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D.N. Nation posted:Nation vs. LOD/Ahmed at Mania 13 was pretty great, but that was just a bunch of enormous dudes whaling on each other so it's not true match per se I haven't seen that match in 20 years, but I think that's when Faarooq still had Crush and Savio (for some reason), but also had a big entourage of random people like Clarence Mason, (the unnamed) D-Lo Brown, PG-13, and whatever local jobbers they could find. They also had a woman that never did anything outside of a few appearances - who was she?
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Feb 18, 2021 17:53
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Red posted:I haven't seen that match in 20 years, but I think that's when Faarooq still had Crush and Savio (for some reason), but also had a big entourage of random people like Clarence Mason, (the unnamed) D-Lo Brown, PG-13, and whatever local jobbers they could find. They also had a woman that never did anything outside of a few appearances - who was she? Did Wolfie and Jamie ever wrestle an actual match as PG-13 (or at least as a tag team) in WWE?
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Feb 18, 2021 18:22
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Dawgstar posted:Did Wolfie and Jamie ever wrestle an actual match as PG-13 (or at least as a tag team) in WWE? During that period, Cagematch says they had one match, on Raw, losing to LOD. If I guess/remember right, I think they were thrown in there by Faarooq to get pasted, and pasted they were. Edit: Otherwise, they had a few other matches as jobbers or whatnot in 95 or 2000; the latter on JAKKED.
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Feb 18, 2021 18:29
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Dawgstar posted:Did Wolfie and Jamie ever wrestle an actual match as PG-13 (or at least as a tag team) in WWE? They had a single match against LOD on Raw, and the way it was presented it was billed as "LOD vs the Nation" but when the Nation came out the LOD were like "We don't want Faarooq or Crush or Savio or D-Lo, we want those geeks!" and the rest of the Nation just kinda threw PG-13 to the wolves and let the NOD kill them. I'm also 99% sure this was PG-13's last appearance in WWF period. also in looking this up I learned that before they were PG-13, in 1993 they were called The Cyberpunks in USWA and wrestled as Cyberpunk Fire and Cyberpunk Ice
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Feb 18, 2021 18:31
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Alaois posted:They had a single match against LOD on Raw, and the way it was presented it was billed as "LOD vs the Nation" but when the Nation came out the LOD were like "We don't want Faarooq or Crush or Savio or D-Lo, we want those geeks!" and the rest of the Nation just kinda threw PG-13 to the wolves and let the NOD kill them. Also Wolfie D would go on to grow fangs and call himself Slash/Cerebus and be part of James Mitchell's Disciples of the New Church in TNA.
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Feb 18, 2021 18:40
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davidbix posted:So on that note: Can someone who knows FMW history better than me explain how exactly Mr. Pogo got so hosed up in that explosion match with Terry Funk? Was it something to do with with the explosions or did he just happen to hurt his neck taking a bump into the double hell pit? Just checking wikipedia it appears that his head got caught in a strand of wire which snapped his neck as his body fell. Not many things more terrifying than knowing you might have just broken your neck next to an explosion in a bed of barbed wire while Terry Funk stands on the apron and blows fire at you. I was a huge FMW and Hayabusa mark as a teenager and I almost always skipped Pogo's matches because the sickle was just too much. He used to jab it in the base of someone's spine, or sometimes their stomach, and spin it. It still works the absolute poo poo out of me to this day.
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Feb 18, 2021 18:56
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Critical posted:Just checking wikipedia it appears that his head got caught in a strand of wire which snapped his neck as his body fell. Not many things more terrifying than knowing you might have just broken your neck next to an explosion in a bed of barbed wire while Terry Funk stands on the apron and blows fire at you. Is there any information on the health of some of these guys later in life? Masato Tanaka looks terrible (he's 47), but still works, and Mr. Gannosuke (age 52) was working as recently as 2018, per Wikipedia.
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Feb 18, 2021 19:19
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Red posted:Is there any information on the health of some of these guys later in life? Masato Tanaka looks terrible (he's 47), but still works, and Mr. Gannosuke (age 52) was working as recently as 2018, per Wikipedia. Deceased: Hayabusa, Pogo (botched surgery), Mike Awesome and Arai (both suicides) Onita is obv still alive. Gannosuke is actually training with Emi Sakura which owns. W*ing Kanemura is doing ok. Megumi Kudo and Combat Toyoda are doing well. Other than bumping in their ring, which always looked like someone threw a blanket over a section of I-90 and had no give at all, FMW was probably safer than a 300 day a year WWE schedule. A lot of the death matches were multi-man and other than the infamously botched fire deathmatch were mostly harmless. A lot of it is quaint now, especially compared to poo poo like carpet tacks and scissor boards.
