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DarkHorse posted:You can also have people who aren't technically trans but just something like intersex (XXY, XYY, etc) assigned female at birth, identify as female, yet have unusually high testosterone still. There was a big controversy recently because such a woman won lots of competitions; should she be disqualified because she had an (all-"natural") chemical advantage? How is that different from someone having genes for more efficient respiration, or blood cell production, or balance/strength/stamina, or whatever else? The swimmer Michael Phelps comes to mind with the freakishly long wingspan and broad paddle-feet, among other characteristics. If you were going to custom-build a human for fast swimming he'd be the blueprint.
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Feb 15, 2021 19:46
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I'm not at all surprised that boomers think gender works like dual citizenship in the Olympics.
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Feb 15, 2021 20:01
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BiggerBoat posted:Semi unrelated, I went to a Pearl Jam concert in Jacksonville, FL and a group of about 5 very drunk rednecks sitting a few rows in front of us tried to get a "USA" chant going after "Even Flow" or "Jeremy" or whatever the hit was. Surprised it didn't catch, tbh, and they tried twice. It was like watching someone futilely trying to start The Wave at a football game. My friend pointed to them both times, turned to me and asked "what does that even mean?" I dunno, starting a USA chant in response to a song about a school shooting seems pretty apt to me 
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Feb 15, 2021 20:06
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iirc a lot of differences in performance seen in sex-segregated sports could also be attributed to things like height, weight class, etc. If they're concerned about a dainty person competing with a huge person, that's an issue that can be addressed without segregating sports by sex. They never seem to worry about all the short boys with slight builds in high school who might be interested in sports if they weren't trying to keep up with dudes who have legs twice as long.
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Feb 15, 2021 20:14
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They think the difference between the wimpiest boy and the strongest woman of a cohort is greater than than the variation between women of different sizes. They'll bring up examples like the women's world cup soccer team getting beaten by high school boys for example.
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Feb 15, 2021 20:28
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Everett False posted:iirc a lot of differences in performance seen in sex-segregated sports could also be attributed to things like height, weight class, etc. If they're concerned about a dainty person competing with a huge person, that's an issue that can be addressed without segregating sports by sex. They never seem to worry about all the short boys with slight builds in high school who might be interested in sports if they weren't trying to keep up with dudes who have legs twice as long. That would be the most logical thing, but that doesn't really vibe with how Americans view sports. We as a culture love seeing the gifted beat the poo poo out of normal people to the point where it is no contest. Sports aren't for fitness, personal happiness, or enrichment, they are a show of force and superiority. So something where similarly gifted people are winning or losing on practice and grit isn't going to fly. It's not enough to have the team win, individuals have to win within the team. Its not enough to be victorious, the same person has to win over and over. "Big fish in a small pond" is the entire basis of what sport stardom is in a lot of places.
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Feb 15, 2021 20:48
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CuddleCryptid posted:That would be the most logical thing, but that doesn't really vibe with how Americans view sports. We as a culture love seeing the gifted beat the poo poo out of normal people to the point where it is no contest. Sports aren't for fitness, personal happiness, or enrichment, they are a show of force and superiority. So something where similarly gifted people are winning or losing on practice and grit isn't going to fly. I think you're conflating a few things here. I was on the track team in high school and was godawful. I could barely make it around the track without kicking over hurdles in the process (I was/am a pretty stereotypical nerd). But my times slowly got better, people encouraged me, and we all had fun together, or at least as much fun as one can have while running around a track. Plenty of people play pick up games of things like touch football, or frisbee golf, or basketball, or soccer, or tennis, etc. Now yes, when you're looking at who is the best and competing over the narrow title of champion, then it gets more cutthroat.
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Feb 15, 2021 20:58
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Lemniscate Blue posted:The swimmer Michael Phelps comes to mind with the freakishly long wingspan and broad paddle-feet, among other characteristics. If you were going to custom-build a human for fast swimming he'd be the blueprint. He also produces lactic acid at like half the rate of baseline average. He literally can use his muscles longer than most people, even most other athletes. But, since he's a white cishet man, nobody is wanting his time asterisked or for him to take chemical adjustments to bring his all-natural advantage closer to Normal
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Feb 15, 2021 21:05
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Panfilo posted:I've heard some claim "just have a third category and let them compete there" but I bet as soon as funding gets properly distributed across all three "categories" they'll throw a huge shitfit about how liberals are gutting funding for women's sports. Alternatively they'll likely try to have the public institution wither on the vine by boycotting participation (like how a lot of white families pulled their kids out of public schools when they became racially integrated). A third category would just be some separate but equal poo poo that continues to deny their identities and forces them into being "Other." "Ok Susan, I know you keep telling us you're a girl, but we're going to separate you from the girls and put you with all the other boys who think they're girls and treat you like a spectacle."
