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CPColin posted:I tried to watch the Voyager pilot last night, because Greatest Gen has moved on to Voyager. I got thirty minutes in and it felt like 75 minutes had gone by. Also, they'd used "some kind/sort of" at least five times already. I couldn't do it and turned it off. I couldn't make it more than 15 minutes. The worst part is knowing that the Pilot is actually really good compared to ... the rest. When the pilot first aired, audiences didn't know the writers would drop the ball on like every aspect of the premise of the show.
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Feb 16, 2021 18:57
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Y’all some crybabies. Watch it through sheer force of will, not because it’s good. Don’t let yourself get dommed by Ethan Phillips
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Feb 16, 2021 19:02
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The pilot honestly isn’t that bad The issue is that the show farts around for the first season and a half before it even has an arc. Then that arc is the Seska/Kazon stuff which is not very interesting
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Feb 16, 2021 19:05
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Yeah, Caretaker isn't the worst modern-era Trek pilot (it used to be Broken Bow, and then The Vulcan Hello came along and said "Hold my beer"), but it does pretty much scream at you right from the get-go that Voyager is going to be a show full of pissed-away potential and wasted opportunity.
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Feb 16, 2021 19:13
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I will continue to watch for the primary reason that I have a crush on Janeway
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Feb 16, 2021 19:29
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Imo, Voyager’s biggest issue isn’t the bad writing or even the wasted potential. It’s the black hole of charisma when it comes to the cast. Everyone in the early seasons other than Kate Mulgrew, Ethan Phillips, and Robert Picardo act like they’re constantly battling the onset of a massive Ambien dose. And while Phillips is acting with energy, his character is an obnoxious Space Alabama mullet man that no one can stand. Trek shows can thrive while still having garbage scripts, but you really need a good cast to pull it off. Voyager ain’t it.
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Feb 16, 2021 19:35
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Timby posted:Yeah, Caretaker isn't the worst modern-era Trek pilot (it used to be Broken Bow, and then The Vulcan Hello came along and said "Hold my beer"), but it does pretty much scream at you right from the get-go that Voyager is going to be a show full of pissed-away potential and wasted opportunity. Honestly, Encounter at Farpoint and The Vulcan Hello can duke it out for worst pilot, imo. I thought Broken Bow was quite good, and put it just behind Emissary.
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Feb 16, 2021 19:35
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The Vulcan Hello is a sex act, right?
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Feb 16, 2021 19:44
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I'm coming around to the idea that Voyager really doesn't have one singular fatal flaw, but more of a death by a thousand cuts sort of thing. Everything bad about it also exists to some extent in other, better Star Trek shows. If they had found one particular thing to excel at, it could've still been good, but it felt like they just gave up.
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Feb 16, 2021 19:45
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Sash! posted:The Vulcan Hello is a sex act, right? I guess it could be
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Feb 16, 2021 19:46
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Sir Lemming posted:I'm coming around to the idea that Voyager really doesn't have one singular fatal flaw, but more of a death by a thousand cuts sort of thing. Everything bad about it also exists to some extent in other, better Star Trek shows. If they had found one particular thing to excel at, it could've still been good, but it felt like they just gave up. Honestly Voyager excelled when it was doing something a) loving weird or b) funny. It’s just a shame those times were spread between swaths of meh.
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Feb 16, 2021 19:55
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I’ve been using Voyager as my “about to go to bed soon, put something brainless on” show and it’s honestly difficult to tell the episodes apart. They all blend together in this homogenous blue and beige mush and I can never tell if I’ve seen one before.
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Feb 16, 2021 19:59
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Voyager had the best doctor though, ironically now competing with Discovery. But i think the worst waste is not doing crew centered continual plot, a bit like Battlestar Galactica but less grimdark. That and the Kazon being the lamest recurring enemy since TNG Ferengi. I remember it picking up a bit when they meet the Borg and acquire Seven of Nine.
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Feb 16, 2021 20:09
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Ernest Borgnine
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Feb 16, 2021 20:16
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HD DAD posted:I thought Broken Bow was quite good, and put it just behind Emissary. Yeah, but you're the thread's resident Enterprise apologist.  Sir Lemming posted:I'm coming around to the idea that Voyager really doesn't have one singular fatal flaw, but more of a death by a thousand cuts sort of thing. Everything bad about it also exists to some extent in other, better Star Trek shows. If they had found one particular thing to excel at, it could've still been good, but it felt like they just gave up. I kind of feel like Enterprise is the bigger victim of the death of a thousand cuts, given that it was just doomed from the get-go. But Voyager was also similarly doomed, given that Berman and Piller and Taylor were very open about "TNG, but in the Delta Quadrant" being their template, and that was just never going to work, which is why they were treading water already by the second season and finally Paramount said "Get some motherfucking Borgs in there."
