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OwlFancier posted:"when you tell people to gently caress off for being racist you're actually denying them the opportunity to learn, which they are all definitely interested in doing" me: the world's biggest rube. The biggest complaint this thread gets is that it's a closed shop, and that people not toeing the exact party line get hounded out before they even get any explanation about why their views are poo poo. It's better now than it was 3-4 years ago - in part because the events of the last couple of years have tended to widen the ideological views some thread regulars hold - but it's still often the case that the first response to someone coming in with poo poo views is to assume they're either trolling, or an irredeemable oval office. The point that guy is making in the video is that not everyone who holds x-ist views does so from a position of hatred. There are plenty of people who hold problematic views because it's the only thing they've been exposed to, and telling them to gently caress off in the first instance means there is no chance for them to change their views. That's not to say that everyone making n-word jokes could be put on the road to Domestos, but some of them can. And telling them to gently caress off just means they're never going to listen to you again. And isn't like 75% of how far-right groups recruit members by being nice to them? Regardless of how racist the person is in the first place?
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Feb 15, 2021 00:46
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Except when you explain to them that their views are poo poo they haul off and whine and say they're being canceled. Because it isn't about "debate" or whatever it is about exercise of their, personal, individual power to say whatever they think without having to conscience any disagreement. "Debate" is when you let them talk and agree with them whenever and wherever they want to, they believe they have a right to intrude upon anybody's time or space and pontificate whatever idiotic poo poo dribbled out of their brain hole today. You're not going to somehow make them believe in some notion of sincere debate because you were credulous enough to take them at their word. It isn't how any part of society works, you're not obligated to listen to people and validate their ideas, suggesting you need to do that is absolutely ridiculous, nobody lives like that, and the argument of "well you have to be nice to them or they'll join the nazis" is still as stupid as it ever was, people are right wing because it's what they want to be. The desperate desire to frame it as some sort of failure of the left is word for word the exact poo poo starmer and co trot out to explain why they want to do the poo poo they always wanted to do. It doesn't matter if people believe lovely things "from a position of hatred" as I'm quite sure 90% of people who support lovely things don't think they're being hateful, or whatever. And I don't give a poo poo one way or the other why they do what they do, the point is they know what they want. Nobody goes out into the world desperately looking to have their mind changed about anything on a regular basis, they walk around belieiving what they believe and are intrinsically hostile to any challenge to that, and the right wing position is very, very simply "every single thing you have ever felt remotely uncomfortable about believing, it's right, you're right to think it, it is your ungrateful children, your peers with affirming social relationships, the people who want to change things which suggests this isn't the most perfect of all worlds, they are the ones who are wrong, you're right". And that way of thinking is intrinsically hostile to leftism, it can only possibly support right wing reaction or status quo liberal shittiness. It transcends conventional political ideologies and drives directly to the heart of the matter and validates the individual existing in society as is. It is saying, fundamentally, you should not have to think about your place in society. And anyone or anything that threatens to make you, is wrong. Which is why it aligns perfectly with every flavour of reactionary shittiness at any given time, because they are all grounded, in part or whole, in the same thought process, every time people of need come together to build a positive change, there are a horde of dribbling idiots frothing at the mouth and clamouring that they don't like it, they're happy the way they are, why are you trying to take away my freedom, why are you talking down the things I like, why do you want to destroy the institutions that validate me and my thoughts? It is the distilled essence of reaction. They aren't looking for a hug and for you to validate them, they already have far more validation than you could possibly offer them, because they have become perfectly mentally shaped to fit into the society that exists. You, and everything you stand for, are nothing but a threat to their peace of mind. They may be self aware of this to greater or lesser degrees, but the pressure of that fact is always there. How many of you have been denied validation by society? How many have had some aspect of your person, or perhaps your entire whole, spat on and discarded? How many of you came to your politics today because it tells you why you aren't in the wrong for the way you are, for the way you think? If you had not been denied, if you had not seen the world set itself against you, if you had not realized that there would never be a home for you unless you could build it, would you think the way you do now? How ready would you be to accept what you accept now, if you liked the way the world is? If you loved the flag and the troops and the country's glorious past? If you thought men should be men and women should be women, if you felt all warm and fuzzy when you thought about the queen's christmas message. If you could drape yourself in the blanket of these proud and ancient institutions and feel that you were a part of them, that they loved you because you were a proud british citizen? You can not offer these people anything, they do not want to be a part of what you hope to build, and never will, unless all of the things they derive security from now are taken away from them, and you don't have the power to do that. And even if you did there is every chance they would rather look to their precious authority figures to bring it back to them. I do not have time for fools and grifters desperate to explain why you should give them attention because they know what's wrong with the left. Or to act as is the raw use of institutional power would somehow go away if the left was nicer to lovely people. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Feb 15, 2021 |
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Feb 15, 2021 00:55
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i dont really have a lot of time for people whose relentless first response to people telling them how hard they are finding things is to tell them you dont care about holidays and so neither should they and infact they are selfish and want to kill you the horrible bastards. Someone else said it, its a horrible lack of empathy.
