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achillesforever6 posted:The big thing I get from comrades in VA is that Lee also has skeletons in his closet that are probably going to come out with him running. A couple years ago he just went and tweeted things from his past that would be embarrassing or suspect, so if there's more than that, that would definitely be a problem. Though what he did admit to was fairly benign compared to all the blackface going on with Northam or the domestic abuse from the Lt. Gov etc.
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Jan 5, 2021 14:31
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achillesforever6 posted:The big thing I get from comrades in VA is that Lee also has skeletons in his closet that are probably going to come out with him running. good thing that wasn't a concern when a guy who voted for George W Bush and turned out to have blackface photos ran in the Democratic Primary
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Jan 5, 2021 19:00
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Virginia legislature votes to legalize marijuana, abolish the death penalty.
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Feb 5, 2021 23:27
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nonrev posted:When I think of the labor vote in Virginia I think of abolishing right to work and giving public employees the right to strike. They won't and I will tell you why. Lee Carter hosed it. He has poo poo on every single one of his allies and made zero friends in the statehouse. He pulled some performative bullshit to get his Right to Work Repeal put at the head of the line in committee without getting cosigners and allies to sign on to it. It says "gently caress YOU" to your colleagues and caucus leadership and wins you no loving votes. He told some of his cosigners to basically gently caress themselves by doing this procedural committee wank-off. And guess what? That bill is dead now just so Lee Carter can say "YOU SEE, THEY ARE BAD SUCCLIBS". So the unions are pissed because unlike the terminally online, they understand how legislation gets made and Lee absolutely hosed it. Last year RTW Repeal was a really close vote! It could have happened this year if Lee Carter wasn't such a tiresome bore who NEVER STOPS POSTING. You know what is a great idea that is sure to win you friends and respect in the House? Otherizing all your colleagues you need to support your agenda by calling them "The electeds" and slamming them constantly on social media. You know what is great? Running a vanity campaign for governor and just going all out on using your office for performative bullshit that helps no one. Lee Carter is not going to be Governor nor should he be because he can't shut the gently caress up and stop getting in fights with people who helped him get elected on Twitter. Dude just got into the biggest poo poo fit with the DSA and his former campaign staff over them....sabotaging the left??? Like....way to poo poo on literally EVERYONE who supported and campaigned for you Lee. I tore my ACL pounding the pavement for this man and I called his office to tell them I will tear it again to replace him with someone who will actually do what we sent them there to do. He doesn't have the temperament, nor the ability to lead an entire state. If you want to support a progressive, support Joyce Carrol Foy, not Lee Carter. And even then, because Terry MacAulliife is running, Foy isn't going to win either and I am not upset at that really because T-Mac was a really good governor. The dude was well-liked by nearly everyone and has done right by Labor so he will get their endorsement which will prob help us hold onto our lead in both chambers. In short, Lee Carter was my boy, but he done hosed it and I am loving done with him. Progressives like Danica Roem achieve good results because they make friends, they don't just shitpost on twitter. I would think about 4 years of Trump people would realize that shitposting is bad when you are sent to do the people's work. And it is a goddamn tragedy because Lee had some really good legislation pass last year but he cant keep his goddamn mouth shut and alienates literally everyone like a terminally broke brained online leftist. ----------------------------------------------------------- In other news, the VA Budget is out and here is some cliff notes: http://vaplan.us/2021/02/15/time-to-talk-budget/ friendbot2000 fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Feb 18, 2021 |
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Feb 18, 2021 19:41
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its impressive how quickly lee carter was able to alienate literally every other member of the democratic caucus by being an unceasingly terminally online toxic shithead in person and in doing so absolutely sunk any prospect of pushing a pro-labor agenda which, led by any other person, would have found a ton of support. the va legislature right now is actually the perfect example of 'you can push things left by introducing things as the most progressive member and winning support' - and instead of using that opportunity lee carter has spent two years picking fights on twitter, lol.