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Feb 15, 2021 21:13
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Dirk the Average posted:I think you're conflating a few things here. I was on the track team in high school and was godawful. I could barely make it around the track without kicking over hurdles in the process (I was/am a pretty stereotypical nerd). But my times slowly got better, people encouraged me, and we all had fun together, or at least as much fun as one can have while running around a track. Plenty of people play pick up games of things like touch football, or frisbee golf, or basketball, or soccer, or tennis, etc. I guess that's the division between athletics and SPORTS.
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Feb 15, 2021 21:19
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Everett False posted:iirc a lot of differences in performance seen in sex-segregated sports could also be attributed to things like height, weight class, etc. If they're concerned about a dainty person competing with a huge person, that's an issue that can be addressed without segregating sports by sex. They never seem to worry about all the short boys with slight builds in high school who might be interested in sports if they weren't trying to keep up with dudes who have legs twice as long. Panfilo posted:They think the difference between the wimpiest boy and the strongest woman of a cohort is greater than than the variation between women of different sizes. They'll bring up examples like the women's world cup soccer team getting beaten by high school boys for example. it could work for some sports but it would need refining, because while the above example is extreme, you can just look up high school only track and field stuff and its pretty drat evident there is a significant difference. It would have to be like 150lb women in a bracket with 130lb men or something. This only really works for individual competitions like track or weightlifting or whatever as well. Most team sports already have either straight up body type segregation like in football, or a breadth of body types represented like hockey or basketball wherein those individuals tend to play to their strengths. The issue is there are just not many women who could contribute on a men's team, and having those few play with men lowers the overall representation of the women's sport and further relegates it as second class. Fundamentally, one of the problems is most of the currently popular sports were designed by men, for men, and thus reward players that fit size, strength, and speed requirements that are more common amongst males. While i think curling owns and would love to see it popularized with mixed men/women teams, there is not much of a demand for that. Baseball also could be ripe for a mixed system, given that not every player needs to be a dinger machine, and individual skill would be far more useful the further away you get from the pros. But instead we have relegated women to softball so there are just not that many girls that grow up playing baseball, even if a bunch of them could be more consistent hitters than the boys. of course no one currently complaining about any of this is thinking this way, and is instead entirely motivated by transphobia. i think in general just letting the kid choose where they are more comfortable competing will work 95% of the time, and then we just have to figure out the remainder where something does not work due to the players skill relative to their peers.
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Feb 15, 2021 21:23
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Maybe school funding shouldn't be so heavily tied to goddamn sports so people wouldn't care as much. Alternatively, parents could stop trying to live vicariously through their kids and then maybe they wouldn't care as much about them winning or losing and instead just appreciate the social benefits of a team activity. The way in which fully-grown adults treat HS/college sports just seems so excessive.
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Feb 15, 2021 21:32
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Panfilo posted:I thought maybe Biden passed some trans friendly legislation that kicked off this outrage? It's the only thing I know is different. They were mad that some HS track star didn't get a scholarship years ago I vaguely remember so I was trying to understand why they'd bring it up now. The fourth executive order Biden signed was titled "Preventing and Combating Discrimination on the Basis of Gender Identity or Sexual Orientation." Among other things, it mentioned that kids shouldn't be prohibited from participating in sports due to their gender identity. So that's why you're seeing so much about it all of a sudden. BiggerBoat posted:Semi unrelated, I went to a Pearl Jam concert in Jacksonville, FL and a group of about 5 very drunk rednecks sitting a few rows in front of us tried to get a "USA" chant going after "Even Flow" or "Jeremy" or whatever the hit was. Surprised it didn't catch, tbh, and they tried twice. It was like watching someone futilely trying to start The Wave at a football game. My friend pointed to them both times, turned to me and asked "what does that even mean?" Reminder that one time Rush Limbaugh talked about how he went to the Super Bowl, and when the military jets did a flyover after the national anthem he jumped out of his seat and shook his friend and said "How could anybody ever vote Democrat after that?!"
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Feb 15, 2021 22:26
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yeah, same type of people had trouble giving up the black people they owned years ago too.