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Feb 15, 2021 01:18
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i am sorry you feel that way 
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Feb 15, 2021 01:20
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thx
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Feb 15, 2021 01:22
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radmonger posted:Yeah there was lots of amazing stuff, like the connection between Discord, the Bavarian Illuminati and JFK. I get the suspicion that there's a bit of The Economist effect where there's a lot of surface level analysis that seems right and then it runs into something that really doesn't seem the correct takeaway and then you wonder a bit about the rest, but it tells a good story. The bit about the Opium War in the fifth (?) episode seemed the most off though. He correctly points out that it was a major theme in both Dengist anti-Western propaganda and late 19th c Western anti-Chinese propaganda, but then uncritically goes with the 20th century line (which he says himself is a central plank of the Dengist propaganda) that it was all about drugs. Which I get the sense he then wanted to link into oxycontin and the American opioid crisis, but doesn't really go anywhere with. There's some other historical views on that which I feel would have been worth investigating, like that amidst the arguments in the Chinese Imperial court (which was split between a liberal faction that wanted an internal opium market and a moralizer faction that saw it as a foreign threat) there was a whole separate issue going on, that the majority of the Qing silver deficit was due to internal corruption, mostly lost in the bureaucracies and armies of the south and outlying regions, and the opium trade presented an ideal opportunity to cover for that with [synth cover of Lady In Red over jifs of Nigel Farage and dancing Maoist soldiers] a moral panic about foreign influence. That's not the whole picture, but it's one that decenters the British (which fits better at the start) and would segue well into the final episode about land and hierarchy corruption in China rather than the opioid sideline that went nowhere (I expected at least something on China fentanyl precursor dark webs or something). Also a missed opportunity to point out that master logician Boole died because he refused to carry an umbrella during a rainstorm, and the ending on "but maybe individualism might make something new to save itself idk" felt a bit directionless, but a good tale overall and some excellent places to start digging.
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Feb 15, 2021 01:51
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I spent valentines day cooking, then we curled up on the sofa and read about the bubonic plague together and drank chambord. A good day. P.S. If you want to go on holiday, fine. I don't and won't. You're a twat if you actually book one this year and I will laugh at you but gently caress I don't blame people for *wanting* to. Holidays are awesome and everyone should go explore other cultures as much as they can. Just... Don't right now? Please?
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Feb 15, 2021 02:14
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Im really pleased you can spend time with your partner on valentines day. Other people might need to travel, much like a holiday, to do that but theyre told they are laughable twats to want to do that. Which is fine.
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Feb 15, 2021 02:21
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are holidays in the uk ok because we have a family one booked for late may 
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Feb 15, 2021 02:24
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Breath Ray posted:are holidays in the uk ok because we have a family one booked for late may I have an airbnb voucher for over £200 which has to be used by end of December (for a long weekend booked in January 2020). They wouldn't give a cash refund because I couldn't prove cancelled travel plans. The fact that the break was booked in Cambridge for June (for a specific purpose which was then cancelled) and as a non-driver it was physically impossible for me to get to Cambridge from my location by public transport due to cancellation of bus services etc, and who on earth would book travel within the UK 5 months ahead of a weekend break? You can't even book trains more than I think 3 months in advance!) matters not. I'm hoping that I will be able to use that voucher this year (or that airbnb might extend them into next year and if they're going to I wish they'd blooming well hurry up and say) because I have lost so much money in the past 12 months that the thought of another £200 down the drain is just sickening.
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Feb 15, 2021 02:37
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You might find you have an argument under the precedent of frustrated contract dating from 1902 and Edward VII’s coronation when some dude booked a room with a view to watch said spectacle only to find the route changed and his booking useless. It doesnt rely on legality, the government dictating that holidays are banned, if its clearly obvious the porupose for which the trip or booking was booked is 'frustrated' then you might be able to claim the same reprieve from contract that some dude did back then.
