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If deadguy ale wasn't literal thousands I'd be playing it
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Feb 15, 2021 21:32
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Spirits has been a top 5 meta deck in modern for the past few weeks. What a time to be alive.
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Feb 15, 2021 21:50
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Can't wait for whatever flavor of xerox is best now.
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Feb 16, 2021 13:30
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Happy to see we're in the brief minute of Legacy where people think anything is possible, I lost to a Dragonstorm today  ilmucche posted:If deadguy ale wasn't literal thousands I'd be playing it what's pricey besides scrublands and a chains? I have 1 scrub and a chains, I could see trying a 3-shock version of this. I'm p sure I am done buying more ABUR duals HootTheOwl posted:Can't wait for whatever flavor of xerox is best now. A delver deck will almost certainly always be tier 1 and a UWx control deck will likewise almost certainly always be tier 1, why is that a problem? I don't have an issue with xerox strategies being strong, my mind breaks when it gets to "well, I guess I just jam Okos into [someDeck] until they loving ban Oko because otherwise I'm shooting myself in the dick" Legacy players are never happy. If you want to go play a perfectly fine and fun midrange format where xerox is a tier 2, Historic awaits!! (This isn't a dig, I love historic). Cabbages and VHS fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Feb 16, 2021 |
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Feb 16, 2021 19:43
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I remember the UB ninjas archetype being split between "just play the loving deck" and "splash G for Oko" so I'm pleased to see him finally get dunked
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Feb 16, 2021 20:00
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LordSaturn posted:I remember the UB ninjas archetype being split between "just play the loving deck" and "splash G for Oko" so I'm pleased to see him finally get dunked Now onto the real debate: do I splash t3feri in legacy infect?(also geist and Rest In Peace for the board)
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Feb 16, 2021 22:39
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Cabbages and Kings posted:A delver deck will almost certainly always be tier 1 and a UWx control deck will likewise almost certainly always be tier 1, why is that a problem? I don't have an issue with xerox strategies being strong, my mind breaks when it gets to "well, I guess I just jam Okos into [someDeck] until they loving ban Oko because otherwise I'm shooting myself in the dick" Why is just jamming Oko into [someDeck] bad but jamming Brainstorm/Ponder/Preordain into the same deck good?
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Feb 17, 2021 13:33
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Mezzanon posted:Now onto the real debate: do I splash t3feri in legacy infect?(also geist and Rest In Peace for the board) Infect boarding in anything but different leylines is off the theme of maximum bullshit.
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Feb 17, 2021 13:34
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HootTheOwl posted:Why is just jamming Oko into [someDeck] bad but jamming Brainstorm/Ponder/Preordain into the same deck good? people like the "fiddling with card selection" aspect of legacy I guess because it makes them feel smart. i'm not much for that, and although I sometimes play RUG or UR delver, I prefer to play stuff with ancient tomb and chalice.
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Feb 17, 2021 13:43
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hey mom its 420 posted:people like the "fiddling with card selection" aspect of legacy I guess because it makes them feel smart. i'm not much for that, and although I sometimes play RUG or UR delver, I prefer to play stuff with ancient tomb and chalice. I know people like to be flippant about jamming cantrips in complicated formats, but using Ponder or Brainstorm properly is waaaayyy harder to do than using Oko properly.
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Feb 17, 2021 14:06
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Also, cantrips don't actually do anything on their own. They just let you use the other cards you've put in your deck more effectively. How your deck actually plays is going to be defined by the other cards you put in your deck. If someone has Oko in their deck, then a good portion of their games are going to be "Oko games", which are all pretty much the same.
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Feb 17, 2021 14:08
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Oko’s power level is absurd on its face, you cannot realistically compare its impact to a bunch of cantrips. There shouldn’t be 3 drop that functions as the games most versatile removal spell as well as one of its greatest threat generators.
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Feb 17, 2021 14:12
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I suggest watching some commentated pro videos of legacy gameplay (maybe from before Oko was printed). Cantrips introduce a lot of interesting decisions relating to land sequencing and timing, and can lead to very tight games where every point of mana is being used because hands can be sculpted so efficiently.
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Feb 17, 2021 14:40
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I don’t think anyone is saying cantrips are bad, or not that powerful, or don’t decide even the majority of Legacy games, but none of that is out of line with the way Magic cards typically behave. Oko is a unique outlier because he simultaneously the best threat and the best removal in the format that also protects itself. There really isn’t another card in Legacy on Oko’s power level, not even close, in terms of one card’s impact on both individual games and the format as a whole.
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Feb 17, 2021 14:43
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HootTheOwl posted:Why is just jamming Oko into [someDeck] bad but jamming Brainstorm/Ponder/Preordain into the same deck good? Because as good as Brainstorm is it doesn’t invalidate every single creature and artifact that costs more than 2 without providing immediate value all the time forever
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Feb 17, 2021 15:34
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HootTheOwl posted:Why is just jamming Oko into [someDeck] bad but jamming Brainstorm/Ponder/Preordain into the same deck good? tbh I don't like this either but the complex you're referring to is Brainstorm/Force of Will/Fetches, Ponder and Preordain are kind of auxilliary to that
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Feb 17, 2021 16:52
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TheKingofSprings posted:Because as good as Brainstorm is it doesn’t invalidate every single creature and artifact that costs more than 2 without providing immediate value all the time forever How is this the fault of oko though? Cards like delver, snapcaster, strix, and the now banned drs have completely changed the floor for what similar cards of their cmc should be. Even something like dark confidant is no longer a playable card. It seems to me what the 2020 cards really showed is how much of a gap exists between nonblue and blue and how easy it is for blue decks to completely take over. Bust Rodd posted:I don’t think anyone is saying cantrips are bad, or not that powerful, or don’t decide even the majority of Legacy games, but none of that is out of line with the way Magic cards typically behave. Oko is a unique outlier because he simultaneously the best threat and the best removal in the format that also protects itself. There really isn’t another card in Legacy on Oko’s power level, not even close, in terms of one card’s impact on both individual games and the format as a whole. Lmao, legacy has had a planeswalker to do this since worldwake.
