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what’s up w/ Dottie though
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Feb 16, 2021 16:45
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double negative posted:what’s up w/ Dottie though Probably nothing.
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Feb 16, 2021 16:52
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Phylodox posted:I absolutely think it's Wanda all the way down. Maybe Agnes has magical powers or maybe she's just particularly strong-willed, that may be a plot point later, but I very much doubt she's behind anything. I'm like 99% sure there's someone else that's either controlling Wanda or otherwise manipulating things to egg her on to do all of this. My main reasoning being that I don't think Disney would let them make an Avenger be fully responsible for essentially torturing thousands of people. Wanda has to be somehow at least partially redeemed/absolved of what's happening, and the only way to really do that is if someone else is pulling her strings somehow. double negative posted:what’s up w/ Dottie though
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Feb 16, 2021 16:54
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Cat Army
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Open Source Idiom posted:Probably nothing. I think she may be the person messing with Wanda. When she broke the glass, her blood was red. In the first two episodes color was mostly used for things that don't belong there. She also hasn't been seen since the twins were born.
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Feb 16, 2021 16:55
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Barry Convex posted:(as though there's something wrong with critically evaluating the show on the basis of how Disney/Marvel are choosing to release it; they could have done the Netflix binge model if they wanted to) But the way Disney/Marvel are releasing the show has nothing to do with the quality of the show and will cease to be an issue a month from now. Anyone watching WandaVision for the first time after it's finished will be able to binge it and the actual writing and directing and acting of the show will be the exact same.
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Feb 16, 2021 16:57
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Spacebump posted:I think she may be the person messing with Wanda. When she broke the glass, her blood was red. In the first two episodes color was mostly used for things that don't belong there. She also hasn't been seen since the twins were born. Dottie also wasn't on the board.
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Feb 16, 2021 16:58
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live with fruit posted:But the way Disney/Marvel are releasing the show has nothing to do with the quality of the show and will cease to be an issue a month from now. Anyone watching WandaVision for the first time after it's finished will be able to binge it and the actual writing and directing and acting of the show will be the exact same. imo, this show is better being released weekly. I didn't think so at first, but a lot of the fun has been discussion/theories between episodes. If it had been released all at once, a lot of discussion on this show would be done. I can understand why people want all the episodes out at once, but the way they are released now makes episodes not blend in. Any of the big surprises would have been ruined for a lot of people that couldn't watch it all in one weekend. It's also nice to have something to look forward to once a week.
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Feb 16, 2021 17:03
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Ouhei posted:There's been way too much going on with Agnes for her to just be some townie trapped in there like everyone else. Has there? I can't think of anything uniquely different about her at this point, since Herb, the mailman etc. all seem capable of breaking the constraints of a script and realizing there's more going on and even the people frozen in time appeared to be conscious of it given that one of them was crying. There are other people that SWORD hasn't identified as well as Agnes (such as Dottie and again, the mailman if I recall) either. The only thing unique about her is the amount of focus she gets, and that really doesn't mean anything on it's own beyond that she's a convenient recurring character (both in the show WandaVision and in Wanda's own show) to foist small stuff on to so the episodes keep moving. On the other hand, she seems just as prone to be being controlled as anyone else in the town and I really don't buy the idea that she was just waiting for Vision in the latest episode, unless Vision himself is on a script, despite that being exactly the opposite of his apparent role in the show, because there was no way for Agnes to know Vision would ever interact with her at the intersection. Vision only ever arrived at her by apparent chance, having flown up in to the sky and looked around from an elevated position while checking the town out. Unless Agnes could be guaranteed that he'd not only see her, but choose to interact with her after seeing her, there's no reason she'd be there waiting for him in order to push him along. Which, what exactly did she accomplish even putting aside all that? Vision left the Hex, which was the trend of his current path of questioning what exactly was going on anyway. She didn't even point him to the Hex, or the fact such a thing existed since he tells her that he wants to seek help outside before she ever mentions anything about the outside and prior to that all she did was act kind of shocked. There is almost certainly someone else who helped Wanda set this all up and who is presumably personally benefiting from it all on some level, but it doesn't seem to be Agnes to me.
