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Infinitum posted:How do you train someone out of analysis paralysis? Beat them to near death?
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Feb 20, 2021 03:04
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Play with a timer, slowest player automatically loses. Need games with no upkeep phases e.g Concordia. Play blitz chess. Its a skill you can develop
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Feb 20, 2021 03:06
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Explain that when it's not your actual turn you should be looking at the board and planning your next turn. Less poo poo talking, more thinking etc. Obviously some games have game states that change wildly between player turns so it's not always possible, but still.
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Feb 20, 2021 03:08
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If someone put down a chess clock while board gaming I probably wouldn't play with them again. e: just make fun of them op. They're still going to do it but you get to make fun of them.
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Feb 20, 2021 03:08
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I know someone who likes the time pressure that a clock gives them. For Through the Ages he gives an hour per player, turns it off during game upkeep phases, rule is you go over your hour you lose. He never goes over his time but he absolutely would if he didn’t have any external pressure.
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Feb 20, 2021 03:25
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I have two friends with AP and one of them said that he had to kind of surrender his hope of winning to get past it. He still wins plenty because he's smart and good at games, but emotionally he had to let go of it in order to be fun to play games with. The other friend is still struggling.
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Feb 20, 2021 03:52
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To overcome my AP and also people being sore losers, "just repeat to yourself its just a show and you should really just relax."
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Feb 20, 2021 04:02
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Mr. Squishy posted:If someone put down a chess clock while board gaming I probably wouldn't play with them again. If you are slow enough that I need to break out the chess clock, I don't want to play with you again.
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Feb 20, 2021 04:12
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rydiafan posted:If you are slow enough that I need to break out the chess clock, I don't want to play with you again. You guys probably shouldn't play games together. That's my takeaway.
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Feb 20, 2021 04:28
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homullus posted:I have two friends with AP and one of them said that he had to kind of surrender his hope of winning to get past it. He still wins plenty because he's smart and good at games, but emotionally he had to let go of it in order to be fun to play games with. The other friend is still struggling. TBH this is a valuable lesson for gaming in general. There are people who just intuitively grasp this and can still play to win while being chill, but the majority of my bad experiences at the table have been caused by someone getting too emotionally invested in the outcome of a game.
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Feb 20, 2021 04:42
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Yeah I'm considering a timer, we are currently playing Steampunk Rally and they are taking 10min each turn to do setup + draft with everybody else ready to go after about a minute
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Feb 20, 2021 04:50
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I have mild AP and I love chess clocks. Fundamentally I'm much happier being forced to make decisions by the threat of losing than I am being forced to make decisions by the sense that my friends will be annoyed with me if I take too long (whatever "too long") is. I played Splendor with a chess clock and I think it's just the right way to play the game. Through the Ages sounds similarly appealing. Unfortunately most games, especially games that aren't 2p or that don't have well-defined turns, don't work as well with one.
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Feb 20, 2021 05:02
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The reason I suggest chess clocks is the fundamental thing people with AP don't understand is that other people's time is a resource they are spending without their consent and people might not like that. You need to have that chat - in those very explicit terms - with people. Gamifying it will help people understand by putting it in concrete in front of people and also teach them improved time management. Alternatively just play Sidereal Confluence with them until they die. Edit: the other advantage that a game clock has is that it puts a very explicit limit on how long 'to long' is rather than relying on a social contract where everyone probably has a different soft definition of reasonable. You each have 30 minutes for this game of Concordia. Cthulhu Dreams fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 05:24
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:Alternatively just play Sidereal Confluence with them until they die. this would not be a wasted life
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Feb 20, 2021 05:31
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Gosh dang it, I don't pay too close attention to this thread, but the SUSD review of Hansa Teutonica sold me on it, and it's sold out everywhere!!
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Feb 20, 2021 05:40
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manero posted:Gosh dang it, I don't pay too close attention to this thread, but the SUSD review of Hansa Teutonica sold me on it, and it's sold out everywhere!! These two things are possibly linked in some way.
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Feb 20, 2021 05:40
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silvergoose posted:These two things are possibly linked in some way. I have learned my lesson
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Feb 20, 2021 05:41
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Hansa Teutonica Big Box has also been delayed several times, so I'm still waiting for it to launch on a pre-order. So gl trying to find it for a while particularly when Quinn's goes "I will always play Hansa if someone asks"
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Feb 20, 2021 05:48
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manero posted:Gosh dang it, I don't pay too close attention to this thread, but the SUSD review of Hansa Teutonica sold me on it, and it's sold out everywhere!! Not even Quinns could make me hyped for a euro game, as enthusiastic as he was for the Hansa Teutonica. I don't know whether euros aren't for me or I just haven't met the right colored cube placement point scoring game.