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Feb 17, 2021 17:06
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I don’t think jace is remotely comparable to oko
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Feb 17, 2021 17:11
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Yeah, Oko is completely on a different level, I’ve played in both of those Standard and Legacy environments with Jace & Oko, it’s close. Oko could solo every card in Cawblade
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Feb 17, 2021 17:20
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Hell, Jace giving immediate value involves risking dying to Bolt. Oko always gives you something and you'd need Bolt Snap Bolt to actually take him out in the same way despite costing a mana less. That's absolutely absurd.
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Feb 17, 2021 17:24
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I'm pretty sure people splashed green/blue to play Oko in unrelated decks - at least Elves and Ninjas, right? Decks that typically wouldn't be interested in efficient removal as opposed to "a 1-shot answer to whatever permanent is holding me back so I can finish the game with my actual deck" it's hard to point to people splashing colors for a single card in Legacy (precisely due to the mana restrictions referenced in the ban announcement) - there's a preference towards blue decks, for more or less obvious reasons, but does anybody splash blue in D&T, for instance? This question is in earnest, it seems like Oko was measurably warping deck construction for the format in a unique way.
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Feb 17, 2021 17:42
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I’m gonna remember watching that 3/3 Black Lotus beating someone to death for the rest of my life, Oko is a hosed up magic cards
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Feb 17, 2021 17:45
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Also the posters drawing equivalencies might just be right that Delver is a ridiculous card that has no business being in Legacy and should be looked at next
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Feb 17, 2021 17:46
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There were a lot of board states where if you didn't have a blast or a full board of creatures to kill JTMS he just wasn't dying and you felt like you had lost the game from there. I'm not defending oko, I think that all planeswalkers are bad and are a mistake.
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Feb 17, 2021 17:51
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TheKingofSprings posted:Also the posters drawing equivalencies might just be right that Delver is a ridiculous card that has no business being in Legacy and should be looked at next Tbh I’d be fine with this but combo would likely run rampant without some bannings to go with it I am also a combo player Pls ban delver
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Feb 17, 2021 17:58
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They just got rid of 6-8 delver threats in one swoop, let’s give the format some time before calling for delver to get banned
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Feb 17, 2021 18:20
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I legitimately have no idea what Legacy would look like if they banned Delver
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Feb 17, 2021 18:23
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Oh nooo a 3/2 flyer!! whatever shall I do
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Feb 17, 2021 19:12
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Time posted:They just got rid of 6-8 delver threats in one swoop, let’s give the format some time before calling for delver to get banned Lmao yes I think delver is actually good for the format Suppose the sarcasm wasn’t as clear as I hoped 
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Feb 17, 2021 23:32
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Walked posted:Lmao yes I think delver is actually good for the format It was more directed at the other person who I think was serious
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Feb 17, 2021 23:36
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Delver is too strong for Pauper and that's technically an Eternal format 
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Feb 18, 2021 06:11
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Got a match against oops all spells that boards into dark depths tonight. Not at all looking forward to it lol
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Feb 18, 2021 15:44
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ilmucche posted:Got a match against oops all spells that boards into dark depths tonight. Not at all looking forward to it lol What the heck is this 5-0 list?
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Feb 22, 2021 05:53
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Mezzanon posted:What the heck is this 5-0 list? U/W spirits trying to be Esper for the lulz? Like, the only things black gives you is hand disruption (and access to Kaya's Guile?? Maybe Plague-guy for the mirror?). Seems super not worth it. But then random takes on mainstream beater decks getting 5-0 in a league aren't uncommon.
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Feb 22, 2021 15:56
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all a deck trophying tells you is that it won 5 matches in a row. doesn't mean it's optimized or the best version of its archetype.
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Feb 22, 2021 16:18
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The fact that it shows up on the list at all actually tells you that it's probably not the optimized version of its archetype, in fact it's at least 20 cards different.
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Feb 22, 2021 16:50
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Push is very good right now and is a much better play against T1 pressure than Path, Kaya's Guile looks a like more like a real 2-for-1 in a deck with 8 lords, and Plague Engineer is probably in the sideboard for Elves. I'm not saying it's the right way to build Spirits, but it spiking a league isn't insanity.
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Feb 23, 2021 01:01
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https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/3748940#paper This list looks insanely cool. I wonder if it'll have any staying power? Feels like just a solidly fun janky gimmick deck but those are honestly some of my favorite decks so probably works for me.
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Feb 25, 2021 17:07
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Elvis_Maximus posted:https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/3748940#paper I've watched the streams a good bit; the deck has real potential but I'm unsure if its good enough to hang with the highest tier Basically the perfect tier2 fnm deck as its floor; and could potentially have a higher ceiling
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Feb 25, 2021 22:34
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Hypothetically if they reprinted a new set of duals that are identical to the original cycle but just with a different name, how much would legacy mana bases change? Are land bases basically perfect right now?
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Feb 26, 2021 02:54
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