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Feb 16, 2021 17:05
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Spacebump posted:imo, this show is better being released weekly. I didn't think so at first, but a lot of the fun has been discussion/theories between episodes. If it had been released all at once, a lot of discussion on this show would be done. A bonus of the weekly episodes is that there's going to be new MCU material like 45 weeks a year. That's obviously good for Disney, because then people won't cancel their subscriptions, but it's good for fans too because it's practically nonstop.
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Feb 16, 2021 17:06
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Ouhei posted:I'm like 99% sure there's someone else that's either controlling Wanda or otherwise manipulating things to egg her on to do all of this. My main reasoning being that I don't think Disney would let them make an Avenger be fully responsible for essentially torturing thousands of people. Wanda has to be somehow at least partially redeemed/absolved of what's happening, and the only way to really do that is if someone else is pulling her strings somehow. Or she dies heroically, wiping away her sins. I'm pretty sure the Agnes-Vision scene in this episode was supposed to point us away from assuming she's a secret villain. Vision lifed the curtain for a moment and it turns out she's just another townsperson. She's there in the first few episodes to establish a consistent thread through the decade jumping sitcom mechanic while it's still unclear what kind of show Wandavision is. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Feb 16, 2021 |
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Feb 16, 2021 17:14
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The man in witness protection is Vincent D'Onofrio as Wilson Fisk and will tie in directly to the new Spider-Man film with Kingpin joining the rogues gallery. I base this on nothing but that he was too good.
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Feb 16, 2021 17:14
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the other hand fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Oct 31, 2022 |
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Feb 16, 2021 17:28
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Yeah, Wanda's overcome with grief and suddenly (and unknowingly) possessed of phenomenal cosmic powers. I don't think it's a tremendous stretch from there to have her be redeemed.
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Feb 16, 2021 17:32
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Phylodox posted:Yeah, Wanda's overcome with grief and suddenly (and unknowingly) possessed of phenomenal cosmic powers. I don't think it's a tremendous stretch from there to have her be redeemed. She could, for example, team up with Doctor Strange to fix the problems she created.
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Feb 16, 2021 17:33
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Lid posted:The man in witness protection is Vincent D'Onofrio as Wilson Fisk and will tie in directly to the new Spider-Man film with Kingpin joining the rogues gallery. I base this on nothing but that he was too good. No! It was Punisher this whole time!!! He was Agnes husband who we have never seen until the las episode.
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Feb 16, 2021 17:34
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live with fruit posted:She could, for example, team up with Doctor Strange to fix the problems she created. I think the problems she created will probably be resolved by the end of the show. If I had to guess, I think Dr. Strange is going to teach her how to control her powers so she doesn't unconsciously do something like this again or destroy the universe or create a bunch of mutants.
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Feb 16, 2021 17:47
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Phylodox posted:I think the problems she created will probably be resolved by the end of the show. If I had to guess, I think Dr. Strange is going to teach her how to control her powers so she doesn't unconsciously do something like this again or destroy the universe or create a bunch of mutants. The movie's called In the Multiverse of Madness. It seems more likely to me that Wanda is the source of that madness.
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Feb 16, 2021 17:52
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The Multiverse of Madness is just a used car sale as it turns out
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Feb 16, 2021 17:54
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live with fruit posted:The movie's called In the Multiverse of Madness. It seems more likely to me that Wanda is the source of that madness. Maybe? But I doubt they'll have the central plot point of one of their major movies stem from a TV show. I'm not saying it can't happen, but I'm doubtful. I think it's more likely that the multiverse stuff will be unrelated to Wanda and she'll be introduced as Strange's ward/student/etc.
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Feb 16, 2021 17:55
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live with fruit posted:The movie's called In the Multiverse of Madness. It seems more likely to me that Wanda is the source of that madness. Strange's long time villain is Nightmare. I wager Nightmare is manipulating Wanda for some reason, Strange learns, comes to help, lead into his movie.