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Feb 20, 2021 06:51
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LifeLynx posted:Not even Quinns could make me hyped for a euro game, as enthusiastic as he was for the Hansa Teutonica. I don't know whether euros aren't for me or I just haven't met the right colored cube placement point scoring game. Glancing over your post history and I see you like Carcassonne, which is a classic euro. Spirit Island is very much a euro-puzzler too. You might have meant it in the more "trading in the Mediterranean midweight euro brown board point salad" sense though going by your last line. In that case, yeah most of them are bland and forgettable, but the good ones are worth it. Things like Keyflower, HT, Tigris & Euphrates, and Agricola all hold up and are at least worth trying if you get the chance.
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Feb 20, 2021 07:32
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Any of you heard anything about or played Last Aurora or Neon Knights?
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Feb 20, 2021 07:35
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nrook posted:I have mild AP and I love chess clocks. Fundamentally I'm much happier being forced to make decisions by the threat of losing than I am being forced to make decisions by the sense that my friends will be annoyed with me if I take too long (whatever "too long") is. For more than 2 players there was a cube that had a clock on each face and it counted the timer of the face that was currently on top. It looks like it got discontinued though. It was the DGT Cube.
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Feb 20, 2021 07:43
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If you haven't tried Chess Clock Jenga and have the materials give it a go. Really adds a lot to the game.
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Feb 20, 2021 09:53
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homullus posted:I have two friends with AP and one of them said that he had to kind of surrender his hope of winning to get past it. He still wins plenty because he's smart and good at games, but emotionally he had to let go of it in order to be fun to play games with. The other friend is still struggling. Simply teach them nothing matters in life, least of all a game. They might end up filled with ennui, but at least they won't have AP anymore.
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Feb 20, 2021 13:57
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Aramoro posted:Simply teach them nothing matters in life, least of all a game. They might end up filled with ennui, but at least they won't have AP anymore. Ah, the Philisopher's Gambit.
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Feb 20, 2021 14:07
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i just go with my gut and lose a lot, works for me i still have fun
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Feb 20, 2021 15:08
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jesus WEP posted:i just go with my gut and lose a lot, works for me i still have fun 
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Feb 20, 2021 15:56
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jesus WEP posted:i just go with my gut and lose a lot, works for me i still have fun That's fine in some games, in others I feel like, if I'm not thinking then why even play?
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Feb 20, 2021 16:10
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PerniciousKnid posted:That's fine in some games, in others I feel like, if I'm not thinking then why even play? I think most people can tell what the vibe is at the table, at least most of the crew I play with (in normal times). I don't mind if someone has AP one round because there's a lot of important things going on. If it's chronic though, that's a different story. Some games have enough randomness built in that you're never going to be able to make the "right" decision anyway. Particularly in hard strategy games though, I want to know my opponents are being smart and trying to win, otherwise what's the point in me trying too?
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Feb 20, 2021 16:13
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silvergoose posted:Ah, the Philisopher's Gambit. 
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Feb 20, 2021 16:17
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Infinitum posted:Hansa Teutonica Big Box has also been delayed several times, so I'm still waiting for it to launch on a pre-order. Yeah I ordered it about a year ago and it was supposed to be imminent. Now I have it and while it gives me a superficial warm feeling seeing it on my shelf I can't play the drat thing until I can get a couple more people involved than just my wife. One of many things to look forward to when lockdown eases.
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Feb 20, 2021 16:27
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PerniciousKnid posted:That's fine in some games, in others I feel like, if I'm not thinking then why even play? In my opinion, games have a tempo. The time you should be taking to play a turn in Splendor is different than the time you could be taking to take a turn in 1830. What's important to me is that the table plays games at a reasonable pace. Yes, some turns will take longer but other turns can be at the usual pace of the game. The problem I have is with players who nearly every turn want to examine every possibility. While they may find some enjoyment in this, people aren't playing the game to watch that player go through a dozen permutations. And that player should realize that. Just because they want to think 'thoroughly' about their play doesn't give them the right to do so.
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Feb 20, 2021 16:28
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Can someone who listened to NPI's discussion about colonialism in board games give a one paragraph summary? Thanks!
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Feb 20, 2021 16:29
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homullus posted:I have two friends with AP and one of them said that he had to kind of surrender his hope of winning to get past it. He still wins plenty because he's smart and good at games, but emotionally he had to let go of it in order to be fun to play games with. The other friend is still struggling. It's counter intuitive, but my experience with chess clocks is that it takes pressure off, weirdly. And this right here is the reason why. If you have infinite time, you can come to the correct conclusion, and so not spending the time to do so it's admitting defeat, which feels bad. But with an imposed deadline, then you 'don't' have forever, so getting the perfect answer is now the wrong answer, since it will take too long. Now the best answer is actually "the best answer you can come up with quickly". You don't have to worry about 'perfect' anymore, because you can write that off immediately as a bad option, and it's not you putting an arbitrary self imposed limit on your successes, it's actually optimal. Thus the 'snap' element of a snap decision is a large tick in any choices favour, much bigger than any small edge you might find if you dwell on it longer. And also, your snap decision could by chance happen to also be the best one, and what happens is you notice the being the case more and more and learn to trust your gut. Which is again, less stressful.
