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RC and Moon Pie posted:The 2001 draft class of quarterbacks is certainly interesting in retrospect. I was so mad when we passed on Vick to take some RB from a mid major I'd never heard of
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Feb 19, 2021 19:02
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a neat cape posted:This is where I am with Herbert too. I think Herbert has more fundamentals than Allen does. More importantly, he doesn't have the idiot eyes
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Feb 19, 2021 19:05
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Grittybeard posted:If only he had kept that streak going. I get triggered just seeing his name in print
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Feb 19, 2021 19:06
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Nodoze posted:I think Herbert has more fundamentals than Allen does. More importantly, he doesn't have the idiot eyes He's got the idiot hair
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Feb 19, 2021 20:27
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is 2013 considered the gold standard for “no qb talent” drafts
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Feb 19, 2021 20:34
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It's sort of the standard for no talent drafts. Off the top of my head Hopkins was the only 1st rounder worth a poo poo.
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Feb 19, 2021 20:38
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The Puppy Bowl posted:It's sort of the standard for no talent drafts. Off the top of my head Hopkins was the only 1st rounder worth a poo poo. Lane Johnson is pretty good, as are Eric Reid and Travis Frederick (RIP). Later in the draft you find Ertz, Leveon Bell, Kelce, Honey Badger, Keenan Allen (3rd!!). A few others but that's pretty much it actually. So if you were drafting OL you did ok unless you bit on Eric Fisher or Joeckel but iirc they both had legitimate cases as to why they'd be studs forever.
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Feb 19, 2021 20:43
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pasaluki posted:He's got the idiot hair Only when he cut it
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Feb 19, 2021 20:48
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Yeah, looking it over it's not as bare as I remember. Lots of guys who are solids contributors, plenty who have had long productive careers, and even some household names. Just a total lack of star power at the top. As far as Baltimore goes I knew Matt Elam would suck day one. However I also "knew" Arthur Brown was the perfect modern middle linebacker.
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Feb 19, 2021 20:51
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Nodoze posted:Only when he cut it He said he's growing it back!
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Feb 19, 2021 20:59
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a neat cape posted:He said he's growing it back! Yeah, best offseason news so far
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Feb 19, 2021 21:07
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RC and Moon Pie posted:The 2001 draft class of quarterbacks is certainly interesting in retrospect. There were even moments where people thought Carter might be a decent pro.
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Feb 19, 2021 22:27
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kiimo posted:I get triggered just seeing his name in print As far as I know Cassel is a decent guy and it's a hell of a thing he ever had an NFL career, but 
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Feb 19, 2021 22:33
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I think one of the reasons the 13 draft stands out so much as being god-awful is because the 11 and 12 drafts were so good. outside the quarterback position you can make a pretty compelling argument 2011 was the best draft class of all time.
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Feb 19, 2021 22:38
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a neat cape posted:How were EJ Manuel and JP Losman 1st rounders  Losman was a really athletic player who moved well and had an absolute cannon, but his footwork and throwing motion were utter poo poo and his pocket awareness was next-level bad. I'll never forget one example in particular: the Bills were playing the Jets, were up 4, with ~2 minutes left, and Losman takes the snap and rolls out lazily to the right, with an unblocked Jets defender bearing down on him from the left edge. Losman's literally just standing there, double-clutching the ball, dancing, and then he gets annihilated from behind, fumbles, and the Jets recover and return it for a TD for the win. Apparently, he was also kind of a poo poo head and seemed to struggle processing defenses. Jameis Winston level ball security issues on top of everything else. Manuel was a reach in a weak QB class, and selected mostly on the basis that he looked like a franchise QB: he was tall, he could throw the ball hard, etc. etc. He seemed like a genuinely good guy who was trying hard, but his processing speed was glacial and he would crumble under pressure. Turfing passes and poo poo. Then he would get frustrated and play even worse. He would, on occasion, look really good, like in the second half of the Jaguars game in London, but he played so horribly in the 1st half he was almost benched for Josh Johnson, who had been on the team for a few days at that point. That 1st half was some Brian Brohm level poo poo.
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Feb 19, 2021 23:01
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Eifert Posting posted:I think one of the reasons the 13 draft stands out so much as being god-awful is because the 11 and 12 drafts were so good. Then make the case. Prove it! Why was the 2011 draft class the best of all time?