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Feb 18, 2021 19:44
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Aruan posted:its impressive how quickly lee carter was able to alienate literally every other member of the democratic caucus by being an unceasingly terminally online toxic shithead in person and in doing so absolutely sunk any prospect of pushing a pro-labor agenda which, led by any other person, would have found a ton of support. the va legislature right now is actually the perfect example of 'you can push things left by introducing things as the most progressive member and winning support' - and instead of using that opportunity lee carter has spent two years picking fights on twitter, lol. It has been the most infuriating thing to watch as an organizer. HE HAD ONE JOB. We sent him there for RTW Repeal and he just hosed it. Last election, he dumped a massive oppo trove on twitter while drunk making it so much harder to defend him from challengers. Like...make them loving work for it Lee, goddamn. We spent a lot of resources countering his loving idiocy with that oppo dump and after this latest stunt I am just so loving done with him. He has not been a good ally and I am so loving angry at him. I sacrificed my health to get you elected Lee. gently caress you.
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Feb 18, 2021 19:47
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quote:Total of $47.59 billion in General Fund spending Anyways, a little more about Northams Budget Priorities, I put the interesting bits in bold. The House has an amendment putting the Teacher Pay Raises at 5 percent, but idk if that is gonna fly, much more likely that the Senate 3 percent raise passes than 5. The 3 percent raise for state employees in the Senate Ammendments is interesting and needed as well. The 1500 bonus for state employees is real good and I hope that passes because state employees are paid dogshit and that plus the raise will be nice for them
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Feb 18, 2021 19:56
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even if Lee Carter personally went to every one of his colleagues' houses and took a big nasty dump on their rug, that still wouldn't make it okay for them to support Right To Work For Less to spite him. Not repealing anti-worker laws is a decision they're making on their own, they're big grown men and women, not infants.
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Feb 18, 2021 19:59
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VitalSigns posted:even if Lee Carter personally went to every one of his colleagues' houses and took a big nasty dump on their rug, that still wouldn't make it okay for them to support Right To Work For Less to spite him. yes in a perfect world this would be true, but in a perfect would they'd support worker right's independent of lee carter because they're objectively good. the problem is that the standard bearer for worker's rights - who potentially could've pushed the entire democratic caucus left (because they've been pushed far left in other areas) - is too much of a toxic shithead to work with anyone who doesn't believe what he does, and even if is too toxic for some people who are in complete agreement with him. it sucks! he's poisoned the well.
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Feb 18, 2021 20:03
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Yeah sure, but he's not the reason it didn't happen. The reason it didn't happen is the other people didn't want to do it, that's why it's not happening. If there was a way to make them do it anyway, and Lee single-handedly hosed it up, then that's a fair point against him, but the op seemed to be absolving everyone else of any responsibility to legislate in the best interests of their constituents. At least that's how it seemed to me, like if Lee sucks for wanting to do good things but being bad at getting them done, then the people who don't even want to do good things unless forced into it are clearly both even worse and more at fault. Idk came off as blame-shifty to me, "how could you make me kill these workers Lee?!"
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Feb 18, 2021 20:08
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VitalSigns posted:Yeah sure, but he's not the reason it didn't happen. The reason it didn't happen is the other people didn't want to do it, that's why it's not happening. well i mean the reality is that the VA legislature isn't that progressive, despite what any of us here would want, but they are uniquely willing right now to accept progressive ideas (or allow progressive members to push their ideas to the left), despite their average political alignment falling probably toward the center of the democratic party. the challenge is the key to doing this is having good relationships with the rest of your caucus, so when you introduce something they're probably politically uncomfortable with, they'll support you anyway because they want to maintain party unity, they like you personally, or they expect your support elsewhere. lee carter had some initial success with this with his insulin bill - which wasn't exactly what he proposed, but is still an amazing development - but has fallen flat on his face with anything to do with labor. its basically the ted cruz effect - when people don't like you personally, your policies are not gonna get pursued - except its way more magnified because its local and everything is much smaller and personal. one of the things i think AOC is best at is having good personal relationships with people she also criticizes and disagrees with - because yes, decorum matters on some level (if decorum is not being a loving toxic shithead to people). lee carter is like a circa 2007 militant atheist: yea he's right, but gently caress nobody can stand him. Owlspiracy fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Feb 18, 2021 |
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Feb 18, 2021 20:10
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You can be outspoken and passionate without being an rear end in a top hat that alienates people, and unfortunately it sounds like Lee didn't manage that part.