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Feb 16, 2021 20:27
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Timby posted:Yeah, but you're the thread's resident Enterprise apologist. I can’t deny what I am 
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Feb 16, 2021 20:31
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Sash! posted:The Vulcan Hello is a sex act, right? It's when you do the Vulcan salute with both hands and put them together and then your friend does that same and then you interlock your two pairs of hands and one of you opens your hands and peers inside
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Feb 16, 2021 20:41
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Timby posted:I kind of feel like Enterprise is the bigger victim of the death of a thousand cuts, given that it was just doomed from the get-go. Sort of, but I still consider "make it a prequel but then immediately do time travel" to be a pretty critical wound.
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Feb 16, 2021 20:42
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Given Trek’s in-universe history I really don’t buy that a prequel showing the birth of Starfleet and the Federation is an inherently doomed premise. Quote the opposite, I think there’s a lot of meat on those bones if done correctly. Unfortunately Berman and Braga just didn’t give a poo poo and decided to do Voyager 2.0 instead. I maintain that some of Enterprise’s best early episodes revolve around fish out of water “we have no idea what we’re doing out here” plots. Shuttlepods stuck on planets without transporters to rescue them, communication issues between new aliens, etc., but that’s maybe 10ish episodes across the first two seasons.
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Feb 16, 2021 20:47
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Given Trek’s in-universe history I really don’t buy that a prequel showing the birth of Starfleet and the Federation is an inherently doomed premise. Quote the opposite, I think there’s a lot of meat on those bones if done correctly. I generally agree with you; my point about Enterprise being inherently doomed is that it was being shepherded by a producer who was terrible on the creative side and a producer who was completely burnt-out and exhausted and had nothing left in the tank. That alone was enough to set the show on a one-way course to oblivion.
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Feb 16, 2021 20:53
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Enterprise really needed that year or two of downtime after Voyager which I'm pretty sure they asked for but were denied. Even with that, the presence of UPN + Rick Berman probably would've dragged it down anyway, but at least they could've started in a stronger position. I still like Enterprise a lot more than Voyager regardless of all its problems and I'd probably rather have a new show set in the 22nd century than the 23rd or 24th.
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Feb 16, 2021 20:59
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I feel like the enterprise biggest issue is during this future war plot, that was so in the open as to be hilarious. Like it made everyone from the future good guys utterly incompetent when they changed everything so constantly, and obviously, where they were "watching the timeline." Ditching that was the best thing that show should have done, but then it had only a season left to be a normal star trek show and by then, I don't think anyone cared.
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Feb 16, 2021 21:11
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You guys need more faith of the heart.
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Feb 16, 2021 21:16
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Honestly the very title of "Enterprise" embodies everything wrong with the show. "Star Trek: Federation" -- that's a prequel with potential. (OK, you might have to workshop the title to something a bit more exciting, but you get the idea.) But "Enterprise" means: it's a prequel, but not really. For some reason, this show is still going to have a crew aboard "the Enterprise" even though it's before TOS. Don't worry, we'll retcon it in somehow. Please watch more Star Trek. "Oh, so this is going to be a new type of Star Trek show, something we've never seen before? A more literal extension of what DS9 started, examining how we get from where we are today to Roddenberry's utopian vision?" "Nah just another ship flying around basically" Sir Lemming fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Feb 16, 2021 |
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Feb 16, 2021 21:21
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Sir Lemming posted:Honestly the very title of "Enterprise" embodies everything wrong with the show. "Star Trek: Federation" -- that's a prequel with potential. (OK, you might have to workshop the title to something a bit more exciting, but you get the idea.) But "Enterprise" means: it's a prequel, but not really. For some reason, this show is still going to have a crew aboard "the Enterprise" even though it's before TOS. Don't worry, we'll retcon it in somehow. Please watch more Star Trek. I mean if they hadn't gotten so hung up on the temporal cold war it would've been a good arc to see Archer go from a product of nepotism and prejudiced hothead to a more competent captain who eventually helps bring the alpha quadrant together into the Federation to face off against the Romulans trying to sow discord. Unfortunately we only got like 1/3 of that by the time the series ended.