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Feb 16, 2021 18:12
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Phylodox posted:Maybe? But I doubt they'll have the central plot point of one of their major movies stem from a TV show. I'm not saying it can't happen, but I'm doubtful. I think it's more likely that the multiverse stuff will be unrelated to Wanda and she'll be introduced as Strange's ward/student/etc. We already know, or at least can reasonable infer, that she's done some multiverse shenanigans because of X-Men Pietro. We also know that the idea of the multiverse is known, at least in some circles, by the time Mysterio starts attacking Europe. And I don't think we can look at this as just "a TV show." Everything is interconnected in the MCU, to the point that the plot of this show hinges on a consensus bottom five MCU movie, and the shows will probably be no less important than the movies.
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Feb 16, 2021 18:15
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live with fruit posted:We already know, or at least can reasonable infer, that she's done some multiverse shenanigans because of X-Men Pietro. We also know that the idea of the multiverse is known, at least in some circles, by the time Mysterio starts attacking Europe. I don’t think we know either of those things. It’s entirely possible Evan Peters is just a bit of cheeky stunt casting and Mysterio was lying through his teeth.
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Feb 16, 2021 18:18
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Phylodox posted:I don’t think we know either of those things. It’s entirely possible Evan Peters is just a bit of cheeky stunt casting and Mysterio was lying through his teeth. The latter should probably be a given, since Mysterio's whole thing and all. The former would be super disappointing though. Marvel's got no reason to hold back now and needs to get the hype train rolling again, this is the time to be swinging Disney's dick around.
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Feb 16, 2021 18:24
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tsob posted:Has there? I can't think of anything uniquely different about her at this point, since Herb, the mailman etc. all seem capable of breaking the constraints of a script and realizing there's more going on and even the people frozen in time appeared to be conscious of it given that one of them was crying. There are other people that SWORD hasn't identified as well as Agnes (such as Dottie and again, the mailman if I recall) either. The only thing unique about her is the amount of focus she gets, and that really doesn't mean anything on it's own beyond that she's a convenient recurring character (both in the show WandaVision and in Wanda's own show) to foist small stuff on to so the episodes keep moving. To me, there's been too many instances of her knowing what's going on, not freaked out about it, and a ton of subtle links to her character and the character of Agatha Harkness in the comics for it all to be nothing. If I were to take a stab at what's going on (spoilered incase): Agnes is Agatha Harkness and manipulated Wanda into creating this false reality, she probably told her what SWORD was doing and that she could bring Vision back. I think she's present in the false reality so that she can poke and prod Wanda to keep it going and expand it. I think the longer the hex reality goes on and the bigger it gets, it messes with some sort of dimensional barriers that could allow someone like Nightmare or Mephisto to break free. People like Dottie and maybe Herb are people working with Agatha. The show ends with Wanda having maintained/grown the hex reality enough for Agatha's plans to free said otherworldly demon have either succeeded or can no longer be stopped. Dr. Strange 2 will be dealing with the aftermath of what the hex reality has done to the multiversal barriers so Wanda will naturally want/need to help. Do Vision and the kids live? If I had to guess Vision won't, but the kids will...but I'm not super confident on that call.
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Feb 16, 2021 18:29
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Ghost Leviathan posted:The latter should probably be a given, since Mysterio's whole thing and all. The former would be super disappointing though. Marvel's got no reason to hold back now and needs to get the hype train rolling again, this is the time to be swinging Disney's dick around. This wouldn't be a case of Mysterio lying though. This would be him accurately guessing a paradigm shifting discovery.
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Feb 16, 2021 18:30
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Ouhei posted:To me, there's been too many instances of her knowing what's going on, not freaked out about it, and a ton of subtle links to her character and the character of Agatha Harkness in the comics for it all to be nothing. One thing that's sort of slipped by is that Hayward pointed out that Wanda doesn't have a codename and then in the next episode Agnes is dressed up like a witch. The clues all seem to be there that she is who everyone thinks she is.