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Feb 18, 2021 20:19
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Angry_Ed posted:You can be outspoken and passionate without being an rear end in a top hat that alienates people, and unfortunately it sounds like Lee didn't manage that part.
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Feb 18, 2021 20:27
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VitalSigns posted:even if Lee Carter personally went to every one of his colleagues' houses and took a big nasty dump on their rug, that still wouldn't make it okay for them to support Right To Work For Less to spite him. Personal relationships actually matter at this level and being an absolute rear end in a top hat to everyone is why poo poo doesn't happen. This is being an absolute rear end in a top hat to your friends and allies in the Legislature for no goddamn reason not "so and so didn't get invited to a Congressional party so they'll spike your legislation". This is actual stuff that matters in the Legislature. Why would you stick your neck out and take a tough vote for a guy who acts like that? I'm very excited for Lee to get his rear end kicked out of the House this year and replaced by someone who will actually accomplish things beyond pissing off all their allies so they can make sick burns on Twitter. Lee's destroyed his political career and I'm so pissed he ended up being a loving dumbass. Lance of Llanwyln posted:What did he do, expose the fact that the Virginia Dems don't consider repealing Right-to-Work a priority? Because they very obviously don't want to repeal it, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion. Blaming Lee Carter for it seems like the easy way out, regardless of his culpability, because it concentrates blame on the one leftist rather than Virginia Democrats more generally. Personally, I think it's good to have clarity on where elected representatives stand on such pressing issues. Virginia is not a socialist paradise despite what people on Twitter may scream about. Things are actually pretty moderate here despite a Dem trifecta. Doing something other than screaming "gently caress YOU SUCCLIB" on Twitter is required to get people on board with your ideas. Posting is not praxis no matter how much brain-poisoned toxic morons insist it is. You need to actually do the work. The sad thing is, if he had done even 1/4 of what Roem is doing this would be in the bag but he just cannot log off. Again, it's telling that the labor unions in VA have abandoned this guy. axeil fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Feb 18, 2021 |
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Feb 18, 2021 20:27
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Looking at his twitter, idk, seems fine. Got any examples of toxicity? Just seems like he has bad political instincts. I;m sure his bid will fail but it feels like people in this thread are harder on him because he's a socialist and people either pinned their hopes on him or hate socialism. VA dems weren't getting rid of RTW no matter how many people liked him lol. It's mostly neoliberal dems
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Feb 18, 2021 20:42
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On the other hand, it's your responsibility as a legislator to act in the best interests of your constituents and sometimes that means working with assholes. It's interesting that "well they just aren't progressive, that's just the way they are" is somehow an excuse for the people telling workers to get hosed and go die somewhere, but I assume "he's just an rear end in a top hat that's just the way he is" wouldn't be accepted as an excuse for Lee doing whatever he's doing ("not logging off", I guess, which is apparently worse than being a relentless corporate tool, somehow) So sad that all of the Virginia legislators are philosophical zombies, and Lee alone is the only man with the faculties of agency and choice.
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Feb 18, 2021 20:45
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Maybe it's just a natural human reaction to an egregiously broken and failed political system. The system can't fail, we must have been stabbed in the back by an internal traitor in such a way that it makes it look exactly like the Democratic trifecta is in the pocket of business!