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Feb 18, 2021 19:39
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On that note, could Mike Awesome have ever been a big mainstream star in the US, in WWF or WCW? It seems like what got him over were these big deathmatches/hardcore matches in Japan and ECW, where they were done like once every few months at the most regular, and this is why guys like Masato Tanaka are still with us despite me having an urge to check "is this guy still alive?" every time I watch one of his matches. It just seems like Awesome's strengths could not be accommodated in the relentless WWF/WCW schedules; even in WCW, where they initially played to his strengths with the "career killer" gimmick, he didn't actually get to do much other than batter Kanyon a lot. To me, he didn't really seem to have the necessary promo skills or character work in reserve, which was a shame.
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Feb 18, 2021 19:52
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Red posted:Is there any information on the health of some of these guys later in life? Masato Tanaka looks terrible (he's 47), but still works, and Mr. Gannosuke (age 52) was working as recently as 2018, per Wikipedia. I dunno if Tanaka looks that terrible but dude certainly can still go. If you're not watching Zero1, his run in DDT last year had some stellar matches, including against Tetsuya Endo at Peter Pan.
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Feb 18, 2021 19:55
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I think the deathmatch poo poo that squicks me out the most is when they do needles. I saw a clip of some promotion - I want to say Big Japan? - where someone literally shoved a syringe straight through someone's entire cheek and you could see the needle inside his mouth. I just don't get why you'd ever need to do something like that in a wrestling promotion. I guess the effect is that I'm still talking about it, but I don't want to watch it. I kind of feel the same way about still seeing thumbtacks anytime past the 90s. Just... you don't need to do that kind of poo poo in major promotions. I'm cool with just watching wrestling, dudes. Red posted:Edit: Otherwise, they had a few other matches as jobbers or whatnot in 95 or 2000; the latter on JAKKED.
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Feb 18, 2021 20:02
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Hedgehog Pie posted:On that note, could Mike Awesome have ever been a big mainstream star in the US, in WWF or WCW? It seems like what got him over were these big deathmatches/hardcore matches in Japan and ECW, where they were done like once every few months at the most regular, and this is why guys like Masato Tanaka are still with us despite me having an urge to check "is this guy still alive?" every time I watch one of his matches. It just seems like Awesome's strengths could not be accommodated in the relentless WWF/WCW schedules; even in WCW, where they initially played to his strengths with the "career killer" gimmick, he didn't actually get to do much other than batter Kanyon a lot. To me, he didn't really seem to have the necessary promo skills or character work in reserve, which was a shame. Back then, no, now yes. Back then the only place where he could do everything that made him a star was ECW and he was never going to become a mainstream star there. WCW and WWF main eventers weren't going to take the kind of bumps for him that would let him show off what made him special. But if you somehow transported 1999 Mike Awesome into 2021 AEW the guy would get over. He'd seem a little less spectacular since lots of big guys do that stuff now but the shoot time travel aspect would really catch people's attention.
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Feb 18, 2021 20:09
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sticklefifer posted:What is routinely the worst looking spot that you see consistently? For me, it's probably the "low bridge" spot where someone pulls down the top rope so the guy barreling toward him flies to the outside. 99% of the time it just looks like the oncoming dude's entire purpose was to throw himself over the top. I can see it working for really big guys who get a huge head of steam first, but it happens all the time with people who are more than agile enough to stop. This is several days ago already but I just started watching Riho vs Deeb and remembered that I really hate the ”limbo out of a pin” spot. Like the bridge itself looks cool, sure, but it also requires the worst pin attempt of all time, every time, making the entire spot look like poo poo. Well, at least to me.
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Feb 18, 2021 20:16
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Hedgehog Pie posted:On that note, could Mike Awesome have ever been a big mainstream star in the US, in WWF or WCW? It seems like what got him over were these big deathmatches/hardcore matches in Japan and ECW, where they were done like once every few months at the most regular, and this is why guys like Masato Tanaka are still with us despite me having an urge to check "is this guy still alive?" every time I watch one of his matches. It just seems like Awesome's strengths could not be accommodated in the relentless WWF/WCW schedules; even in WCW, where they initially played to his strengths with the "career killer" gimmick, he didn't actually get to do much other than batter Kanyon a lot. To me, he didn't really seem to have the necessary promo skills or character work in reserve, which was a shame. Awesome's delivery was always a little flat and sometimes goofy, even when he did short yell-y promos in Japan. Heyman knew how to use him really well, and it was the right idea to take the payday from WCW, but the timing was pretty awful; he was never going to get a chance with all the backstage stuff happening in WCW. Nowadays, Awesome would do well anywhere; I imagine he'd be great in WWE with Heyman (though they'd gently caress it up somehow), and probably better off in Japan or AEW. He would work extremely well with some smaller guys who can sell. If Bryan can make Kane entertaining, imagine what he and Awesome could do.