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Feb 20, 2021 16:42
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Mayveena posted:In my opinion, games have a tempo. The time you should be taking to play a turn in Splendor is different than the time you could be taking to take a turn in 1830. What's important to me is that the table plays games at a reasonable pace. Yes, some turns will take longer but other turns can be at the usual pace of the game. The problem I have is with players who nearly every turn want to examine every possibility. While they may find some enjoyment in this, people aren't playing the game to watch that player go through a dozen permutations. And that player should realize that. Just because they want to think 'thoroughly' about their play doesn't give them the right to do so. This is what I was trying to say above, but much more clearly stated.
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Feb 20, 2021 16:55
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Mayveena posted:In my opinion, games have a tempo. The time you should be taking to play a turn in Splendor is different than the time you could be taking to take a turn in 1830. What's important to me is that the table plays games at a reasonable pace. Yes, some turns will take longer but other turns can be at the usual pace of the game. The problem I have is with players who nearly every turn want to examine every possibility. While they may find some enjoyment in this, people aren't playing the game to watch that player go through a dozen permutations. And that player should realize that. Just because they want to think 'thoroughly' about their play doesn't give them the right to do so. Also a lot of the time AP is just a sign that the person is bad at identifying and dismissing obviously bad plays. I have no doubt there are people whose AP is a manifestation of their ability to actually make masterful decisions based on analyzing 5 turns in the future, but way more often I see it from people checked out who then look over the board and have no idea what to do.
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Feb 20, 2021 17:07
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Didn't get to play Lorenzo Il Magnifico today, but I did get to demo it which led to me discovering this crime against dicemanity That is going to annoy the poo poo out of me  Mayveena posted:In my opinion, games have a tempo. The time you should be taking to play a turn in Splendor is different than the time you could be taking to take a turn in 1830. What's important to me is that the table plays games at a reasonable pace. Yes, some turns will take longer but other turns can be at the usual pace of the game. The problem I have is with players who nearly every turn want to examine every possibility. While they may find some enjoyment in this, people aren't playing the game to watch that player go through a dozen permutations. And that player should realize that. Just because they want to think 'thoroughly' about their play doesn't give them the right to do so. Aye we had a mini discussion to the effect of "We're not having a crack, we're just going to introduce some timers in future games to help speed up the process so we can help teach you to get quicker and so we can get more games in" I don't mind if the initial round of a draft takes a minute or two while we agonise over the cards, but after that things should be a lot quicker. If a draft phase lasts more than 5min something has gone horribly wrong. Also to be fair this person came in 2nd for Steampunk Rally, so there is some method to the madness.
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Feb 20, 2021 17:15
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Mayveena posted:Can someone who listened to NPI's discussion about colonialism in board games give a one paragraph summary? Thanks! The first third of the video is him talking about the struggles of Lithuania and colonialism with his family's personal history there. His main point is that if games today are going to use colonialism as a theme, they need the creator to a.) understand the subject *cough cough Pfister* and b.) add to the conversation in some way (he specifically calls out Puerto Rico, Maracaibo, and Mombasa, mentions Pax Pamir (calls out you-know-who on his essay therein), Endeavor: Age of Sail, Imperial/Twilight Struggle, and brings up Spirit Island in a positive light). He also talks a bit about post-colonial theory and what that could contribute in the future. Bellmaker fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 17:23
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Also help settle a bet. Every time I get A War of Whispers out I have to reiterate to the group which way actions are taken for blank council positions. And every time someone doesn't believe me because they think empty spaces are controlled by agents in the opposite direction. Is this page poorly written, as I have always felt it to be, or can you understand at a glance which way extra actions are taken? Bonus points if you can understand it without referring to the example.  I really really hate the manual for this game, it's the only drawback of an otherwise incredibly unique war game. Correct answer: The player on the right will take all actions of empty council to the left of it. This is why the Chancellor position is so powerful as you can control all 4 spaces if noone else places their agents there. 2 of my players always get it wrong.
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Feb 20, 2021 17:24
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Bellmaker posted:b.) add to the conversation in some way Does he say what kinds of things he expects as far as adding to the conversation? Because I feel like there isn't exactly much that can be said other than "colonialism is bad and this is a game version that is meant for fun and entertainment and is not an accurate representation of how bad colonialism is."
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Feb 20, 2021 17:43
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