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Feb 18, 2021 20:49
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VitalSigns posted:On the other hand, it's your responsibility as a legislator to act in the best interests of your constituents and sometimes that means working with assholes. nobody is excusing the fact that virginia legislators aren't progressive enough, we're just pointing out that the actual progressive member couldn't help being such a toxic shithead that he's managed to alienate the rest of the caucus, the DSA and all of the labor unions, which sucks.
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Feb 18, 2021 20:49
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Aruan posted:nobody is excusing the fact that virginia legislators aren't progressive enough, we're just pointing out that the actual progressive member couldn't help being such a toxic shithead that he's managed to alienate the rest of the caucus, the DSA and all of the labor unions, which sucks. oh ok well it seemed like that was happening when all the blame is put on one man, seems very unlikely that one legislator singlehandedly stopped everyone else from helping workers
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Feb 18, 2021 20:50
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VitalSigns posted:oh ok you can point out lee being a toxic shithead without also having to point out that centrist dems are bad. i do think its uniquely impressive in a comedy way - this is SA after all - that he's managed to alienate both both the DSA, labor unions AND centrists
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Feb 18, 2021 20:52
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With Lee running for governor, does that mean he's abdicating re-election to his House district? Or can he run for both and once his gubernatorial campaign inevitably flames out he focuses back on his House race? I ask because I feel like he's still vulnerable from a halfway decent GOP challenger, and I don't know how a Dem primary would swing. I worry that some typical corporate Dem will primary him from the right, when ideally another solid progressive would be the best choice. But I can only imagine a non-Lee progressive would run if he himself is not running for re-election.
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Feb 18, 2021 20:57
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Aruan posted:you can point out lee being a toxic shithead without also having to point out that centrist dems are bad. sure, but the op said it was all Lee's fault, which, come on. That's not "you can say someone hosed up without pointing out everyone else who hosed up too", and I think you know the difference between pointing something out and blaming one guy for everything including other people's actions
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Feb 18, 2021 20:57
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So you have any more about this being Lee's fault? I found this article suggesting it wasn't going anywhere before he tried to force the vote. https://www.virginiamercury.com/blog-va/va-house-leaders-block-lee-carters-effort-to-force-vote-on-right-to-work-repeal/ Some sources besides "I'm from VA" would help
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Feb 18, 2021 21:36
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Harold Fjord posted:So you have any more about this being Lee's fault? I found this article suggesting it wasn't going anywhere before he tried to force the vote. https://www.virginiamercury.com/blog-va/va-house-leaders-block-lee-carters-effort-to-force-vote-on-right-to-work-repeal/ Why should Friendbot doxx themselves to you to prove they know what they're talking about? They've talked at length over the years about their activism in VA.
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Feb 18, 2021 21:41
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Harold Fjord posted:So you have any more about this being Lee's fault? I found this article suggesting it wasn't going anywhere before he tried to force the vote. https://www.virginiamercury.com/blog-va/va-house-leaders-block-lee-carters-effort-to-force-vote-on-right-to-work-repeal/ Friendbot is well-known on these forums for having posted at length about activism in general and their own efforts in particular. Their word is good enough for me.
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Feb 18, 2021 21:44
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OK well Lee is also from VA and he says it's not his fault, and we can't question that because he's from VA. But yeah, Right To Work has a long history of bipartisan support, back to its creation under Taft-Hartley, a bipartisan "gently caress labor" bill passed over Truman's veto (to his credit). There's just absolutely massive institutional forces keeping it in place especially after decades of labor movements being crushed, especially in states with a history of Right To Work and therefore a strong business sector and weak collective bargaining (thanks to Right To Work), to the point that the only successful repeal of Right To Work (I think possibly ever) was done by referendum in Missouri just after the Republican trifecta enacted it, I don't think it's ever been repealed legislatively anywhere. So I'm skeptical that Lee Carter had the power either to single-handedly pass, or single-handedly kill a repeal attempt. It just seems like a lot of blame-shifting and finger-pointing to me, take a bill that Democrats don't support anywhere, a guy in Virginia starts pushing it, and the entire party fights back and kills it dead and then blames the guy they defeated for "making them" do it, when they were obviously never going to do it just like they never do it in states without a Lee Carter to conveniently pin a dolschtoss narrative on.
