Compared to something like a mainline Souls game or stuff like The Surge, Hellpoint feels kinda stiff. Animations are pretty indie, the gameplay itself is on the slower side of Souls in some ways, bosses have solid hitboxes but some of their moves can be kinda rough. It's not bad and I'm definitely not making like a "It's bad but fun" case for it, it's just definitely on the indie budget title side of things.

tildes
Nov 16, 2018

Ugly In The Morning posted:

I think we’re agreeing here but I’m not sure. That image gets thrown out a lot without people understanding what it actually is.

Yeah technically it’s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias?wprov=sfti1

I’d be curious how EA developers think about avoiding it

E: also congrats post that Wikipedia article you’re now slightly more prepared for an interview question at like every data analysis job from my n=4 experience

tildes fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Feb 14, 2021

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Most of them don't.

The 7th Guest
Dec 17, 2003

queeb posted:

Lol wait what, that came out?
it was an EGS exclusive, so that says something about EGS i guess that no one knew it came out

Blattdorf
Aug 10, 2012

"This will be the best for both of us, Bradley."
"Meow."
Demoncrawl is going to have Online Multiplayer.

explosivo
May 23, 2004

Fueled by Satan

The 7th Guest posted:

it was an EGS exclusive, so that says something about EGS i guess that no one knew it came out

It is pretty funny how every time I have a "Wait that game came out already?" or "I totally forgot that was coming out" moment for a game it's almost always an EGS exclusive.

The 7th Guest
Dec 17, 2003

explosivo posted:

It is pretty funny how every time I have a "Wait that game came out already?" or "I totally forgot that was coming out" moment for a game it's almost always an EGS exclusive.
it's happened with Foregone as well, where people played the demo during the festival (including me) and went 'whoa this is awesome this is gonna be a hit' and then it turns out it was already launched on EGS for six months and no one knew

Begemot
Oct 14, 2012

The One True Oden

Vasler posted:

Thanks for the information - you too Orv, appreciate it.

When you say the gameplay is only okay, what do you mean? It looked cool, but people don't seem to have a lot of positives to say.

It's like... very standard souls gameplay. Also, it has a very slow start, you don't get a choice of class and don't have very many options for weapons early on. Things open up later, but it takes a while to build up enough stats to make your character feel unique. It shines in atmosphere and level design, but the actual fighting is just Good Enough.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Cardiovorax posted:

Do you seriously think that a Russian couldn't possibly have a valuable or well-founded understanding of American literature or something? Because lol to that idea.

Yeah it's often more interesting seeing it from the outside. See e.g. Lem writing what he thought sf was supposed to be.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

Ugly In The Morning posted:

I think we’re agreeing here but I’m not sure. That image gets thrown out a lot without people understanding what it actually is.




I think they were talking about how the community feedback is the type of people that always made it back. Their feedback sucks because top level players give you no information about difficulty for the average player.

OP's argument is that measuring machine-collected metrics is survival bias because it only gathers data from the planes that managed to get past any fundamental flaws in the game that would cause other players to give up early (and thus not provide further data for the metrics, becoming invisible)

Community feedback are the planes that got shot down yelling their complaints from down below so somebody notices them, also it provides qualitative reasoning and context for interpretation of the data.

I assume in reality the devs would be able to see the drop off in players past some point and realize they have to trash the data.

steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Feb 14, 2021

Vasler
Feb 17, 2004
Greetings Earthling! Do you have any Zoom Boots?
Thanks, everyone. I think I'll pass on it, for now.

In the meantime, I picked up Dysmantle,Superliminal and Ghost Runner. Hopefully I made some good choices!

Antigravitas
Dec 8, 2019

Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:

steinrokkan posted:

I assume in reality the devs would be able to see the drop off in players past some point and realize they have to trash the data.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Data has a very authoritative feel to it. People rarely question metrics. It's why laundering garbage through a black box of ML is so effective.