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Feb 15, 2021 22:50
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Twelve by Pies posted:The fourth executive order Biden signed was titled "Preventing and Combating Discrimination on the Basis of Gender Identity or Sexual Orientation." Among other things, it mentioned that kids shouldn't be prohibited from participating in sports due to their gender identity. So that's why you're seeing so much about it all of a sudden. This is what I was looking for, thank you. Are you familiar with the lawsuit they bring up with the high school track players? Did they win the lawsuit? How close was the race that the cis girl lost, was it like a difference of 0.00000001 seconds or somthing that they'd try to claim a tiny advantage? Did the trans girl that beat her get some full ride scholarship? What about the plaintiff, did she end up going to her choice college anyway?
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Feb 16, 2021 00:46
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Cognac McCarthy posted:I dunno, starting a USA chant in response to a song about a school shooting seems pretty apt to me God drat Grimdude posted:Maybe school funding shouldn't be so heavily tied to goddamn sports so people wouldn't care as much. I think it's the other way around but maybe not. Meaning that the funding is tied to that because it's the only thing they can get parents to care much about. Not sure what's cause and what's effect here honestly.
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Feb 16, 2021 01:12
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BiggerBoat posted:I think it's the other way around but maybe not. Meaning that the funding is tied to that because it's the only thing they can get parents to care much about. Not sure what's cause and what's effect here honestly. Yeah that's what I meant basically.
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Feb 16, 2021 01:37
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jivjov posted:He also produces lactic acid at like half the rate of baseline average. He literally can use his muscles longer than most people, even most other athletes. But, since he's a white cishet man, nobody is wanting his time asterisked or for him to take chemical adjustments to bring his all-natural advantage closer to Normal Wait, what? Why do we not have a global Michael Phelps stud program???
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Feb 16, 2021 03:09
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Barudak posted:Wait, what? https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...a539_story.html Some fun reading for you.
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Feb 16, 2021 03:31
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BiggerBoat posted:Semi unrelated, I went to a Pearl Jam concert in Jacksonville, FL and a group of about 5 very drunk rednecks sitting a few rows in front of us tried to get a "USA" chant going after "Even Flow" or "Jeremy" or whatever the hit was. Surprised it didn't catch, tbh, and they tried twice. It was like watching someone futilely trying to start The Wave at a football game. My friend pointed to them both times, turned to me and asked "what does that even mean?" You people have loving jet fighter flyovers for Texas highschool football or whatever the gently caress. I've stopped wondering what the gently caress any of it is supposed to mean a long time ago. It's incoherent gibberish which translates to "might makes right, we are mighty, so we are the most righteous, and gently caress you for trying to even get a word in". Virtually the entirety of your popular culture is this. And the hegemony is so great that this is at the same time one your greatest export products. Nearly every human being on the planet not only is exposed to this on the regular, but actively seeks it out to expose themselves to more of it. And yet still this level of domination goes unrecognized or is deemed not enough by the chuds, because they don't get to literally be a boot on not someone else's neck, cus we all know the US does this on the regular too, but no, *everyone else's* neck all the time.
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Feb 16, 2021 09:12
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Cool.
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Feb 16, 2021 13:03
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Orange Devil posted:You people have loving jet fighter flyovers for Texas highschool football or whatever the gently caress. I've stopped wondering what the gently caress any of it is supposed to mean a long time ago. It's incoherent gibberish which translates to "might makes right, we are mighty, so we are the most righteous, and gently caress you for trying to even get a word in". Virtually the entirety of your popular culture is this. And the hegemony is so great that this is at the same time one your greatest export products. Nearly every human being on the planet not only is exposed to this on the regular, but actively seeks it out to expose themselves to more of it. And yet still this level of domination goes unrecognized or is deemed not enough by the chuds, because they don't get to literally be a boot on not someone else's neck, cus we all know the US does this on the regular too, but no, *everyone else's* neck all the time. Nice meltdown
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Feb 16, 2021 14:31
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quote:I still love my democrat friends and family but, you see it your way and I see it mine. You saw Trump’s arrogance, I saw Trump’s confidence. You saw Trump’s nationalism, I saw Trump’s patriotism. You heard Trump’s unsophisticated words, I heard Trump’s honesty. Bolded part is my favorite!
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Feb 16, 2021 14:38
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turning on Breaking Bad and then flying into a patriotic fury at the mexican characters because of my american pop culture brain
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Feb 16, 2021 14:39
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Boomers love to tell their kids, "you don't know what poor is! I grew up poor!" and then tell you stories about all the insanely dangerous schoolyard games they played while they were being educated at a private catholic school.