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Feb 15, 2021 02:44
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radmonger posted:Yeah there was lots of amazing stuff, like the connection between Discord, the Bavarian Illuminati and JFK. I thought he exaggerated the sinister intent behind Pokemon Go quite a lot.
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Feb 15, 2021 02:44
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Breath Ray posted:are holidays in the uk ok because we have a family one booked for late may You might be indirectly responsible for people dying, nothing major
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Feb 15, 2021 02:46
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Comrade Fakename posted:I thought he exaggerated the sinister intent behind Pokemon Go quite a lot.
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Feb 15, 2021 02:47
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NotJustANumber99 posted:You might find you have an argument under the precedent of frustrated contract dating from 1902 and Edward VII’s coronation when some dude booked a room with a view to watch said spectacle only to find the route changed and his booking useless. It doesnt rely on legality, the government dictating that holidays are banned, if its clearly obvious the porupose for which the trip or booking was booked is 'frustrated' then you might be able to claim the same reprieve from contract that some dude did back then. Worth checking out - thanks!
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Feb 15, 2021 02:52
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Guavanaut posted:It was originally invented by Prince Grigory Aleksandrovich Pokemon-Tauricheski to get crowds of people in fake locations. I've played PG before going to sleep just now. I have no insights to offer other than that. Well maybe except that in terms of microtransactions it's one of the most benign games I've heard of on smartphones, which does make you wonder where they make their money on it.
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Feb 15, 2021 02:52
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:I have an airbnb voucher for over £200 which has to be used by end of December (for a long weekend booked in January 2020). They wouldn't give a cash refund because I couldn't prove cancelled travel plans. is it transferable? im sure someone here will be needign it at some point this year or i have a friend i can visit
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Feb 15, 2021 03:44
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Comrade Fakename posted:I thought he exaggerated the sinister intent behind Pokemon Go quite a lot. Haven’t watched it yet, what does he say? It’s well known that Ingress, the first game from Pokémon Go’s makers was supported by Google to get data to fill in Google Map’s idea of where footpaths are by tracking where people walk. But I don’t think there’s anything to Pokemon Go besides ‘make a fuckton of money’
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Feb 15, 2021 08:37
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:
Next to nothing. Also when the NHS prescribe ibuprofen it's usually 500mg tablets, when the strongest you can get off the shelf is 400mg.
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Feb 15, 2021 09:10
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Jedit posted:Next to nothing. Also when the NHS prescribe ibuprofen it's usually 500mg tablets, when the strongest you can get off the shelf is 400mg. This reminds me of a thing I learned, where there's occasionally an OUTRAGE about people being prescribed paracetamol on the NHS "when you can get it for 12p at the shops". The reality being that some people, often with a chronic condition, need to take a lot more than it says on the packet every single day, so they'd need to trek round the shops buying the maximum 32 pills several times a week. Instead their doctor prescribes them a large amount, having checked they're not at risk of misusing it, and keeping an eye on their liver. Just another "common sense" rant busted by reality.
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Feb 15, 2021 09:23
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Breath Ray posted:is it transferable? im sure someone here will be needign it at some point this year or i have a friend i can visit No. All I have is an email saying next time I book, they'll knock the value off the cost of the booking. It's not even visible in my airbnb account. Bobstar posted:This reminds me of a thing I learned, where there's occasionally an OUTRAGE about people being prescribed paracetamol on the NHS "when you can get it for 12p at the shops". The reality being that some people, often with a chronic condition, need to take a lot more than it says on the packet every single day, so they'd need to trek round the shops buying the maximum 32 pills several times a week. Instead their doctor prescribes them a large amount, having checked they're not at risk of misusing it, and keeping an eye on their liver. Yes I agree with that. If you have a condition like that or perhaps live miles out in the countryside and getting to the doc/pharmacy is a trek then yes by all means a prescription. I do recall at some point in my past needing a considerable amount of aspirin and having to go in and out of several different shops to get 32 x 300mg aspirins in as many shops as I could! (Aspirin is my 'painkiller of choice' for general needs.)
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Feb 15, 2021 09:30
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Jedit posted:Next to nothing. Also when the NHS prescribe ibuprofen it's usually 500mg tablets, when the strongest you can get off the shelf is 400mg. Disagree here, the dispensing charge for community pharmacy costs more than the drug tariff. Adds up costing a lot more but only if it's collected. My area takes a sensible (I think) view that if it's short term (say you've twisted your ankle) buy it yourself but long term (you have chronic arthritis) them a prescription is reasonable. Most of our anti-inflammatory prescribing ends up being naproxen though because by the time folks talk to us it's usually after they've tried ibuprofen and found it lacking.