...of SCIENCE!
Apr 26, 2008

by Fluffdaddy
Reading "Pathologic 2, a game that isn't fun on purpose" with the same intonation as "The Joker, a clown that thinks that crime is funny".

I'm so glad I bailed on the original after an hour because if I had put up with hours and hours of tedium for the ultimate message of "nothing in this game was real, it was all a bunch of children playing with toys...JUST LIKE VIDEO GAMES, AMIRITE???" I would have probably had a Russian literature happy ending IRL on the spot.

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

dmboogie
Oct 4, 2013

...of SCIENCE! posted:

Reading "Pathologic 2, a game that isn't fun on purpose" with the same intonation as "The Joker, a clown that thinks that crime is funny".

I'm so glad I bailed on the original after an hour because if I had put up with hours and hours of tedium for the ultimate message of "nothing in this game was real, it was all a bunch of children playing with toys...JUST LIKE VIDEO GAMES, AMIRITE???" I would have probably had a Russian literature happy ending IRL on the spot.

it’s very good actually

Kly
Aug 8, 2003

Thimbleweed Park was free on EGS a while ago so I played and finished it. Pretty fun monkey island style game with mostly good and solvable puzzles but the ending was not great. The first part where it was focused on the investigation was the best part.

ZearothK
Aug 25, 2008

I've lost twice, I've failed twice and I've gotten two dishonorable mentions within 7 weeks. But I keep coming back. I am The Trooper!

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2021


...of SCIENCE! posted:

Reading "Pathologic 2, a game that isn't fun on purpose" with the same intonation as "The Joker, a clown that thinks that crime is funny".

I'm so glad I bailed on the original after an hour because if I had put up with hours and hours of tedium for the ultimate message of "nothing in this game was real, it was all a bunch of children playing with toys...JUST LIKE VIDEO GAMES, AMIRITE???" I would have probably had a Russian literature happy ending IRL on the spot.

It is fine to find the game boring, there are a lot of very valid critiques to lay at the feet of Pathologic 1 & 2, but lol at dismissing the best written jankware of our lifetimes over reading something about the ending in a medium that's all about the journey.

Scalding Coffee
Jun 26, 2006

You're already dead

Vasler posted:

Thanks, everyone. I think I'll pass on it, for now.

In the meantime, I picked up Dysmantle,Superliminal and Ghost Runner. Hopefully I made some good choices!
Superliminal is a great game.

err
Apr 11, 2005

I carry my own weight no matter how heavy this shit gets...
Should I get Suzerain?

Uncle Ivan
Aug 31, 2001

err posted:

Should I get Suzerain?

Yes, I've been really enjoying it. I love all the choose your own adventure type games, the less gameplay the better. This game really has you feeling like your decisions matter and the directions your country can go are very different.

DatonKallandor
Aug 21, 2009

"I can no longer sit back and allow nationalist shitposting, nationalist indoctrination, nationalist subversion, and the German nationalist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious game balance."

...of SCIENCE! posted:

Reading "Pathologic 2, a game that isn't fun on purpose" with the same intonation as "The Joker, a clown that thinks that crime is funny".

I'm so glad I bailed on the original after an hour because if I had put up with hours and hours of tedium for the ultimate message of "nothing in this game was real, it was all a bunch of children playing with toys...JUST LIKE VIDEO GAMES, AMIRITE???" I would have probably had a Russian literature happy ending IRL on the spot.

That's not the real ending.

goferchan
Feb 8, 2004

It's 2006. I am taking 276 yeti furs from the goodies hoard.

Blattdorf posted:

Demoncrawl is going to have Online Multiplayer.

Lmao that rules

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Justin_Brett
Oct 23, 2012

GAMERDOME put down LOSER
I'll probably get it five minutes after making this post but this room in Little Nightmares II where you need to play Red-Light Green-Light with three of the mannequins is driving me loving crazy. I've died close to twenty times on it, I don't know what it wants me to do beyond maybe getting them all right behind me, but even then sometimes they just ignore the flashlight beam.

Dreadful momentum killer.

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