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Feb 20, 2021 00:17
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Ponder wasn't a reach. The Vikings just hoped his shoulder would heal and he would get his arm strength back. It never did so now we think of him as a noodle armed reach. He would have been good if not for the injury.
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Feb 20, 2021 00:51
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MrLogan posted:Ponder wasn't a reach. The Vikings just hoped his shoulder would heal and he would get his arm strength back. It never did so now we think of him as a noodle armed reach. No he wouldn't have
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Feb 20, 2021 00:57
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Metapod posted:No he wouldn't have I know you love Jake Locker, but I think Ponder was better.
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Feb 20, 2021 00:58
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Ornery and Hornery posted:Then make the case. Prove it! Why was the 2011 draft class the best of all time? So at QB you just have Cam Newton, Eh, I guess not the best but when he inevitably breaks you have &e as a backup. Even Cam may have a hard time breaking because your offensive line has Tyron Smith and Nate Solder at tackle, and some combination of Clint Boling, Rodney Hudson, Jason Kelce and Mike Pouncey at interior O-line. Those are the weakest aspects of the team. At WR you just have some nerds named AJ Green, Julio Jones outside and Randall Cobb in the slot. You have Vincent Brown and Dwayn Harris (who can return your kicks if you don't want to risk Patrick Peterson) for depth. At tight end you're making due with Kyle Rudolph Julius Thomas and Jordan Cameron You have Mark Ingram and Demarco Murray at HB Offense is good, not great, right? OK at Defense you have: Cameron Heyward and Jurrelll Casey inside, JJ Watt, Ryan Kerrigan, Cameron Heyward and Robert Quinn outside. Just FYI you cut 4 or 5 pro-bowlers. Your linebackers include Von Miller, Aldon Smith and Justin Houston. If you wanted to have someone who isn't a pass rusher you get a KJ Wright, Malcolm Smith or Mason Foster. I'm not sure anyone's ever actually getting a pass off with that pass rush, but if they did you'd have Patrick Peterson and Richard Sherman outside, Jimmy Smith regulated to slot corner, Byron Maxwell for depth. Safety admittedly is weak, but look at that pass rush. Who's ever getting a ball more than 5 yards downfield? Iunno, Rahim Moore. I guess it's more appropriate to say it's DEFINITELY the best draft ever for pass rushers, after going through it. It is a little weak at interior O-line and DB outside a couple stand outs.
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Feb 20, 2021 01:01
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It would have been pretty cool if Michael Vick was drafted nowadays when offenses are made for guys like him and not back then when loving Jim Mora Jr. wanted Vick to run a West Coast offense
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Feb 20, 2021 01:06
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Lance of Llanwyln posted:I'll never forget one example in particular: the Bills were playing the Jets, were up 4, with ~2 minutes left, and Losman takes the snap and rolls out lazily to the right, with an unblocked Jets defender bearing down on him from the left edge. Losman's literally just standing there, double-clutching the ball, dancing, and then he gets annihilated from behind, fumbles, and the Jets recover and return it for a TD for the win. Lance that exact poo poo right there was my lowest point as a Bills fan. Up until that point I had made it but something about that just owned me so hard. I still to this day have no idea what he was even trying to do, and I wish JP Losman was never born.
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Feb 20, 2021 01:53
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pasaluki posted:Lance that exact poo poo right there was my lowest point as a Bills fan. Up until that point I had made it but something about that just owned me so hard. I still to this day have no idea what he was even trying to do, and I wish JP Losman was never born. I still can't believe we have a quarterback who doesn't suck.
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Feb 20, 2021 01:58
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Still feel like for me the McKelvin fumble against the Patriots was the defining play of that wicked ugly uniformed era, but woof, this is a drat fine candidate. https://youtu.be/vySGAGUe3zg
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Feb 20, 2021 02:47
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MrLogan posted:I know you love Jake Locker, but I think Ponder was better. ponder always had a noodle arm, shoulder or no
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Feb 20, 2021 04:11
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Ponder wasn’t as big a reach as Manuel but he was never going to be a good NFL QB.
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Feb 20, 2021 06:27
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The thing about most QBs who aren't #1s is that usually they have glaring faults that mean they'll never play in the NFL. There's been 118 QBs drafted in the last ten years, not counting UDFA, and 10-15 teams need QBs or could use upgrades this year. Turnover rate for the position is absolutely nuts. Gut says to treat QBs like anyone who isn't Lawrence level is a coin flip at best on being good. Obviously the EJ Manuels and Christian Ponders of the world are going to bust, but NFL GMs still take that low chance that the guy might turn into something good to great because the competition is that much worse.