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Feb 15, 2021 09:36
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Kin posted:Well, actually this is why i'm asking the question. We got Nest thermostats installed today but the engineer left the schedule for the hot water as 9am to 9pm or something but i dunno if it actually needs to be on that long. Our thermostats don't give two fucks what the indoor temp is, don't even got one. It only goes by the outdoor temperature and a heating curve we adjust on the heater so that the house is kept at a nice consistent temp (around 18-19C). It's actually a kinda nice system because the base heat doesn't fluctuate wildly if you open some windows or set a fire for additional heat doesn't cause it to stop doing it's job. We can therefore keep the heater set to 18-19C and make the house warmer using firewood without the two systems fighting each other.
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Feb 15, 2021 09:39
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NotJustANumber99 posted:You might find you have an argument under the precedent of frustrated contract dating from 1902 and Edward VII’s coronation when some dude booked a room with a view to watch said spectacle only to find the route changed and his booking useless. It doesnt rely on legality, the government dictating that holidays are banned, if its clearly obvious the porupose for which the trip or booking was booked is 'frustrated' then you might be able to claim the same reprieve from contract that some dude did back then. Not quite sure what you mean by being able to prove that the trip was cancelled, but if there's a term of the contract to the effect that you can get your money back if that's the case, then relying on this would be your best bet. Issuing via money claims online is easy if that is the case, feel free to PM if you want a hand. Do not try to rely on frustration though. There is a reasonable argument that could be made, but it's pretty complex & there is absolutely no way in hell* it would be accepted by a small claims court. I published an article on this exact thing (frustration due to Covid) last year. Breath Ray posted:is it transferable? im sure someone here will be needign it at some point this year or i have a friend i can visit e2: *this was too strongly stated, you might get lucky with the judge being willing to fudge the rules, but it means going through all the rigmarole of suing & paying court fees so I would advise against it Borrovan fucked around with this message at 09:49 on Feb 15, 2021 |
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Feb 15, 2021 09:42
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Mebh posted:I spent valentines day cooking, then we curled up on the sofa and read about the bubonic plague together and drank chambord. I completely forgot about this stupid rear end holiday, but the kids made a nutella sandwich for mom so I guess that covers it.
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Feb 15, 2021 09:45
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Borrovan posted:I don't have time to explain what's wrong with this because of work, but frustration wouldn't apply here, sorry Jaeluni. Trip being cancelled: it was if travel plans to be cancelled so if I had bought a plane / ferry or presumably train ticket in advance (which I hadn't as the trip was within the UK and booked in January for a June weekend).  about the frustration thing. Maybe airbnb will extend the 'voucher'. I had an email extending my never-used coachcard by another 6 months.Re your ed: yeah I wouldn't bother going to court, costs would eat up any benefit even if Your Worship judged in my favour. Learned that lesson the hard way over an issue a few years ago. Valentine's Day report: my sister paypaled me £1 to spend on something nice. So I bought a 99p tub of icecream from Home Bargains. Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 09:56 on Feb 15, 2021 |
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Feb 15, 2021 09:53
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Please don't interact with Breath Ray as he is an actual nazi.
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Feb 15, 2021 10:10
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Miftan posted:Please don't interact with Breath Ray as he is an actual nazi. Yes.
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Feb 15, 2021 10:24
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Miftan posted:Please don't interact with Breath Ray as he is an actual nazi. Noted
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Feb 15, 2021 10:49
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Noxville posted:Haven’t watched it yet, what does he say? He basically implies that it was an elaborate scheme to manipulate the masses, and in particular direct them to convene in areas of Google's choosing. But this was a fantasy. In reality, in PG in order to battle the Pokemon and pick up other assorted items you have to go to "gyms" which are placed in locations of local interest (which were generated from Ingress). But they could also put a gym, for instance, in front of the local McDonalds because McDonalds paid them. So it's not like Curtis was completely wrong, but he was really overstating it in classic style, showing a Pokemon Go promo vid overlaid with ominous music from John Carpenter or something. In general though the series is excellent, everyone should watch it.
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Feb 15, 2021 11:30
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Anyone that has ever played Pokemon Go could tell you that Niantic are far too incompetent to be masterminding any kind of scheme.
