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Herstory Begins Now posted:Half the time it's not even at enemies, it's at ostensible allies. Are you endorsing these posts about posting and posters? Because I've got some replies on the topic but I thought it was against the rules and youve got a sheriff star.
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Feb 20, 2021 19:31
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Bifner McDoogle posted:Just going by how Lee Carter has voluntarily elected to present himself online, I'm getting massive Taintrunner vibes from this poo poo tbh. Fortunately RTW repeal is bigger than he is, so his inevitable outing as some sort of misogynist/abuser/sex pest won't put a dent on it if only because absolutely no credible progressive orgqnization wants anything to do with him anymore. This is kind of my take as well. It doesn't indicate Average judgement much less Good judgement. Did Lee actually get drunk at 3 AM and release a huge oppo file on Twitter? Because if that's actually what happened it just isn't the type of judgement or behavior I want to see in any elected official, much less a Governor.
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Feb 20, 2021 19:34
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How are u posted:This is kind of my take as well. It doesn't indicate Average judgement much less Good judgement. I remember at one point during the Kavanaugh hearings he released a bunch of information basically talking about how when he was younger he did some really skeevy things he wasn't proud of and was apparently remorseful for (basically as a counter to Kavanaugh denying he ever did anything wrong or w/e), but I don't know if that's the same as what's being referenced, and I can't find that tweet thread anymore regardless. EDIT: I might even be misremembering when he put it out, it might've been during the Northam Blackface Scandal instead because of the constant avalanche of scandals involving Northam, Fairfax, and the head of the VAGOP Angry_Ed fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 19:41
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How are u posted:This is kind of my take as well. It doesn't indicate Average judgement much less Good judgement. He did. Friendbot was volunteering as a canvasser for him at the time and probably recalls the details better than I do. I know it was in the middle of the 2019 campaign though.
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Feb 20, 2021 19:49
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Not sure I'm clear why anyone would be lobbying to primary Carter (still unsourced) and not someone in a safe district who wasn't as strong RTW repeal.
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Feb 20, 2021 19:53
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axeil posted:He did. quote:In a whiplash-inducing confessional on Twitter, Carter, a Democratic delegate from Prince William County, recently told his 18,000 followers he needed to share details of his past before unidentified foes “try personal smears.” to be fair, it was 10:45 pm 
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Feb 20, 2021 19:54
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So he went on to win? I'm not sure I see the issue here. He got ahead of some things that reasonably could have been dug up. Comparing him to a permabanned pedophile is lovely and mean, even for D&D. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 20:00
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Harold Fjord posted:So he went on to win? yes after his campaign did damage control for him, including someone who posts in this thread and volunteered for him. goon pissing in well, etc.
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Feb 20, 2021 20:01
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Aruan posted:lee carter is a goon in the well. i like lee carter - he has great ideas, fights for things i agree with. but he can't stop pissing in the loving well. its like he posted an e/n thread and asked 'should i keep posting on twitter?' and someone said, no lee, and his response was 'not only am i going to keep posting, im going to get drunk and tweet out all my skeletons!' yea ok I feel you on that
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Feb 20, 2021 20:02
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Harold Fjord posted:So he went on to win? Dumb and unqualified people win elected office all the time. It's kind of a problem!
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Feb 20, 2021 20:03
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How are u posted:Dumb and unqualified people win elected office all the time. It's kind of a problem! Yes but the evidence he's dumb so far was a thing that was portrayed as hurting his chances. Yet he won, and no one has tried to present any evidence of polling drops before this damage control or any evidence that it actually hurt his chances, it's all just "some goon said this once". So it's not clear that thing was dumb, so it's not clear how he's dumb.
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Feb 20, 2021 20:05
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Aruan posted:lee carter is a goon in the well. i like lee carter - he has great ideas, fights for things i agree with. but he can't stop pissing in the loving well. its like he posted an e/n thread and asked 'should i keep posting on twitter?' and someone said, no lee, and his response was 'not only am i going to keep posting, im going to get drunk and tweet out all my skeletons!' this is a fair description of how I feel towards him as well
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Feb 20, 2021 20:06
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Harold Fjord posted:Yes but the evidence he's dumb so far was a thing that was portrayed as hurting his chances. Yet he won, Oh well clearly his chances weren't damaged then (this is not how that works) And this doesn't magically excuse the other acts of self-sabotage.