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Feb 18, 2021 21:49
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If we all agree the centrist Democrats are bad people for not supporting RTW repeal by default, it seems like there are two strategies if you are a legislator that wants to repeal it: 1) persuade them 2) call them succdem shitlibs Idk if (1) has a chance of working but (2) definitely does not.
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Feb 18, 2021 21:50
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It sounds like Lee's problem is he sucks at politics, which is unfortunate if you are a politician
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Feb 18, 2021 21:52
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RBA Starblade posted:It sounds like Lee's problem is he sucks at politics, which is unfortunate if you are a politician p much. nobody is saying "WELL LEE CARTER IS THE ONLY REASON WE STILL HAVE RIGHT TO WORK IN VA", we're saying that it sucks because lee carter forever being an rear end in a top hat squandered an opportunity to try to convince centrist dems to support right to work. nobody is criticizing lee carter for his politics (which are good), but because he can't stop acting like a shithead, which is a problem when he's one of the few progressive who's managed to secure a tiny bit of power. again, yes, in a perfect world being a persuasive person or having good people skills wouldn't matter, just the true clarity of ideas, but that's not the world we live in. in pretty much every single workplace, and in every single context, being a dick to people you work with tends to have negative repercussions, regardless of how correct or righteous you are. like, it seems that lee carter is kind of the perfect manifestation of the DSA: when he's able to achieve power, is completely undone by his inability to build bridges or move beyond petty bullshit. and as a progressive, that sucks!
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Feb 18, 2021 21:55
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Aruan posted:p much. nobody is saying "WELL LEE CARTER IS THE ONLY REASON WE STILL HAVE RIGHT TO WORK IN VA", we're saying that it sucks because lee carter being an rear end in a top hat squandered an opportunity to try to convince centrist dems to support right to work. nobody is criticizing lee carter for his politics (which are good), but because he can't stop acting like a shithead, which is a problem when he's one of the few progressive who's managed to secure a tiny bit of power. again, yes, in a perfect world being a persuasive person or having good people skills wouldn't matter, just the true clarity of ideas, but that's not the world we live in. in pretty much every single workplace, and in every single context, being a dick to people you work with tends to have negative repercussions, regardless of how correct or righteous you are. friendbot2000 posted:They won't and I will tell you why. Lee Carter hosed it. Hm.
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Feb 18, 2021 21:57
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Badger of Basra posted:If we all agree the centrist Democrats are bad people for not supporting RTW repeal by default, it seems like there are two strategies if you are a legislator that wants to repeal it: yea but 2 gets you a lot of retweets on twitter from randoms and people throwing money after your doomed governor campaign, so who's to say what's better in the end (its the people who live in VA who get to say, and some of us are saying its bad)
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Feb 18, 2021 21:58
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Who asked anyone to doxx, I'm asking for a source that is not them. "You wasted the opportunity to get 10 more people on board with what the leadership was going to kill anyway" as a lot less punch I suppose
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Feb 18, 2021 21:58
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Aruan posted:p much. nobody is saying "WELL LEE CARTER IS THE ONLY REASON WE STILL HAVE RIGHT TO WORK IN VA", uh huh friendbot2000 posted:
seems pretty cut and dry: it's dead now because of this one guy and this one thing he did, and he killed it on purpose so he could call people succlibs
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Feb 18, 2021 21:59
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Is Lee Carter bad now?