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Feb 16, 2021 14:57
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Lib and let die posted:Boomers love to tell their kids, "you don't know what poor is! I grew up poor!" and then tell you stories about all the insanely dangerous schoolyard games they played while they were being educated at a private catholic school. They like to claim the struggles of their parents, either Greatest generation or silents, who survived the Great Depression or fought through WWII (or both! like my grandpa) even though they were given the very best period of American prosperity, lived through the hedonism of the 60s, then handed everything over to republicans in the 70s and 80s and are upset that now things keep getting worse but it can't be their fault!
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Feb 16, 2021 15:09
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I'm already mad about zoomers blaming millennials for stuff. It's not our fault! Boomers have been dominant my whole life! By the time millennials have any power it will be too late to matter.
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Feb 16, 2021 15:19
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To be fair, Mark Zuckerberg is a millennial.
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Feb 16, 2021 15:25
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It's funny how quickly facebook went from being a hot teen and twenties thing to being boomer wasteland
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Feb 16, 2021 15:42
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Lib and let die posted:Boomers love to tell their kids, "you don't know what poor is! I grew up poor!" and then tell you stories about all the insanely dangerous schoolyard games they played while they were being educated at a private catholic school. "We were spanked and we turned out fine! Our dad's would even break out the belt when we were in real trouble. You snowflakes were just too coddled and never saw any real discipline! That's what's wrong with America these days!" - A thrice divorced long-term alcoholic who only ever got to see his kids every other weekend and is mostly known for mass email forwarding photos of sniper kill aftermath and a pickup truck slathered with crooked 'Trump 2020: Make Liberals Cry Again' bumper stickers.
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Feb 16, 2021 15:43
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Cross posted from USPOL and think it's relevant. https://twitter.com/reidepstein/status/1361433979036061704 Jesus Christ
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Feb 16, 2021 15:43
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Maybe in the long run Trump's lasting legacy is going to be splitting the current GOP into the far right authoritarian trump cultists and an actually functional right-leaning party that I'll still probably disagree with on most things but isn't literally evil incarnate.
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Feb 16, 2021 15:52
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jivjov posted:Maybe in the long run Trump's lasting legacy is going to be splitting the current GOP into the far right authoritarian trump cultists and an actually functional right-leaning party that I'll still probably disagree with on most things but isn't literally evil incarnate. You mean the Democrats? (Who are Good! I don't want people to think I'm trying to say that the Democrats are bad, they're actually good in that they're not Republicans!)
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Feb 16, 2021 16:12
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The functional right leaning party is the Democrats.
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Feb 16, 2021 16:12
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jivjov posted:an actually functional right-leaning party that [...] isn't literally evil incarnate. Does not compute.
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Feb 16, 2021 16:13
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tek79 posted:"We were spanked and we turned out fine! Our dad's would even break out the belt when we were in real trouble. You snowflakes were just too coddled and never saw any real discipline! That's what's wrong with America these days!" Lol and it's pretty much always like this too. Then you get the few times where someone actually says "No you didn't turn out fine though" and are met with an all caps response about how much money this person makes and how they love God and are therefore a good and totally healthy person.
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Feb 16, 2021 16:15
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BiggerBoat posted:Cross posted from USPOL and think it's relevant. Transcribing for the lazy (what I wish someone had done for me): quote:Jan. 8, 2021 I've tried to capture the formatting as best as possible. Bold + Underline is for multiple underlining, single underlines are for regular ones. I've marked typos that I recognized, other typos are likely my own; I proofread and corrected several that I introduced, but I very well may have missed some. Anyway, 
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Feb 16, 2021 16:23
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Democrates? Was Pythagoras not available? Also this pretty much drives how abortion has been used as a wedge issue.
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Feb 16, 2021 16:41
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Lib and let die posted:You mean the Democrats? (Who are Good! I don't want people to think I'm trying to say that the Democrats are bad, they're actually good in that they're not Republicans!) 1) the Dems are absolutely bad, and yeah 2) the Dems are already right leaning. So I guess what I meant was a GOP thats further right than theDNC, but not full on cartoonishly evil trumpers. Orange Devil posted:Does not compute. Hey, I'd be willing to at least hear out policy arguments that are actually functional "smaller federal govt, more state jurisdictions" etc. I fundamentally disagree with the idea (your rights shouldn't change from state to state, etc) but it's at least a coherent argument to make
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Feb 16, 2021 16:57
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jivjov posted:Hey, I'd be willing to at least hear out policy arguments that are actually functional "smaller federal govt, more state jurisdictions" etc. I fundamentally disagree with the idea (your rights shouldn't change from state to state, etc) but it's at least a coherent argument to make That's not what "right-wing politics" is though.
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Feb 16, 2021 17:00
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