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Feb 20, 2021 20:07
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Angry_Ed posted:Oh well clearly his chances weren't damaged then (this is not how that works) Ok so you have some sort of evidence that they were? I can't prove a negative here. The assertion was he is dumb because this. Show me where this is dumb beyond your gut political instinct or "some goon claimed credit for fixing it."
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Feb 20, 2021 20:08
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Harold Fjord posted:Ok so you have some sort of evidence that they were? I can't prove a negative here. Actually the onus is on you to prove that his chances weren't hurt since you have mantained Lee Carter Did Nothing Wrong despite people who worked on his campaign telling you that he has indeed done wrong.
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Feb 20, 2021 20:09
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Harold Fjord posted:Yes but the evidence he's dumb so far was a thing that was portrayed as hurting his chances. Yet he won, and no one has tried to present any evidence of polling drops before this damage control or any evidence that it actually hurt his chances, it's all just "some goon said this once". no, the point is that he keeps doing stupid things that alienate the people around him who should be his allies because he can't stop being terminally online. canvassing for people is hard work, canvassing for a democratic socialist in this country is even harder, and when your candidate gets drunk and tweets a bunch of bullshit that makes your job even harder and at a certain point you throw up your hands and go 'gently caress this guy, jesus christ, STOP PISSING IN THE loving WELL, YOU ARE MAKING IT HARDER FOR ME TO RESCUE YOU' - and two years into lee carter this is where we're at in the cycle. on some level i respect his absolute commitment to Never Stop Posting but the price of that has been alienating his natural allies and sinking his legislative agenda. the contrast is with, say, danica roem, who was also was a progressive who won in an upset, and has managed to be very successful in passing her legislative agenda by focusing on constituent outreach, building bridges, and being HYPER local in her focus. thats the other thing about lee carter - he always is framing things in a national context, but who the gently caress cares? you're in the VA house dude Owlspiracy fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 20:09
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Harold Fjord posted:Yes but the evidence he's dumb so far was a thing that was portrayed as hurting his chances. Yet he won, and no one has tried to present any evidence of polling drops before this damage control or any evidence that it actually hurt his chances, it's all just "some goon said this once". So it's not clear that thing was dumb, so it's not clear how he's dumb. I think that getting drunk and shitposting is a disqualifying trait in somebody who wants to hold elected office. That's my personal stance.
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Feb 20, 2021 20:09
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Angry_Ed posted:Actually the onus is on you to prove that his chances weren't hurt I have addressed this. How are u posted:I think that getting drunk and shitposting is a disqualifying trait in somebody who wants to hold elected office. That's my personal stance. Interesting. Who would you vote for if you were in his district? Aruan posted:no, the point is that he keeps doing stupid things that alienate the people around him who should be his allies because he can't stop being terminally online. canvassing for people is hard work, canvassing for a democratic socialist in this country is even harder, and when your candidate gets drunk and tweets a bunch of bullshit that makes your job even harder agenda. What an incredibly lovely and self-centered approach to thinking about this. I'm not saying he's the next AOC, but he's showing a kind of honesty I like in my politicians Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 20:10
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Harold Fjord posted:I have addressed this. I don't live in his district and I don't know who he had to fight in the primary for his race. If I had been put into a position between voting for Lee and voting for a Republican I would have voted for Lee. If I lived in his district right now I'd certainly be supporting a [edit: Progressive] primary challenger, and would work to kick him to the curb.
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Feb 20, 2021 20:12
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Harold Fjord posted:I have addressed this. i don't mean to be a dick, but uh, have you ever interacted with people? lee carter is giving me a million flashbacks of people i know who are great people with great ideas but are also unpleasant to be around because they're insufferable. almost everyone knows the 2007 militant atheist: someone who is right, but is also 'right' in the wrongest loving way possible, because they just kind of suck. i am frustrated with lee and i am calling him out because i feel like he squandered an opportunity to help push va's legislature to the left, and in doing so has wasted the time of a lot of people (including myself) who donated to him and supported him. i don't know if he's hopelessly naive, or what, but my patience with stupid stunts pulled by a part time va house legislature - literally the lowest stakes possible in va state offices - ended a long time ago.