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Feb 18, 2021 20:41
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sticklefifer posted:I think the deathmatch poo poo that squicks me out the most is when they do needles. I saw a clip of some promotion - I want to say Big Japan? - where someone literally shoved a syringe straight through someone's entire cheek and you could see the needle inside his mouth. I just don't get why you'd ever need to do something like that in a wrestling promotion. I guess the effect is that I'm still talking about it, but I don't want to watch it. Have you seen the scissor board match?
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Feb 18, 2021 20:51
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Was Luchasaurus ever called Luchasaurus before those chants started in Lucha Underground?
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Feb 18, 2021 21:29
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Ibexaz posted:Was Luchasaurus ever called Luchasaurus before those chants started in Lucha Underground? he didn't switch from Vibora to Luchasaurus until after most of his Lucha Underground run. He was trying Austin Draven and Just Judas on the indies, did a couple of matches as "Judas Luchasaurus", then started working as Luchasaurus from the start of 2017. He had one more Lucha Underground match in 2018 but he was an indie fixture by then.
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Feb 18, 2021 21:38
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Judas Luchasaurus sounds like something off Chuck Taylor's list
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Feb 18, 2021 21:51
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Luchasaurus is a far better name than anything else he ever went by. Related: I’m bummed his new mask is essentially the same (but easier to breathe in??). Really wished he’d at least have new colors or a big frill or something.
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Feb 18, 2021 22:01
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BodyMassageMachine posted:Related: I’m bummed his new mask is essentially the same (but easier to breathe in??). Really wished he’d at least have new colors or a big frill or something.
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Feb 18, 2021 22:15
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Critical posted:Deceased: Hayabusa, Pogo (botched surgery), Mike Awesome and Arai (both suicides) Pogo's botched surgery was for spinal stenosis and wasn't his first, so he was kinda screwed no matter what. Doesn't Matsunaga own a steakhouse now?
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Feb 18, 2021 22:19
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frankenfreak posted:Adjust to the science and add feathers. Add big fan things and a thing to squeeze to spit poison
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Feb 18, 2021 22:25
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Endless Mike posted:Add big fan things and a thing to squeeze to spit poison A big hoss who can move, has a cool mask, and spits mist? Sign me up
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Feb 18, 2021 22:30
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Red posted:A big hoss who can move, has a cool mask, and spits mist? Sign me up 
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Feb 18, 2021 22:32
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MassRafTer posted:Back then, no, now yes. Back then the only place where he could do everything that made him a star was ECW and he was never going to become a mainstream star there. WCW and WWF main eventers weren't going to take the kind of bumps for him that would let him show off what made him special. But if you somehow transported 1999 Mike Awesome into 2021 AEW the guy would get over. He'd seem a little less spectacular since lots of big guys do that stuff now but the shoot time travel aspect would really catch people's attention. What really confuses me is that WCW still made a big deal of signing him by offering him this big juicy contract when they really weren't in the position to do so. I'd ask "Why?" but I know that the answer is almost certainly "Because WCW". I have to imagine someone thought that he could be a big game-changing star but, er, presumably not someone all that great at talent scouting? Would a shoot time traveller stay off Twitter and never learn about 9/11? If so, sign me up!
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Feb 18, 2021 23:03
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Hedgehog Pie posted:What really confuses me is that WCW still made a big deal of signing him by offering him this big juicy contract when they really weren't in the position to do so. I'd ask "Why?" but I know that the answer is almost certainly "Because WCW". I have to imagine someone thought that he could be a big game-changing star but, er, presumably not someone all that great at talent scouting? I think, for WCW at the time, it was just a war of attrition. Bischoff was out of power at the time, but WCW probably felt like, to gain any footing against the WWF, they'd have to sign potential stars away from ECW/Indies/Japan/whatever before the WWF got them. I have to imagine a big motivator in signing Awesome was to keep him from going to Vince. The weird thing is, at the time, the WWF didn't really need a ton of help. 2000 was probably their best year, creatively/financially, and they had Austin, Angle, Rock, Big Show, Jericho, HHH, Undertaker, Kane, Benoit, and tons of others; Awesome wouldn't have even had a spot at that time - look how they had to squeeze guys like Raven into lower-tier angles, and ended up doing nothing with them anyway. It makes it even more confounding WCW had so many guys working without a contract, and Vince exploited this by grabbing Meng/Haku, who was Hardcore champ without a permanent deal. Edit: In fact, Taz(z) joined the WWF at the '00 Rumble (JAN) to a big reaction (though, well, you know). Awesome debuted in WCW in April, so I can totally see WCW freaking out and throwing money at ECW guys. Red fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Feb 18, 2021 |
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Feb 18, 2021 23:16
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Red posted:I think, for WCW at the time, it was just a war of attrition. Bischoff was out of power at the time, but WCW probably felt like, to gain any footing against the WWF, they'd have to sign potential stars away from ECW/Indies/Japan/whatever before the WWF got them. I have to imagine a big motivator in signing Awesome was to keep him from going to Vince. The weird thing is, at the time, the WWF didn't really need a ton of help. 2000 was probably their best year, creatively/financially, and they had Austin, Angle, Rock, Big Show, Jericho, HHH, Undertaker, Kane, Benoit, and tons of others; Awesome wouldn't have even had a spot at that time - look how they had to squeeze guys like Raven into lower-tier angles, and ended up doing nothing with them anyway. Bischoff was in power at the time.