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Feb 15, 2021 11:36
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Thats also the thesis of Surveillance Capitalism which is a heavily researched book rather than a flashy tv show. I think the theory is relevant because it is real in that the digital world has collided with the real and while we won't be mindcontrolled by Pokegyms it absolutely creates and directs desires and behaviours which, once understood, will be used to increase capitalist profits. If you look at Google maps and see that a road is red which you think means it'll be slower than another road so you change which one you take then you haven't seen or experienced the real road conditions have you? Google understanding the mechanics of that decision (as we then probably take our phone with us so they know exactly what route we did take) while we think we've just passively taken in information and made a good decision is a huge asymmetry in information and control. Vvvv woo, I keep posting about this and no one else ever seems to have read it before now lol namesake fucked around with this message at 12:07 on Feb 15, 2021 |
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Feb 15, 2021 11:54
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You should all read Shoshanna Zuboff’s ‘The Age of Surveillance Capitalism’. It has a part about PG. The people behind it openly admit that it’s an advanced data gathering and behaviour manipulation experiment. A sort of proof of concept of sorts for a more advanced location and movement pattern based advertising and behaviour manipulation model.
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Feb 15, 2021 12:00
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While I'm sure the developers (and Google especially) had some very high-level and fancy ideas behind Pokemon Go, in general I believe gamification has basically failed as any kind of mass social influence theory. There is a limit to what you can goad people into doing with fictional doo-dads as bait.
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Feb 15, 2021 12:09
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Lol https://twitter.com/SolHughesWriter/status/1361271982101258240?s=19
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Feb 15, 2021 12:18
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Comrade Fakename posted:He basically implies that it was an elaborate scheme to manipulate the masses, and in particular direct them to convene in areas of Google's choosing. Random anecdote. When PG released I was working as a manager at a Jewish security company (as in, specifically working for the Jewish community with CST funding). In one day I had over twenty calls from somewhat crusty old orthodox rabbis about ‘mysterious crowds of people’ gathering outside their synagogues (as they were all local landmarks). Trying to explain what Pokemon Go was was interesting to say the least when A. They were all to a man tech-illiterate and B. I don’t speak Hebrew or Yiddish and some of them barely spoke English.. well it was a mission. To be fair, most of them found it funny once I was able to get the gist of it across. But the phrase ‘terrorist flash-mob’ was used at least once.
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Feb 15, 2021 12:19
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Comrade Fakename posted:While I'm sure the developers (and Google especially) had some very high-level and fancy ideas behind Pokemon Go, in general I believe gamification has basically failed as any kind of mass social influence theory. There is a limit to what you can goad people into doing with fictional doo-dads as bait. Problem is that this isn't just putting an anime shell on a step counter or something, there's an interior drive to digitize information from the real world to understand it for marketing purposes and as a reflex of that, to eliminate non-digital behaviours as they cannot be monitored, either literally by forcing monitoring on it or pretending it isn't happening when making decisions. An inability to accurately influence behaviours won't stop the drive to digitize everything and ignore everything that can't be, which will exclude lots of people from what businesses and governments see as 'real'. We're already seeing it with how many things need an app to access - no smartphone or an old smartphone or no tech skills? Well then you simply can't access that service.
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Feb 15, 2021 12:28
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Normal poo poo LBC https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1361224424855400453?s=19
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Feb 15, 2021 12:28
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Camrath posted:To be fair, most of them found it funny once I was able to get the gist of it across. But the phrase ‘terrorist flash-mob’ was used at least once. It's exactly this kind of flippancy that allows Team Rocket to get away with so much trouble
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Feb 15, 2021 12:32
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namesake posted:Problem is that this isn't just putting an anime shell on a step counter or something, there's an interior drive to digitize information from the real world to understand it for marketing purposes and as a reflex of that, to eliminate non-digital behaviours as they cannot be monitored, either literally by forcing monitoring on it or pretending it isn't happening when making decisions. An inability to accurately influence behaviours won't stop the drive to digitize everything and ignore everything that can't be, which will exclude lots of people from what businesses and governments see as 'real'. We're already seeing it with how many things need an app to access - no smartphone or an old smartphone or no tech skills? Well then you simply can't access that service. I have a small utility company that do not provide service to my home sending me bills at the moment. They have no phone number and literally the only way to contact them is do an in-app chat with an AI chat bot and follow the conversation round in circles until the bot gives up and refers you to an agent. The agent will then contact you, again only via text chat, at some point within the following 3 days. Meanwhile I have £150 of outstanding bills to this company that they're sending me threatening letters about. How that poo poo can be legal is beyond me, and I'm in the probably small percentage of the population able to navigate this stuff well enough to contact them.
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Feb 15, 2021 12:32
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