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Feb 20, 2021 20:13
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Harold Fjord posted:I'm not saying he's the next AOC, but he's showing a kind of honesty I like in my politicians Yeah, you have been making it very clear that you like him because of his online posting style. I suspect, if Lee really has been burning bridges to the extent that VA activists in this very thread have been telling us he has, that he's going to lose office because of it.
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Feb 20, 2021 20:15
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How are u posted:Yeah, you have been making it very clear that you like him because of his online posting style. I suspect, if Lee really has been burning bridges to the extent that VA activists in this very thread have been telling us he has, that he's going to lose office because of it. its hard to know what will happen in the next cycle. in 2019 his primary challenge was literally a republican who switched parties, and he ended up winning a close-ish race in which a whopping 20,000 people voted, so the stakes are very small. at the end of the day if he's on the ballot then he's probably gonna get tepid support, but we'll see. i think what's more likely is that if the democratic margin expands in '21 he just gets shunted off and ignored.
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Feb 20, 2021 20:18
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I like him because of his politics. His online posting style seems fine, not AOC, but not loving Taintrunner either. What acts of self sabatoge, ed. Just endless new assertions without evidence. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 20:29
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Aruan posted:the contrast is with, say, danica roem, who was also was a progressive who won in an upset, and has managed to be very successful in passing her legislative agenda by focusing on constituent outreach, building bridges, and being HYPER local in her focus. In her case, occasionally literal bridges!
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Feb 20, 2021 20:30
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Harold Fjord posted:I like him because of his politics. His online posting style seems fine, not AOC, but not loving Taintrunner either. I would say blowing up your own right to work bill just so you blame others on its failure is an act of self-sabotage. I would say alienating the very same DSA chapter that helped you get elected twice would be an act of self-sabotage. Why would I have to repost what has already been posted just because you didn't bother to read it and/or are arguing in bad faith
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Feb 20, 2021 20:33
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Angry_Ed posted:I would say blowing up your own right to work bill just so you blame others on its failure is an act of self-sabotage. I would say alienating the very same DSA chapter that helped you get elected twice would be an act of self-sabotage. Why would I have to repost what has already been posted just because you didn't bother to read it and/or are arguing in bad faith Because no one has really demonstrated any of the things they are saying. The only source is memories of old posts from one goon. I'm reading it all this is 100% good faith. Your inability to understand disagreement breaks all the rules but somehow you can endlessly psychoanalyze me itt. Go gently caress yourselves. It's not clear the bill would have passed. It may not have been the smartest move, but he traded a shot to roll a die with some percent chance and forced the first actual vote on it in years. I'll take any sources you have on the odds of it passing after horsetrading, but if Lee thought they were 1/8, I totally see doing what he did. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 20:38
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Harold Fjord posted:Because no one has really demonstrated any of the things they are saying. The only source is memories of old posts from one goon. I'm reading it all this is 100% good faith. Your inability to understand disagreement breaks all the rules but somehow you can endlessly psychoanalyze me itt. Go gently caress yourselves. they. didn't. vote. on. the. bill. he traded the bill for a 0% chance of forcing a floor vote. 0%. its a purely performative measure that, as a consequence, also killed the bill. i know that it was in bad faith because his justification was the fact that the bill had failed for 3 years, when 2 of those years the legislature was controlled by republicans.
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Feb 20, 2021 20:42
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Aruan posted:they. didn't. vote. on. the. bill. He traded a 12% shot of maybe getting the bill and now we have a bunch of politicians to push harder or primary. You can't predict the future except that this definitely would have passed if not for Lee Carter
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Feb 20, 2021 20:43
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Harold Fjord posted:He traded a 12% shot of maybe getting the bill and now we have a bunch of politicians to push harder or primary. Just endless new assertions without evidence.