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Feb 20, 2021 07:42
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I remember Ej having one good game. To beat the panthers.
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Feb 20, 2021 10:01
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I know it's difficult because they have one more year of games to start and develop or crash and burn, but how good or bad is the next class of QBs? Say, how Sam Howell would compare to the non-Lawrence QBs in this draft?
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Feb 20, 2021 14:20
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Mystic Stylez posted:I know it's difficult because they have one more year of games to start and develop or crash and burn, but how good or bad is the next class of QBs? Say, how Sam Howell would compare to the non-Lawrence QBs in this draft? I mean, it's a year out after a year of very little college football, but generally it's thought to be much weaker. Obviously, grain of salt as there's a whole season for people to Burrow, but at this stage last year everyone was drooling over Fields and Lawrence already
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Feb 20, 2021 14:46
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Thinking the Niners should grab a WR or DB, is Surtain II likely to be there at 12th?
El Gallinero Gros fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 17:04
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Mystic Stylez posted:I know it's difficult because they have one more year of games to start and develop or crash and burn, but how good or bad is the next class of QBs? Say, how Sam Howell would compare to the non-Lawrence QBs in this draft? howell is really good; he’d probably be in the convo with fields and wilson for the 2nd pick
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Feb 20, 2021 17:12
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tarbrush posted:I mean, it's a year out after a year of very little college football, but generally it's thought to be much weaker. Howie Roseman, on why he traded up for Wentz: "The 2017 QB class isn't very good" People say next year's class sucks every year
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Feb 20, 2021 18:20
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Howie Roseman, on why he traded up for Wentz: "The 2017 QB class isn't very good" Yeah. But it's almost certainly not going to be 3 qbs in the first three picks good.
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Feb 20, 2021 18:26
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tarbrush posted:Yeah. But it's almost certainly not going to be 3 qbs in the first three picks good. it probably will be close, quarterback is the only position that matters and teams are desperate for them so quarterbacks will continue to climb. it's almost impossible to imagine the number one pick not being a quarterback in the future.
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Feb 20, 2021 18:29
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ngl I’m upset that the Eagles are likely taking a QB here. I realize it’s the best choice and all, but the idea of Smith or Chase or even Waddle being on my team had me embarrassingly excited. We haven’t had a truly good wideout on the roster since Maclin. It’s generally believed that Fields goes to the jets, right? That would leave Lance and Wilson. Lance is the comedy option due to Wentz having just left.
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Feb 20, 2021 19:19
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Declan MacManus posted:howell is really good; he’d probably be in the convo with fields and wilson for the 2nd pick Yeah, fields and Wilson would ordinarily be #1 caliber guys in good-average QB years. Howell looks like he’s going to be a first rounder but there will be questions about that offense’s complexity given how much of it looks like a middle ground between the Briles tree and what Ole Miss was doing under late freeze, but he’s got an NFL arm from a velocity and air standpoint with the main questions being how choppy and weird his feet get and how deep into a progression he can get. I love what I’ve seen of his ball flight and accuracy though—reminds me a lot of Baker coming out in the way he picks his spots. The real question next year to me is Slovis. I think he’s got a bigger arm and more complicated offense with how Harrell runs his offenses, but the injury concerns and fact that he looks less accurate than Howell with better talent around him makes that interesting.
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Feb 20, 2021 19:35
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ASAPRockySituation posted:It’s generally believed that Fields goes to the jets, right? That would leave Lance and Wilson. Lance is the comedy option due to Wentz having just left. There’s been a lot of chatter about Wilson being QB2 and he’s consistently being mocked to the Jets. I dunno if I buy that though. Joe Douglas in his only draft has gone for ceiling and athleticism with his premium picks and I think he’ll probably favor Fields.
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Feb 20, 2021 19:35
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Diva Cupcake posted:There’s been a lot of chatter about Wilson being QB2 and he’s consistently being mocked to the Jets. I dunno if I buy that though. Joe Douglas in his only draft has gone for ceiling and athleticism with his premium picks and I think he’ll probably favor Fields. i mean wilson has a really high ceiling because he’s got a big ole fuckin howitzer for an arm, probably the most raw arm strength of anyone in this class not named trevor lawrence
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Feb 20, 2021 19:46
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He also has off-platform throws so of course he's the next Mahomes
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Feb 20, 2021 20:02
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