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Feb 16, 2021 18:32
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Desperado Bones posted:No! It was Punisher this whole time!!! He was Agnes husband who we have never seen until the las episode. I know you're joking, but it would add an interesting twist to Agnes asking Vision if she's dead because he is. Regarding the pacing: it's worth mentioning that due to the extreme length of the credits, if the last three episodes are of roughly similar length to the six we've had then the entire runtime of WandaVision will barely be longer than Avengers: Endgame.
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Feb 16, 2021 19:08
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Ouhei posted:To me, there's been too many instances of her knowing what's going on, not freaked out about it, and a ton of subtle links to her character and the character of Agatha Harkness in the comics for it all to be nothing. Everyone seems to know what's going, and just not able to actually do anything about it. Herb knew what was going on, the mailman knew what was going on etc. Agnes wasn't freaked out to the same degree about it, but she had a pretty major freakout about things just this last episode when Vision told her he intended to leave Westview to get help. She had enough of a freakout that Vision felt he had to put her back under just to stop her screaming "dead, Dead, DEAD, DEAD!" Beyond that, what other chances has she had to not freak out? She's been under Wanda's spell at all other times so far as we're shown, even if she has some degree of awareness. You could say the same of Herb though. Ouhei posted:If I were to take a stab at what's going on (spoilered incase): Agnes is Agatha Harkness and manipulated Wanda into creating this false reality, she probably told her what SWORD was doing and that she could bring Vision back. I think she's present in the false reality so that she can poke and prod Wanda to keep it going and expand it. I think the longer the hex reality goes on and the bigger it gets, it messes with some sort of dimensional barriers that could allow someone like Nightmare or Mephisto to break free. People like Dottie and maybe Herb are people working with Agatha. The show ends with Wanda having maintained/grown the hex reality enough for Agatha's plans to free said otherworldly demon have either succeeded or can no longer be stopped. Dr. Strange 2 will be dealing with the aftermath of what the hex reality has done to the multiversal barriers so Wanda will naturally want/need to help. If Agnes is Agatha, and really, she probably is, then she's almost certainly a benevolent character and not one trying to summon a demon or something, because she's good in the comics and the MCU rarely changes the moral alignment of the characters they carry over. If they were going to have a pre-existing character with bad intentions there's no end of them to carry over. And if Agnes is Agatha, and Agatha has good intentions, then she's probably not any kind of mastermind behind everything. Someone trying to influence for the better, maybe, but probably not someone secretly trying to summon the devil. I'm not entirely sure why you felt the need to spoiler speculation, but I'll do so as well, since you did.
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Feb 16, 2021 19:10
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Mooseontheloose posted:Also sitcoms play based on the reality that you know, idealized (for the most part) but somewhat familiar. So its reality but just slightly off from real reality. That's maybe the most brilliant part of the Wandavision story arc. Wanda's trying to keep her idealized life going, but whenever it starts to fall apart, she gives up on her crafted TV world and makes another. Somehow she's totally failed to recognize that each era gets progressively closer to reality, which is the thing she most wants to avoid. It's both a metaphor for how her crafted life will only continue to get harder on her over time, and a literal cause for the same. Each era is going to take more and more of her power and concentration to keep under control, meaning her plan has been in a death-spiral from the very first time she rebooted her world.
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Feb 16, 2021 19:11
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tsob posted:Everyone seems to know what's going, and just not able to actually do anything about it. Herb knew what was going on, the mailman knew what was going on etc. Agnes wasn't freaked out to the same degree about it, but she had a pretty major freakout about things just this last episode when Vision told her he intended to leave Westview to get help. She had enough of a freakout that Vision felt he had to put her back under just to stop her screaming "dead, Dead, DEAD, DEAD!" Beyond that, what other chances has she had to not freak out? She's been under Wanda's spell at all other times so far as we're shown, even if she has some degree of awareness. You could say the same of Herb though. People get weird about spoilers, so I didn't want to anger anyone, but if it's kosher here I'll just not. I wasn't super familiar with Agatha Harkness from the comics, and the little I had read around since the show popped up was that she was a witch and had some association with Mephisto. But based on what you said I looked her up more closely and you're right. I don't think it would make sense for her to be "bad" if she wasn't already bad in the comics. That begs the question then of what is she doing there? Someone of Agatha's caliber wouldn't just be randomly hanging out in NJ and happen to get trapped by Wanda. She also said that she wasn't in town when Wanda and Vision first arrived and her car has CT plates. Annoyingly, her actions make a lot more sense to me if she is pulling Wanda's strings than if she isn't...at least to me. Now my theory doesn't make any sense so who the gently caress knows.