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Feb 18, 2021 22:00
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yes, lee carter squandered an opportunity, which sucks. when the status quo is 'generally hostile to labor' - which is the status quo in virginia, although there has been a lot of progress in labor rights in the last two years, just not getting rid of RTW - and you finally get a labor advocate in a position to try to actually convince politicians to upend the status quo at a unique time when even centrist VA dems are supporting things like marijauna legalization or serious criminal justice reform - it is very fair to criticize that politician for being too terminally online to actually build the human relationships which are the prerequisite to advocating for his positions. at this point lee carter has seemingly managed to alienate literally everyone not named lee carter in VA, including labor unions and even the local DSA chapters, so clearly he has serious problems in relating to human beings. which is lovely because i agree with his policies. as i said up thread, he's a 2007 militant atheist: right in principle, but still loving insufferable. Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Is Lee Carter bad now? he has good political opinions but is bad at politics, which sucks because him having some measure of power was a real opportunity to push forward important progressive policies. and we know this could work: see, his insulin bill.
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Feb 18, 2021 22:01
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you're doing this weird thing where you're saying "I'm only fairly criticizing him for squandering an opportunity" which okay, but then also insisting that nobody is blaming it all on him despite the guy whose word you're taking on all of this clearly blaming it on him and accusing him of doing it on purpose so he could dunk on succlibs when they voted against it E: well maybe not doing it on purpose necessarily, but he's definitely accusing Lee of letting it fail to accomplish his allegedly greater goal of dunking on people who were powerless to do anything but vote against it thanks to him VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Feb 18, 2021 |
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Feb 18, 2021 22:04
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Noone is saying that Lee Carter is the reason there is still Right to Work in Virgina, besides the person who is saying that, and is the sole source for Lee Carter being the problem here, who you would prefer had said something else instead. Got it.
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Feb 18, 2021 22:06
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VitalSigns posted:you're doing this weird thing where you're saying "I'm only fairly criticizing him for squandering an opportunity" which okay, but then also insisting that nobody is blaming it all on him despite the guy whose word you're taking on all of this clearly blaming it on him and accusing him of doing it on purpose so he could dunk on succlibs when they voted against it i don't have the specific context that friendbot does, and he might be right, but i think we're both speaking to a general point that lee carter is completely unable to build the personal connections which are extremely important - perhaps more important than actual political belief - in state level politics. like, i hope this isn't news to anyone here, but networking is important - and if its important in general, its extra important in politics. quote:E: well maybe not doing it on purpose necessarily, but he's definitely accusing Lee of letting it fail to accomplish his allegedly greater goal of dunking on people who were powerless to do anything but vote against it thanks to him just saw your edit - my perspective is that it was less 'letting it fail' as much 'never giving it a chance to succeed by favoring the performative over the practical'
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Feb 18, 2021 22:07
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Ok show me where he sucks at it? I guess the issue is only having one anonymous source on any of this who can't be doxxed so we just have to believe them instead of providing literally anything from local news. I'm not clear on how we know that a significant margin of Dems who might have done things different if he played better with others, even given that it's true. It's just " this leftist sucks and he just wants to post" and bunch of other posters nodding im agreement. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Feb 18, 2021 |
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Feb 18, 2021 22:10
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Harold Fjord posted:Ok show me where he sucks at it? I guess the issue is only having one anonymous source on any of this who can't be doxxed so we just have to believe them instead of providing literally anything from local news. his entire campaign for governor is 'look at all these garbage lying democrats' which makes it very hard to then turn to those people you are explicitly and pointedly calling out as lying hacks, frauds and corporate shills and say 'hey can you support my bill.' thats the point. if you're going to devote your time in office to pillory members of your own party, so be it, but that makes it hard to get those people to support the bills you want to support, especially in local politics where relationships matter a lot. and its especially frustrating when his campaign is entirely performative because it is doomed to failure, and i don't think losing campaigns focusing on messaging are more important than passing meaningful legislation. like, if you're going to say 'ok but he's right! all those dems are bad!' my response is, 'ok, then so what?' because at the end of the day you still have to work with all those other terrible democrats because its your caucus, so positioning yourself as the only good candidate and all of them as irredeemable succdems is going to have consequences, and those consequences are unfortunately the end of his legislative agenda.
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Feb 18, 2021 22:16
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