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Feb 20, 2021 20:44
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Harold Fjord posted:He traded a 12% shot of maybe getting the bill and now we have a bunch of politicians to push harder or primary. no, there was no chance that his measure to directly introduce the bill, skipping committee deliberation, would work. 0%. the moment he pulled the stunt the bill was dead. do you understand the bill was never voted for, and that the vote that carter lost was to directly introduce the bill, not the actual vote? in fact, carters attempt was killed by one of his own co-sponsors
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Feb 20, 2021 20:45
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Quorum posted:In her case, occasionally literal bridges! it seems like Roem is doing basically everything right, in contrast with Lee, to win a future national seat on a progressive platform i definitely don't know enough about Virginia politics to know what's the next step for her and if there's any US Congressional seats she can plausibly run for without burning all her bridges (looks like she's probably in Wexton's district?), but i hope she can soon
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Feb 20, 2021 20:50
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I'm saying if he thought the actual odds of it getting passed and not bottled up yet again were low, based maybe on actual interactions with other politicians that, as you have emphasized, are very important, I can see doing what he did. RTW is a big deal for bosses because it gives them near-total power. Even with other pro-labor things passing this might be a tougher one. Minimum wage goes up and they can just fire as they think is needed to deal. Angry_Ed posted:Just endless new assertions without evidence. Quit trying to shift the burden of proof on me to negate assertions. It's not a thing. I can't prove to someone that aliens never landed but I can ask if they have evidence and question its quality. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 20:51
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Harold Fjord posted:I'm saying if he thought the actual odds of it getting passed and not bottled up yet again were low, based maybe on actual interactions with other politicians that, as you have emphasized, are very important, I can see doing what he did. The burden of proof is on you to prove that this bill was doomed from the start and thus Lee Did Nothing Wrong in killing it, to say nothing of the other things he's done which have not helped his case and/or standing even amongst his staunchest allies. But all you offer is "well I like the fact that he shitposts" as if that's any basis for good governance. You're talking to people who have supported him in campaigns and live in the state telling you that he has screwed up and you just keep going "where's the proof" even after proof has been provided.
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Feb 20, 2021 21:03
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Angry_Ed posted:The burden of proof is on you to prove that this bill was doomed from the start and thus Lee Did Nothing Wrong in killing it, to say nothing of the other things he's done which have not helped his case and/or standing even amongst his staunchest allies. But all you offer is "well I like the fact that he shitposts" as if that's any basis for good governance. You're talking to people who have supported him in campaigns and live in the state telling you that he has screwed up and you just keep going "where's the proof" even after proof has been provided. Two years being bottled up and the guy pushing it made the decision to force a vote that you say was guaranteed to kill it are why I think they might have been low. But I wasn't claiming to be able to prove that or asserting it as a fact., I asserted that him thinking so is a reasonable explanation for his actions beyond "he's a big dumb idiot" The margin of Dems who didn't vote for the procedural motion also suggests to me that there's a lot of holdouts Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 21:06
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Publishing self-oppo seems fine, it can be better to get ahead of it than for it to come out and make you look like you were hiding something. Whomst among us doesn't have gigs of nudes out there on the phones of our hook-up partners after all. Getting drunk and doing it on twitter though seems...mmm...non-standard. Not worse than voting for RTW so let's keep this in perspective, but all else being equal it's better to ya know not do it that way... E: and how high is the standard of professionalism to be a Virginia governor anyway, the current guy has blackface photos, and he admitted it was him because the alternative "ok I was the other guy in the KKK outfit" would have been even worse and he thought moonwalking at a press conference might have been a good response to that scandal so ya know VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 21:10
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VitalSigns posted:Publishing self-oppo seems fine, it can be better to get ahead of it than for it to come out and make you look like you were hiding something. Whomst among us doesn't have gigs of nudes out there on the phones of our hook-up partners after all. A, many of us likely don't have gigs of nudes out there. gently caress I know alot of people that think taking pics of themselves is abhorrent because of the chance of it getting leaked. Your personal thing is not everyone's. B, you completely forget the other scandal that happened when the lt governor had some pretty significant issues come out that basically neutered him. And he tripled down much like lee has repeatedly including hiring lawyers for. Northram also looked at the polls and his constituents and saw that they were largely ok with him because he said sorry and talked about it admitting what happened and what he planned to do moving forward. There was significant risk that if worst case happened the gop would have been in charge. But that apperently is forgotten or ignored by people here because dems bad. I repeat my assertion from before. A bunch of people that know nothing about a state and local politics going purity matters more then substance because we need lefter then thou candidates who actually may not know what they are doing. Lee carter has shown he's an idiot that would rather do own goals on his allies then work to advance his agenda in an actual productive manner is not someone that will get far. I'd take 100 danica roems over lee. That woman is smart and gets poo poo done.