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Feb 16, 2021 19:29
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XboxPants posted:Why would Jimmy have mentioned the name of the person in the Witness Protection Program he was looking into? How would that possibly have organically come up when he's talking to people that aren't even in the same agency? "So I came to Westview to check on someone who's identity I'm trying to keep a secret, btw his full real name is John Snitcherson just in case you were wondering, anyway..." I just assumed it did come up at some point when they were identifying people. People in WitSec get government issued ID's, so it's not like they're even fake. They were going through the people, Jimmy said "I know that guy, he's who I came here looking for." And then everyone moved on, if it's in a file it's probably classified so no way the name is going to come out anyways.
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Feb 16, 2021 19:29
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Jedit posted:I know you're joking, but it would add an interesting twist to Agnes asking Vision if she's dead because he is. To be honest, I think we might get a reveal of who is her husband and who is the person in witness protection. And definitely the person in witness protection is going to be the big reveal. If Agnes isn't the bad guy, and if they want to make things slightly interesting, her husband might be someone who passed away long ago. By the way, when the people being controlled talk about how it hurts, I got the idea that hey are meaning Wanda's grief. She's in their minds after all, so they probably are unwillingly sharing that feeling.
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Feb 16, 2021 19:30
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It feels really obvious who Agnes is, but who is Herb? He seems to be manipulating/helping Wanda as much as Agnes and is quite aware, but I have no idea who he might be. Also haven't seen Emma Caulfield's character since episode 3? I have to imagine they are all involved with the start of all this.
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Feb 16, 2021 19:33
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Azhais posted:The Multiverse of Madness is just a used car sale as it turns out Why are they all yellow classic cars?
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Feb 16, 2021 19:34
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Mooseontheloose posted:Why are they all yellow classic cars? They are all Bumblebee. Transformers are in the MCU now.
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Feb 16, 2021 19:36
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Firebert posted:It feels really obvious who Agnes is, but who is Herb? He seems to be manipulating/helping Wanda as much as Agnes and is quite aware, but I have no idea who he might be. Also haven't seen Emma Caulfield's character since episode 3? I have to imagine they are all involved with the start of all this. Herbert is the name of the High Evolutionary in the comics, and the one responsible for the twins getting their powers in the current origin. I’m assuming he’s just a guy and the name is just a reference.
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Feb 16, 2021 19:41
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live with fruit posted:And I don't think we can look at this as just "a TV show." Everything is interconnected in the MCU, to the point that the plot of this show hinges on a consensus bottom five MCU movie, and the shows will probably be no less important than the movies. This is definitely not "just a tv show", it's basically acting as the defacto springboard from which the entire Phase 4 is launching from.
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Feb 16, 2021 19:44
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seaborgium posted:I just assumed it did come up at some point when they were identifying people. People in WitSec get government issued ID's, so it's not like they're even fake. They were going through the people, Jimmy said "I know that guy, he's who I came here looking for." And then everyone moved on, if it's in a file it's probably classified so no way the name is going to come out anyways. Odds are good that they've only identified, or even seen a tiny small percentage of the town's population, because most of them haven't been on Wanda's show.
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Feb 16, 2021 19:45
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It'd be hilarious if, given Monica's Louisiana background, if the 'aerospace engineer' is a euphemism and she's actually going to ask Cloak & Dagger to teleport her in. Not going to happen, but still.
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Feb 16, 2021 19:45
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Edmund Lava posted:Herbert is the name of the High Evolutionary in the comics, and the one responsible for the twins getting their powers in the current origin. I doubt they're going to go with that, but if they do, the Frankenstein monster is a pretty clever Halloween costume.
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Feb 16, 2021 19:54
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