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Feb 16, 2021 21:29
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Well, the biggest thing is that Archer is supposed to be some rough and tumble captain, when the Scott Bakula is just so god drat likable. If you compare him to say Picard who barely could call Riker "will" at times, he never really warmed up cause the dude was already intimate friends with everyone or at least felt like it. Edit: Haha, i just found this and it is delightful: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5509372/goofs/?tab=gf&ref_=tt_trv_gf Axe-man fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Feb 16, 2021 |
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Feb 16, 2021 21:41
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Axe-man posted:Well, the biggest thing is that Archer is supposed to be some rough and tumble captain, when the Scott Bakula is just so god drat likable. If you compare him to say Picard who barely could call Riker "will" at times, he never really warmed up cause the dude was already intimate friends with everyone or at least felt like it. Yeah, Bakula is woefully miscast as Archer; while he's a charismatic actor, he just doesn't have the chops to pull off Archer as written, especially all of the bigotry that's just bubbling right underneath the surface. And it's a shame, because most of Enterprise's cast is really genuinely talented, but they wound up being forced to portray bland ciphers and it just became dull as dishwater.
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Feb 16, 2021 21:48
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Voyager is just so... sterile. Clean. For a ship stranded far from home and under constant attack, the crew sure do make certain to vacuum the floors and sanitize the countertops every five minutes. And the lights are always on. And everyone's clothes are immaculate. And what value did that aesthetic add to the premise of the show?
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Feb 16, 2021 22:27
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Imo, Voyager’s biggest issue isn’t the bad writing or even the wasted potential. It’s the black hole of charisma when it comes to the cast. Everyone in the early seasons other than Kate Mulgrew, Ethan Phillips, and Robert Picardo act like they’re constantly battling the onset of a massive Ambien dose. And while Phillips is acting with energy, his character is an obnoxious Space Alabama mullet man that no one can stand. The bland sets and lighting doesn't help either. But yes, the charisma gap is amazing. Somehow Brent Spiner, playing an android constantly searching for any emotion, is somehow more charismatic than 90% of the entire cast of Voyager.
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Feb 16, 2021 22:37
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They never would've gone full Year of Hell, but yeah, the ship should have evolved. Doesn't even necessarily have to be broken down, but they should have modified it to make it home. Like Neelix destroying the captain's mess for the kitchen, that was good and should have happened way more all over the ship. Also since the ship was a CG model they could have done like the Galactica and had battle damage persist over time. Maybe not to the same extent given what they can do with replicators, but it would have at least been cool if Voyager was in a big battle and you saw the damage from it slowly get repaired and cleaned up over the next several episodes.
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Feb 16, 2021 22:37
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That's what I liked about Farscape. Moya changed and gained new abilities over time.
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Feb 16, 2021 22:41
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Why do they dim the bridge lights for the night shift on TNG? What's the point?
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Feb 16, 2021 22:50
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John F Bennett posted:Why do they dim the bridge lights for the night shift on TNG? What's the point? Don't you have flux or redshift on your computer
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Feb 16, 2021 22:52
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I don''t, but why dim the lights if the job will stay the same? There's not a lesser chance of stuff so why do their eyes need to be more relaxed? Also, they're in space.
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Feb 16, 2021 22:54
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John F Bennett posted:I don''t, but why dim the lights if the job will stay the same? There's not a lesser chance of stuff so why do their eyes need to be more relaxed? Is this a bit
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Feb 16, 2021 22:55
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It's a bit silly, no? I guess it's about their cyrcadian rhythm or something but it's probably more for showing some kind of visual effect to the viewer.
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Feb 16, 2021 22:58
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John F Bennett posted:I don''t, but why dim the lights if the job will stay the same? There's not a lesser chance of stuff so why do their eyes need to be more relaxed? It's so that people on night shift will still have a hosed up life because they work when the normal people sleep. Can't be letting them have any sense of normalcy.
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Feb 16, 2021 23:03
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Night Crew likes to chill, and since RGB string lights are against regulation, they settle for dimming the main lights.
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Feb 16, 2021 23:04
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Night crew is sexier, that's why.
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Feb 16, 2021 23:09
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I wish they had a few more episodes of just B cast and let them grow and shine a bit, Lower Decks and Night Shift really were good episodes and allowed the setting to become more a "universe" than the main cast microcaism.
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Feb 16, 2021 23:44
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