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Feb 21, 2021 00:01
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Angry_Ed posted:The burden of proof is on you to prove that this bill was doomed from the start and thus Lee Did Nothing Wrong in killing it, to say nothing of the other things he's done which have not helped his case and/or standing even amongst his staunchest allies. But all you offer is "well I like the fact that he shitposts" as if that's any basis for good governance. You're talking to people who have supported him in campaigns and live in the state telling you that he has screwed up and you just keep going "where's the proof" even after proof has been provided. You're the ones repeatedly claiming that Lee Carter single-handedly tanked the bill. For that to be the case then, there is a positive assertion that but-for Lee Carter's actions in making the procedural motion the bill would have, at a minimum, been called for a vote to make it out of committee and to the floor. Considering that the prior year, when Democrats were also in control, the bill didn't get a committee vote I am going to believe that the same result was going to happen this year, too. Obviously neither party is going to be able to prove anything because we can't go and see the alternate timelines where Lee didn't make the motion. But what we do have we can objectively look at: 1. Democrats, in the absence of making the procedural motion Lee Carter made, have failed to bring the bill to a vote to leave committee. 2. Democrats, when the procedural motion is made, vote against letting the bill go to the floor for a vote. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.
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Feb 21, 2021 00:43
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The way that the two sides of this conversation seem to be "I am upset that Lee Carter made it so Right To Work Repeal is off the table for the entire year," and "I am pleased that Lee Carter gave me new and exciting reasons to hate Democrats," is certainly providing some interesting insight into the pulse of D&D's community.
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Feb 21, 2021 01:13
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Sanguinia posted:The way that the two sides of this conversation seem to be "I am upset that Lee Carter made it so Right To Work Repeal is off the table for the entire year," and "I am pleased that Lee Carter gave me new and exciting reasons to hate Democrats," is certainly providing some interesting insight into the pulse of D&D's community. at the end its about framing. if you, for example, don't live in va and just assume that all va democrats are bad therefore good things can't happen, lee carter is righteously crusading against bad people. on the other hand, if you live in va, recognize that local political alignment at these low levels is more fluid, and take notice of the many extremely progressive things coming out - including other labor rights reforms, increasing the minimum wage, legalizing marijuana, ending the death penalty, substantial criminal justice reform, etc. etc., the situation becomes more complicated, and it seems quite disappointing that the person most associated with repealing RTW acts like an SA poster who can't stop tweeting. many of us hoped that lee carter would be part of a new wave of younger that could push the caucus left on their particular issues - for lee carter it's labor rights - and where others have been successful he's failed. the success of the other democrats, and lee's apparent one man crusade against the rest of the caucus, suggest to me that a significant portion of the blame rests with his approach. Owlspiracy fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Feb 21, 2021 |
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Feb 21, 2021 01:17
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UCS Hellmaker posted:A, many of us likely don't have gigs of nudes out there. gently caress I know alot of people that think taking pics of themselves is abhorrent because of the chance of it getting leaked. Your personal thing is not everyone's. UCS Hellmaker posted:B, you completely forget the other scandal that happened when the lt governor had some pretty significant issues come out that basically neutered him. And he tripled down much like lee has repeatedly including hiring lawyers for. Northram also looked at the polls and his constituents and saw that they were largely ok with him because he said sorry and talked about it admitting what happened and what he planned to do moving forward. There was significant risk that if worst case happened the gop would have been in charge. But that apperently is forgotten or ignored by people here because dems bad. I didn't forget the Lt Gov, I just didn't think it was necessary to hammer my point home even further, but since you bring it up...This only seems to reinforce my point that the gubernatorial standards of professionalism don't seem that high. Blackface, your buddy in a KKK outfit, almost moonwalking to deflect from blackface, sexual assault, apparently fine so is being drunk on twitter really beyond the pale. Eh. It's not great but you've had worse. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Feb 21, 2021 |
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Feb 21, 2021 01:43
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