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Feb 18, 2021 23:39
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Red posted:I think, for WCW at the time, it was just a war of attrition. Bischoff was out of power at the time, but WCW probably felt like, to gain any footing against the WWF, they'd have to sign potential stars away from ECW/Indies/Japan/whatever before the WWF got them.
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Feb 18, 2021 23:51
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MassRafTer posted:Bischoff was in power at the time. Was he? I went by Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Bischoff#Replacement
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Feb 18, 2021 23:52
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Red posted:Edit: In fact, Taz(z) joined the WWF at the '00 Rumble (JAN) to a big reaction (though, well, you know). Awesome debuted in WCW in April, so I can totally see WCW freaking out and throwing money at ECW guys. I can understand WWF being interested in Taz and RVD because at their peak they had tons of charisma that was more of the type that they could use. Less so Mike Awesome, though you're right, I can definitely see WCW getting swept up in an imaginary bidding war over him. I feel like WWF just had a much better talent operation at that point, like I can't picture them kicking up a storm over someone like Awesome when you had guys like JR carefully watching over things. I have to think that the reaction for Taz at the Rumble was more down to the show being in MSG with a smark-heavy crowd though. I mean, they're chanting for him before he even shows up, so they knew it was going to be him answering Angle's challenge. If that's what you meant?
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Feb 18, 2021 23:57
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I had been curious when exactly Big Show turned into an embarrassing dancing goober and my question was just answered. Literally the night after he main evented Mania 2000.
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Feb 19, 2021 00:26
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Red posted:Was he? I went by Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Bischoff#Replacement Yes, it was part of the Russo/Bischoff era.
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Feb 19, 2021 00:38
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TheKingslayer posted:I had been curious when exactly Big Show turned into an embarrassing dancing goober and my question was just answered. Literally the night after he main evented Mania 2000.
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Feb 19, 2021 01:29
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davidbix posted:Basically, he stole the show when The Rock hosted SNL two weeks earlier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR7i1YFH-QQ I remember being extremely excited for that as a kid and watching it live. And yeah Show was actually pretty hilarious.
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Feb 19, 2021 01:48
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Big Show is cool, and when you meet him in person you realize just how loving large he is. It makes sense that nobody has ever lifted him (he's too big).
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Feb 19, 2021 02:22
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Hedgehog Pie posted:I can understand WWF being interested in Taz and RVD because at their peak they had tons of charisma that was more of the type that they could use. Less so Mike Awesome, though you're right, I can definitely see WCW getting swept up in an imaginary bidding war over him. I feel like WWF just had a much better talent operation at that point, like I can't picture them kicking up a storm over someone like Awesome when you had guys like JR carefully watching over things. I think it's as simple as WCW believing WWF "discovered" Taz, and wanted to yank Awesome before the WWF "found" him. Edit: Vince and Heyman had shared talent and whatnot before, and had an existing relationship. WCW must've been aware, but were probably thinking that WWF 'promoting' ECW guys was going to be a regular thing, especially given Heyman's money problems.
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Feb 19, 2021 02:39
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Big Show seemed to do TOO good a job on SNL, because as you've noticed after Wrestlemania we immediately got BIG SHOW JUST WANTS TO HAVE FUN. Predictably, he'd end up in developmental within months... LESS THAN A YEAR AFTER BEING WWF CHAMPION.
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Feb 19, 2021 02:41
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Shine posted:Big Show is cool, and when you meet him in person you realize just how loving large he is. It makes sense that nobody has ever lifted him (he's too big). Speaking of Show and lifts. This one was terrifying when I saw it the other week. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oC01kw_wcgQ
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Feb 19, 2021 02:44
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Regarding Awesome and Taz, it still blows my mind that in the year 2000, a WWF wrestler fought a WCW wrestler in ECW, and everyone involved allowed it to happen.
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Feb 19, 2021 03:19
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I cannot stop loving watching Botchamania is there a support group/thread I haven't watched since the Attitude Era and I'm crying laughing help my face hurts I have 390 episodes to go please im dying
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Feb 19, 2021 03:21
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